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Does Botany Knowledge still stack with Self-Care?
It feels as if I'm only at 35% healing speed. The perk descriptions have nothing that says the perks do not stack together.
Does anyone know? Healing is still extremely slow?
Answers
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Should stack, but it is BE.
So i don't know
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It should stack. Afaik the 33% penalty only applies to medkits and not self care itself
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Thanks everyone. My thoughts are the same too. However, it definitely does not feel like it has stacked at all..?
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It should stack BUT even with it Self-Care is still cripplingly slow.
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Actually, if you use Self Care without BK, you're throwing because a heal takes 45 seconds that way.
Botany reduces that time to 30 seconds, which is way more accepable. Sloppy increases that time to ~37 seconds.
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Keep in mind that Self-care sets the baseline speed to 35%. BK adds 50% of the baseline speed. It's multiplicative, not additive.
So instead of Self-care + BK being 35% + 50% = 85%, it's 35% x 150% = 52.5%.
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I understand, however, it is ALOT slower. Why is it slower this update than what it is before?
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It should be the same as it was last update.
If it’s not, record a video of it and make a bug report. With Botany, it should take around 30.5 seconds if it’s working correctly.
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It's possible that, instead of a direct nerf to medkits' self-heal rates, all non-altruistic healing speeds were reduced, which would erroneously cripple Self-care as well.
If my theory is correct, then Self-care + Botany should take 45.7 seconds.
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If it’s only 30.5 seconds, and I agree with the math, it probably needs a nerf.
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In this thread Peanits mention positive modifiers were additive. Shouldn't this be the case for BK?
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Self-Care is its own penalty.
More seriously, I've wondered if negating that 33% medkit penalty could be a potential buff to Self-Care. Get medkits to pre-update at the cost of a perk slot.
My other idea is, now matter what healing slowdown is in effect, Self-Care's healing can't be dropped below its 35% base effect.
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We are not nerfing Self-care again.
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It does stack, neither perk should have been changed. That said, math for positive modifiers work a little differently than negative modifiers, so they don't quite cancel each other other (e.g. the 50% increased speed from Botany Knowledge does not cancel out the majority of the 65% speed penalty from Self Care, leaving you with a 15% penalty). The math look something like this:
16 / ((1 + 0.5) * (1 - 0.65)) = 30.47
So you should expect your self heals to take around 30.47 seconds with those two perks equipped, assuming there's nothing like Mangled to slow you down further.
If that's not the case, please be sure to submit a bug report.
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It’s additive only if you assume the base speed is 1. So technically, yes, it would look like this:
(1 + 0.5) * (1 - 0.65) = 0.525
What Self-Care is really doing is it’s applying a -65% healing speed debuff. The other post wrote it out a bit differently, but their answer was correct.
Yeah, that could be possible. I’ll try it in a bit.
If your theory is correct then it would be almost 69 seconds by itself which is beyond atrocious.
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What I think is, Botany is +50% speed, We will make it + 100%, but Selfcare is not -75%, but rather x2.86 of the total time (100/35), Selfcare is the last number of the math.
Self healing is 24sec.
Selfcare makes it 67.2sec (24 x 2.86)
Selfcare + Botany makes it 44.8sec
(100/150)*24 = 16sec
16 * 2.86 = 44.8sec
Even Selfcare + Botany + We will make it still take 27sec.
(100/250)*24 = 9.6sec
9.6 * 2.86 = 27sec
Means its still better to have your teammate heal you or using Medkit, than to selfcare.
Edit: Peanits made the reply before I sent the comment and refresh the page
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I just did 2 survivor games with Botany + Self-Care and it seemed to be working fine. For one of them I also brought a medkit (but still used SC) to make sure that didn't make any difference and in both games it was around 30.5 seconds like it's supposed to be.
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That’s a few seconds short of any Medkit. Probably should be closer to 36 seconds.
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At the cost of 2 of your 4 perk slots, one of which is self care.
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Two perks to rival one item seems like a fair trade to me. If anything, it's kind of still too bad, considering some perks and items are almost one to one- like Saboteur and Toolboxes.
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I agree with you. The only scenario I think it is still worth it is if you're in solo queue and don't want to rely on others to heal you.
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Botany Knowledge isn't just for Self-Care. It also increases your speed of healing others AND picking up downed teammates by 50% (which is huge). I've been using Botany + Self-Care for a while now to replace my old CoH + Exponential/Shadow Step build and it has consistently proved to be a great build. I have to play a more active support role, running to teammates to heal them more, but I also don't need to look for a totem.
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Oh, I agree, I use the combo myself- I'm just saying, if the complaint is that it's only a little slower than a medkit's self heal, it's kind of relevant that it's two perks to match one item, in that specific regard.
Trust me, I'm well aware of how good Botany Knowledge is. It's a very solid perk.
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