Something Has To Be Done About Bubba's Ability To Prevent Unhooks
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you can outplay it. Just take lightborn. Now you outplayed it. Same way as "there is outplay for bubba".
No there is no real outplay mechanism. Bubba can screw up real bad (so can survivors by getting bad flash timing on lockers), or he will camp that person to death
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I’m honoured when being facecamped by a bubba (being hit on hook a bonus) but yeah somewhat agree that all killers powers should be limited or not available around the radius of hooked survivor. Artist and dredge have that limitation so why not others?
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Lightborn is not outplaying because you don't know if you will need it during a match. You can outplay a Bubba mid-match regardless of perks.
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You cannot seriously be arguing this in good faith.
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That's how I feel about the "nothing an be done about bubba" people.
I've literally had a friend look at Bubba, enter a staring content, and then I walk up right behind the unhook and save. It is possible, it's not THAT hard, and to me "bad faith" are the people that automatically discount the idea. "Only against a stupid Bubba, maybe". Or "Yeah, but not in solo queue where everyone is dumb".
THOSE are bad faith arguments.
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They're realistic arguments.
Nobody will do that for you in Solo Q.
Not every Bubba is going to be silly enough to let that happen.
If the counter-play to something relies on SWF and hoping a Killer plays along, that's not acceptable counter-play as it isn't accessible to most people.
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I wouldn't mind it changed. But it's a free 2 man escape if a bubba is face camping. Its not a killer win...
Hopefully these players get tired soon and I don't experience it often.
I can see it as a vent option in case the nurse gets nerfed to the ground :') but tbf i don't give a **** about both for now.
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1, it's not free by a very long shot. Changing it to 1 or 0 out is very simple - just get one during your NOED + NWO. And this still assumes optimal play from survivor side
2, 2 out is not win or lost. It's a draw - and that is one of the worse results such a bubba can get
So the counterplay is hoping bubba screws up. Looking at hook is so damn easy and still some bubbas fail in this regard. On the other hand missing that tiny time-window when flash save works is more probable then that. Overall locker saves were more fair then bubba camping basement (even if they were very unfair)
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How are locker saves more fair when they were LITERALLY unstoppable?
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The same way as bubba. If he does not get distracted for 0 reason, it's impossible to unhook against him. If survivors don't miss timing, it's impossible to not get flash saved. Exactly. The. Same. Thing
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Not exactly the same thing. Not even close. Bubba camping is not the same thing as a FIXED ANIMATION. Your use of the word "impossible" is factually wrong. There are plenty of videos out there of Bubba campers getting outplayed.
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Apparently saying that something was rude, despite there being no further issue between myself and the person I reacted to, was offensive even to get edited by a mod, so I'm hereby deleting the whole response :)
Post edited by Phantom_ on1 -
There are many videos where survivors did not get the timing right. Where is the difference? I still don't get it.
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On facevalue you are right, that was incredible rude and useless, but as OP and myself engage quite often on the forums and agree on quite some topics and the skill issue comment is a sort of fatalistic running joke here, I bet that OP got the joke without me putting "/s" front of my post.
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The difference is that with the locker example, there's only play on ONE SIDE: the dude with the flashlight.
Mindgaming a hook save with a camping Bubba involves both sides actively making moves and decisions.
THAT is the difference.
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No it does not. Survivors can do things, but if bubba does not do bad (watching outside of his hook, survivor missing timing), then there is exactly nothing you can do.
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Ah okay, then that's my bad! Have a good one ^^
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Draw to who ? If the gates are opened and someone escape it is an happy ending for survivors :') what else do you want ? A 4 man escape ? Well you got to deserve that. Same as a 4k. Tunneling or camping can't give you 4k. Mindlessly doing 5 gens doesn't give a 4 man escape as well. You get caught = gitgud
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I did :)
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1 out means survivors won? Then all I say 1K is killer's win and devs have to adjust balance so that average kill rate is 12,5% to reflect this. Then GIT GUT for you!
And in fact 1K being killer's win is only logical. You would not call it you won the trial if you or any of your friends died in a process. So new kill rate for balance 0.5 per game on average
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I have to take a break from reading this thread, but I want to commend you on how well you're handling yourself. You're sticking to the topic and not responding to petulance with petulance.
Of course, since I'm stopping here, I'm not sure what future (past? Back to the Future?) Pulsar has said lol You might've lost your temper and gone off on someone. But from what I've read so far, I just want to commend you. If I were a guy and I had a hat, I'd tip it to you. So best I can offer is a "Good day, sir."
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Thanks Bro, that's very appreciated <3
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Do you understand what you just said? You are annoyed that you can't stop Bubba *regardless of how he plays* ?
That's not counterplay. You just want to be able to stop him so there's nothing he can do about it.
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No. Bubba that knows what to do gives precisely absolutely and literally 0 possibilities for survivor.
For newer bubbas, you can try to make him go overheat. You can distract him. You can make him chase you and hit something. But there is precisely nothing you can do to bubba, that is not new and wants to camp that survivor. 0% chance for success.
And if your next argument is that so it's not easy - then so is getting good timing on locker save.
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A person that plays PERFECTLY should get the win every time. That's the same reasoning we use for everything. That's what playing correctly means.
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So write that to devs so locker saves will remain in the game....
No it's not about doing something dificult. It's about staying on single spot and ignoring everything until you don't. Why is 1 thing fair and anothet not? I will tell you why. Because one of the thing helps survivors and that is obviously forbidden. Only killers are allowed to have unfairly easy things going for them
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Cool
This doesnt help the person being camped
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Yes, yes. The devs clearly hate Survivors. That is why flashlight saves were just buffed.
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Buff? I don't see any buff. All I see is adjustment. Remove locker saves (even legit ones not just 2 people with flashlight waiting in lockers next to each other) for adding time-window for less experienced players. That's adjustment. Or nerf-buff if you really want.
Also did you notice silent removal of a lot (and I don't mean 1 or 2) of pallets in eerie of crows? So clearly devs do not prefer killers at this point. /s
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They literally increased the window of opportunity to perform normal flashlight saves. They are super easy now, barely an inconvenience.
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But that is exactly what it does, try looking the perks up.
Also as i said, you are not entitled to an escape, the optimal match will be 2dead and 2escapes.
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Reread. Nerfbuff. Adjustment
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so why are killers entitled to a kill? why the double standard?
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
It's a buff. It WAS harder to do. Now it is EASIER to do. That's a buff.
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If you read what i actually said, 2k and 2e is a draw and the optimal game.
Whats double standard about a draw exactly?
It sounds more like self entitlement to a 4 escape on your part really.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
You mean to say locker saves will still work? Because I read they will work no longer. So again. What buff? I see only adjustment
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To me it looks like the first quote says " "normal" flashlight saves " or something like that.
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It may be a draw when looking at it from a wide angle
But if you really think about it, theres also a person for each Survivor. There is nothing fair for that one person being facecamped to death by a killer like Bubba where theres basically no chance of getting off that hook.
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if you want fair, i can suggest games like CoD.
The killers job is to klll you by all means.
I still dont understand whats the double standard in a draw?
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And its a games job to be enjoyable, thats what people play games for
There are plenty of ways to make a game still feel fair while not hampering the viability and enjoyment of something
also the double standard isnt about a 2k 2e being fair/unfair. Its a killer who feels as if their entitled to a kill just because they got a single down, when in reality it should only be 1/3 of it.
Its the equivalent of Survivors basically getting a free escape the moment the exit gates are powered if they still had their DS and Unbreakable up. As a killer did your job correctly and yet youre getting robbed with literally no option other than watching the Survivor slowly crawl out. But thats not a thing anymore. But Survivors having to watch a Bubba stare at them on the hook knowing they cant do a damn thing about it is still very much present
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I answered this 2 pages ago in this very thread.
Survivors can do the exact same, i have seen swfs with 4x sabo, 4x flashies, 4x boil over. where the killer can not get a hook, no matter how well they play. Should sabo, flashlights and boil over be removed too? because that is just as unfair.
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Did you not read the patch notes that buffed actual, normal, flashlight saves?
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i knew youd pull the whataboutism card
I dont think these are fine either
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No. I did not. I saw 2 posts that made 2 adjustments. 1, locker save for safety window 2, larger safety window for server side validation (meaning the time-window is effectively same). So again. What buff?
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You said "And its a games job to be enjoyable, thats what people play games for"
And im repeating a comment from 2 pages ago, because apperently you didnt read it or forgot about it.
Its not about whatsaboutism, its about balancing the game, if you nerf one side with out nerfing the other, it will just get more unbalanced.
Why are you arguing so bad about 1 side should get nerfed ? should we not make a thread about ALL the things that are needed to make this fair and balanced?
I think im the only survivor that i have seen here, that are saying that i want both sides to get balanced, 99% of the complains on theese forum is "Do not buff the enemy, buff us" or "Nerf the enemy but not us" and to be hornest, its really childish.
Lets work together and try to get a good game that is fun and balanced for both sides to play.
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Yes, it is about whataboutism. You mentioned a completely different issue as a counter argument.
I dont care what side an issue is on, I just want this game to be as fun and enjoyable as possible
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They buffed the window for flashlight saves. No longer requiring that pinpoint exact timing to blind the killer. Flashlights were buffed.
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Ah so removing locker saves did not happen. Got you. Or actually it did! What a shocker. You still did not notice that part. Go read those patch notes again
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I didn't say the locker removal didn't happen. I said that flashlight saves were buffed, after you claimed the devs favor killers by never doing anything for survivors - which they just did.
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Right, im done debating with you.
I suggest you read the full thread before commenting further on it, as you pick up subjects we already talked about, and your not brining anything new to the debate.
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