How do you calculate heals with the new medkits + perks?
Say I'm running a new medkit with Botany Knowledge. You won't be able to get a full heal, will you?
Can anyone explain the formula to figure out how many heals you get when adding perks like BK, Streetwise?
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Ok this will be a little complicated but bear with me.
Basically you divide the normal number of charges (in this case, 16) by your efficiency to get the number of charges you need.
We'll go over self-healing first.
Streetwise increases efficiency by 25%, or from 1 to 1.25 by default. Meaning, for every 1.25 charges of healing, 1 charge is depleted from the medkit. Except, any medkit reduces your self-heal efficiency by 33% of this number, so that brings it down to .8333333. (To make it exactly 24 charges by default without perks it'd technically be -33.3333% instead of -33% so we have to use that.) Divide 16 / .8333333 = 19.2 charges needed.
Botany decreases efficiency by 20%, or from 1 to 0.8 by default. Then reduce that by 33% again (of 0.8), so we get .5333333. Then, 16 / .533333 = 30 charges needed.
Using both perks will cause them to offset. Streetwise first increases efficiency from 1 to 1.25. Botany reduces it by 20% of 1.25, bringing it back to 1 (not 1.05). The medkit reduces it by 33%, bringing it down to .666666. Then, 16 / .666666 = the normal 24 charges needed for medkit self-healing.
With altruistic medkit heals, it’ll just be the same as it was before since the penalty from the medkit itself doesn't come into play. So the efficiencies are 1.25 with Streetwise, 0.8 with Botany, and 1 with both. This gives you 12.8 charges needed with Streetwise and 20 with Botany (and default efficiency if you use both).
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If you want to calculate how many heals you get from a medkit, you can ignore speed completely. Speed only affects how quickly you do the heal, not how many charges you use.
So the only thing that matters in this case would be efficiency.
- Botany Knowledge reduces it by 20%
- Med-Kits reduce efficiency when self healing by 33%
- Streetwise increases efficiency by 25%
DBD math can be a bit confusing at first, but in short:
- Positive modifiers are additive
- Negative modifiers are multiplicative
This way, no amount of stacking positive modifiers can ever make something instant or infinite, and no amount of stacking negative multipliers will ever make something take forever or deplete instantly.
So in this case, a heal takes 16 charges to complete, and you have a -20%, a -33%, and a +25% multiplier. When we put it together, it looks something like this:
16 / (1 + 0.25) * ((1 - 0.20) * (1 - 0.33)) ~= 23.88
Meaning with all of those modifiers, a single self heal with a med-kit, Botany Knowledge and Streetwise will require about 23.88 charges.
You can do the same math with the speed multipliers to see how quickly you'd use those 23.88 charges.
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Thank you both so much! Keeping this information for future reference
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How can One calculate Heal speed. I am interested in calculating various combinations of perks and/or medkits to see the various "self healing" specific options and how long each takes. (for simplicity, you can leave out the medkit as I am most interested in how to calculate speed)
Ex: Self Care, Botany Knowledge, Better than New, Desperate Measures, Streetwise (+medkits of course), etc.
Combo Ex: Self-Care+Botany Knowledge; Self Care+Streetwise+Brown Medkit, etc.
Thank you very much for the information from the first answer provide, it's very insightful!
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Any action speed in DBD is calculated by the formula below (it looks complicated I promise it's easy):
Action speed = Total Charges / 1 * (1 + (positive modifiers + positive modifiers)) * (1 - (negative modifiers * negative modifiers))
Let's take healing. It needs 16 charges. At base, that's 16 / 1 * (1 + (0)) * (1 - (0)), or literally 16 / (1 * 1 * 1) = 16/1 = 16 seconds.
Healing yourself comes with a 33.3% speed decrease, meaning that then becomes 16 / 1 * (1 + (0)) * (1-0.33)
Again, this looks complex, but take it one step at a time and it's very simple.
16 / 1 * (1) * (0.67)) = 16 / 1*0.67 = 16/0.67 = 23.88s. In practice, it equals 24 seconds, but for the sake of my keyboard and thumbs I'm not writing out an infinite number of 3s.
So, what if you use Botany Knowledge to heal someone else?
16 / 1 * (1+(0.5)) * (1-(0)) = 16 / 1 * 1.5 * 1) 16 / 1.5 = 10.67 seconds.
Worth noting, as mentioned above, positive multipliers are applied additively, and negative multipliers are applied multiplicatively. Hence why in the initial formula, positive modifiers are added and negative modifiers are multiplied.
I wrote this mostly on my phone + had to rush to help my brother set up his xbox, so if you have any other questions just let me know and I'll explain as best I can.
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I'm gonna bookmark this. I was always interested in math
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You rock dude! Thank you!
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Question: Should there be parenthesis for everything that is not the # of charges?
For your examples, what if we combine them? Is the correct equation the following?
16/(1*(1+0.5)*(1-0.33)) = 15.92
Thus, Botany Knowledge + Self Care = standard heal?
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Yes, as far as I'm aware that's correct (and it lines up with a game I had earlier where a green medkit + botany knowledge healed me at normal speed until the medkit ran out lol)
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Self care add a negative modifier that brings you down to a speed of 0.35c/s which is independent of the medkit speeds
16 / (1.5 * 0.35) = ~30.5s
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I believe they were referring to using a medkit, which now has a 33% speed decrease when healing yourself, since that's what I was using in my initial example.
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I was not referring to medkits in that example. Simply Self Care + Botany.
So someone's math is still off, as GoodBoyKaru's 1st example of only self care was a 24sec heal and LeFennecFox's example of Self Care + Botany is a 30sec heal which makes no sense since only self care should be slower than self care + botany.
Thank you both again for helping me try to understand the match behind heals/heal perks/medkits/etc.
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I was not using Self-Care in the example, I was using a Medkit to heal yourself. That comes with 33% speed decrease, as opposed to Self-Care which heals at 30% speed (a 70% speed decrease). Both sets of maths are correct
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Ahhhh, my apologies for my misunderstanding. Perfect, thanks again!
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Thanks for the maths !
I was always curious about how the penalties work, if it was additive or multiplicative.
Once, I was playing killer on Midwich and used Sloppy butcher and Coulrophobia and I spotted a Claudette selfcaring in my TR.
I was dying to know how long her heal was gonna take and now I know ! Damn, this girl stood no chance.
If I am correct, with all those penalties, her heal would have last 65 secs.
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My head hurts.
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Why does Botany Knowledge still give the 20% decrease wasn’t that that for the old Medkits and Boon:Circle of Healing no longer works with Medkits so maybe the the downside to Botany Knowledge is a little overkill
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