A complete overhaul to trials could solve most of the game's problems

Orion

@Janick @Patricia I had an idea that could very well solve the majority of frustrations from both sides. It would require hard work from the devs, but I truly believe that if the game is to be truly fixed for both sides, it needs more than band-aid solutions like Hex: Ruin. The game needs to become more complex so that it can be properly balanced.

This idea would:

• Revamp the Survivor gameplay to make it less boring.
• Put SWF closer to solo players.
• Make the solo players' success almost completely independent of their team's ability, thus eliminating the need for the hatch.
• Make Killer less frustrating.
• Eliminate the so-called "death efficiency problem"/snowball effect.
• Eliminate genrush.

The idea is simple: give each Survivor something different to do during the trial. Let me explain:

• Each Survivor would have a unique set of goals they'd need to complete in order to escape. This could replace generators entirely or add to them.
• Survivors who successfully completed all their goals would be able to unlock the exit gates and escape the trial.
• Survivors who did not complete all their goals would not be able to unlock the exit gates or escape. Even if they went to the exit, the Entity would block their path. This means that Survivors could no longer be carried by their team.
• Survivors could work together to accomplish their goals, or they could choose to focus on their own goals. Naturally, this carries the risk that those who have not completed their goals will not be able to escape if the Killer catches them working together, but it also means that they can complete their goals more quickly if they work together. However, Survivors would not be able to complete each others' objectives unless the person to whom the objectives belong is working on it at the same time.
• Auras of all the objectives would be visible to the Killer, color-coded to differentiate between what each Survivor has to do. For example, say there are 3 things each Survivor must do; this means there will be 3 objectives with the same color, another 3 objectives with a different color, and so on.

I know this seems like a lot of work, but I think it'd be worth it in the end. I know you guys (devs) read this, and I know you rarely reply, but if I could get some feedback, I'd appreciate it.

alivebydeadight

@Orion said:
@Janick I had an idea that could very well solve the majority of frustrations from both sides. It would require hard work from the devs, but I truly believe that if the game is to be truly fixed for both sides, it needs more than band-aid solutions like Hex: Ruin. The game needs to become more complex so that it can be properly balanced.

This idea would:

• Revamp the Survivor gameplay to make it less boring.
• Put SWF closer to solo players.
• Make the solo players' success almost completely independent of their team's ability, thus eliminating the need for the hatch.
• Make Killer less frustrating.
• Eliminate the so-called "death efficiency problem"/snowball effect.
• Eliminate genrush.

The idea is simple: give each Survivor something different to do during the trial. Let me explain:

• Each Survivor would have a different goal they'd need to complete in order to escape. This could replace generators entirely or add to them.
• Survivors who successfully completed all their goals would be able to unlock the exit gates and escape the trial.
• Survivors who did not complete all their goals would not be able to unlock the exit gates or escape. Even if they went to the exit, the Entity would block their path. This means that Survivors could no longer be carried by their team.
• Survivors could work together to accomplish their goals, or they could choose to focus on their own goals. Naturally, this carries the risk that those who have not completed their goals will not be able to escape if the Killer catches them working together, but it also means that they can complete their goals more quickly if they work together. However, Survivors would not be able to complete each others' objectives unless the person to whom the objectives belong is working on it at the same time.
• Auras of all the objectives would be visible to the Killer, color-coded to differentiate between what each Survivor has to do. For example, say there are 3 things each Survivor must do; this means there will be 3 objectives with the same color, another 3 objectives with a different color, and so on.

I know this seems like a lot of work, but I think it'd be worth it in the end. I know you guys (devs) read this, and I know you rarely reply, but if I could get some feedback, I'd appreciate it.

When I read rework survivor gameplay I already follow this, god damn survivor is boring now

Orion

@alivebydeadight said:
When I read rework survivor gameplay I already follow this, god damn survivor is boring now

But what did you think of the specifics of the idea? Any point you didn't like?

Wahara

I quite like it. An extra objective has been tossed around for a while now, but survivor specific objectives is an interesting twist that I enjoy. The only issue is if the objective is mandatory for survivors it will be interpreted as a nerf and the survivor base will protest.

At any rate, an extra objective, optional or mandatory (likely the former) is definitely looking like the best solution at the moment. Even if it's not a "fix" it would make things drastically better.

Orion

@Wahara said:
I quite like it. An extra objective has been tossed around for a while now, but survivor specific objectives is an interesting twist that I enjoy. The only issue is if the objective is mandatory for survivors it will be interpreted as a nerf and the survivor base will protest.

I think the Survivors who coast on the work of other Survivors will complain, but you can't deny that everyone is pissed off when they do all the work and die because the others aren't pulling their weight. This idea would put an end to that.

alivebydeadight

@Orion said:

@alivebydeadight said:
When I read rework survivor gameplay I already follow this, god damn survivor is boring now

But what did you think of the specifics of the idea? Any point you didn't like?

there actually is not, they are all great, I am tired of seeing gen rushing and tired of seeing rank 20s getting carried by higher ranks

Orion

@alivebydeadight said:

@Orion said:

@alivebydeadight said:
When I read rework survivor gameplay I already follow this, god damn survivor is boring now

But what did you think of the specifics of the idea? Any point you didn't like?

there actually is not, they are all great, I am tired of seeing gen rushing and tired of seeing rank 20s getting carried by higher ranks

Let's see if this gets enough support to also get the devs' attention.

@powerbats @Tsulan @Vietfox @Master @Wolf74 @Raccoon @Blueberry I summon thee and request thine opinions.

alivebydeadight

@Orion said:

@alivebydeadight said:

@Orion said:

@alivebydeadight said:
When I read rework survivor gameplay I already follow this, god damn survivor is boring now

But what did you think of the specifics of the idea? Any point you didn't like?

there actually is not, they are all great, I am tired of seeing gen rushing and tired of seeing rank 20s getting carried by higher ranks

Let's see if this gets enough support to also get the devs' attention.

@powerbats @Tsulan @Vietfox @Master @Wolf74 @Raccoon @Blueberry I summon thee and request thine opinions.

Me hoping they notice this

Orion

@alivebydeadight said:
Me hoping they notice this

They'll read it. The question is, will they try to implement it?

alivebydeadight

@Orion said:

@alivebydeadight said:
Me hoping they notice this

They'll read it. The question is, will they try to implement it?

I hope, its a good idea on both sides and there wont be a version of butterfly effect anymore if it does come or they try to implement it

Tsulan

I'm a dev?! Cool!

I think gas tanks and parts to repair would fit nicely. 

Orion

@Tsulan said:
I'm a dev?! Cool!

No, but I only know, like, three dev accounts. I also wanted to get the players' support on this.

Tsulan

Orion said:

@Tsulan said:
I'm a dev?! Cool!

No, but I only know, like, three dev accounts. I also wanted to get the players' support on this.

 
I once had the idea, that every survivor should have a unique bonus or power. And that there wouldn't be more than 1 survivor of that kind allowed. 
But since everyone mains claudette...

RinWaifu

Genrush mean survivors are doing they only objective, to slow down the game Survivors needs secondary objectives that's give a reward equals to the main objective, i think increasing bloodpoints gain for breaking totems would be a good start, make the solo players' success almost completely independent of their team's ability, this is already a thing dude, if you teammates are potatoes just do 2 gens by yourself and go for the hatch, one problem with potatoes survivors, are the fact they don't know how to gather information during the trial, and because of that they do bad decisions and ######### up the game, snowball effect is fine, that just mean some of the sides isn't playing that well.
Give a extra objective for everyone is interesting but your ideas are bad af, because people would just let other survivors die so they can complete they objectives faster and escape, the core mechanic for survivors is the fact that working together they can have a equal strengh to the killer, by making people able to escape alone will just break the core of survivor gameplay

Blueberry

@Orion said:

@alivebydeadight said:

@Orion said:

@alivebydeadight said:
When I read rework survivor gameplay I already follow this, god damn survivor is boring now

But what did you think of the specifics of the idea? Any point you didn't like?

there actually is not, they are all great, I am tired of seeing gen rushing and tired of seeing rank 20s getting carried by higher ranks

Let's see if this gets enough support to also get the devs' attention.

@powerbats @Tsulan @Vietfox @Master @Wolf74 @Raccoon @Blueberry I summon thee and request thine opinions.

I actually like your ideas and agree with the goals you put forth for it.

That said, this would basically be an entirely new game with these changes or at least a new game mode. Like you mentioned this would be quite a lot of work for them to undertake and based on their past commitments/times they took for changes/knowing their rough team size, I think this would be out of their reach for consideration. Even if they did undertake it, this would be a beginning to end like year and a half undertaking for them at least. So I see the issue less with the changes and more just that I think it's too much for them.

I think that rather than looking for the best solutions to the games issues it's more of looking for a balance between best and least amount of work needed.

Orion

@RinWaifu said:
Give a extra objective for everyone is interesting but your ideas are bad af, because people would just let other survivors die so they can complete they objectives faster and escape, the core mechanic for survivors is the fact that working together they can have a equal strengh to the killer, by making people able to escape alone will just break the core of survivor gameplay

That's just another day for solo players, especially if they're in the same lobby as SWF.

RinWaifu

@Orion said:

@RinWaifu said:
Give a extra objective for everyone is interesting but your ideas are bad af, because people would just let other survivors die so they can complete they objectives faster and escape, the core mechanic for survivors is the fact that working together they can have a equal strengh to the killer, by making people able to escape alone will just break the core of survivor gameplay

That's just another day for solo players, especially if they're in the same lobby as SWF.

Yeah, but that is a problem with SWF players not the game itself

Orion

@Blueberry said:
I think that rather than looking for the best solutions to the games issues it's more of looking for a balance between best and least amount of work needed.

But here's the thing - most of this stuff already exists.
At the moment, we have four potential objectives for Survivors in the form of interactible items that do not require perks: The Pustulas from the Halloween event, totems, chests, and generators. The programming is already (mostly) done - interactions, spawning rules, etc.. They'd just need to add the visual part (notifications, models, auras in different colors) and figure out which sets of goals would be fair.

Orion

@RinWaifu said:

@Orion said:

@RinWaifu said:
Give a extra objective for everyone is interesting but your ideas are bad af, because people would just let other survivors die so they can complete they objectives faster and escape, the core mechanic for survivors is the fact that working together they can have a equal strengh to the killer, by making people able to escape alone will just break the core of survivor gameplay

That's just another day for solo players, especially if they're in the same lobby as SWF.

Yeah, but that is a problem with SWF players not the game itself

Note how that's a problem even if you're not in a lobby with SWF. Also note how Survivors can still work together if they choose to; it's just that you're no longer depending on your team to escape.

Master

@Orion said:
@Janick I had an idea that could very well solve the majority of frustrations from both sides. It would require hard work from the devs, but I truly believe that if the game is to be truly fixed for both sides, it needs more than band-aid solutions like Hex: Ruin. The game needs to become more complex so that it can be properly balanced.

This idea would:

• Revamp the Survivor gameplay to make it less boring.
• Put SWF closer to solo players.
• Make the solo players' success almost completely independent of their team's ability, thus eliminating the need for the hatch.
• Make Killer less frustrating.
• Eliminate the so-called "death efficiency problem"/snowball effect.
• Eliminate genrush.

The idea is simple: give each Survivor something different to do during the trial. Let me explain:

• Each Survivor would have a unique set of goals they'd need to complete in order to escape. This could replace generators entirely or add to them.
• Survivors who successfully completed all their goals would be able to unlock the exit gates and escape the trial.
• Survivors who did not complete all their goals would not be able to unlock the exit gates or escape. Even if they went to the exit, the Entity would block their path. This means that Survivors could no longer be carried by their team.
• Survivors could work together to accomplish their goals, or they could choose to focus on their own goals. Naturally, this carries the risk that those who have not completed their goals will not be able to escape if the Killer catches them working together, but it also means that they can complete their goals more quickly if they work together. However, Survivors would not be able to complete each others' objectives unless the person to whom the objectives belong is working on it at the same time.
• Auras of all the objectives would be visible to the Killer, color-coded to differentiate between what each Survivor has to do. For example, say there are 3 things each Survivor must do; this means there will be 3 objectives with the same color, another 3 objectives with a different color, and so on.

I know this seems like a lot of work, but I think it'd be worth it in the end. I know you guys (devs) read this, and I know you rarely reply, but if I could get some feedback, I'd appreciate it.

Sure, the new goals need to be more specific of course, but gernally I agree. I always fall asleep when playing survivor. The gen mechanic is an insult for the survivors intelligenec (but maybe they like it that way, I dont know)

Blueberry

@Orion said:

@Blueberry said:
I think that rather than looking for the best solutions to the games issues it's more of looking for a balance between best and least amount of work needed.

But here's the thing - most of this stuff already exists.
At the moment, we have four potential objectives for Survivors in the form of interactible items that do not require perks: The Pustulas from the Halloween event, totems, chests, and generators. The programming is already (mostly) done - interactions, spawning rules, etc.. They'd just need to add the visual part (notifications, models, auras in different colors) and figure out which sets of goals would be fair.

They'd probably be a little hesitant about entirely changing the game that much. That's a lot of risk for an already successful game to change it completely. We'd probably be more likely to convince them to use your ideas for an alternate game mode than change the base one.

Don't get me wrong it would be nice if they did, I just can't see them even considering that much. They've said themselves on the streams how they are extremely hesitant about making big changes to how the base game plays since they want it preserved.

Orion

@Blueberry said:

@Orion said:

@Blueberry said:
I think that rather than looking for the best solutions to the games issues it's more of looking for a balance between best and least amount of work needed.

But here's the thing - most of this stuff already exists.
At the moment, we have four potential objectives for Survivors in the form of interactible items that do not require perks: The Pustulas from the Halloween event, totems, chests, and generators. The programming is already (mostly) done - interactions, spawning rules, etc.. They'd just need to add the visual part (notifications, models, auras in different colors) and figure out which sets of goals would be fair.

They'd probably be a little hesitant about entirely changing the game that much. That's a lot of risk for an already successful game to change it completely. We'd probably be more likely to convince them to use your ideas for an alternate game mode than change the base one.

Don't get me wrong it would be nice if they did, I just can't see them even considering that much. They've said themselves on the streams how they are extremely hesitant about making big changes to how the base game plays since they want it preserved.

To be fair, although I call it "a complete overhaul", it's just changing the way objectives work. I know they're hesitant to make big changes, but that unwillingness is bad for the longevity of the game. If new content plays exactly like the old content, it won't make a difference.

Shad03

@Tsulan said:
I'm a dev?! Cool!

I think gas tanks and parts to repair would fit nicely. 

I have noticed you and a few others are a constant in this community, thus making you a (in my opinion) more known member of this community. I think it's cool that some users here are that well known.

And as for the original topic on hand, I do enjoy the ideas and I pray the devs do put the ideas to the game. Also gas tanks give me L4D flashbacks.

Vietfox

I actually like this, but i don't think devs will change how the game works at this point. If they don't want to change it then they should add it as a new game mode, i think this game needs them desperately.
I would like to see this added along with the hardcore mode proposed by @Tsulan

Kind_Lemon

Your idea was at one point, based off of my inferences and quotes from the developers, what the game was meant to be. You had Dwights who worked on gens and let others perform better around him while Jakes took care of all the survivors’ safety by sabotaging hooks and making traps ineffective. Then Claudette would come around and heal anyone who got injured. Items were to help each character get done what they were built to get done. 
Then Meg came along, and she was the one who was good at escaping and running away from the killer. Teachables were harder to get because levelling took longer, so characters stayed mainly with what they were built to do. 

It didn’t turn out that way exactly as the devs were probably hoping. Self care surprisingly allowed Jakes and Dwights and Megs to not need a Claudette in the team, and the huges nerf to sanotage made Jakes useless. Subsequently, the complaints about levelling made it so that survivors were all just reskins of one another, all with relatively little to do in the way of objectives. I would prefer the devs spend their time finding a better way to reinstitute their original ideas rather than implement something completely different.

Orion

@Kind_Lemon said:
I would prefer the devs spend their time finding a better way to reinstitute their original ideas rather than implement something completely different.

If, as you say, this is how the game was meant to be played, then this is the way to reinstitute their ideas. You can't greatly affect how the game is played without also greatly changing the game itself.

Raccoon

I wish the Devs had some degree of transparency with an effort towards open communication when it comes to implementing important changes like extra objectives and end game changes.

When's Freddy's rework and what does it entail? Who goddamn knows.
When's DS rework and what does it entail? Who goddamn knows.
What's being done to add survivor gameplay variety and extend the early/mid-game? Who goddamn knows.
When's the endgame rework (I'm 100% certain Hatch will remain as is)? Who goddamn knows.

Blueberry

@Orion said:

@Blueberry said:

@Orion said:

@Blueberry said:
I think that rather than looking for the best solutions to the games issues it's more of looking for a balance between best and least amount of work needed.

But here's the thing - most of this stuff already exists.
At the moment, we have four potential objectives for Survivors in the form of interactible items that do not require perks: The Pustulas from the Halloween event, totems, chests, and generators. The programming is already (mostly) done - interactions, spawning rules, etc.. They'd just need to add the visual part (notifications, models, auras in different colors) and figure out which sets of goals would be fair.

They'd probably be a little hesitant about entirely changing the game that much. That's a lot of risk for an already successful game to change it completely. We'd probably be more likely to convince them to use your ideas for an alternate game mode than change the base one.

Don't get me wrong it would be nice if they did, I just can't see them even considering that much. They've said themselves on the streams how they are extremely hesitant about making big changes to how the base game plays since they want it preserved.

To be fair, although I call it "a complete overhaul", it's just changing the way objectives work. I know they're hesitant to make big changes, but that unwillingness is bad for the longevity of the game. If new content plays exactly like the old content, it won't make a difference.

I agree, it is bad for the longevity of the game.

Bravo0413

I feel they would make this s new game mode really because the devs cant let go of their baby... I love this idea and am really interested in hearing about what sort of objectives could be made for the survivors.. because yea....... survivor gameplay is boring AF unless you're with friends 

powerbats

I've always liked the idea of gas/parts but also you'd have limited carrying capacity and the killer couldn't Franklins you. You'd need some of both so that way if one person gets killed they don't die with the needed skills so to speak.

You could also make it so that they can carry more stuff but the more they carry the slower they move so that way if they decide to carry everything they need they'd have to basically stealth back to the gen. If they tried to run they'd be slower but also much noisier and would drop gas/parts on the ground.

But like you removing gens and making it a personal unique set of objectives would make it much more interesting for the individual. There wouldn't still be the boredom of sitting there holding M1 for 80 seconds or so after getting your secondary parts.

@Orion I just thought of something after reading your alternate objective idea.

How about instead of generators and gas/parts we spice it up by changing it to the following.(this is seat of the pants atm but has possibilities)

You'd still be farming stuff like the Pustula Petals type thing but instead of filling a vial and then working ona gen you'd be farming offerings/whatever. There'd be bonfires or say totems around the map that you could make offerings at.

The image is a an idea of what it might look like and there'd still be 7 totems aka generators in this case that you'd need to give offerings to. Once you give each totem enough offerings you've appeased the entity or given it's counterpart power and that totem is now empowered.

Once you empower 5 totems the gates are now powered or in this gates mystical gates are now empowered and can be channeled to be opened.

The killer however can go around and kick offerings and make some get destroyed and in this case it wouldn't decay progress. Because there'd be a set amount needed to empower that totem so lets say for example it need 100 offerings.

Each survivor can only carry 5 offerings at a time so it's 20 trips in total and they have to roam the map to find them. The spawn locations could be set say x amount (10) to both prevent camping but also make survivors move around the map.

Now each offering location would have a set amount before it went on cooldown to prevent it from being spam farmed. Like say by the everyday boogeyman 4 man swf where 3 simply farm one pile endlessly while the looper kites on opposite side of map.

So each pile could be farmed by each survivor individually x time before the offering pile either goes on cd or disappears. The issue with it disappearing is then it becomes super easy for the killer because they could do a 3 gen strat or in this case totem strat but also a 3 offering pile strat at the same time.

For that reason a cool down timer on each offering location would be better as was proved by the Pustules since the plant might be drained before you even got there. If you were only allowed to say harvest 5 offerings per pile before it went on a cooldown timer you'd have to go to the next offering location.

To help the killer the offering pile would change colors similar to say regression so they'd know how recently it'd ben harvested and when it's likely to come back up for farming. For the totems they'd change color at each stage of the offering as well.

NoShinyPony

So what should the 4 different objectives for survivors be? The community and the devs have been thinking about introducing 1 additional objective for the survivors (see Halloween Petula Event which was an experiment). The problem is: A fitting objective hasn't been found since it's not an easy issue. If you are not asking for 1 but 4 objectives, then I'll ask you: What kind of objectives?

And another point: While you are getting chased you can't do the objective. With the current system it's not a problem as the other survs are doing the team objective. But how is a survivor supposed to do their personal objective if they are getting chased?

Orion

@NoShinyPony said:
So what should the 4 different objectives for survivors be? The community and the devs have been thinking about introducing 1 additional objective for the survivors (see Halloween Petula Event which was an experiment). The problem is: A fitting objective hasn't been found since it's not an easy issue. If you are not asking for 1 but 4 objectives, then I'll ask you: What kind of objectives?

And another point: While you are getting chased you can't do the objective. With the current system it's not a problem as the other survs are doing the team objective. But how is a survivor supposed to do their personal objective if they are getting chased?

There are already five interactible items programmed into the game (I said four in an earlier comment, but I forgot one): pustulas, chests, totems, Jigsaw boxes, and generators. Most of the programming is already done. They have spawn rules, interactions, etc., all finished. All that's needed are some new models for new goals, using the same rules as the current ones. Hell, they could even be a random assortment of these items.

If a Survivor is getting chased, then they can't do their personal objective. They'll have to actually win the chase, or avoid getting into one in the first place.
You don't think it's a problem that being chased is currently not a major concern for the Survivor?

Raptorrotas

While it would freshen up the current gameplay and probably add some depth to survivor play, i think it might be overwhelming for (freshmen) killers to suddenly have their vision filled with a rainbow of different auras for every survivors objectives.
heh, might look like a good christmas decoration.

It'd probably be already possible to assign a random quest at the start of a trial thats somehow displayed to the survivor. Something along the lines of:
-" find X pieces of a ITEM NAME HERE and assemble it at the NEW SPAWNED INTERACTIBLE to gain 1 ITEM NAME HERE after the trial.

One problem i see would be new interactibles actually BLOCKING access to each other, if the spawn logic crams them all in a place, ive had it happening that a chest denied me access to a hook right next to it, as killer.
Another thing to be wary of, is that maybe the devs add those objects, but theyll then waste away as only optional objects for dailies or a quick fix of bp (pustules or chests), without impact on the actual survivors goal of doing 5 gens and escaping.

I myself often thought about survivor "traitor" perks to incentive survivors to actually work against the "we are all best friends forever" meta gameplay. Obviously thats not whats being discussed here, but its a similar shift in gameplay that'd be happening.

Sorry if my post doesnt follow some sort of coherent line of thought ;P

Wahara

@Orion said:

@NoShinyPony said:
So what should the 4 different objectives for survivors be? The community and the devs have been thinking about introducing 1 additional objective for the survivors (see Halloween Petula Event which was an experiment). The problem is: A fitting objective hasn't been found since it's not an easy issue. If you are not asking for 1 but 4 objectives, then I'll ask you: What kind of objectives?

And another point: While you are getting chased you can't do the objective. With the current system it's not a problem as the other survs are doing the team objective. But how is a survivor supposed to do their personal objective if they are getting chased?

There are already five interactible items programmed into the game (I said four in an earlier comment, but I forgot one): pustulas, chests, totems, Jigsaw boxes, and generators. Most of the programming is already done. They have spawn rules, interactions, etc., all finished. All that's needed are some new models for new goals, using the same rules as the current ones. Hell, they could even be a random assortment of these items.

If a Survivor is getting chased, then they can't do their personal objective. They'll have to actually win the chase, or avoid getting into one in the first place.
You don't think it's a problem that being chased is currently not a major concern for the Survivor?

I don't know how I feel about the same rules, unless you meant something different from what I'm thinking. I would prefer the new objective actually be somewhat interesting that requires a bit of thought on part of the survivor than merely pressing a button. If it's just another item they have to walk up to and press R1, then ######### it, don't bother.

Something along the lines of:
-" find X pieces of a ITEM NAME HERE and assemble it at the NEW SPAWNED INTERACTIBLE to gain 1 ITEM NAME HERE after the trial.

I was thinking something more a long the lines of this. In the discord, I discussed with some people the possibility of searching for tattered pieces of Hugo's journal, that you have to find throughout the map, and each piece has a hint/riddle as to the other pieces location. It doesn't have to be exactly that of course, but something that actually makes you use your brain a little bit would be nice.

Orion

@Wahara said:
I don't know how I feel about the same rules, unless you meant something different from what I'm thinking. I would prefer the new objective actually be somewhat interesting that requires a bit of thought on part of the survivor than merely pressing a button. If it's just another item they have to walk up to and press R1, then [BAD WORD] it, don't bother.

Spawn rules, dude. As in, their spawn locations, minimum amount, proximity, etc.. All that stuff's already coded into the game.
EDIT: Also, what kind of interactions were you expecting there to be?

NoShinyPony

@Orion said:
pustulas, chests, totems, Jigsaw boxes, and generators

When I play survivor, it doesn't matter to me if I sit on a gen or totem or chest... I sit down and press a button. If you approach the topic from that direction, you could just give the survs their personal gen they would have to repair in order to escape. I'm no fan of that idea.

NoShinyPony

@Orion said:
You don't think it's a problem that being chased is currently not a major concern for the Survivor?

Not at all. The chase is the fun part of the game. When I play killer, I want to chase survivors. I don't want to look for them in every corner, check lockers... And I don't want free hits or a simple chase that ends after 8 seconds. I want a nice chase with mindgames and when I finally down the survivor, I want it to have been a good chase between two good players.

It's the same when I play surv. I want to get chased and not hide the entire time or play gen simulator.

After all, that's why I play DbD. It's all about the chase feature. You don't have that with other asymmetrical horror games.

Orion

@NoShinyPony said:

@Orion said:
pustulas, chests, totems, Jigsaw boxes, and generators

When I play survivor, it doesn't matter to me if I sit on a gen or totem or chest... I sit down and press a button. If you approach the topic from that direction, you could just give the survs their personal gen they would have to repair in order to escape. I'm no fan of that idea.

The interaction has to be initiated and controlled somehow. What were you expecting, exactly?

@NoShinyPony said:

@Orion said:
You don't think it's a problem that being chased is currently not a major concern for the Survivor?

Not at all. The chase is the fun part of the game. When I play killer, I want to chase survivors. I don't want to look for them in every corner, check lockers... And I don't want free hits or a simple chase that ends after 8 seconds. I want a nice chase with mindgames and when I finally down the survivor, I want it to have been a good chase between two good players.

It's the same when I play surv. I want to get chased and not hide the entire time or play gen simulator.

After all, that's why I play DbD. It's all about the chase feature. You don't have that with other asymmetrical horror games.

I strongly disagree. I think that if the weak role doesn't see the presence of the strong role as a concern, that means something is fundamentally broken in your asymmetrical game.

NoShinyPony

@Orion said:
The interaction has to be initiated and controlled somehow. What were you expecting, exactly?

You didn't get my point. I mean: When it's not a group task but a personal task for each surv, you could just assign each surv to their personal gen. You don't have to bother with making totems or chests an additional objective.

@Orion said:
I strongly disagree. I think that if the weak role doesn't see the presence of the strong role as a concern, that means something is fundamentally broken in your asymmetrical game.

We play that game hundreds, thousands of hours. There is no horror anymore (if there ever has been). And it is asymmetrical. 1, 2 or 3 survs won't win against the killer. It has to be a group of 4.

As a surv, you won't win a chase against a good killer. You will go down. It's just a matter of time.

If the amount of chase time would be reduced and instead the focus of the game would switch to survivors hiding, there would be no reason for me to prefer DbD over other horror games.

Orion

@NoShinyPony said:

@Orion said:
The interaction has to be initiated and controlled somehow. What were you expecting, exactly?

You didn't get my point. I mean: When it's not a group task but a personal task for each surv, you could just assign each surv to their personal gen. You don't have to bother with making totems or chests an additional objective.

@Orion said:
I strongly disagree. I think that if the weak role doesn't see the presence of the strong role as a concern, that means something is fundamentally broken in your asymmetrical game.

We play that game hundreds, thousands of hours. There is no horror anymore (if there ever has been). And it is asymmetrical. 1, 2 or 3 survs won't win against the killer. It has to be a group of 4.

As a surv, you won't win a chase against a good killer. You will go down. It's just a matter of time.

If the amount of chase time would be reduced and instead the focus of the game would switch to survivors hiding, there would be no reason for me to prefer DbD over other horror games.

My point is that any variety would be welcomed at this point, even if the interaction is performed in the same way.

It's not about horror, it's about being a threat. If being chased is not seen as a concern, then that means the Killer is not perceived to be a threat, which, in turn, means that the game's balance is lopsided.

NoShinyPony

@Orion said:
If being chased is not seen as a concern, then that means the Killer is not perceived to be a threat, which, in turn, means that the game's balance is lopsided.

But being chased is a threat. If survivors aren't good enough and get downed too fast, they will lose the match.

If you are a survivor and getting chased, you are under pressure to last as long as possible before you get downed. (And with a good killer, you WILL get downed.) The thrill of the chase is the fun part of the game.

And isn't it the same for killer? Is the chase not what makes this game fun for you? Would you prefer helpless survivors that will get down within a couple of seconds after you found them?

Kind_Lemon

NoShinyPony said:

@Orion said:
If being chased is not seen as a concern, then that means the Killer is not perceived to be a threat, which, in turn, means that the game's balance is lopsided.

But being chased is a threat. If survivors aren't good enough and get downed too fast, they will lose the match.

If you are a survivor and getting chased, you are under pressure to last as long as possible before you get downed. (And with a good killer, you WILL get downed.) The thrill of the chase is the fun part of the game.

And isn't it the same for killer? Is the chase not what makes this game fun for you? Would you prefer helpless survivors that will get down within a couple of seconds after you found them?

As a killer, the most fun I have is not in chase, but when survivors step in my traps, trigger my traps because the survivors weren’t being careful, and removing (through Hex: The Third Seal) the assistance survivors get from auras. Those times are when I get a thrill.

NoShinyPony

@Kind_Lemon said:
As a killer, the most fun I have is not in chase, but when survivors step in my traps, trigger my traps because the survivors weren’t being careful, and removing (through Hex: The Third Seal) the assistance survivors get from auras.

Okay, that's sounds like you have a favourite killer. I love the chase, you love it when survivors walk into your traps.

But you probably agree that playing against super stealthy survivors is not a lot of fun when you spend 80% of your time with simply looking for them everywhere?

Are there any killers that dislike chasing?

Orion

@NoShinyPony said:

@Orion said:
If being chased is not seen as a concern, then that means the Killer is not perceived to be a threat, which, in turn, means that the game's balance is lopsided.

But being chased is a threat. If survivors aren't good enough and get downed too fast, they will lose the match.

If you are a survivor and getting chased, you are under pressure to last as long as possible before you get downed. (And with a good killer, you WILL get downed.) The thrill of the chase is the fun part of the game.

And isn't it the same for killer? Is the chase not what makes this game fun for you? Would you prefer helpless survivors that will get down within a couple of seconds after you found them?

You can't simultaneously say that getting chased is not a major concern and that it is a threat. They're mutually exclusive concepts.

NoShinyPony

@Orion said:
You can't simultaneously say that getting chased is not a major concern and that it is a threat. They're mutually exclusive concepts.

There is no use in getting rabulistic instead of focussing on arguments.
You could tell your opionion on whether the chase is what makes this game fun for you, for example.

se05239

@Raccoon said:
When's Freddy's rework and what does it entail? Who goddamn knows.
When's DS rework and what does it entail? Who goddamn knows.
What's being done to add survivor gameplay variety and extend the early/mid-game? Who goddamn knows.
When's the endgame rework (I'm 100% certain Hatch will remain as is)? Who goddamn knows.

All four would inconvenience survivors so that's a no-go. The devs cannot risk that. The majority is too important.

Orion

@NoShinyPony said:

@Orion said:
You can't simultaneously say that getting chased is not a major concern and that it is a threat. They're mutually exclusive concepts.

There is no use in getting rabulistic instead of focussing on arguments.
You could tell your opionion on whether the chase is what makes this game fun for you, for example.

Or you could stop pretending that you're not making contradictory statements and make up your mind as to whether or not chases are dangerous.

Incarnate

@Tsulan said:
I once had the idea, that every survivor should have a unique bonus or power. And that there wouldn't be more than 1 survivor of that kind allowed. 
But since everyone mains claudette...

I had a similar idea, and personally I find it bad there can be several of the same victim character in any given trial.

Incarnate

@Kind_Lemon said:
Your idea was at one point, based off of my inferences and quotes from the developers, what the game was meant to be. You had Dwights who worked on gens and let others perform better around him while Jakes took care of all the survivors’ safety by sabotaging hooks and making traps ineffective. Then Claudette would come around and heal anyone who got injured. Items were to help each character get done what they were built to get done. 
Then Meg came along, and she was the one who was good at escaping and running away from the killer. Teachables were harder to get because levelling took longer, so characters stayed mainly with what they were built to do. 

It didn’t turn out that way exactly as the devs were probably hoping. Self care surprisingly allowed Jakes and Dwights and Megs to not need a Claudette in the team, and the huges nerf to sanotage made Jakes useless. Subsequently, the complaints about levelling made it so that survivors were all just reskins of one another, all with relatively little to do in the way of objectives. I would prefer the devs spend their time finding a better way to reinstitute their original ideas rather than implement something completely different.

The main problem here is that they've made it possible for the other characters to assume the intended purpose of other character, through teachables, where it really doesn't matter how long it takes to get those teachable, eventually people gets them. With teachables in the game it will be damn difficult to get it back to being anything like what they intended it to be, and they can't just go about and remove teachables from the game, because that would severely piss of the community. One way around this would be to introduce classes, in much the same way as there are perks, but rework the perks to work in conjuction with classes, where I think the best way would be making them have a primary perk requirement, this would make classes much better resemble the theme of the intended characters. Then put a limit on the amount of each specific classes there can be in a trial. Each class would give it's own benefits, very similar to what they intended every character to be about. Something like that could work, so for instance you could have a team consisting of a leader, healer, saboteur and runner.

To make a few examples, which are just ideas to work with:
Leader
Perk Requirement: Leader
Benefit: Can be activated for a set duration to temporarily increase the values of Leader. Cooldown: X amount of time.
Drawback: Prohibits others from using the perk leader in the group.

Runner
Perk Requirement: Sprint Burst or Balanced Landing
Benefit: Can be activated to remove X amount of seconds from exhaustion status effect: Cooldown: X amount of time.
Drawback: Prohibits others from using the same perk used for the requirement.

Saboteur
Perk Requirement: Saboteur
Benefit: Can be activated to greatly increase the rate at which skill checks are triggered when sabotaging: Cooldown: X amount of time.
Drawback: Prohibits others from using the same perk used for the requirement.

Healer
Perk Requirement: Botany Knowledge or self-care.
Benefit: Can be activated to greatly increase the rate at which skill checks are triggered when healing others: Cooldown: X amount of time.
Drawback: Prohibits others from using the same perk used for the requirement.

Likewise for killers, something similar could be made, but obviously should be a bit different as killers already have powers that makes them unique. But adding in that variance certainly wouldn't hurt.

Tsulan

Incarnate said:

@Tsulan said:
I once had the idea, that every survivor should have a unique bonus or power. And that there wouldn't be more than 1 survivor of that kind allowed. 
But since everyone mains claudette...

I had a similar idea, and personally I find it bad there can be several of the same victim character in any given trial.

It would allow more varied matches. Not only quadettes

powerbats

I like @Incarnate 's idea of uniques similar to how they're unique already but if you go that route Claudette would be a huge choice since Self Care. Throw in sWf and they all take the best unique perk combo's possible and you'd have real issues.

The advantage to the perks being teachable is you don't basically just have all of 1 character but people can pick that bright Nea or that buffed David. If you made 1 perk unique to each character the benefits would have to be better than what they are now but now too good to where it's a must.