So instead of deadhard everyone is just using sprint burst now?
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If you want the game to be so boring to the point where "if I press M1 next to the survivor i want to GUARANTEE they will get hit" with absolutely no counter play then fair enough.
This is like saying "Mario is boring because he jumps every time I push the jump button."
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Meanwhile my chases have been much more enjoyable since I can lunge at pallets on the first chase with each survivor without having to worry about a DH. My matches have only felt little easier now ppl are using SB and Lithe. It's refreshing to seeing different exhausted perks for once instead of 4 DHs every single match. So yeah I'm much happier with dealing with Lithes and SB.
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as someone who just wait untill they waste the perk and them chase somebody else close by when they do , i got no issues with the perk + blood echo + mindbreaker is a good combo to counter early holding W "SprintBurst gamers
if we are talking about nerfing exhaustion perks i think increasing the exhaustion from 40 to 45 on tier 3 would be the best way to.
without nerfing Vigil ...
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I wish I could disagree with this since it's easy to do and efficient when the user knows when to do it. But this playerbase I guess.
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sprint burst requires more than 2 braincells and has counter play so i'm fine with it =)
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pls explain how either of these are true
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Personally I much prefer this to dh everywhere. People walking all around the map, holding sb to run away in your face. Only for you to find they walking around again 20 seconds later, exhausted. BuT YoU CaN 99 It!! True but so so so many don't, don't understand how or lack the skill or patience to do so.
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As a killer sprint burst doesn't feel as bad as dead hard did.
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Yeah I still believe exhaustion perks should have some sort of requirement to work that isn't just press a button. Exhaustion as a whole just isn't a very balanced mechanic when so many maps you can just hold W to win.
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THATS WHAT IM SAYING
Sb and llithe having the tiniest prerequisities for such a strong effect fr makes no sense to me
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If you are looking at a looping aspect, sprint burst doesn't really gain much value, other than making it take slightly longer to catch up. In a shift + w scenario, sprint burst adds a grand total of 4.2 meters of distance extra if you both are holding w. Do you know how short 4.2 meters is? That lunge distance of a killer is 6 meters. "catching up" this extra 4.2 meters, adds a grand total of 7 extra seconds to a chase. This is nothing compared to dead hard giving a bare minimum of 15 seconds extra chase time, and that isn't even accounting for the fact that it extends a chase at the END of a chase, rather than at the beginning where the killer hasn't already invested a ton of time into the chase.
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Wait 0.5s to bait it out?? Nah fam haha there were plenty of instances where it would be 5+ seconds, only to have them press E at the right moment anyway. And then the amount of collective time wasted baiting out a perk they ended up not even having. Glad to see SB back tbh.
DH was an issue, it finally got fixed.
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If you're baiting out a dead hard for "5 seconds" then you are playing against it wrong LOL
it's a bit like having to bait out a killers ability ?
Silent billy downing you in 1 hit, can't counter it at all if you don't know where the killer is and you're on a gen you're going down
Blight with ring addon, soon as a blight killer has put enough hours into him you are going down and losing... not much you can do
skull collector 3 genning.... pretty tedious and you can't do anything about it unless you're a very good SWF team...
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"Bare minimum 15s" SKILL ISSUEEE
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Sprint Burst is fine. It has actual ways of playing around it which Dead Hard did not in many situations.
Plus not everyone is running SB in my games. I see more Lithe than SB and the occasional Balanced and Dead Hard.
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I keep seeing certain people saying how unreliable and easy-to-counter DH was and... like... if that was the case then it wouldn't have been run by so many people. If you were in a dead-zone then yes it did require actual skill to get it to save you but if you were at a pallet it was almost guarenteed to save you.
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so a bit like some of the killer abilities that you couldn't avoid (vs a good killer) unless you were near a pallet loop or window? sound's EXACTLY the same ?
it was ran (as i said in the original post) because it was fun to run, you had to THINK about when you were going to use it. Now nobody is using it at all and its lythe or sprint burst which are 0 brainer abilities. Killers are only happy because they don't have to think about anything now they just m1 and expect the survivor to go down.
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I'm going to copy a comment i made on another similar topic that i think pretty much sums the problems DH had:
1.- Lunge removal.
Lunges, a killer mechanic, gets completely removed from the game when someone is wounded and it has DH. They are completely reactable and you will need to walk into the swing range and start the "mindgame". Some perks cand o that on really certain situations (Bamboozle only on that window IF the killer vaults it and then you know it has it, Deadlock only for 30 seconds and you still can repair other gens, etc). I think people should be aware that removing a mechanic from the game is not healthy at all cough cough Eruption cough.
2.- Passive deterrence.
Remember old ruin? Old NoeD? Times where you need to assume the killer/survivor has a certain perk and you need to act like they had it, just in case.
By DH doing that it means you are, again, removing your lunge until you are certain the survivor doesnt have it, wasting time going into their butts, wasting more time trying to bait it, then swinging. And they even dont have it, but you need to play like they have. At the meanwhile, people are repairing gens while you are losing all this time.
3.- Pallet situation.
I already did talk on this situation about lunging in pallets. Do i lunge? Survivor reacts and DH. Do i just not lunge because of DH? Survivor uses pallet. Win-win situation for survivor, and these cases happen a lot through every game.
Even if we count those cases where killer is not in lunge range but on swing range, we get again to a point where the window where you can hit the survivor after DH and before he throws the pallet is extremely tiny. Doable, but difficult. But the problem is the first case, not this one.
4.- Counterplay to something being "not do anything at all" is not healthy
So, the counterplay to DH is usally, reach the survivor butt and then............do nothing. Literally. Wait until they DH, at the meanwhile, do absolutely nothing. Interactive as hell.
I suppose that when old Eruption did make survivors not being able to do anything for 25 seconds they were having the best time of their lives. Anyways, you could counter old Eruption by doing nothing until it pops, then you didnt got the incap effect. But it wasn't funny, i suppose. And i get it wasnt funny, the same way is not funny on DH case.
5.- Time lost while not doing anything and losing your lunge is a LOT more than people give credit for
People ignore this, but lunging has always been an integral part on how killers down survivors. By losing that, that means that you need to waste some seconds (like 4 seconds or so) by running from the initial lunge distance into the survivor's back. And thats not all, you now need to wait another 2-4 seconds trying to bait DH. That could be like 6-8 seconds that you already lost trying to catch a survivor that otherwise you could have downed already.
Now multiply that for every time the survivor can be on wounded state, 3 times at minium. 18 seconds. Now for every survivor that has DH (on my games are usually 3 DH at minimum). That can be 54 seconds easily (things can change, you can wait a little less or a little more, survivor can go down or successfully hit DH so they win the chase and you need to count another new DH, etc), but it should be a pretty good estimation. 54 seconds of free gen time.
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Some people still use Dead Hard so that part's blatently untrue. Also Sprint Burst does require at least some amount of skill if the survivor wants to use it reliably and not just running away from a gen. If the survivor is using SB with no brain then they're walking everywhere which slows the game down and they're unable to 99 it which is where it gets much of it's strength from.
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it's not exactly big brain thinking 99% SB then running everywhere is it? again that is nothing compared to having to time dead hard right.
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The problem with 99’ing SB is that you can’t do anything but run around & try baiting the killer with it. You can’t heal teammates, you can’t save teammates, you can’t complete gens. All you can do that’s productive is waste the killer’s time and that’s assuming they pursue you. It’s not as strategic as DH.
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If a survivor successfully uses dead hard, and just straight holds w in in a straight line, and doesn't use pallets or windows, they gain 14.4 meters of distance during the killer hit cooldown. The lunge distance on a killer is 6 meters, this means they need to close a gap of 8.4 meters. The killer moves at 4.6 (average) survivor moves at 4.0. This means that the killer gains 0.6 meters per second when chasing. This means to close the gap of 8.4 meters, it will take the killer 14 seconds. So, ok, i was off by one second. But nobody swings at max 6 meters anyway because of reaction time.
So even in the absolute perfectly timed scenario, it adds a minimum of 14 seconds.
What was your point again?
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Instead of greeding pallets and doing high-risk/high-reward strats with DH, my recent games have been the following gameplay pattern:
-Go to safe tile
-Loop twice
-Pre drop
OR
-Get pushed off gen in a deadzone
-Drop unsafe pallet
-Get bloodlusted around said pallet until guaranteed down
Repeat over and over. Totally more enjoyable and def more skillful.
"If DH was so inconsistent why did everyone use it?" DH was vastly used because its one of the only perks in the game with agency which made it fun. It had no pre-reqs aside from getting hit and was a button you press when you predicted a down.
That doesn't mean it wasn't inconsistent, considering how bad ping affects everything. Lunges were the only time it was basically a guaranteed perk. Also, most people didn't know how to DH properly under a pallet, so pretending like it was 100% success is a lie.
But its okay, lets keep nerfing aggressive perks until all we have left are boring non-interactive perks like gen-rushing and pre-running. Then people will act like its a mystery that the game feels so stale.
The only survivor meta that hasn't gotten nerfed at all is gen-rushing, which is arguably more unhealthy than the self-heal and DH metas.
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That is IF it's a successful dead hard , which is not guaranteed. So to say that's the bare minimum dh gives you in general is just, nah
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so if i manage to time a 0.5 second ability perfectly ontop of server lag you're saying I get REWARDED ?
imagine that....
gunslinger times his shot right and he gets REWARDED with a hit
billy curves a corner correctly and times it and he is REWARDED... i could keep going
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I’ve seen Lithe more than anything so far.
But then, I’ve only been playing for two days since my laptop was in repairs for 3 weeks.
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EXACTLY this, but don't try to talk sense. Most of these killers don't want to have to think about what they are doing, they just want to M1 and guarantee a hit.
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It can still be used near a pallet to basically guarantee either a successful dead hard, or a pallet drop.
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even then you're not always gonna be able to make sure you're at a pallet, and even if u do the killer can swing w timing to down u in between the dh and the pallet drop, which ive found to be way more realistic than i had thought tbh
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SB and Lithe are fine, I don’t think they need to be nerfed. Feels more like people are still not willing to accept the DH nerf and trying to paint DH as the lesser of 2 evils in hopes of the nerf being reverted.
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Yeah you can 99 it, but thats just a specific moment in the game. What are you doing if you finish the gen? Are you walking around, because you are expecting the killer to come to the finished gen or are you running to the next gen and use your sb? If you chose the first option, you are slowing yourself down compared to no sb users. If you chose the second option you lose sb if the killer sees you.
"You can 99 it! bait a swing and SB off which could be the equivalent of hitting a dh"
I had to laugh a bit while reading that. SB users are so easy to notice. If the killer really tries to hit you, its not a value of sb...it is a value of the killer being bad.
I really like to go against survivors using sb, because it feels most of the time just weak. Yeah the survivor manages to get to a loop, but he also would have managed it if he just left the gen a few seconds earlier.
I am happy with more sb users, because i can deal with it way better than with dh.
"but you can just bait dh .... blablabla" Nah, you can't compared to sb and lithe you have situations with just no counterplay. There are situations, where a killer needs to attack, if he wants to end the chase. For example at windows and pallets. If the killer knows, he needs to use a long attack to stop the surv from dropping a pallet or vaulting, dh makes the uncounterable play. If the killer doesn't attack, the surv gets the pallet/window, if he does he hits dh.
At the end i just can say, if i see sb i am happy, because if the surv uses it as soon as he sees me, i can try to cut off his way to come closer. If the surv's waiting until i am close to him, it is fine as well, because the distance is round about the same as it would be, if the surv left the gen at the moment he saw me. And i dont have to mind lithe, bl or dh.
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I almost always use dh when playing survivor and it really hit me when it got nerfed.
I’ve gotten to the point where I can live with the nerf if it makes things less frustrating for the killer BUT I would like to see a small improvement made to it where if you miss click or miss your dh for whatever reason, you can get that dh back after no longer being exhausted.
It seems only fair since it’s an exhaustion perk with a 0.5 window, while injured, that can only have 2 possible uses the entire match. I hope it’s something being considered at least.
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Right, so then it becomes a 50/50. Are they gonna dead hard, or keep going and drop the pallet? Also, we are talking about good survivors, not ones that hide in a corner and try to run a z wall. They are always going to make sure they are by a pallet.
So, if dead hard becomes a 50/50, that means 50% of the time it works, and 50% of the time it doesn't. And like i said, at minimum, if you don't do anything, just hold w, it adds 14 seconds to a chase. Now if you factor in you can use pallets and stuff, you are easily extending a chase far beyond what it can do. This is why it was problematic. You run a chase, and the first chase is extremely important. If someone just holds w, it takes ~57 seconds to down the survivor. 29 to find them and hit them the first time, 15 to hit them the second time. 5.7 to pick them up (2.7 attack cooldown + 3 second pickup), 5 seconds to walk to a hook, 1.5 to actually hook them. Now if you dead hard, you add 14 seconds AT MINIMUM to that chase 50% of the time lets say. now that 57 second chase just became 72 seconds. You will not physically have time to walk to another survivor even if ou know exactly where they are before 90 seconds happens.
Meaning you will definitely lose 3 gens now. So 50% of the time you should just immediately lose the game unless the survivors mess up badly and you play like an absolute scumbag because you guessed wrong once?
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