lets discuss what are the reasons veteran players leave dbd and is there a way to retain them?
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Oh yeah a 6v6 like Hockey would made a great analogy for a 1v4.
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Boredom for survivors? no. It gets rather lame dying every match because killer is busted lately.
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As survivor, teammates. I want smarter matchmaking that puts me with teammates who will participate in the match. I haven't touched survivor for a while now because I really, really am so freaking tired of it. You can't put survivors who don't participate with players who do participate and expect the latter to carry them, that's not fair and it doesn't work. Put the ones who don't participate together and let them learn what happens when they can't piggyback on their teammates.
In general, I want BHVR to improve console performance. Killer is pretty much unplayable on Switch. The new wiggle hurts controller users so, so much more than PC and on PS4 I have had times when I was unable to hook Boil Over users even when the hook was only a few feet away, I simply could not move. Console needs controller options like dead zone and response curve, the lack of those options when ranged killers exist is unacceptable.
I also want the cross-progression that was promised for Switch. It was the only reason I was willing to purchase the game on Switch in the first place. Performance keeps getting worse.
With how bad DbD is at keeping new players, they really do need to work more on keeping long-time customers happy. My frustration with the game only gets worse each time I turn it on. When my best way to deal with game's issues is to not play, at what point do I simply completely stop? History has shown that once I move on, I won't come back. I think most people are the same.
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I just want Eyrie of Crows removed man
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Got bored there are no fun perks to use for killer, you have lightborn for full flashligh squad, franklins, Noed, and the Benjo build, that's it, the rest of the perks are either sweaty competitive, info perks, niche, or some of them give you value and you can't even tell for example oblivious perks like if the survivor runs towards me was it my perk or was he just stupid, or both?
This game has too much in visual and design variety and not enough in the gameplay
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A mix of no real rewards for getting good at the game, game elements that reduce(or even outright remove) your ability to apply your skill, and just plain old burn out imo
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For me it was getting so invested in the game that all the toxicity actually started hurting a bit. Also I feel like the rift between survivors and killers has grown over the years.
Also playing DBD fells much more like "work" than real fun nowadays. Like there are still fun matches but also a lot of matches that are just not fun. Like a skull merchant taking u hostage for half an hour or survivors that are just hiding or being sent to rpd 10 times in a row.
That paired with BHV apparently being afraid of allowing a meta and killer quality getting worse in recent times made me just play DBD very sporadic recently.
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more than the farm maps, garden of joy, knights new realm, and the red forest giganto maps?
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i feel your pain as a console player...the biggest gripes i have are boil over in indoor maps lead to almost impossible hooks and aiming is horrible (hi trickster)
is it really that bad on switch? i remember how dbd was running on the xbox one and now that i play on the series s it is so much smoother
the retention rate is why i worry about this games future...there are only so many more players you can entice (ps players got it as part of ps plus, epic games gave it out for free, i am actually surprised it hasn't been given out as a game with gold or moved to a free to play model with microtransactions/outfit generator
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is it really that bad on switch
Yes. I cannot play killer for real on Switch, I cannot. The framerate is so bad and choppy it's definitely worse than 15fps. The new/updated maps are really bad. Because of the poor framerate, I can't increase the sensitivity to 100% like I can on PS4, so the controls are sluggish. Survivors kind of just disappear during chases all the time, either because they 360 and vanish or because they break line-of-sight and scratch marks are just not there. The majority (large majority) of attempted hits miss. Many killer powers are either super clunky or they move way too fast and feel uncontrollable. Input latency makes things even worse.
I remember one survivor running in circles in front of me on the new Shelter Woods map, and he was moving faster than the framerate could keep up with. I must've tried to hit him over 20 times and not once did it ever connect. Only injured him once, when another survivor accidentally body blocked him, otherwise he was untouchable.
I once tried to pip up killer on Switch, and I couldn't get out of Bronze. (It was a long while back, I don't remember how far in Bronze I got, but it wasn't far. I had already gotten to Iri 1 on PS4 and thought it'd be cool to also get the bonus BP on Switch... never again.)
I have gone against other Switch killers, and the majority seem to suffer from the same performance issues I do. Almost all Switch killers whiff over and over and over again. I can't remember the last time I saw a Switch killer who wasn't running Unrelenting, it's pretty much required.
Survivor has problems (skill checks) but it's not nearly as debilitating as when playing killer. Between the frame drops and input latency, running DS has never been an option. I do a mini-celebration if I manage to hit every Merciless Storm skill check. The input latency can cause problems in chases, too, like not being able to throw down a pallet.
I think older generations of Switch consoles and ports have more performance problems than newer generations, but I wouldn't know for sure.
(hi trickster)
Trickster's unplayability makes me so sad.
moved to a free to play model with microtransactions/outfit generator
I hope that doesn't happen. Free-to-play would mean even more cheaters and hackers.
Post edited by TragicSolitude on1 -
Hey devs. Look at this thread. Half of the replies are something along the lines of "No reward for improving or being good at the game. No sense of player progression in terms of skill." Much of the playerbase has moved on from the casual party game mindset of 2016 when the game launched. Short queues aren't a feature if the matches are non-competitive messes.
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Do we not already have elitism?
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I don't see how it would be worse.
Honestly, it might help people.
At the moment, we have a bunch of people saying, "Well, I'm clearly high MMR because the players I play against play perfectly".
If we had visible MMR, we could actually try to help those people by figuring out where they are at in their gameplay and give them some advice to help make the game better for them.
What we have now is basically Overwatch but you don't get to see your Rank. Nobody is happy with this system.
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how to retain players?
By adding goals and rewards for those goals.
some games do it by adding a ranked system that eventually evolves into pro play
- if i were to make a professional esport model for dead by daylight it would be a 5v5 (4 survivors and 1 killer team). In a match one team’s goal would be to escape as fast as possible with as many survivors as possible. Each survivor that escapes will be 1 point. The time it takes to escape would decide tie breakers. There are 2 matches one killer versus one survivor, have a short recess, flip the groups. Tally the score and announce a winner.
- in this example there would be a specific map that is designated the “esports” map that is prebuilt from the ground up and not from rng. Offerings would be disabled. Players would be allowed to use any perk, item, and add-on combination - except special event items that are meant to change gameplay for thematic reasons - blight syringe for example
- this competition would mirror the in-game ranked mode and top players would be scouted from a leaderboard, given a ranking at the end of a season, and a cosmetic to indicate their achievement of that rank (like a charm or a specific character’s base outfit modified: i.e. bloody dwight vs iridescent dwight vs challenger dwight vs victorious dwight etc.)
- ranked mode could go for 3 months or continue the 1 month trend or whatever. 5 people are paired through prebuilts or through matchmaking vs 5 more people. The killer’s ratings go up based on kills of survivors. The individual survivor’s ratings go up based on escape percentage. If a low level killer kills a survivor that has a high percentage or a low success rate survivor escapes a high kill count killer the stats go up more. So when you see a player’s stats it might say “survivor -escape rate: 89%” or “killer - kill rate: 64%” and of course there would be a “win/loss” rating to show if they’re the deciding factor of the games they play. As well as a “time to kill” rating for killers. Survivors would have a few extra stats that show the various aspects of teamwork: health state heals, rescues, successful chases, escapes, generators completed, etc.
other games do it by making end game content to grind for such as gear sets or unique time limited content that is only available to high ranking veteran players. Some examples that come to mind are rainbow 6 extraction, for honor, mmorpgs, and destiny.
- for dbd the deep archives or whatever might be that thing. Or it could be something like a reward for reaching level 100. Or a new mode only high devotion players can play (like smite’s face the titans mode). However, this would take a lot of effort on the part of creating advanced AI. Or just creating impossible to beat odds that some egghead who has grinded a way into dbd godhood. Like “face the entity” or something.
- release new content more regularly. This is pretty much already being done. Dbd releases new content way more regularly than other games. Perhaps it’s not so much an issue with the time frame, but the bulk or variances.
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I get the concern, and it's a valid one. I think you can hide MMR and add a skill rating that resets every month or two. As far as elitism goes, we already have that with hidden numbers. And I'd do the same thing I do now with that elitism: ignore it.
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i didnt realize it was so bad on switch...it reminds me of the input lag when i tried to stream dbd on gamepass on my phone (now if i do log in on my phone it is just when they have daily log in rewards)
i hope you didnt pay too much for that switch version of dbd...is it running better on ps4 now?
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i think these are all fantastic ideas but do you think rank mode would split the playerbase too much?
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i think it would split the player base and have cheaters/griefers. i haven't seen a ranked mode that doesn't do that.
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in a lot of ways... that's also kind of the point of ranked anyway
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DBD loses players because MMR exists.
MMR was added in September of 2021. DBD had 50k average players. MMR made 20k players leave. Solution : remove MMR and make it random again.
MMR "Weaponized" the game. You run faster and faster only to stay in exactly the same place. You get to a point where you can't play unless you bring "the best".
MMR has invisible break points that once you cross you can't go back. If you ever reach 1600 MMR with a killer then all your killers have a minimum of 1200 MMR. What if you buy Hag? That's right you won't get to play vs new players - you're stuck in the mid tier game where people already know how to counter your killer and you don't have a clue how to play Hag. It's a Genius system right? (please note the sarcasm).
Furthermore there are only 2 viable killers vs efficient players : Nurse/Blight. The rest of the cast should be locked in a lower MMR bracket (along with any players who are not yet good with Nurse/Blight).
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What do you mean... we already have a Ranked mode (just not how we see other games do one)
They kinda need to do an unranked mode... among other modes to have a difference in gameplay
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DbD goes on sale a lot. I was traveling and the Silent Hill edition went on sale on Switch (I don't remember for how much) and that's when I got it. I'll say, though, paying anything for a game that performs this poorly is a bummer. BHVR releasing such a bad port and charging money for it feels unethical. The performance is garbage even after BHVR downgraded the game to PS1 graphics and disabled the Switch's built-in 30 second video clip feature (I really miss being able to clip videos).
is it running better on ps4 now?
A couple years ago, performance absolutely tanked on PS4 and Xbox One consoles. I mean, damn near unplayable. I bought an external SSD to fix it, and performance went back to normal. For me, DbD on PS4 runs well. It's still capped at 30 fps and it can still have issues, especially on certain maps (every new map seems to be worse than the previous one), but it's a million times better than on the Switch. However, for PS4 players without an SSD, I do not know how it performs.
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Poorly.
It performs very poorly on Xbox One and Xbox One X, even with an SSD.
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i have an xsx. my brother was lucky enough to secure one during the whole shortage issue. i bought it off of him for pennies because he switched to pc gaming.
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This right here is the answer to the thread.
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The drum I have beating for years now is they need to add alternative game modes. They need to be careful in the way this is done as you don't want to splinter the playerbase. But if they introduced new game modes and rotated them regularly it would add entirely new game experiences. And the thing is, there are plenty of ways to do this that wouldn't take very much in the way of game developer effort. How much time would it take to make a few changes to the game interface and then make a game mode called "turbo" (or whatever) then increase base movement speed for both killer and survivor by 50%? It wouldn't matter if it wasn't a balanced experience. It would just be fun and different. Then after 2 weeks or a month or whatever, switch it out with another game mode.
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Cant measure my progress, sweating seems pointless, all i get is bp, no other rewards. Maybe if they added an in game leaderboard, or clans, something. Something to aim for that isnt p100
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Pre original rework dead hard alone was pushing me away from the game. Other things were also contributing but that was the primary one.
After the first dead hard rework I was happy until it made its resurgence. Still it was tolerable in its new form but the maps which have for a long time been bad just got worse and worse. At the time I last played regularly (late December) sheltered woods and Dead dawg alone were the only maps that I looked forward to playing on. Garden of misery and the horrible RPD rework absolutely killed my trust in BHVRs ability to create a balanced map.
After that Knight came to PTB and straight away it was obvious that his power was almost non existent and gave survivors way too much information. His initial buffs did nothing to remedy this and by the time he got some actual meaningful buffs my patience had ran out. I deleted the game and haven't regretted it once.
Then Skull Merchant was released. Needless to say that proved beyond any doubt that I'd made the right choice. At this point I don't see myself ever playing again even unless BHVR actually makes a phenomenal effort and releases an update that fixes all my problems with the game. Even then I doubt I'll ever be invested enough to play for hours at a time again.
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The problem is the gameplay loop doesn't really change n much with most killers. You could sum the gameplay in a few categories m1 killers: they do most if not all damage with basic attack have no to minimal anti loop. Ranged killers: it's in the name. Zoners: they just make loops useless and just promote. Then mobile killers: they can get around the map at high speeds. I wouldn't really call anti loop a categorie so much anymore as most killer have a form of it in there kit.
But even with this the basics gameplay loop doesn't change. You still find survivor chase them down them hook them. The little differences don't really change the gamepley enough.
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I always say this but I will keep saying it, DBD fanbase isn't loyal enough to sustain this. Last time we skipped just 1 chapter about 12,000 players left the game on steam alone due to content drought (This was between the releases of Pig and Clown). DBD needs constant big changes and content otherwise the playerbase takes a nosedive
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I am a huge fan of DBD and came from Overwatch as a Diamond rank. Far from the best, but starting at Bronze and working my way up was a frustrating, but rewarding experience. Its nice when you have a quantitative way to see your improvement.
I think the flaws come from how the top ranks will be extremely hard to play in. Ranked wont be fun if you reach the higher levels and only see Blight, Spirit, and Nurse. At that point you would only play the equivalent of quickplay. The queue times would be atrocious.
Also, I'm surprised the devs haven't incentivized the prestige system more. Imagine if on killer you got a solid gold base weapon skin for reaching P100? Or on survivor you had a unique outfit that couldn't be purchased? Not charms. No one cares about charms.
Either way, I do feel like BHVR has been making great changes and have been actively trying to make the game even better. Remember, you see the same ~1000 people on these forums while there are ~30k average players a day on DBD.
We can speculate all we want, however we are not the majority and are a small portion of the player base.
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You think Veterans are leaving the game because certain costumes leave after 6 weeks?
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This
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It def contributes.
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I'm going to take a more positive stance than some people here.
If I was BHVR dev and I saw an angry post 'I've played for thousands of hours, but I'm done and leaving the game' I'd take the long term as a win.
Everything in life gets boring. There aren't a lot of games, or activities of any type, that can keep a large group of people interested for thousands, or even hundreds, of hours.
Veterans trickling away is inevitable. What they have to be concerned about is new players sticking around to become veterans.
If the standard is that people play for hundreds or thousands of hours before leaving the game I'm sure BHVR is thrilled with the game's future.
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the game is a balance nightmare.. the dev's are only making changes every 6 months because reasons and too few perks are getting changed.. lack of constant balance is a big factor for a game like this.
no good ideas to improve the base of the game.. (which probably they tested with alot but THEY didnt like it) basically they are the ones making people leaving in the long term here..
what could bring back people? well remove the mmr or make a competitive/quick game mode, show mmr on competitive mode.. put rewards for competitive mode and let others decide.
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I'd boil my personal reasons for staying away from the game down to these two points:
- The new progression system makes 100%ing all my Killers basically impossible. Previously to it I found pride in having all characters Prestige 3 with all Perks, but grinding every single character to Prestige 100 is an extremely unrealistic task. Basically took one of my main drives to still play the game away.
- BHVR has slowly but surely removed every Killer I found fun. Whether that was with active balance changes that heavily affected their powers, such as Hillbilly, Deathslinger or Spirit, passively by having the game change but not adapting them to fit into it, such as Trapper, or by simply dumbing them down to a point where I find them significantly less engaging to play as, such as Doctor, doesn't matter - slowly but surely all the Killers I used to love got wiped out one after another.
It just feels terrible to invest five thousand hours into something to slowly master and perfect it, just for BHVR to take it and throw it out the window. Creative Trap placements as Trapper? The new grass texture combined with the new ground textures makes hiding these bad boys impossible on many maps.
Learning the precise timings on Doctor and figuring out when Punishment Mode and when Treatment Mode is best? BHVR completely removed mode swapping and with it most of the skillfull timings required on the Killer - not to mention the new Discipline Add Ons that make him even more easy.
Learning Deathslingers projectile size and rough estimate of where your TR begins to be able to sneak up on people and get cool shots through small gaps in structures in chases? Firstly BHVR patched most of these small gaps in the Realm Beyond, secondly by the time you have your damn gun up now the timing required to shoot through these gaps is gone anyway. Also 32m TR - WHY.
And don't even get me started on how Hillbilly actively gets punished just for using his damn power now.
As a result of this I have lost my faith in BHVRs ability to maintain their Killer character roaster. Therefore not only do I not want to touch Killer anymore due to BHVR having removed almost everyone I found enjoyable in that roaster, I also do not want to invest any more time into a new character out of fear of BHVR going ham on them too in the future, once again invalidating all my efforts of learning them.
I'd need that trust to be reestablished, but new Killer releases like the Knight and Skullmerchant paired with balance updates like the one currently on PTB, where they buffed Nurse, doubled down on Hillbillys overheat (again) and then nerfed the only two Add Ons he had that were not complete garbage, really have the opposite effect on me.
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I only care about new killer releases and the last two (Skull Merchant & Knight) were downright failures in terms of gameplay so there's very little to keep me playing. I haven't touched this game since more than a week now, been playing RE4 remake instead.
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you guys make me sad this game is fun i have been playing since 2017
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It's the same gameplay loop...
Chase, down and hook Survivors
Run away from Killer, do Gens, open exit gates and escape
Everything else is secondary (Totems, Healing, Unhooking, Kicking Gens)
And the fact that BHVR wants to shake up the "meta" without realizing why the "meta" exists in the first place
So what we want is different gamemodes (like 1V1 chase mode... or material gathering) and BHVR to understand why the "meta" exists in the first place
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fair that would be cool
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Obviously I haven't left, but when I take a long break it's because I'm bored with survivor or I'm frustrated with killer or I've had a string of really tense, unfun matches with rude people on either side that make me say, "Why am I doing this instead of something fun?"
This game is also just a weird fit for me. I tend to like games where having the correct strategy/intention is more important than standing on the exact right pixel to execute it, and a lot of DBD depends on, like, running along a wall efficiently or pushing a button a split second faster than somebody else, and when it starts to feel like that's what I would have to do to win, I feel tired.
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here is hoping some of these suggestions get implemented
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