gen perks on both sides should be overhauled
They should get rid of gen perks for both sides (with maybe some super healthy ones left here and there) and make the game way more chase oriented. OBVIOUSLY they would have to fix map sizes and the way certain loops spawn ie making super weak killer sided loops better for example the new ones on autohaven maps and then make super insanely cracked op setups weaker, but a more chase oriented dbd would definitely be funner imo atleast, and dont get me wrong you can already play like this and not really care about winning but then you get hit with fractured cowshed as the pig with no gen slowdown vs 2 prove and bnps on the other side or something and its just an instant rip basically
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You might as well stop right there at fix map sizes. Have you seen the new maps they churn out? You think this has any hope of EVER happening?
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That would be a pretty massive killer nerf since most survivor repair speed stuff is pretty bad imo. I would rather perk categories or a perk point system
Post edited by Steakdabait on1 -
I agree. Gen stall is mostly a band-aid for the fact most map set ups make it impossible to build up legitimate pressure through chase alone. I sometimes just give up at 2 gens and focus on chasing people because gen defense is so boring.
But it's also more than just gen perks. It's the spread of them as well as things like Circle of Healing. I've had games go to almost 30 minutes where I just protect a 3 gen while the team runs back and forth from the boon. I can't leave the gens to kick the boon or else I have no hope of winning, along with the fact they can just set it back up. While they also have to get one gen on my side done to win or they're screwed. It just creates an infinite cycle of a rinse and repeat action.
Really everything that tampers with gen speeds and their existing design (bnp's and prove for example) need to be gone. Perks that negate debuffs with no real trade off. Going back to prove thyself as an example: normally survivors have reduced efficiency because of grouping up on a gen. They put in less charges but shave off a few seconds and gain less progress on different gens. But, Prove just negates this entirely. The charge debuff just isn't there. So they can slam gens with no draw back, because the time saved for one gen isn't a big problem now.
Better map design would fix a majority of this games problems. 3 gens wouldn't be an issue if you didn't have to defend one part of the map before it's impossible to patrol all the gens and vice versa. Killers wouldn't need to run 4 slowdowns if they had an actual opportunity to clean out pallets or not have to deal with 7 filler pallets next to shack and a jungle gym.
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Which perks are "healthy"?
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Hyperfocus & Prove Thyself good! Eruption, Jolt, Pain Resonance, Dead Man's Switch BAD
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You'd only be able to do this if holding W through a map between pallets wasn't almost a guarantee of buying well over a minute against the wrong killers (or with the maps spawning every conceivably random obstacle at once to shut down everything else).
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idk maybe something like hyperfocus buy itself, definitely resilience seeing it has a good trade off to reward ratio, surge definitely is pretty healthy
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no that even more anti fun then being able to run 4 slowdown or 4 second chance perks because it takes away choice which is never fun especially in a game that has so many unique perks that make cool builds if you start putting things into categories or having a perk point system you start getting situations where entirely healthy and balanced perks start getting ######### for no reason
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i mean obviously i agree i dont believe maps will ever be fixed but its a hypothetical conversation
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No, i dont think more chase oriented would be more fun. I actually like the hide-and-seek playstyle the game was meant to be played in the beginning, which is mostly gone anyway. Removing the rest of it in favor for more chases just make the game more linear and boring.
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except getting rid of gen perks doesnt change the remaining sliver of hide and seek like at all in fact hiding around gens and not being seen to then complete them after evading the killer would become stronger if there is no gen slowdown or gen speed up perks
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I mean we've been telling them map design and map size are the games biggest issues for literally years and we are still getting new maps that are both unfairly designed and still too large. I don't see this fixing anytime soon if the same mistakes that were being made years ago are still being made today with nothing learned.
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They aren't making mistakes in their mind though. They want maps to be extremely survivor sided
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More linear and boring = more skillful and interesting.
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I'm all for it.
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They wont nerf killers, since they are happy with current killrates.
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I don't know about you but Borgo feels absolutely tiny to me. It seems like you can see the killer from the complete opposite end of the map. Yet it's technically bigger than Garden of Joy.
It's most likely the fact that it's almost a perfect square with virtually no obstacles above head height, they should go back to layouts like Yamaoka.
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More boring = more interesting? How'd you figure that?
Getting millisecond and millimetre precise timing and distances down might be "skilful", but there's nothing 'interesting' about running around the same loop precisely 47 times before you need to drop the pallet because you know the 48th time the killer will be able to hit you.
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So extremely survivor sided, that I win 80% of all my killer games. Makes you wonder what they are doing wrong :D
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You can say this, but I don't think your saying the truth. Because if it's true, your not on high MMR, or maybe you play only nurse, blight and spirit.
And also if it's true and you play every killer in the game, you can't negate that maps are a big problem in dbd, always advantage survivors in any way possible. I think autoeven is the more balanced, I think but I don't know honestly. I win lots of my games as killer, but I recognise that maps in this game are a problem.
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You know, years ago the game was chase oriented, and in fact genrush wasn't a problem and if I lost a game was only because I met skillful survivors that kept me in chase for lots of time. Now you can spam pallet, spam second chance and genrush perks and you win also if you last 20 seconds in chase.
This game doesn't reward skill anymore, if you're noob you can still win as survivor. You can throw pallet and rush gens with hyperfocus and prove thyself and you still win. It's not surv sided, it's noob sided because this game reward who doesn't want to learn how to chase, how to keep killer for the whole game and, at the same time, doesn't reward the killer for ultrashort chases. If the game focus on chases instead of gen, trust me that in particular veteran will be happy, also because you can run every type of build without getting genrushed
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I play mostly wesker, twins and spirit in this exact order (and then I play many more other killers from time to time).
I can agree with you that some maps for some killers are just too much to handle. Lery's for blight, RPD for huntress, the game for freddy, cowshed for pig, GoJ for almost all killers.
But I can also name you the reverse examples - like the game for nurse and nemesis, wrecker's yard for onryo, blood lodge for huntress, midwitch for every single killer in game.
Overall maps are not universally balanced. But they are part of RNG. For every bad possibility, there's one good possibility. And even 1-sided maps can have totally different outcome if you play different killer (like I love to win almost all my games on RPD as killer. This is totally not true if I play nurse or doctor)
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if you're noob you can still win as survivor.
Yet some people still die every game, how?
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Today I played against 2 BNP's and 3rd just commodius toolbox. On badham. I had no problem getting my 4k. Sure enough, I played Wesker, but I don't use any better then green addons. How is it possible if survivors can noob win just by staying on gens? Sounds like some kind of miracle.
Or the game is in fact heavily killer sided. 4 out of 5 games I do win. 0 camp or tunnel. Sounds a lot different to what you are saying.
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Well Coal Tower is probably the ideal balanced map size in my opinion.
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I forgot to mention swf. Obviously there are exception but I don't think that I am the only one who meet 9 match out of 10 3/4 people swf. I had my win with genrush, don't misunderstand me, but saying the game is killer sided only because you win lots of game is not telling the truth. I'm main pyramid head, when I play him it's another thing. Probably I lost like 3 matches with ph, maybe you win because you play killer that you know well? Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying you're noob, but maybe you're just good with you're favorite killer and it's obvious that if you play you're favorite killer it's easier to win.
Hope to be clear, I'm Italian and I don't know if I wrote something wrong
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Every game? Lol, I don't know which game you play, but trust me, not every game. With my swf, at least 3 escaped every game, I say 3 because we are a 3 people swf so you know, the random is noob or strong. One of my friends is noob, really, he can't do a gen without missing at least 2/3 skill check, and in chase bro it's disgusting, really. And we still managed to escape in 3 or 4. If this game isn't noob friendly, why he managed to escape and he didn't died? Because he used a genrush build, prove thyself, help genrush. And in the end he managed everytime to get out. Do you understand what I mean? Also if he is noob ok 2 out of 3 are strong (me and my other friend) but he is disgustingly noob, he doesn't deserve to escape and in the end he manage every time to escape with us. It doesn't matter what is your skill level, if you manage to genrush you win. Easy, also if you can't keep the killer in chase. Before this, if someone didn't know how to chase a killer he died, he could've try to genrush but he die in the end, now also if you last 20 seconds the other survs manage to do gens. I remember a match in particular with the spirit, like 15 seconds to the first gen, I didn't find a surv yet and they managed to do a gen in 15 seconds. I still won that game, but because I played super sweaty, tunnel and camp all the game. Before was unnecessary tunnel and camp, I would love to see dbd in 2019 condition, when wasn't this frustrating and unbalanced
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I generally win with wesker or twins. Usually win on spirit or plague, do good on nurse if I play her more then 1x per weak, do good on hag, cannibal, dredge and legion, do OK on ghostface, doctor, huntress, wraith and clown (balanced 50%) and do really bad on pig, deathslinger, oni and billy. This should show that I don't play 1 or 2 killers. Also I see almost no difference between SWF and solo. But I don't camp or tunnel on any of my killers - so they don't need to cooperate really well to get out of those situations.
Also every killer has his own MMR, so after a few games I should have 50% winrate. But that's not the case. Overall I win much more then I loose. Also I swapped to killer after being totally frustrated from survivor plays. Killer is much less stressful for me at least. Also much easier for me at least.
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We must be a completely different mmr
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I was exchanging their words for ones I believe to be more accurate. Are you really telling me hiding is more interesting than chases/looping? I can't think of a single other thing that's interesting about dbd besides chases unless you are someone who is only here for the big name horror figures. Gameplay wise that is.
I guess if you play m1 killers that makes sense, personally I play blight who actually has a good enough kit and skill expression that allows me to play around most tiles even if it would be more effective to just break pallets every time. The issue with a lot of the lower tier killers is that it really is up to the survivor to make a mistake.
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'Good chases' for the survivor typically involve running around the same stack of boxes dozens of times, until you smack the killer in the face with a pallet, then you repeat at the next loop, over and over, until you take two hits or all the gens are done. I get how satisfying smacking the killer with a pallet is, but there has to be a more effective way to do it than run around the same stack of boxes dozens of times. As killer, it's the dullest part of the game. I often end up giving up after about 10 loops and just staring at the survivor on the opposite side as they teabag me, completely safe from harm a mere 4 meters away from a homicidal killer.
We're playing a horror game. It's far more exhilarating to be trying to complete objectives without getting caught, hiding as the killer comes by, wondering whether or not they'll find you. Chases are bound to come into it, but juke plays where you lose the killer mid chase are far more satisfying than "oh I ran the killer for 47 seconds and looped him 29 times".
The part of the game that gets my blood pumping more than any, is when I'm the last remaining survivor, and I'm trying to get get to an exit gate, and get it open, before the killer spots me. Being spotted and running for your life should be the 'oh #########' moment before you end up dead, not the core of the gameplay loop.
Instead I find that most survivors just give up at that point. They can't be bothered playing a horror game, they'd rather just play playground tag and ######### to their clique about how bad a player the kid who "is it" is.
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It's really a each their own moment. I would never have really got into this game if it was based around hiding. It was fun to hide for the first few custom games vs my friends but then it got old. But I have always played competitive games my entire life, so that's probably why I find chase interesting compared to hiding.
But you gotta understand Blight(with the exception of a couple add-ons) has the most skill expression and allows for the most skill expression on the survivor side. Every single thing on the map is at the disposal of the survivors to use against me. You have pallets and windows just like any other killer, you break LoS just like nurse whenever the scenario is fitting, you can use his own collision against him and abuse various collisions around the map (although the last one is asking a lot from the 95% of survivor players who have never played blight). I went through many different mains but everyone else is dull in comparison now. The reason I'm saying all of this is because he is not like an m1 killer that the survivor has full control over and he is not nurse where the counter play is weak and inconsistent, he is his own beast that truly brings out the chase aspect of the game that the devs have been pushing for a while now. Blight literally deletes the most unskilled aspect of the game(w key) and forces survivors to actually try and play around him.
Blight is the only reason I still play this game otherwise I probably would have been over it in February. Unfortunately the games design is in this middle ground where they still have the chance to overhaul the game and increase it's life span, but they have so much work to do with survivor objective, map design and all but a few killers are designed poorly power wise.
And with all of that said I do realize you probably started playing dbd when the game was more suited to your wants and you had to watch it slowly transition to it's current state.
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it wouldnt really be a nerf to either side it would just be more a gameplay shift
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i would say wreckers yard tbh or dead dawg some coal tower rng is INSANE
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Bro, trust me, MMR doesn't exist. I remember when Wesker came out I did a test: I searched a lobby with pyramid (my favourite killer, the one which in theory has the highest mmr because I rarely loose with him) and then I searched a lobby with Wesker: same survs. I did this test for like some days, and it didn't change anything. I meet the same survivors also with killers that I never touched such as trapper.
I don't know what kind of swf you meet, because really I meet every game really organised swf with genrush builds.
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Oh and, with "MMR doesn't exist" I mean that MMR difference between killers doesn't exist. You have the same MMR with, for example, nurse and blight and maybe you never played blight but you're main nurse who win every game with nurse
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Or maybe different skill level. I'm not saying you're noob, I only say that maybe me and my swf are more organised. Obviously if you play soloq is another thing
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1, MMR does exist, but it's very... Volatile. If it finds out game immediately, it can mean you were autofilled to someone's lobby (so you are in wrong group). If you wait for long time, it means MMR will be turned off just so that you get any match at this point (so again unfair game). If you wait for say 20s, you should get your game that should be pretty fair. Also if you are huge MMR on other killers and then unlock new killer, you will not start from "0" MMR. It was said you will start with your average MMR minus something - so that you don't play with total beginers.
2, When I play (only SWF now, soloQ is so bad I refuse to touch it any more), I play with a guy with almost 9300 hours and skill to match that. There are other people there with 5K and 3K hours and I myself have about 1400 hours (which were spent with these guys from the beginning of my games) - meaning I think I am pretty good survivor (very far from godlike, sure I still make a ton of mistakes, but I know how to loop and already have pretty good game sense). I don't mean to boast, but you hint at me that I am some kind of noob. That is just not truth
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Oh sorry for that, I never meant to say that you're noob. I don't know you and I don't see how you play, so you know it's impossible to say this. I'm a good survivor too, I alway play swf because, as you said, soloq is only pain and also if I'm good in chase (I'm not godlike because I still do mistakes, but I'm not crap).
About the MMR thing, ok, maybe it's supposed to be balanced between every killer MMR, but it isn't fair that I meet the same people I meet with my "top mmr killer" when I play a killer that came out the day before. You know, I didn't play the knight already because I don't have much free time, but it wouldn't be so fun to meet top mmr survivors with a C-tier killer that I don't know how to play, don't you think?
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Sure. Mmr sometimes screws up heavily.
Yesterday I played survivor with said group and we got 130h legion. He was good for his hours but still. I was the person with least skill in that lobby (as stated 1400hrs). You can imagine the kind of stomp he got (no toxicity - we don't do that. He just lost hard). But that's not our fault. MM sometimes really does a bad job.
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Obviously no mercy for anyone but 0 toxicity. Toxicity only if my opponents are toxic. I remember a spirit who probably had its first match against me and my premade, poor thing he got stomped but it's not our fault. In my opinion they have to get rid of mmr and put like an arena system like clash royal (or something like that), so you would meet more easily survs and killers of your level.
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