so... a thought about the face camp deterrent...
if a survivor unhooks themselves... that's one less time i have to hook them right?
so couldn't i just let them hook farm themselves with a build designed to counter the unhook buffs?
also - how will slippery meat (and similar unhook perks) be adjusted (if at all) to compensate these changes?
are hook pogos still a thing and if so do they shorten the timer?
lots more questions i'm sure, but for now this is enough.
Comments
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We'll see that at PTB
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the flaw of the system is, they are going to be tunneled off the hook anyway.
if the new anti-face-camp system teleports the killer away it would be a much better experience for Survivors.
Post edited by Emeal on7 -
The benefit is that the other survivors don't have to bother rescuing and can slam gens and leave, robbing the killer of 3 kills.
This mechanic isn't going to prevent camping directly as a consequence of the survivor unhooking themselves. It's going to prevent camping indirectly because those who keep doing it will get less favourable results and ultimately give it up except for in endgame or when they can get away with it like in a 3 gen or something.
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Correct and its a terrible solution to face-camping, one survivor will still suffer and I thought that was what we were trying to improve on.
A much better solution would be to teleport the killer to the otherside of map + 10 sec power cooldown, that would give Survivor proper time to reset.
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Teleport killer away? Really?
We definetly couldn't abuse the hell out of this. That's probably one of worst anticamping ideas I have ever seen.
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Im not naive, ofc its up to bHVR to make sure the trigger system works and cant be abused.
But it general practise, this is the best way the game should deal with face-camping. cause in any other way just leaves the Face-camped survivor with the same experience. tunneled off the hook and back on the hook. if we teleport the Killer awway the Survivor gets a full reset and the Killer might learn to play by running into someone else or having to learn by dealing with a full reset survivor.
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That's an absolutely terrible solution.
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Well idd love to know if you have an argument against it, its pretty solid thinking.
- We want to stop survivors having an absolute terrible experience being face-camped by malicious killer players.
- We want Killers who face-camp to learn how to play the game properly, instead of relying on cheap strategy that is terrible to one or two survivors.
these are my points, and I think my Solution of teleporting the killer away and giving them a short power cooldown is going to solve the problem according to the ways we want it to happen.
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Er.. teleporting the killer is the massive argument against it?
Removing player agency, removing the killer from their position and robbing them of all pressure.
Why don't we teleport survivors onto hooks if they're about to finish a gen instead?
Seriously some of the suggestions posted on this forum, make it obvious some of you have never played the other role.
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Not the person you're responding to, I know, but I can take a crack at giving you an argument against it.
On top of being unfairly punishing based on the system as described (since it does still tick up while you're dealing with hook swarms, just slower), there's also the fact that an effect that potent is going to be abused by aware teams. It's difficult to the point of being almost impossible to truly prevent that, which puts a limiter on how extreme the anti-camp measures can be.
To meet you halfway, however, since I do agree just tunnelling a survivor out again is probably going to be too strong, I think stunning the killer for a few seconds (maybe five, old DS?) if the unhook happens would give the survivor time to make distance and make chasing them a very unattractive prospect.
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I'm afraid I cant compromise on this, so many of my friends have stopped playing this game due to face-camping and tunneling combined, so even that 5 second stun wont be enough. That is why I think it way better to allow Survivors a full reset by sending the Killer away. Perhaps a 15sec stun, but no Killer wants to play that way. A teleport and powercooldown is way better, because both players can get back to playing the game.
The problem is that being facecamped is such a bad experience, that bHVR's tiny helping bad is basically a horrible experience, but you get a nice damp towel too to help you. I have debated camping on these forums for a long time and I understand I and bHVR understand the Killer's perspective when it comes to defending proxy camping, but face-camping has to die man. There is no excuse for face-camping other than, the Killer being a noon or malicious. Both ways teleporting them away works because it makes a learning experience for the noob and problem for the malicious player.
You cant claim to be anti-face-camping by just providing free damp towels to its victims. I hope bHVR just hears this out.
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The Killer still has agency, but we are anti-face-camping now so there is no way giving the Survivor a free slef-unhook and endurance and speed buff is going to make the experience better. Its gonna be just Fire Hook Fire Hook Dead. Its just not good enough.
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yeah, but if it happens on multilayer maps (killer wasn't camping), it would suck so much for the killer.
Getting teleported away is big thing, you could easily lose whole game for it.
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correct, but that is up bHVR to ensure, but the alternative of keeping face-camping alive is even worse.
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I dislike that Idea because it would just be so unfun for the killer. Facecamping is tough to change without breaking the game and I'm surprised that they got so close to fixing it.
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would be unfun for the face.camper yeah, for maybe 5 second and then everybody can get back to the game.
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The suggested teleport happens even if the killers not camping. And even if it only happens like 5 seconds after face camping, what if a survivor just runs toward the hook? The killer cant wait to grab them for going for such a dumb unhook mid chase because they get teleported. So their only choice is to back up and let it happen. Its just bad game design.
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Well, that is a problem with hook grabs, that too could also use some work, but that does not really outweigh the benefits of making face-camping the prevented playstyle. And also bHVR have given us their word that they are interested in preserving proxy camping so no reason that would be going.
Keep in mind we dont know the timer yet, we only know what it gives and im here to say that wont be enough.
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Your idea is so horribly broken and Survivor-sided that I hope BHVR never sees it. There's nothing fair about it; It's simply a way to ensure Survivors never lose another match of DBD ever, and is clearly written by someone who's never played Killer.
- Teleporting the Killer away for a free unhook? Already broken. And Survivors can force it by swarming the hook. How biased do you have to be to think Survivors deserve a free unhook simply because they want it?
- Forcing a FIFTEEN SECOND STUN when teleported is ALSO broken as hell. This is not even 'For fairness'. This is 'Because I hate Killers & want them to suffer' and 'I don't play Killer, so I don't care how fun the role is'.
- Imagine trying to RIGHTFULLY defend a hook from Survivors that are nearby, only to be teleported away & stunned for 15 seconds while Survivors heal unopposed.
And if your friends would not come back unless they got such a broken, abusable, horrible idea that would make Killer unplayable & gift-wrap every match in Survivor's favor; Then not much is being lost. Saying 'My friends will only come back if they can never lose' is not really the endorsement for your idea that you think it is.
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You are reading things, that are not written. So yes. Congratulations. You have just shown us straw man fallacy.
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huh? Are you saying those are my ideas?
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Yes, Killer Main to the bone, but I doo chill on Felix from time to time.
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You said the Killer should be teleported. Then you mentioned 'Perhaps a 15sec stun' before admitting no Killer would want that. Which is not admitting the idea is bad, just that Killers would not like it.
Even giving Killers a power cooldown after the teleport would be BS, because certain Killers, like Nurse, rely on their power to even move as a decent speed.
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There was a prerequisite for killer to facecamp. At rather short distance. And he would need to not be alone (because otherwise the new meter is going up too slowly to have effect) for the effect to trigger.
But you conveniently didn't see that.
Don't get me wrong. Emeal's panishment is brutal. But only for (presumably - we haven't seen implementation) brutal gameplay.
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Everyone seems like they play more killer compared to you Gandor.
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Weird. I remember all the discussions where I was adamant current STBFL is basically fine, that wesker should not be nerfed. That trapper, pig, Freddy, .... Should be buffed. That hexes should get buff.
Weird for most survivor-sided person here. Something does not compute
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Why not just teleport hooks rather than killers lol
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cause then you cant save them easily.
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The stun idea was not mine the stun was someone I responded to.
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I still disagree with Emeal's idea, but to be fair, the stun was being raised as an alternative to the teleport, not something in conjunction with it.
It was also my idea, and a shorter stun is something I still think might have merit, though I won't commit to that until I've seen how the system functions on its PTB.
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I disagree with any form of forced movement. Teleports would be a mechanical nightmare. Nevermind void any sort of setup option.
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I say we test the self unhook system. Tbh - if i had things my way… dbd would become f13 2.0 with more survivors, more objectives, and instant kills instead of the down and hook me mechanic.
but i dont see this being that different from someone who uses slippery meat+luck build to get that free unhook. And as someone who used to play slippery ace back in the day (i’m a killer player) i can attest to how dumb it is to jump off hook while the killer is camping you.
it IS better than nothing, but as borrowed time bill would say… “let me do it for you honey”
one of the questions i failed to ask is whether or not this would affect pyramid head’s power. Or if traps from trapper, hag, etc. count as being “nearby”
if bhvr and the community want to solve hook camping… shouldn’t the obvious solution be to slow or pause the sacrifice meter while the killer is near and hide said meter from the survivors hud?
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You may disagree, but I dont see how any way of non forced movement is ever going to make face-camping not a thing to leave the game over, even for new players. Besides its face-camping, are we really holding our hand over one strategy that continuously destroys people will to play the game?
We have a chance here to make the game better for many years to come- and people are like, what about the baby bubbas? ;C
Baby bubbas will be fine they will learn to play eventually.
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Why does literally every conversation about camping bring this idea up. BHVR tried to pause the meter when the killer was nearby and survivors abused the hell out of it, proving it doesn't working and making it so that the mechanic never made it out of PTB. There's no possible way for this to be done in a fair way.
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idk. I don’t have ptb access as a console gamer.
I think pausing the meter makes more sense. How was it abused? Chases and survivors within the hooks range should obviously negate the effect to some degree. I don’t see how else someone could abuse it.
Being hooked and then dealing with a killer waiting out your death timer is what face camping is right?
The killer can interrupt survivors trying to unhook for an instant down.
survivors are expected to have 2-3 chances against a killer. That’s why unhooking survivors is important, but a killer can eliminate a player by camping while ultimately letting the others go.
assuming the survivors don’t have the skills to counter face camping…
self unhooking doesn’t solve the issue of the killer being near the hook. Otherwise - yolo rescues would be viable and this whole conversation wouldn’t be happening.
the bad feeling that players get from face camping is that they’re not allowed to participate in normal gameplay the way they see it should be enacted. Same with tunnelling.
because this new self-unhook feature fails to preserve the life of a survivor and instead forces an action from the survivor it will ultimately fail.
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It was abused Thusly:
- Survivor #1 is hooked
- Survivor #2 and #2 stand outside the 'Hook Radius' in full view of the Killer. Let's say North and South of the hook and 40 Meters away.
- If the Killer goes after #2 to the North; #3 Starts walking/running towards the hook. #2 also runs away, thus not triggering chase music, because he is too far away by the game's standards.
- Killer resets. Survivors #2, & #3 reset. Now, because they were so far away, a chase never started, and Survivor #1 has a paused hook timer.
- Killer goes South after #3, who runs away to avoid a chase starting. #2 runs towards the hook. Still no actual chase music because of distances.
- Killer resets. So do #2 and #3. #1 is still enjoying infinite hook timer.
- And #4 does gens, knowing EXACTLY where the Killer is and feeling NO pressure because #1 cannot actually die.
In this scenario; Survivors are forcing a free unhook through the games ill-thought-out punishment, or otherwise getting infinite hook time.
And the Killer, the so-called 'power role' has 1000000% nothing they can do to defend the hook, even though two Survivors are literally standing out in the open. Because they are too far away to chase.
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i see. bullets 3 and 4.
the issue with this is that the survivors are standing just outside of the hook radius and the killer refuses to engage in a chase.
in other words the killer is refusing to chase. what a lazy killer.
tbh i don't see the issue? if the killer is the power role... then shouldn't the killer be good enough to engage in a second chase?
the whole point of the hook timer is to encourage survivors to help each other quickly and by doing so allow the killer a second easier chase thanks to having a target reveal itself. no more hide and seek while patrolling generators. if the survivors stand in the open - you no longer have a reason to wait by the hook unless you're just trying to cheese the hook by camping - which the community majorly agrees is negative behavior and bad gameplay.
the concept of the killer being the power role is all about the fact that the killer can move faster and injure survivors that are mostly helpless - not stand by a hooked survivor and dare anyone to approach while generators pop all around. the goal is preventing the survivors escape through generator denial. sacrifices are just how you end the game.
someone is putting the buggy before the horse.
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