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How are we supposed to have any type of chance or fun if all of the killers keep tunneling and camp?
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Gotta say, this post has some really great and insightful content
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It's the biggest flaw with the game; Survivors want to do gens ASAP, Killers want to kill ASAP.
Can't allow one side to play optimally while punishing the other side for the same thing.
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Killers probably wouldn't tunnel and camp as much if they didn't constantly feel like it was the only option in a desperate attempt to stop the gens.
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Not really. 10s added to gen completion did not make camping and tunneling less frequent. So no, making gens slower will not stop camping and tunneling.
Tho i agree that both camping and gen rushing is bad.
There was a proposal in terms of gen rushing/regresion, making gens slower/faster depending on match pacing - more slowdown perks/less efficient teams would get passive gen progression bonus, and too fast gens would do otherwise. But its the topic about camping - camping should be removed by game mechanics. Like, hooked survivor would be consumed by Entity, and "spit out" after few seconds in random place at least 30m away of the killer (This could go further like survs dont die untill endgame, and each hook giving more pressure/increasing time before "respawn", giving more opportunity to actually play the game), and this would remove camping totally.
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along with this, the survivors received 1 free slot for the genrush perk, thereby increasing the repair time by 10, but the survivors can take perks that speed up the genrush by 20%
so the killer ends up with less time
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toolbox + Built to Last gives you -70 seconds to repair a generator, while the upgrade only gave you +50 seconds
4 toolbox survivors is already -280 sec
And now add the perks for genrush and discord, then you wonder why a killer who physically does not have time to make 12 hooks in 2 minutes camps you
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I agree with that genrush is also unhealthy to the game, tho this is not a topic for genrush. Both cases should be resolved - genrush and camping, but this is topic for camping, and the fact that genrush is unhealthy is not an argument for camping.
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most of the camp stems from the genrush, the maniac should act proactively because an uncamped survivor can cost him a victory, I have a good idea to to remove all genrush perks from repair speed and give all m1 killers +0.2 to speed, the first 30 seconds, generators repair more slowly
But in return, give kindred to all survivors and make it so that after hanging you cannot be removed for the first 15 seconds (very often the survivors are removed before the killer leaves) but these first 15 seconds the timer does not go in this way it will be +30 seconds (with two hooks)
thus m1 killer will feel better and less likely to resort to the camp, and the survivors will have more time to resist the camp and the tunnel
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First, 10 seconds more proved to be nothing as right now with the Gen Rushing meta survivors are doing gens in less that 50 seconds, hence still the need of taking a survivor of the game ASAP.
Second, that suggestion would only allow survivors to not even have to lose time by doing saves as the hooked survivor would simple unhook himself in a safe place, aggravating the gen rushing problem and making tunneling even more a need (as now it is better for me to go after an already hooked survivor to take him out of the game even earlier than before). What you want to do is not only take away the capacity of killers to defend their kill (as even if I don't pretend to camp, if you don't even wait for me to leave before trying the save don't pretend for me to just give it to you for free) but the one basekit way they have to stop gen progression by indirectly making survivors stop to doing gens. In other words, simply punish all killers for the sake of not suffer something only a few of them can do effectively (and you be able to always have fun).
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There have being a discussion about this in another post where I think people have explained in detail why camping is not the problem many think it is and why you can realistically do anything to avoid it for multiple reasons.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304748
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And you conveniently forgot to state how much BTL actually eats time so that in fact it takes longer to do gens with btl then without it. Also it takes up perk slot which could be used for other things - like staying alive.
Without reassurence bubba can get 2-4 kills every game (provided he can get his 1-2 chases in any reasonable time - and I mean reasonable, not perfect chase). That's result of 90s gens + deadlock. That was proven by killer main Otz. There's a video about it.
Sure. That's also the reason why patch 6.1 boosted camping and tunneling like never before. Killers camp, because devs designed the game so, that it makes the game most effortless way to win. This was already shown by killers. Even 500hrs killer can camp/tunnel his way into 3-4k against 4man SWF lobby with 3k hrs on average now. But you would know it if you actually cared to play both sides
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Exactly, and less time in higher MMR constricts the number of viable options. I'm starting to feel like a lot of survivor players don't quite understand the most common reason for things like slugging, camping and tunneling, so here it is: It's because there is barely any time to commit to chases as the killer before you have to make the decision to keep chasing somebody or lose a generator.
It is too quickly that slugging, camping and tunneling become the only answers to the possibility of still catching somebody even though the gens are getting completed faster than you can react.
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... This is the usual circular argument. The only time I and the people I know feel compelled to put on more than one prove (usually the one who has to do coop for a challenge or ritual or whatnot - and that's mostly to offset the coop penalty) is if we had several matches where we had to smh make it through stacked slowdowns, camping, tunnelling and 3gen-gaming. Train of thought: well, if we go against stuff like that we smh need to be able to make it so that we can complete a gen in 60sec or less.
Are spaghetti gen times (imo that the range of how long a gen can take -- what is it, anything between 40sec and realistically 3min, in reality 60min? -- a huge catalyst for such behaviour? Absolutely. Are they the root issue that, one fixed, will fix these behaviours? No.
Why? Because there is something else that comes up whenever tunneling/camping is mentioned: efficiency. More precisely: that it is wrong to blame killers for playing efficiently. --- And truth is: even longer gens won't make camping/tunneling less efficient. Quite the contrary.
That being said, imo, gens should stick much closer to the 90sec baseline. Survs can't speed repair up like crazy and killers can't slow down like crazy. Make it so that a gen can't really be done in under 70secs - but also can't take longer than 3min, provided it gets stopped from regressing after 10sec or so on average. And it becomes all about which flavour of slowdown/speedup you want and not how much of it. Different means to achieve the same goal so that at the end we hopefully have some more variety.
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You basically think of PH's cages with a little more ooomph, yes?
That could be interesting.
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More-less... but basically yes, this is good start, those cages are great for anti-camping.
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