Windows of opportunity (An irrefutable argument for a nerf)
Due to the buffs of this perk, using it in the game turns the gameplay into the following:
P - Pallet
Survivors don't even try to palletlooping, they just camp and drop whatever they have. And you know, I don’t mind, sometimes I even stupidly break everything, of course I can beat, but I want to show the survivor in every match that this is not a strategy and how boring it is and it won’t help to win, he will just leave the team without pallets.
Such gameplay is very boring, yes I win, but there is no mindgame, the survivor does not need to think or be afraid, he just goes into the light
And here is the final counter argument.
After the release of the Binding of Kin chapter, a hotfix was released in which Approisal was nerfed with a note.
Therefore, I have a question, why do survivors receive pallet auras immediately and go into the light like moths, while not studying the map?
Comments
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Firstly, I don't understand why the appraisal thing is valid supporting evidence to nerf WoO . Let alone one that makes it 'irrefutable'.
Secondly, WoO is not about not studying maps - everyone knows there is often a palate in a cluster of walls or roughly where a window will be, but rather knowing what is there to use and what isn't at a distance and chaining useful tiles together to take up as much of the killer's time as possible while gens are being done.
This is still entirely possible without the perk and good loopers do not even need it. Contrary to your statement that you don't need to mindgame with it I would completely disagree and say unless you can effectively mind-game the killer it's can be a completely wasted perk slot. Mind gaming isn't about knowing where a palate is; it's about keeping the killer in an appropriate place so they cannot hit you and some killers are excellent at negating this whether you have WoO or not. In fact, I would say sometimes survivors can be so focused on their goal it makes it very easy for the killer to telegraph what they're going to do and make it work in their favour. Most killers don't even bother to break palates anymore which goes to show how impactful WoO actually is. (Edit: Also, not be disrespectful, but if your games genuinely are consistently like the image above then perhaps you need to work on impriving your killer mind game)
But my main point is... WoO is principally used to waste your time - if it's boring for you then it's achieved it's goal. If you don't enjoy the chase then don't commit to it and go and pressure gens or down survivors who cannot loop as well.
Thirdly , "yes I win" is pretty much a iron clad reason refute your call of an ner . "I win, but not quick enough" isn't a valid reason to nerf perks.
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I was lured in with the promise of an irrefutable argument, and I'm a little disappointed.
I'm not sure what citing Appraisal is meant to achieve here. Surely that actually supports the current version of Windows, right? Because survivors aren't sticking in the same loop to make the most of it, they're moving around the map to chain together all the pallets and windows that they possibly can. Whether you like that gameplay loop or not, if you want to use Appraisal's nerf as a metric, then that metric points towards the current Windows being totally fine.
(I don't really think you should use Appraisal as a metric since they're very different perks, but still.)
Honestly, I just don't really see the point in nerfing Windows. Either the stuff they can see is problematic for them to use, or it isn't; whether they have auras or just a good working knowledge of how maps spawn should be irrelevant to that topic. At best, you'd be saying that broken map design is fine if survivors can't see it and might not know about it, and I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment.
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I like windows at is it. Aside from slugging builds it being in the meta is the only thing that gives Blindness value.
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Not everything needs a nerf just because survivors like it. I kill survivors with windows EZ
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The issue with windows is an issue of map design not the perk.
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No nerf is justified. Is a great noobie perk for learning pallet spawns and loops, and vets still get value out of it for both seeing what rng are in tiles around them, and for seeing what resources have been used or not. But by no means is it OP.
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As others have pointd out; your putting the info of Appraisal and your picture of the movement result of WoO together suggests the perk does exactly what it is supposed to do: make survivors move around the map.
That being said. If you have a survivor running that way with WoO you should have pretty decent chances at getting at least a 2k if the others aren't running a real genrush build (I don't mean one prove and a TB with some charges. I mean prove, fully stacked TBs with BTL/Streetwise, potentially with BNP etc.), or the map has a bazillion pallets while you're playing a killer who can't deal with pallets. Because once they used all those pallets up and you eventually down them any subsequent surv you chase is in a giant deadzone and should be very easy downs.
Personally, I do like to run windows - in soloQ to avoid running into a deadzone cause I don't know where my teamies already looped. And in swf cause we're chatting all the time and I usually don't pay much attention to the game, so having WoO is lazy mode when it comes to moving around the map. Not like I play some sweaty build where I need the perkslot for something more useful anyway 😂 (and trust me: there are way more useful perks).
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Last time I heard 1,2,3 - buffed bleeding. If the survivors know everything, then why do they need this perk? They just don't understand that after destroying all the pallets, they die with the team, they wasted time with the pallets, ok, what will the rest of the team do if they can't use the pallets anymore? They need to learn how to use at least one pallet.
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The reason I remembered the perk is the phrase they wrote that the survivors should inspect the map. What's the point in a perk if the survivors mindlessly walk like zombies on a luminous pallet, even if it illuminates them when they run next to it outside the chase.
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Many blindness addons have a very short period, I tried to play this way.
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I haven't seen players use perks just because they like them. Regarding this perk, I think they use it to leave other players without pallets.
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No, they wrote that the survivors should be moving across the map, not crouching over the same chest and rummaging it again and again. The equivalent for pallets and loops would actually be trying to chain them together, which is what you're describing as the problem with Windows.
The point of the perk is... to show them where to run to next, so they can efficiently chain together loops. Or, alternately, to show you which pallets are already used, which honestly is the more useful part of it imo.
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Yeah, you've gotta use third seal for consistent value. Is it good? No. But it's fun to use it and see 3/4 Windows at the end game.
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It seems that not everyone understood the topic of the post. Nerf not because the perk is strong, nerf because the survivors do not turn on the brain. They don't leave pallets for others and the survivors of my matches die for this reason, many even give up on the hook. Let's take killer perks, one of my favorites is Dissolution, what you need in fact for it to work, you need to hit a survivor and chase, make him drop his pallet and catch it, but if he jumps over it, he may have the Lithe or Dead Hard perk, so I take the Fearmonger and I run after the survivor who just touched the generator. I use a combination of perks and strategy. There is also the Corrupt perk, what does it essentially do? It closes the genes, but does not allow dominating at the beginning of the game and turns off, which makes it possible for us to give a couple of hits, set traps, etc.
A good perk, it's a perk where you need to think, where you need to run across the map for it to work, where you need to perform a function, where you get other abilities nerfed. It's like a take End-fury for killers (There is a good pre-drop strategy against this though).
The conclusion is, my idea is that the perk should only highlight the pallets that you ran through, as if writing them on the map. I'm already silent about the game against Dredge, there are generally like lighthouses on the map.
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If it wasn't a totem, it would be useful, but use it to make the game more attractive for playing such a thing, but if I go for the survivors, a person with this perk (Woo) will come in and the map will go bald
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Why do they need this perk?
Already answered. It helps you to see what is available instead of guessing and hoping - it enhances skills you already have which is what a perk is meant to do.
What's the rest of the team supposed to do if they can't use palates anymore?
Gens. Which if someone is looping effectively enough to use every palate on the map you should be more than capable of doing. Also, mind gaming, Windows, stealth and other perks to give advantages I.e sprint burst, lithe, dead hard, unbreakable, boil over etc. Also let's not pretend that everyone who runs WoO Will instantly pull the palate, because they don't.
Still no reason for a nerf.
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You see, we have come to an agreement that the perk should highlight used pallets. Like I said, survivors have to use their brains. My opinion is that players should play, not perks. The developers have also said more than once that for some things, players still need to use their memory and turn on their brains.
I'm NOT against highlighting part of the pallets, I'm against highlighting everything without studying the map.
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My man, I have no idea why you have it out for WoO. - Is your problem really just that a survivor has the literal perk of not having to memorise half the map in order to be able to loop efficiently?
"Using your brain" in the context of WoO is not remembering where pallets and vaults are but knowing what to do with that information.
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^Exactly. I think we just have different impressions about how the perk works to OP.
But, memorising the map, as the OP seems to want, is both impossible and pointless in any match. Yes, there is some commonality between maps, but they do also have an element of random generation to them too. A palate location in one place on one variation of the map will be in a another place on a different variation.
However, I KNOW as an experienced played roughly where a palate or window should be. WoO just confirms it for me so I don't go to a loop I think I can use, only to realise I cannot - but I still have to be aware roughly of where those loops are when planning my movement from one tile to another as a survivor.
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I did not have "People think Windows is OP" in my 2023 DBD bingo.
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What does Appraisal have to do with WoO, i don't see the connection.
Second it's a good perk yes. But it really doesn't impact Killers, so why nerf it.
If the survivor is good and already knows the map, they can do what a survivor using Windows does and better as they have an extra perk slot.
Also there are perks and add-os that apply blindness, so there is counter play there.
But again, if the survivor is good, the map will destroy the killer not windows.
Also, who uses appraisal, great they made a bad perk worse. The perk is fine, it's a good perk. There are so few good survivor perks
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And with that you nerf one of the best uses of the perk in solo queue, knowing if someone has already dropped a pallet or not.
People just drop pallets in solo queue like there is no tomorrow and i don't see any connection between those people and the use of windows.
The perk is fine, it helps the survivors with constant information but it still on the survivor to use it well as the perk by itself doesn't give you value.
Also there is a perk that shows you dropped pallets, its any means necessary, and that perk has another function and it doesn't have a range limit.
Windows is fine and if you want that version just use any means, you even get a bonus of recycling pallets.
I love any means, i honestly just don't use it more because i like Windows more.
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DBD forums will never cease to surprise me. Can we nerf Sloppy next? I think healing for 60s with Self Care is broken and I don't like it, ergo irrefutable evidence.
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LMAO not the windows nerf posts again for the love of god
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No one is stopping you from creating a post about this, maybe even I will support it, but I will not say a word about the fact that this is a weak perk that does not need to be nerfed or changed.
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And what is the "connection" that the developer said that each with the established meta they will change the perks? In the post that I cited, they nerfed the perk with the words that you need to walk around the map and look for chests, why does this apply to some perks to others, and to weak perks does not apply to strong ones?
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