Should killers actually kill?
This post is not a request for an absurd killer nerf. This post is a merely a query about the status of the community and the game's mechanics and point systems.
As a person who used to watch "He who shall not be named" and a person who has played my fair share of the killer role, I am no stranger to how toxic and bitter the community can be. This is especially true for survivors who can use strength in numbers to verbally (textually?) harass players. Knowing this, I've begun mass sparing survivors that aren't deliberately trolling me, but given the phrase "don't feed the trolls" I may even begin sparing them.
The reason I'm sparing survivors is due to the fact that when most of the survivors escape it means that they are more satisfied. If they are more satisfied with the outcome, then they will be less toxic correct?
I look at it this way: if a survivor escapes they get 5000 BP (+2000 BP if they get the hatch) As a killer I get 2500 BP for killing everyone. Assuming that I would be killing everyone by hooks (moris don't grow on trees.) I would already get 6000 BP from hooking everyone. If I don't kill everyone and only go to the second hook I can gain 4000 BP instead with the bonus of reduced post-game toxicity in most cases. In addition to the reduced toxicity chance, I also can gain more BP through the other three categories (Brutality/Deviousness/Hunting) With just 4 extra attacks I can reach the same BP as if I had just killed everyone (admittedly the total is in two categories but points are points!). With 5 more attacks after that, I can get the same result if I had just killed everyone. So as long as I can get 9 more attacks in after 2 hooks on each survivor I will have essentially the same BP as if I had killed them outright. As a person who mains Huntress this is not terribly challenging for me so I guess my question is why would I kill?
From my experience, not brutally murdering everyone, in general, makes everyone a little happier as the survivors don't get salty and you still get the points. All in all, it just seems like killing folks isn't worth it. Granted I run the risk of being gen-rushed if I fail to keep map pressure up. However, since I run Whispers I am almost always applying pressure to someone.
For all of the people who will just shout that the killer should always kill I'd like to point out that by not sacrificing the survivors I'm technically putting them through more pain and suffering as I deny them the sweet release of death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rhKoxicQLg
What are your thoughts folks?
Comments
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Play the game how you want, if "putting them through more pain and suffering as I deny them the sweet release of death." is what you like then so be it.
For me personally, nothing matters but the kill. I am a killer and that is my goal. Whether I got lots of points or barely any is completely and utterly irrelevant to me. That said, I'm not a dick that face camps but you get my point.
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As @Blueberry said, play the game as you would like to play it.
That said, despite the latest killer they designed, the dev's specifically state the killer objective: "The Killer’s main objective is to stop the Survivors. This is done by catching them and hanging them from one of the Meat Hooks found in the level. Killers can not die, but will fail if the Survivors manage to escape."
It's a competitive game, not a cooperative one. Your objectives as the killer are exactly opposite those of the survivors. The fun, when I'm playing survivor, is trying to escape based on the environment, killer, RNG and our respective skill. Farming games aren't fun. The killer letting me escape, rather than giving me a challenge, isn't fun. It's a horror game, and when I'm survivor, I should be afraid.
Otherwise it's like picking up a Madden game to discover you're playing Shoots and Ladders. Or ordering Mortal Kombat and being shipped a Tickle Me Elmo. They're fine products, I'm sure, but it's not what you wanted when you picked up the game.
This is why I get so frustrated with the Dev's argument that there should only be 2 or 3 viable killers out of the 14 they designed. A killer who can't, or doesn't, kill is the antithesis of their role in a horror game.
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@Crizpen said:
As @Blueberry said, play the game as you would like to play it.That said, despite the latest killer they designed, the dev's specifically state the killer objective: "The Killer’s main objective is to stop the Survivors. This is done by catching them and hanging them from one of the Meat Hooks found in the level. Killers can not die, but will fail if the Survivors manage to escape."
It's a competitive game, not a cooperative one. Your objectives as the killer are exactly opposite those of the survivors. The fun, when I'm playing survivor, is trying to escape based on the environment, killer, RNG and our respective skill. Farming games aren't fun. The killer letting me escape, rather than giving me a challenge, isn't fun. It's a horror game, and when I'm survivor, I should be afraid.
Otherwise it's like picking up a Madden game to discover you're playing Shoots and Ladders. Or ordering Mortal Kombat and being shipped a Tickle Me Elmo. They're fine products, I'm sure, but it's not what you wanted when you picked up the game.
This is why I get so frustrated with the Dev's argument that there should only be 2 or 3 viable killers out of the 14 they designed. A killer who can't, or doesn't, kill is the antithesis of their role in a horror game.
Well said. Instead of making killers that kill, they are trying to change what constitutes "winning" so EVERYONE'S a WINNER. This is flawed logic and an issue that's quite rampant these days.
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Its funny you made this post. In the survivor section under DS nerf we are right now also discussing alternative viable and fun playstyles for the killer. If you want some inspiration just check it out.
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I agree with Blueberry's and Crizpen's posts. Killers are the tools of The Entity and have one objective only. There's a reason they're not called taggers, point-farmers, entertainers or delayers.
This is an M rated horror game. I don't think there should be room for all this "every kid should get a medal or else they'll throw a tantrum". Immature kids shouldn't be playing this, to begin with.
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because you would get eVEN moRE points ggez
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To be honest, I used to feel the dead opposite for the same reasons. However, I'd always try to play in a non-toxic manner, and I prioritized getting BBQ stacks over camping one person out.
Now, after the balance changes and the terrible bugs, I try to play killer more like the way you do, but for different reasons. My spirit is broken. I just want blood points and nothing else, so I'm fine with getting 4 BBQ stacks and just letting the survivors get whatever blood points they want. I just cannot be bothered to stress about getting a 4k in a game that doesn't take balance seriously.
I might be sounding like a pompous prick of a killer main, but I just can't care much anymore. Maybe I'm just bored with the game, but I'm not gonna lie, I didn't feel this way last patch.0 -
Honestly. Just as you said.. points are points.
I'm playing mainly for the Bloodpoints and i usually do all the stuff you do, to get as much of them as possible. But killing them, will grant me.. even more bloodpoints. And even if i would spare them.. the next Killer they meet, wont and they will be just as toxic. Might aswell just kill them myself, it wont change a thing. They hare me one way or another.1 -
Let’s just turn the killer into another survivor so everyone can win.3
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I have a taste for letting people live... so long as I'm getting stuff done. Especially thanks to the Halloween event. "Happy Halloween! gtfo and enjoy those blood points." The warm fuzzies are nice.
Of course they never do just leave.
I suspect winter event will be much the same if I don't have to sacrifice. I'll get what I need, and let people go so they get what they need.
The only time I'm bothered by people escaping is if I don't feel like I got a fair amount of blood points/event goal, and that means I did not get to do much.
If they managed to basically run circles around me, and take advantage of crap I actually want them to just leave. Of course they never do.
I like multiple chases, multiple hooks, long matches.
A good action packed 15 minutes or more?
If a survivor is talented, especially above the rest, I don't mind them getting the hatch.
I don't mind going with the flow overall, though. I'm not 4k crazy, but if I run into someone enough, then I just do, and try to get them hooked... unless they're pro distractions, then I want to avoid them. They're good at running people around, and they want you to take the bait.0 -
I never willl let a survivour off unless its a
3 v 1 which means a survivour gets a free hatch or a 2 v 1 in which case do the gens and leave. Other then those situations i will be killing.
Bad unhooks get punished because otherwise survivours will never learn how to make proper saves. So if i dont punish survivours they will get used to unhooking close to the killer screwing my survivour games if i decide to play survivour later on.
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I don't think letting Survivors go makes them less Toxic, in all the cases I have seen it makes them more so. A lot of times when a Survivor feels that they are winning they troll the killer more, wait at the exit and constantly leap over a pallet shouting ''I'M OVER HERE HA HA!'' Or running around in a circle at the exit because they know they won and the Killer can't get them, sometimes they do and I laugh at them but mostly they get away.
Of course, not all Survivors are like this but when someone is dominating someone else they feel empowered and cocky and therefore troll. I almost got wrapped up in one time and I was like no thank you and left, even the most respectful of players can get sucked into it.
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I got called a "sucker" today, for not camping the hook after the doors were open.
So, you know... I guess that's what they think I should be doing.
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@HatCreature said:
I don't think letting Survivors go makes them less Toxic, in all the cases I have seen it makes them more so. A lot of times when a Survivor feels that they are winning they troll the killer more, wait at the exit and constantly leap over a pallet shouting ''I'M OVER HERE HA HA!'' Or running around in a circle at the exit because they know they won and the Killer can't get them, sometimes they do and I laugh at them but mostly they get away.Of course, not all Survivors are like this but when someone is dominating someone else they feel empowered and cocky and therefore troll. I almost got wrapped up in one time and I was like no thank you and left, even the most respectful of players can get sucked into it.
This. In my experience, no matter how merciful or considerate you are, survivors are whiney and ungrateful and i find it extremely unsatisfying to throw a game for worthless points. I play a Killer to Kill, and if i get the chance to send you to the Entity...you dead bruh.
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me killah
me killz2 -
I play "bad" or "sub optimal" killers to De-pip because I like low to mid range games, because they are more fun and less frustrating than try hard SWF garbage. I play my main strong killers not to get too low and stay in that mid range bracket. So Im having fun losing, but not throwing the match, and having fun 3-4king when im done messing around.
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@Peasant said:
What are your thoughts folks?
I personally enjoy torturing survivors and letting at least 1 live, while killing the other 3. Thats just my style. I don't enjoy seeing a 4k by my own hands if I'm on pig. But when I'm playing other killers I just kinda go no mercy mode. Most the other killers don't entertain me the same way pig does.
Sometimes though, I can go into a game, and try to get people to survive, but mid match something just kicks in and you oops and kill too many. Or you try something dramatic, like where I down 4 survivors with masks on, and instead of picking one up and forcing them to do 1 gen and start all the traps, I oopsed and just hooked everyone....Its really hard to not kill people in this game, especially with the annoying sounds the survivors make. Or when they scream after a hook and I slash them, they think I'm BMing them but in reality I'm just trying to shut them up from all that screaming so I can hear other survivors nearby.
But if you wanna show mercy, make sure its to only 1. Survivors feel hopeful if they survive along with someone else, but if you kill all but one, the ones who lives becomes more humble. And maybe in a future game you see them, and its 1 less toxic bastard around. But make sure you get the right person....don't give a chance to live to the jake who's been camping hooks and pulling his team mates off without even trying to risk himself to guard them, no heals, no nothing just farming hook BP. Kill this ######### first! Or if you catch a survivor purposefully sandbag his team mates. Or if you catch a guy using emotes to gain sympathy, murder his ass.....
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Killers play the role to kill with no rules and will rage upon lost of that kill as any killer does. Survivors will whine and cry that didn't let them live because thats what any survivor does. I think in general we are all playing our roles very immersively
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Yes, they should.
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I think you should play the game however you want as long as you have fun, even tho i think that the game should revolve around sacrificing people for the killer (wich isn't the case currently, i get alot of game where i pip without killing anyone, emblem system is really weird imo).
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Different gaming experiences, I guess.
I have had plenty of instances where I've played as "nicely and fair' as possible, and still managed to get flamed in post game chat.
Go hard and get the 4k? "Sweaty tryhard"
Play more casually? "LOL TRASHCAN"
Toxic nerds are gong to be toxic nerds regardless. Haven't noticed a huge reduction in bad behavior based on how "nice" I am.
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The game isnt a haunted house kind of game that rewards you for scaring people, or being "creative" before killing. The goal of the Killer is to kill, they aren't "spookers," or "entertainers." If this isn't supposed to be the case, then the terminology and goals of the game need to be changed. I should get points for making the avatar scream and not die. I should get points every time I force a survivor in to hiding. There shouldn't be hooks.. heck there shouldn't be weapons! It should just be a haunted house of jump-scares.
Should the killer kill? YES! Its in the job description!
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A killer is supposed to kill. They aren’t called “survivor helpers.”
That being said, however, I am not completely heartless. My play style is dictated by the actual survivors. I don’t tunnel and I do not camp unless survivors goad me into it. If it’s a well played game and I get one or two, I am content. I just enjoy smacking people with the wraith. If I get kills, great, if not, whatever. I generally let the 4th survivor get the hatch or get out if I so choose, as I will not do a hatch standoff as I have better things to do then stand on a hatch for 30 minutes.
If I really care I will run my hag and do my best to run them into the ground, but I have more fun playing mid tier killers.2 -
I usually hook everyone twice and then just let them on the ground if I catch them outpositioned. I enjoy more when everyone is having fun in the game, rather than tunnel and going for 4k. I also played a lot of survivor lately and most of the killers are no fun at all (boosted 4k apes), so someone needs to make a balance and make them have enjoyable games, otherwise they would be even more toxic
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@Peasant said:
This post is not a request for an absurd killer nerf. This post is a merely a query about the status of the community and the game's mechanics and point systems.As a person who used to watch "He who shall not be named" and a person who has played my fair share of the killer role, I am no stranger to how toxic and bitter the community can be. This is especially true for survivors who can use strength in numbers to verbally (textually?) harass players. Knowing this, I've begun mass sparing survivors that aren't deliberately trolling me, but given the phrase "don't feed the trolls" I may even begin sparing them.
The reason I'm sparing survivors is due to the fact that when most of the survivors escape it means that they are more satisfied. If they are more satisfied with the outcome, then they will be less toxic correct?
I look at it this way: if a survivor escapes they get 5000 BP (+2000 BP if they get the hatch) As a killer I get 2500 BP for killing everyone. Assuming that I would be killing everyone by hooks (moris don't grow on trees.) I would already get 6000 BP from hooking everyone. If I don't kill everyone and only go to the second hook I can gain 4000 BP instead with the bonus of reduced post-game toxicity in most cases. In addition to the reduced toxicity chance, I also can gain more BP through the other three categories (Brutality/Deviousness/Hunting) With just 4 extra attacks I can reach the same BP as if I had just killed everyone (admittedly the total is in two categories but points are points!). With 5 more attacks after that, I can get the same result if I had just killed everyone. So as long as I can get 9 more attacks in after 2 hooks on each survivor I will have essentially the same BP as if I had killed them outright. As a person who mains Huntress this is not terribly challenging for me so I guess my question is why would I kill?
From my experience, not brutally murdering everyone, in general, makes everyone a little happier as the survivors don't get salty and you still get the points. All in all, it just seems like killing folks isn't worth it. Granted I run the risk of being gen-rushed if I fail to keep map pressure up. However, since I run Whispers I am almost always applying pressure to someone.
For all of the people who will just shout that the killer should always kill I'd like to point out that by not sacrificing the survivors I'm technically putting them through more pain and suffering as I deny them the sweet release of death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rhKoxicQLgWhat are your thoughts folks?
I don't know what game you are playing but for me toxic survivors are toxic whether they live or die. If they die, I'm a camper/trash killer/tryhard. If they live, the game was ez/I'm a trash killer/git gud/etc. You cannot win with toxic survivors. They'll be toxic no matter what happens because their lives are sad. Note: I am only talking about toxic survivors, not all survivors. If you talk ######### to every killer after a match, I'm talking about you.
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@scorpio
"I don't know what game you are playing but for me toxic survivors are toxic whether they live or die. If they die, I'm a camper/trash killer/tryhard. If they live, the game was ez/I'm a trash killer/git gud/etc. You cannot win with toxic survivors. They'll be toxic no matter what happens because their lives are sad. Note: I am only talking about toxic survivors, not all survivors. If you talk ######### to every killer after a match, I'm talking about you."
Only saving grace if being on console is I don't have to read any post game chat. Though that doesn't stop people from teabagging during the match. Had at least 2 tonight that did it on,pallet stuns or if I JUST barely missed a hit.
But yeah, unsportsmanlike players are going to be toxic in some way or another. I played this game as Survivor way before I took thr plunge to Killer and play both about 70/30 or 80/20 split.
But for those games as Survivor the only "toxicity" Ive seen is when a Killer repeatedly smacks someone on Hook, mostly seems to be when they farmed a Teammate or made a mistake: potato, missed Hatch or the alternative, when someone was toxic. Ive had no problems Hooking a toxic egotistical chump and making sure they stay there.
I only spare Survivors if a game went really badly for them (mostly when it's a 2 DC game early on...not if the game's been played and then DC at the end) or if it's a mutual farm game (rarely happens on console)0 -
I'm pretty much the same way, I very rarely actually go for kills and generally have more fun by just making things "difficult" for the survivors.
jump scares, slugging, traps, harassment, but all in good fun.
I have more fun if I know the others are having fun too.
however, if someone is gonna be toxic, clicking flashlights and teabagging... I'm gonna torture them a bit extra. slugging and camping, sacrifice, dribble till they're free and put them down again to watch them bleedout... but that's really rare, once they see I'm letting people go, those toxic behaviors usually disappear too.
I also do this because, contrary to what most will say, I feel like Killer is way easier than survivor and I want people to enjoy playing survivor too. need survivors just as much as we do killers.0
