Isn't it overkill to add standard features only for Survivors?
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Sorry but if you think these changes did ANYTHING to solo players, you are lost.
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Excuse me, but close the distance to what degree if not minuscule/none at all? You would need to take a constant, practically clairvoyant path of least resistance for the entire match, and any sort of tidbit time chunks you'll have "saved" would evaporate with a single stun or blind.
These build up over time because they occur very, very frequently. On an individual basis they won't make much difference, but repeating multiple times per match, on top of the other compounding buffs. You ARE saving time, and over the course of a trial, likely quite a bit of it.
Did you not bring up the time added to gens as a killer buff? I mentioned the hyperfocus/stakeout combination because it subverts the added gen time and exacerbates the issue of ultra fast completion. It impacts the average killer because no human being who consistently plays this game is going to remain a novice, they will inevitably get better/develop game sense over time and adopt the most effective tools available or the "META". Is it not foolhardy as a game dev to leave crazy-strong combinations as they are just because a majority of the player base isn't running riot with them at the moment?
But if this is supposed to be the 'meta', why is it on such a low pick-rate? That's the point: If this is supposed to be so damn effective, why are people not picking this up? I rarely ever see Hyperfocus. The biggest problem I'm seeing for gen speeds is BNP, not Hyperfocus.
Then there's the point that Hyperfocus and Stakeout are perks, which means that the ability to do these gens faster comes at the expense of other things, so that benefit has to be offset against whatever it replaced, unlike the benefits killers got, which were basekit and are flat increases.
Yes, you are. In fact, I'd actually go as far to say that if this is your stance, then you don't possess a hard grasp on the causes behind the 3 primary events that make uninstalling an attractive option for survivors and killers alike, i.e. tunneling, camping and/or hard-slugging.
This is an extremely tired argument, but let's go with it, yet again.
Prolonged exposure to generator efficiency elements that boost completion speed beyond the scope of reason, conditioning killers to jump to desperation tactics early unless playing one of the few top-tier killers quite well.
There is one element that can be considered proliferous, and that's Prove Thyself. And it does not increase gen speeds overall. It can break 3-gens more efficiently, but it doesn't increase survivors' total repair speed. This 'prolonged exposure' is largely rumination. The other day there was a complaint about how many gen repair speed perks are being added, and as multiple people in that thread rightfully pointed out: They all suck. The majority of them are really bad perks. Hyperfocus is the only one that sees any kind of use, and it barely does.
Overabundance of defensive resources and 'second chance' perks inside a high efficiency environment.
I am generally quite tired of the inane use of that buzzterm 'second chance perk' because it's built on total misunderstandings of the game's core principles, but the application here is, admittedly, bloody hilarious.
Because what is the red thread connecting these 'second chance' perks, with the exception of Dead Hard?
They are ALL counter-perks designed to stop camping, tunnelling and slugging. In your argumentation for why people resort to camping, tunnelling and slugging, you mention that the 'overabundance' of perks that counter it are a reason to start employing those tactics.
That does not make sense.
Killers looking at their hud not far from the start of a match, seeing that survivors have 60%+ completion while they merely have 0 - 8.3% completion and effectively going into 'oh s**t mode.'
Another misunderstanding of the game. Once again, only the generators are counted, but when people complain about NOED, it's 'the game isn't over until you're out the exit gate'.
Survivors aren't immune to damage once the fifth gen is completed. The killer isn't incapacitated when the fifth gen is done. Each gen isn't a neat 20% of survivor objectives.
In addition: The speed with which survivors repair generators at the start is a speed they will not attain again at any point in the match after the first chase, if the killer is in any way competent. This makes a flat percentual perspective objectively misinformed.
Necessity is the mother of invention
So is laziness. Tunnelling is fast, easy and efficient. Why wouldn't you tunnel? It is objectively the best way to play! Not to mention that it's a great way to turn bully to someone, and lord knows people on the internet love bullying.
This incredibly optimistic attitude of 'killers only tunnel because they have to' just does not line up with fact. When killers were boosted in 6.1, there was no reduction in tunnelling. Killers objectively got stronger, survivors objectively got weaker, and yet tunnelling continued unabated.
I am sick and tired of this 'woe is me' attitude killers have and the tantrums they throw. The reality behind tunnelling is that it's fast, efficient, easy, and it makes survivors miserable, those are the driving factors behind tunnelling. Anyone that tells you otherwise is just pretending they care about game health when in reality, they just want to demand buffs.
AFTER THIS more strict mechanics can be introduced to make tunneling, camping, and slugging virtually pointless/tactically undesirable.
No. We're not doing this again. Because this exact same promise was floated before 6.1 and then nothing came of it. Roles should reverse this time: FIRST we fix tunnelling/camping/slugging, and THEN we adjust balance.
I'd rather play hook-based matches (with more chases) that feel more fair and fun instead of kill-based matches that mostly feel like a sweating fever dream.
Then stop sweating. Play easier and you'll get easier opponents.
This is all largely irrelevant to the topic at hand though.
"Why are survivors the only ones getting buffed?"
Because the killers already got their buffs back in 6.1. What survivors are getting now is already compensatory. Killers don't get compensation for the compensation survivors got.
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You're looking at a .3 second change and assuming that's the entirety of the buff. It's not the whole picture.
Let's look at what the entire 6.1.0 patch did for a standard M1 hit against a survivor. So, no perks involved here in this at all, this is now base kit (current) compared to an identical situation before 6.1.0:
The survivor gets a burst of speed when hit and moves at 6.6 m/s briefly. Before, this was 2.0 seconds for a total of 13.2m, and currently this is 1.8 seconds, for a total of 11.88m. So the survivor gains 1.32m less distance when hit from before. For a standard 4.6m/s killer, it takes 2.2 seconds less time to catch up to the survivor now than before with just this change.
Now, the killer also spends less time 'blade wiping' because of the 6.1 buff. Before, the killer spent 3 seconds moving at 0.46m/s and after 6.1 it's only 2.7 seconds at that speed. So those last .3 seconds are moving at 4.6 instead of 0.46, meaning that, previously, the killer would lose an extra 1.062m of distance on the survivor, but now actually gains distance instead. The net gain is 1.242m, which reduces the time to catch up to the survivor by another 2.02 seconds.
So just those two 'trivial' changes together cut 4.22 seconds off of every chase.
And the best part is that map geometry doesn't factor into this at all. If a survivor can get to a loop in the current game, they would've gotten to it before as well. And if they can't get to a loop currently, they might've with an extra 4.22 seconds previously available before the 6.1 buffs.
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Uhmmm.... Sure. I guess you haven't heard yet. 6.1.0 was a compensation because BHVR saw killers as too weak! This here? This HUD is not a compensation as they had no intention of making survivors stronger. This is something they wanted to implement as a QoL improvement anyway no matter how strong or weak survivors are. That's why they were always asking how they could improve solo queue and even said, long before 6.1.0, that they were working on ideas for this very issue.
If the kill rates do drop, which is likely, they will buff killers again. Because the kill rate they achieved after 6.1.0 is exactly what they're aiming at. That's how it works. Survivors got a nice little HUD to help them and killers will get something for compensation eventually.
You made it sound like BHVR were desperately trying to restore balance after 6.1.0. That is not the case. Because after 6.1.0 the game was balanced according to the devs. We already see the HUD's impact. We don't have any official data yet but it should be clear that this does actually effect kill rates. The less time survivors waste the shorter the match is and the harder it is for the killer to get kills. The only questions remaining are: "How much will the kill rates drop?" and "How will killers be compensated?"
It's hardly unreasonable for killer players to ask for compensation for the HUD and all the upcoming QoL improvements for survivors.
Because some people are hearing impaired they will add a visual indicator for the killer's TR. What about the people that get motion sickness when playing killer without Shadowborn? Base kit Unbreakable is still on the table. How will killers be compensated for that? The finisher mori is not a compensation. This only works when killer wins anyway.
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Yeah, that 4.22 seconds off sounds alright on paper until you consider how long it still takes to catch people in practice on an M1 killer. It's not palpable unless you have at least 6 STBFL stacks and the force is with you. Just like before 6.1, you'll hit somebody and they're virtually guaranteed distance to the next safety (most of the time with multiple options) unless they run into a dead-zone by mistake or get snagged on something. Only real difference now is it just doesn't feel like it's taking a year to get back into the action. Chances are they're still getting that pallet/window with plenty of leeway...just less leeway now.
So yeah I'd still call those buffs "trivial" for sure. Makes no difference to a lot of the people I go against as a leaderboard ghostface.
Might pull something off with stbfl, pwyf and coup de grace, but I doubt a build like that would hold water in the end.
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If these are trivial buffs, then removing them is inconsequential as well. I suspect that 'undoing' the 6.1 base kit killer buffs would be considered a 'non trivial' nerf if that were to ever come up.
Interesting how that works out.
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Yeah I hear arguments that hook counter would promote tunneling but in fact I usually end killing survivors accidentally because of it or even accidentally tunneling.... One information killer could get in my opinion is to show who has dh while injured so you don't have to bait it out when someone does not have it.
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How about the ability to see who we have hooked and how many times?
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instead of telling me that's nosense explain to me why it's nosense and why it was changed for your opinion... Iron will was tweaked mainly for that reason since people complained that survivors with that perk alone completely countered the spirit, without counterplays (plus stridor received the same treatment if not worse)
DS as i already said was tweaked but it's still useful... remember that you still have the basekit bt that allow you to reach a safe zone, and even in the case you can't reach it in time due for being too much far, DS will help you in that regard... it's still a 2nd chance perk pretty much effective if you know how to gain the maximum advantage from it
no it won't depend from the build and the killer... this it could be considered valid only with blight and nurse, everyone else rely too much of the mistakes that survivors do paired wth the fact of being extremely map dependant (a trickster/huntress/deathslinger for example won't do much in maps with high walls and obstacles due to the impossibility of using their powers; ghostface, myers, pig and wraith can't do much when in maps like ormond, haddonfield, badham, corn maps due to being easily spotted/unable to stalk properly). Btw if a killer like twins will down someone in a short amount of time as you said then the twins are facing awfully bad survivors imo.
i never said that it wasn't from both sides, but i wanted to point out that survivors have the upper hand since their items/addons are ALL useful (except the ones for the keys minus the one that reveal the killer's aura to you), not to mention that killers have those items available even before the rework of the bloodweb (i stil have A LOT of those items wth various killers that i don't even use anymore, leveled up BEFORE the bloodweb changes), while the killers usually have ONLY a couple of addons that are worth to be taken
regarding the last point do you like doing gens? That's the reason why it's not popular, but it's busted af, especially when aganist competent survivors... shall i post a video that show to you how much strong this can be? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nco8WCnAziE
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instead of telling me that's nosense explain to me why it's nosense and why it was changed for your opinion... Iron will was tweaked mainly for that reason since people complained that survivors with that perk alone completely countered the spirit, without counterplays (plus stridor received the same treatment if not worse)
You're saying it's not a nerf, but a 'rework' to fix how it interacts with one (1) killer, while completely disregarding that this invalidates the perk against ALL killers.
That's like saying Eruption isn't getting nerfed, it's just getting reworked because it was broken on Blight only. No, it's getting nerfed. It's going to perform worse in all situations.
It's a direct, downward numerical adjustment. That is a nerf, not a rework. Iron Will still functions the same way, it just does a worse job of it, that's a nerf. You know it's a nerf.
DS as i already said was tweaked but it's still useful... remember that you still have the basekit bt that allow you to reach a safe zone, and even in the case you can't reach it in time due for being too much far, DS will help you in that regard... it's still a 2nd chance perk pretty much effective if you know how to gain the maximum advantage from it
It's not supposed to be 'useful' when it fires, it's supposed to be 'powerful' when it fires, because the perk is dead weight in any situation in which the killer uses any of the plethora of ways to circumvent it. The perk was tailored for one specific situation, it needs to be powerful in that situation, not 'okay'.
Again, though, you are tying your brain into a knot in order to try and avoid having to admit that a survivor perk was nerfed. DS was gutted. It lost half of its effective value.
The 'tweak' part was the EGC disable, that one everyone was fine with, but the stun duration absolutely did not deserve to be touched. That was gutted.
no it won't depend from the build and the killer... this it could be considered valid only with blight and nurse, everyone else rely too much of the mistakes that survivors do paired wth the fact of being extremely map dependant (a trickster/huntress/deathslinger for example won't do much in maps with high walls and obstacles due to the impossibility of using their powers; ghostface, myers, pig and wraith can't do much when in maps like ormond, haddonfield, badham, corn maps due to being easily spotted/unable to stalk properly). Btw if a killer like twins will down someone in a short amount of time as you said then the twins are facing awfully bad survivors imo.
Blight, Nurse, Wesker, Dredge, Spirit, Nemesis, loads of killers have way more options than you are trying to claim here. Pallets aren't really safe around a lot of killers too. That's also not mentioning how Trickster/Huntress/Deathslinger can act faster after a hit and might be able to score downs they couldn't otherwise. This stuff interacts in varying ways with varying killers, so yes, it strongly depends on killer and build.
And we're talking about post-first-hit instances. Twins can down injured survivors unbelievably quickly and efficiently. That's their entire thing.
i never said that it wasn't from both sides, but i wanted to point out that survivors have the upper hand since their items/addons are ALL useful (except the ones for the keys minus the one that reveal the killer's aura to you), not to mention that killers have those items available even before the rework of the bloodweb (i stil have A LOT of those items wth various killers that i don't even use anymore, leveled up BEFORE the bloodweb changes), while the killers usually have ONLY a couple of addons that are worth to be taken
ARE they all useful? Toolbox greens for example are terrible. As are most offerings. Keys and maps are pointless. I'd say survivors suffer more bloat than killers do.
regarding the last point do you like doing gens? That's the reason why it's not popular, but it's busted af, especially when aganist competent survivors... shall i post a video that show to you how much strong this can be? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nco8WCnAziE
And how much of that is due to changes post 6.1? Shall I tell you how much?
10.5 seconds. That's all that was added after 6.1. And that does require hitting those consistent great skillchecks on top of Stakeout. And a fully kitted toolbox with Streetwise. And if you want to do it more than once, you need Built to Last. And you need to hope there is no interruption of any kind.
But when everything's lined up, sure, you can do a gen fast. Not that much faster than what you used to be able to before 6.1, I mean, it's half a second faster. But it IS technically faster.
How did the rest of the match go?
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They thought of doing that when they gave survivors that information. But they thought that it would benefit tunnelers allot and they were right. Instead they added the bar that shows you how many you have in total. This was when the new UI was added.
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OMG
" Toolbox greens for example are terrible. As are most offerings. Keys and maps are pointless"
Keys remove your collision last time I checked. That is not pointless. Maybe exploitive is more accurate. Toolboxes still load BNPs, and reduce generator time.
Survivors have the potential to be set up all wrong beyond a certain point, when coordinated and loaded with toys.
And this feels like a massive over compensation for the lack of decent tutorials that might tell new, solo survivors how to succeed.
I'm not really wanting to compare add ons for each killer vs the total survivor pool of junk, but I do not see it being contentious to note that some killers only have a handful of useful add ons. And I'll take 25% of a gen+ 1.5x basespeed for 16seconds over Blight's shredded notes or placebo tablet.( To pick a killer with good add on options to highlight that they all have some trash.)
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When I said 'Toolbox greens' I meant the green add-ons for toolboxes.
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now you are the one that's saying nosense... then for your logic it's like saying that the scourge hooks should be buffed because a single perk (sabotateur) can counter them (3 perks: flood of rage, pain resonance and gift of pain)... iron will was tweaked (i said tweaked because it won't work when exhausted)/nerfed (reduced the effectiviness) because it countered a NECESSARY mechaninc for that single killer (this and of course the overuse of that perk, but this is a secondary factor imo), you like it or not that's the truth about it... we can always ask directly to the devs if you aren't convinced...
then for your logic noed should be like it was once, without being related to a totem but a perk that wasn't disposable, with ALL the buffs that it had. old mori should be still in game, killing directly the downed survivors on the spot without hooks required because it should be "powerful" and not "useful" as you said... unrelenting should be like it was before... keys nerfs should be reverted, old loops should stay in the game... did you think at least of what are you saying? Just because something was broken/extremely strong doesn't mean that was funny/fair or right...
only the fact that you mentioned that huntress and trickster can hit right after hitting someone with their power is the proof that you gave me right since only newcomers to the game will stay near the killer after being hit from their powers in order to get the 2nd hit from a m1 or another use of their power...
i want to ask you something... when survivors use their strongest items, did they get some negative effects/sides? NO, while most of the killers out there have certain condictions/negative effects on their powers (iri hatches reduced to 1, clown bottles reduced by 2, etc etc). this is related also with the weakest stuff: while survivors have brown medkits and addons that are still useful somewhat, the killers have NERFING addons that will only improve the bp gained for certain events or even the strongest addons at their disposal (knight and map of the realm for example), just to tell you how much "fine" are the killer's addons compared to the survivor's ones...
you can't be on 4 places at once, period. you can't stop all the survivors to do gens, period...
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You mean the sabotage supporting stuff?
Please take those out(not serious). Having survivors reveal early in the match that optimal play involves slugging them all, is not fun. For either side.
Now, to be honest, I mostly see BnPs loaded and not the sabo items, but those greens do support a style of play that I see often enough in SWF that want to annoy the killer, and I wouldn't seriously advocate cutting their game play options down.
So, yes, those add ons do support a play style.
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When survs have VoiceChat.exe and Hud ( aka Wallhack in CS GO ) .
ERUPT -no prob use voice
DMS - NO pro use hud or voice
Corrupt int - no prob use voice to run for free gen 30 sec start gen becomes 40 okey .
Plaything - no prob use voice
Stealth - no prob use voice
Surv aura perks? - np need use voice
Want even more on killer walhacks? - no prob go Fog of Wise and tell all team on Voice permanent killer location all game long.....
Want safe unhook? - no prob. Dont take surv hook camp aura perk....USE VOICE ...hey dude he is away unhook me..
Hey dude body block be with DH ... Hey dude mine on CD change me for body block...
Hey dude i am in that locker ready for bully Stun .....
Can be continued.....
"Make baby survs fly and they will cry they cant swim"
Survs less then 500 hours of pure surv gameplay must not be allowed on forums.
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iron will was tweaked (i said tweaked because it won't work when exhausted)/nerfed
So it WAS nerfed! Why did you deny that in the first place if you're just going to circle back and sneak in a little admission that you were dead wrong later on?
then for your logic noed should be like it was once, without being related to a totem but a perk that wasn't disposable, with ALL the buffs that it had. old mori should be still in game, killing directly the downed survivors on the spot without hooks required because it should be "powerful" and not "useful" as you said... unrelenting should be like it was before... keys nerfs should be reverted, old loops should stay in the game... did you think at least of what are you saying? Just because something was broken/extremely strong doesn't mean that was funny/fair or right...
You realise you're talking about post-conspic DS, right? A perk that, in well over 90% of matches, would never fire, right? A perk that sat in the majority of survivors loadouts, slowing them down without activating, right?
I can't understand how you think that anti-tunnel DS is in any way comparable to non-totem NOED, old moris, infinites or keys.
I will remind you of what I said: "The perk is dead weight in any situation in which the killer uses any of the plethora of ways to circumvent it. "
NOED could not be circumvented. Old moris could not be circumvented. Keys could not be circumvented.
DS? Just don't hit spacebar on anyone that was unhooked in the last 60 seconds, unless they did anything to help the survivor side. It was the easiest perk to counterplay, to completely flatline its value. I have been hit with DS literally only -once-, when I was a dumb newbie and fell for a bait. After that, even though DS was in every match, it never fired again. At all. Ever. Not for a lack of trying on the survivors' part, either, but DS is a survivor perk that can only be activated by the killer.
If a perk is so phenomenally conditional that it may fire once every fifty matches, it better bring some fireworks when it does.
NOED does not fit that description. Old moris don't fit that description. Old keys don't fit that description.
Seriously evaluate your biases, Tostapane, if you think that post-conspic nerf DS is in any way comparable to old moris.
only the fact that you mentioned that huntress and trickster can hit right after hitting someone with their power is the proof that you gave me right since only newcomers to the game will stay near the killer after being hit from their powers in order to get the 2nd hit from a m1 or another use of their power...
I'm not talking about survivors staying near after getting hit by Trickster or Huntress' powers. I'm talking about the on-hit cooldown being reduced, allowing these killers to ready their powers quicker after the hit and being able to score downs that they wouldn't before the killer buffs.
Did you forget the topic?
i want to ask you something... when survivors use their strongest items, did they get some negative effects/sides? NO, while most of the killers out there have certain condictions/negative effects on their powers (iri hatches reduced to 1, clown bottles reduced by 2, etc etc). this is related also with the weakest stuff: while survivors have brown medkits and addons that are still useful somewhat, the killers have NERFING addons that will only improve the bp gained for certain events or even the strongest addons at their disposal (knight and map of the realm for example), just to tell you how much "fine" are the killer's addons compared to the survivor's ones...
Most killer add-ons don't tack on penalties either though...
you can't be on 4 places at once, period. you can't stop all the survivors to do gens, period...
Game would be fundamentally broken if you could.
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did i denied that was nerfed? i don't remember to say that it wasn't, i said that it was reworked since they only decreased the % of effectiviness of the perk, not completely erase/nullified the utility/purpose of the perk (aka gutting)... i said that it was modified for the simple reasons that i stated above, so don't put words into my mouth that i didn't say thanks
The examples that i stated above were just examples of broken stuff that were rightfully fixed during those years, don't you understand?... if we wanna be picky then even those had a counter: stealth plays (he can't mori you on the spot if he's unable to put you in the dying state) and escape through the hatch/exit gates (the latter was for noed) but they were nerfed for RIGHTFULLY REASONS... the point is that DS was easily abusable even if you claimed that counters existed, not to mention that the time wasted in order to counter it was more than sufficient for giving advantage to your team: shall i remember to you the times that survivors forced it through lockers on purpose in order to waste the killer's time? should i remember to you that they could pick up themself thanks to unbrekable? Please, this isn't a anti tunneling perk, this is another 2nd chance for correcting bad plays, even now that it was tweaked several times (i'll tell you my personal anedocte: i was hitted by that perk when i was playing as legion without tunneling and camping and guess what? I couldn't kill anyone partially for all the 2nd chances that they used aganist me and partially because i played "fair" until the end despite they didn't deserve it... anyway the point is that i was hitted by that perk WITHOUT DESERVING IT and the times that they got from it allowed them to a full team escape... this is how much "weak" that perk becomes after all the tweaks received). You call me biased when you are the one that is refusing to see the issues of the game it seems
a SMALL reduced cooldown of the main weapon won't do literally nothing for those killers, especially if we wanna look at the awful state of the maps... try to land a hatchet in the badham school right after hitting someone with a m1, try to do the same thing in a map like the game, lery, ormond, crotus... I dare you to try... Facts are DIFFERENT from what you stated unfortunately
you are derailing... i asked you a simple question: when survivors use their strongest items, did they get some negative effects/sides? Also if some of the best killer addons are brown/yellow this is sufficient to tell you how much weak are compared to the ones that survivors got, so my point still stand
EXACTLY, you can't... for that reason the build is broken since you can't be in more than 1 place at the same time... you can chase 1 survivor at time, not all of them. when you are busy with one of them, the others won't stay idle, waiting for being chased by you, they will do gens
i'll close our debate here (at least for now) since i'm tired to wrote entire essays just to prove simple points that people can easily aknowledge with experience playing both sides
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i said that it was reworked since they only decreased the % of effectiviness of the perk, not completely erase/nullified the utility/purpose of the perk (aka gutting)
So Iron Will made it so that you couldn't be heard before at all, and now you can be heard. That's not a total gutting, not at all. I mean, the one purpose the perk has is now undone by hitting the 'volume up' button, but that's not a total removal of functionality, not at all. And it now can't be used with exhaustion perks, that's not gutting it either. Sure.
The examples that i stated above were just examples of broken stuff that were rightfully fixed during those years, don't you understand?
Yes, and DS was not one of those, that was the entire bloody point! You're using your opinion as an argument here, in that YOU think that DS deserved to be cut by half because of a tangentially related thing.
if we wanna be picky then even those had a counter: stealth plays (he can't mori you on the spot if he's unable to put you in the dying state)
Stop. Doing. This.
You KNOW that what you are saying is dumb. You KNOW that this is not practically applicable. You KNOW that old NOED and Moris would be guaranteed to proc during a normal match, over the course of normal gameplay.
You KNOW that this is not the case for DS.
the point is that DS was easily abusable
After the conspic nerf, no, it wasn't.
I've only been hit with DS once, and it was 100% my own fault and perfectly avoidable.
DS is not abusable. People have tried abusing it against me, and they wound up stretched out on the floor while I ignored them and went for a target that wouldn't have DS, costing them more time than me.
even if you claimed that counters existed
You know, it's ever worse than that. It's not so much that counters existed.
It's that the killer needs to intentionally and actively, willingly and wittingly, invest time and effort to make DS work.
The KILLER is the one that activates DS. Nothing the survivors do can make DS trigger. ONLY the killer can make DS trigger. It's not even that there's counters to it, it's just that the killer can pretty much opt out of DS.
not to mention that the time wasted in order to counter it was more than sufficient for giving advantage to your team
Not if you're a competent killer.
But this also highlights a major problem with your attitude, and that of many others: You think tunnelling should be the baseline. You want everything to be balanced for tunnelling, only to then turn around and go 'WOE IS ME!' when you feel 'forced to tunnel'. You don't accept non-tunnelling as the balancing point.
It is YOUR fault that you can't win without tunnelling, no matter which way you try to argue it. Even if you want to argue that the game is not balanced around 12-hooking, that is also on you if you insist that the DS nerf was fair. That is YOU pushing the game to be balanced around tunnelling.
Don't cry when you get what you demanded and then it turns out that it wasn't what you wanted.
i'll tell you my personal anedocte: i was hitted by that perk when i was playing as legion without tunneling and camping
No, you still specifically went after the target that was pulled off the hook in the last 60 seconds before they had the chance to do anything else! You targeted them, you could've picked anyone else, especially as legion, but you went after a fresh unhook.
Because there's literally no other way DS can hit you.
It is YOUR fault. YOU activated DS, not them.
I couldn't kill anyone partially for all the 2nd chances
How are you burning through all these second chances then, huh? Slapping folks off hook with BT, but you're not 'camping'? Getting hit with DS, but you're not 'tunnelling'? Folks standing up after you left them on the ground for too long, but you're not 'slugging'?
anyway the point is that i was hitted by that perk WITHOUT DESERVING IT
Right. Sure. Uh-huh.
a SMALL reduced cooldown of the main weapon won't do literally nothing for those killers, especially if we wanna look at the awful state of the maps... try to land a hatchet in the badham school right after hitting someone with a m1, try to do the same thing in a map like the game, lery, ormond, crotus... I dare you to try... Facts are DIFFERENT from what you stated unfortunately
So ONE of the six buffs that killers got may conditionally not be as valuable and that's reason for you to disregard ALL of them in their entirety under ANY situation?
you are derailing... i asked you a simple question: when survivors use their strongest items, did they get some negative effects/sides? Also if some of the best killer addons are brown/yellow this is sufficient to tell you how much weak are compared to the ones that survivors got, so my point still stand
You're the one trying to argue that killers DIDN'T get improved access to more powerful add-ons, by again, going into cherry-picked examples and using those to make a broad, sweeping statement.
EXACTLY, you can't... for that reason the build is broken since you can't be in more than 1 place at the same time... you can chase 1 survivor at time, not all of them. when you are busy with one of them, the others won't stay idle, waiting for being chased by you, they will do gens
No, they won't. Because after your first chase, someone's on hook, someone's getting chased, and someone HAS to go for the unhook. That leaves only one survivor on gens. ANY level of inefficiency on the part of ANY of those survivors drops progress rate down to 0%.
But that's also not addressing how the build is dependent on a ton of factors, is still somewhat unreliable, leaves the survivor a sitting duck for anything that isn't doing gens, it doesn't work against TR shenanigans, and it also doesn't address that this doesn't show the rest of the match.
In short, you're cherry-picking. Again.
i'll close our debate here (at least for now) since i'm tired to wrote entire essays just to prove simple points that people can easily aknowledge with experience playing both sides
Sure. If that'll help you sleep.
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Wiggle progress bar and hook stages per survivor instead of the vague counter would be a start for QoL HUD changes for killers.
Also, why would the gen progress be to much value for the killer, but not for survivors?
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Absolutely no wiggle progress bar, killers would just drop you and leave you slugged if they -knew- they couldn't make it to a hook anymore.
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Which is so much different than what they are doing currently...
Oh wait...
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First killer got a lot of baseline buffs, now it’s survivors turn. Why is this so hard to understand?
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Only difference is, that the baseline buffs for survivors were much more impactful.
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Yes, it is. Any time someone manages to wriggle off, it's because the killer doesn't know the wiggle progress. Giving them that would make wiggling fully and completely pointless instead of just mostly pointless.
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Or and hear me out. Killers would change their route on the way to the hook, based on how much progress the survivor has. Choose a different (scourge) hook instead.
For example, Iron Grip and Agitation only see value in very specific builds (mostly basement based ones). Actually being able to see how they impact the progress bar on the way to the hook, could make them more appealing for other builds. Basekit Unbreakable is coming (soonish or something like that). So dropping the survivors when not being able to reach any hook doesn´t seem such a bad thing, when survivors can just pick themselves up.
Whenever i use Iron Grip, Agitation and/or Mad Grit. The progress of the survivor on my shoulder is a wild guess. Having a progress bar would be a real QoL change.
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Then they will balance the game accordingly. Making SoloQ experience worse will just kill this game. I can't understand people complaining about giving a buff to the most problematic/bad part of this game - The SoloQ surv.
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I guess wiggle progress could work and hook stages per survivors would just help increase tunneling issues by a landslide. Because that's should've been info that survivors should've always had being able to know. And to answer why it would be too much value is bc the killer would know right away what gen is being worked on and if its high priority. Basically being a free lethal pursuer and you'll have constant info of where survivors are.
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yes yes keep saying nosense. i'm done to speak with you since you are like all the people who main one side: dumb and happy with the actual state of the game... i could stay here to reply to everything that you said because you didn't understand how things goes on dbd, but it would be a waste of my time
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Which is bad because...?
Btw a killer who wants to tunnel, will tunnel no matter what. Having a survivor specific hook counter would prevent "accidental" tunneling. I often kill survivors thinking that they are on their second hook.
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LMAO it would do the exact opposite you're saying. A killer isn't going to pick a survivor on no hooks over a survivor on death hook to chase you're just saying stupid things now. Im so done w you. "accidental tunneling" LMAOOO
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So you have never played against a group of Megheads with the same outfit and didn´t know which one you hooked?
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The new chase mechanic literally helped against this even the devs mentioned it themselves. You're just talking bc you can tap.
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How exactly is the chase mechanic helping in that regard when the killer can´t see which survivors (Megs) he has already hooked?
Megheads often try to confuse the killer by constantly crossing path while already in a chase, body blocking, etc. Chase indicator lits up for all of them. How is the killer supposed to keep track on who he hooked? Hell, i know survivors that lose track on who was hooked if they don´t look at the counter.
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So again you're trying to punish solo queue for swf issues? And why did you move over to talking about swf when this thread was about solo queue?
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Because you claimed that killers can´t accidentally tunnel. But they can. Sure, most of the time its not accidental. BUT it happens. Especially when survivors wear matching outfits. Even big streamers have matches where they go on like "wait, he was on death hook?!"
The point is, that a killer who starts a match with the mindset of tunneling someone out, will tunnel no matter the information he is given. Survivors have a overload of information and killers get starved on critical information.
That doesn´t seem fair.
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Do you mean information that survivors should've had since the start? It's a team based game ofc you should be able to know where/what your team is doing. Up until this patch you had no clue what your team was doing unless you had LOS of them, perks, or someone else was the obsession and they were being chased.
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