General Discussions

General Discussions

Hook Suciding | Should I Report?

Member Posts: 8,243

Pretty simple question.

If someone decides to kill themselves on the hook immediately, should I report them? I mainly ask this because there's a DC penalty and by hook suciding, they are basically DCing (prematurely quitting the game). Of course, hook sucides are contextual, and know all the different reasons as to why someone should / shouldn't hook sucide.

For example, something I would report is someone going down immediately, failed to self unhook three times, and proceeded to fail two struggle skill checks. Something I wouldn't report is someone hook suciding because it is a sweaty Nurse at 5 generators and there's already one dead with everyone on death hook. The game is already over and they acknowledged that — they are accepting their loss and moving on to the next game.

I see people talk about an automatic system, but again, an AI to detect such cases seem way too complicated and might backfire on innocent survivors who have a good reason to hook sucide. With all this said...

Is it a good idea to report survivors who hook sucide to avoid the DC penalty? Might be a stupid question, but I want to hear opinions before I go further with doing so.

Please keep it civilized and leave your emotions out of this. I just want a cool discussion from this where we can talk and see if we can reach an agreement. Thanks.

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Comments

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    Do they not log the entire match with an in-game report? Even their survival time is sometimes enough to deduce they killed themselves as soon as possible.

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    Wouldn't it be considered griefing? Considering they purposely sandbagged the entire game for their team?

  • Member Posts: 15,095

    Reported it a couple of times, but i don´t know if it has any effect. Judging from the amount of suicides i doubt it.

  • Member Posts: 1,251

    Very unlikely but they might try to get the achievement and therefore have a legitimate reason to try it.

    It's a shame but unfortunately it's part of the game. In some exceptional situations it is also important to be able to let yourself die.

    should you report him? no.

    should you keep a list of people and what they did to avoid them in the future? perhaps.

  • Member Posts: 3,140

    I don't think it's a reportable offense (at least yet), so I'd advise against reporting it, lest it clutters the reports and make the support agent's jobs more tedious.

    However, if the question was should it be reportable, then under some conditions like you said, probably ! However, I think it would open the door to trolls mass reporting other players for hook suiciding whether it's true or not. Maybe it could be programmed to give a DC penalty if you're the first hooked and suicide ?

    And on no other instance of hooks (so that legit hook suicides couldn't be penalized) ?

    Food for thought !

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    Appreciate all the responses everyone and for being cool about it. I'm in a game atm, but I'll get back to you all whenever I can! :)

  • Member Posts: 233

    Even though it's annoying, I don't think its worth reporting. Even then, I would say if you are considering to report someone just treat each case differently. A lot of people have their reasons for doing it; not saying its a tactic that should be defended, but sometimes you just have to accept that someone may just want out and consider the game a loss.

    You can keep playing that match, or make an attempt to move onto the next one if you get caught yourself. Its all you can really do, until a statement is put out that suiciding on hook is reportable or they end up changing how the mechanic for self-unhooking. The latter would be more optimal to keep people to stick through the game.

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    I guess the question would be if it's not offensive, where do we draw the line at for sandbagging / griefing? I thought anything done to throw the game or ruin other's experience was offensive? Isn't that why BHVR has DC penalties? Just somethings to think about.

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    Thanks, it was just a question to be safe because it was a grey area for me.

    I haven't made any reports because I wanted to double check, so you don't have to worry.

    Also, did you assume my emotions? I'm a very happy person.

    Joking with you.

  • Member Posts: 15,095

    Just had a hook suiciding teammate at 5 gens against Weskuh.

    So

    Much

    Fun!

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    No reports were submitted.

    Just asking a question because it was a grey area for me.

    Thanks for the response. :)

  • Member Posts: 871

    First of all, the mere fact that there is a 4% probability of getting off a hook alone with an attempt renders null and void any complaint about "suicide on the hook".


    It is impossible:

    - that on the one hand, the players can try 3 times to free themselves, with a final mathematical expectation of 12%

    - and that on the other hand, the fact of trying to free oneself is punishable


    As for the fact of voluntarily missing his QTE during phase 2: how could you prove that it was something voluntary?


    Unless you are in the same room as the player, and watching him to see what is really going on, IRL, you have no proof.


    Obviously, someone might say to me, "Yeah, but when a killer commits suicide, but is released while in phase 2, it's easy to tell if he really wants to kill himself, he's running on the killer."


    Yeah, unless he's smart. The smartest players will know how to give the impression of playing "normally", when in fact they will just try to discreetly get close to the killer, to feign normal behavior, while making it not too difficult for the killer to catch up with them.


    And they do this for two reasons: first, so that the other survivors don't report them for anti-gaming, but also, so that the killer doesn't notice their ploy.


    For some killers sometimes tend to punish themselves the survivors who "give themselves away". I know because I've done it; one day, after I chased a Feng Min and hooked her, and while I wasn't really putting any pressure on the game, I saw on my screen, at her icon, that she was making a lot of attempts, and that she was voluntarily omitting to do her QTEs; she was saved in extremis, but came back to me; I put her back on the ground, but then left her on the ground, to go and take care of her mates.

    The funniest part of the story is that in the end, the others were not at all teamed up with her, and didn't want to be involved; in the end, I picked her up just as she was about to die of exhaustion, and hung her up. I then farmed with the other 3 survivors, who were very happy that all 4 of us had made points.

    The worst part is that even though she clearly wanted to kill herself from the start, she stayed in the lobby until the end, so she could insult me profusely.

  • Member Posts: 865

    As he said, reporting in this game is a joke. Wjy having a report system when you need video evidence of what happened?

    I still report hook suicide, hackers, camping and tunneling killers, even tho I know they won't do anything at all

  • Member Posts: 533

    They are literally the ones who created the ability to “attempt to unhook,” and failing to do so speeds up the death process…if it were against the rules, I suppose they never would have given us the ability to attempt to unhook ourselves?

    Of course much like everything else, it can be abused. But when you’re playing killer, you don’t see everything..maybe they’re playing solo and no one is making a move to come for them anyway…who knows. I can say personally, if it’s my first hook and they let me go into stage 2…don’t bother coming at all.

  • Member Posts: 533

    Why wouldn’t she insult you? If I’m reading correctly, you left her slugged until she was almost bled out and then farmed w her teammates? You recognized she didn’t want to play, you downed her, you could have hooked her and moved on.

  • Member Posts: 533

    Maybe they don’t do anything about real issues, because they’re too busy sorting through all the non-reportable things that are reported.

    You reporting hook suicides, camping, and tunneling are a waste of everyone’s time. Not against the rules, just annoying game play.

  • Member Posts: 871

    First of all, do you really ask: "And why shouldn't she have insulted you?"?


    Simply because even if you disagree with someone, respect and politeness mean that you can express yourself without insulting the other person.


    That being said, I agree on one fact: I am no one to judge, condemn and punish, and I have no legitimacy to do so.


    However, I did not appreciate the fact that she abandoned her team without any valid reason, starting to commit suicide when I had not even started to charge my teleportation to get away from the hook.

    For I must point out that although I was playing on my nurse during this game, I was using a non-meta build, I was playing very chill, and when I hooked her the first time, a generator had just been finished.


    I should also point out that the length of my chase on her was not excessively long, but it was far from an instadown, she managed some nice baits.


    Also, a survivor takes four minutes to bleed out, which is, if I'm not being silly, longer than the duration of the first DC-induced ban phase. It is up to her to leave the game.

    Especially since she still waited for the rest of the game to come and insult me in the chat.

    And when we know that with the other survivors, we farmed in an optimal way, that is to say to make all the generators, to break all the palettes of the map, to farm the gauges of care until the maximum, to hang all the world 2 times, etc., my faith, if she really wanted to leave... she had largely the time of it

  • Member Posts: 3,253

    I rather get a hook suicide then a disconnect. It not reportable if anything take it as a compliment.

  • Member Posts: 5,878

    Yall ever gonna do something about it though? There's a reason there is a penalty for DCing. Hook suicide is basically circumventing that DC penalty.

  • Member Posts: 533

    You have no idea what was going on on her end for her to want to kill herself. How do you know she wasn’t a baby surv trying to legitimately unhook herself? How do you know she wasn’t solo q and had terrible teammates. How do you know you weren’t her 3rd nurse match in a row and she couldn’t take it anymore? You don’t.


    She was trying to leave the game, not wasting your time. You wasted hers. Survivor doesn’t want to play, cool do your part and hook them. Your objective isn’t to say “oh I guess I’ll punish them by slugging.” It’s to down and hook. You’re not the entity.

  • Member Posts: 871
    edited November 2022

    "How do you know she wasn’t a baby surv trying to legitimately unhook herself?"

    A baby survivor does not have 2000 and some hours in DbD (yes, like everyone else, I sometimes look at the profile of the survivors I face).


    "How do you know she wasn’t solo q and had terrible teammates"

    Whether she is solo or not is of little importance in our case. Moreover, I remind you that she started killing herself in the early game, while the other survivors had done nothing more than ... repairing generators (1 of which had pop before I hooked her), and that besides, she didn't suck at looping me at all.


    "How do you know you weren’t her 3rd nurse match in a row and she couldn’t take it anymore?"

    In fact, if you ask me, although I can't be 100% sure, I think what motivated her decision was the moment she saw that she couldn't blind me with her flashlight (yes, I plead guilty, I'm mean, I had equipped lightborn), and that allowed me to take her down right after.

    She clearly didn't have the attitude of someone desperate; she would have come straight to me from the beginning, and wouldn't have started the chase; instead, I got the feeling of a child in the middle of a tantrum because he realizes that his toy doesn't work.


    "She was trying to leave the game, not wasting your time. You wasted hers. Survivor doesn’t want to play, cool do your part and hook them. Your objective isn’t to say “oh I guess I’ll punish them by slugging.” It’s to down and hook. You’re not the entity."

    Yes, I could very well have hooked her again, and gone farming, but on her side, she could very well have left the lobby once she died of exhaustion, instead of waiting for us to finish our veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long farm session to insult me copiously. It's up to her.


    We will say that we shared the blame.

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    Mandy, if it gets too heated in here, you're more than welcome to close the thread.

    My question was answered as well, so no worries. I just don't want people tearing each other apart over a simple question that I asked.

  • Member Posts: 533

    I can agree with you on the lightborn, I always run it and am surprised by the amount of survivors that immediately give up when they can’t flashlight.


    I stand by the rest though. I think you’re overly concerned for someone who is playing killer, and not just hooking her and being on your way was in bad taste.


    Survivors killings themselves on first hook is a survivor problem, you’re objective is to make sure no one escapes…she just made it easier for you.

  • Member Posts: 15,095

    Rage quitting is on the example list for valid reports. Someone who is suiciding, is obviously someone who rage quit. Does that mean, that its actually not a valid report?

  • Member Posts: 871

    You're right, she did somehow give me a much easier way to win; and let's just say I could have let her go; even if she just had a whim, let's just say we're both at fault 🤗

  • Member Posts: 865

    Camping, Tunneling, and Hook Suicide fit to me in the "refuses to participate in a normal gameplay" option by making miserable the game for others :)

  • Member Posts: 3,964
    edited November 2022

    I still don't understand why this loophole is allowed when it is directly bypassing an existing rule against disconnecting, for which there is a direct penalty per infraction. There are ways it can be verified both internally (through simple data like serialization or stored variables since C++ pretty much has the ability inherently) and externally through the same user report system that is used for other examples of cheating/hacking/etc. Why is this one so fiercely sanctioned and defended, especially when there is no parity between roles?

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    Where would we draw the line at? Not trying to be obnoxious or anything, (promise) because some people here have made some valid points (see below).

    Maybe, and don't take it to heart or anything, but are these considered "too hard" to validate? Therefore, the team decides to not avoid these altogether? If so, I understand, I know some reports can be rather tricky and time consuming when the team can be focused on more pressing reports. Again, I'm not judging, just looking for some clarification and transparency.

    I apologize if I said anything wrong.

  • Member Posts: 810

    those are normal play styles. Just because some special snowflakes take it personal and got their feelings hurt doesnt mean its in evil intent... its playing a GAME.. This community will never understand.

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    Well, no. You missed the point.

    Bodyblocking is NOT punishable because it's a game mechanic both sides can use. However, depending on your intentions behind it, it can be punishable despite it being a game mechanic.

    Ex: Blocking someone into a corner for 20 minutes.

    See what I'm and others are trying to hint at? I personally don't care about how people play, I'm just asking a question because people have made some good points. Nothing serious or anything.

  • Member Posts: 810

    just making sure noone turns it into another "tnnel bad" fake argument.. What your reffering to is taking the game hostage, like litteraly. Yes its done by body blocking but it is not 'only' body blocking, its done exxeggarated for no other reason than to bully someone. I think that is a very easy to understand diffrence.

  • Member Posts: 810

    I mean im not a dev but the diffrence is the hook struggle is an ingame mechanic, without a penalty, there would obviously be DC abuse over the top and into the Void straight away.


    While quitters suck yes, they dont do something quite gamebreaking. Ok you could argue them making it in a 3v1 can cost you a game, but thats also the case if you just get killed very fast regular or if the killer especcially tunnels the weak link of the team. So it is within that spectrum of bad going games for the survivor side.


    And now i get your point of it might me hard to measure when its actually a throw or when the people just miss. Also the first 3 struggles at first hook could be trying to 4% too, thats just to hard to control. (personally if there is no luck offerings paired 4 or if they dont use deliverance i ALWAYS see it as suiciding on hook because they dont like something. But in theory it could be anything.)

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    Great points! It would be hard to differentiate between suicides, but the case most players are pointing out in the thread are bluntly obvious rage quitters.

    They go down immediately.

    Fail to unhook three times.

    Fail two struggle skill checks.

    This all happens within the span of a minute into the game, so it's obvious they are sandbagging the entire game by quitting prematurely.

    However, I can see how difficult it would to prove they "quit" the game. It's just something to think about. No big deal or anything.

  • Member Posts: 3,322

    Devs have repeatedly said all three of those (especially camping and tunneling) are not “griefing” and reportable. You’ve just gotta live with them.

  • Member Posts: 15,095

    I think validating the points screen and several people (that are not swf) writing about it in the endgame chat, shouldn´t be to difficult to implement as a checking mechanic.

  • Member Posts: 8,243

    We need a definition of a hook sucide before we can actively look for them. My personal definition was:

    ▪︎Someone who skipped phase one by self-unhooking three times and preceeded to fail two skill checks.

    ▪︎This must all take place on a single hook instance.

    ▪︎This had to be done within the first two minutes.

    ▪︎Only targets the first survivor. Subsequent survivors will not be marked.

    If these conditions are met, the game will be flagged for moderation.


    However, until it becomes official, this will not be punishable. Just an idea on how they could detect quitters.

  • Member Posts: 15,095

    Some people get unhooked before they reach second stage, then don´t run away and instantly suicide on the second stage.

    I think 2 people commenting/reporting (if they are not in a swf) should be enough as "proof". Like for example a survivor that had 2k bloodpoints and other survivors reporting it.

  • Member Posts: 696

    Why would they waste time and energy doing this when there is a plethora of other problems?

    It sounds completely idiotic.

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