The Onryō: Why she's underwhelming and how to fix her [A Deep Dive]
The Issues
As you can probably guess from my username, I main Onryō and have done pretty much since she released back in March 2022. I switched from playing mostly Nurse for around 5 years to Onryō due to being an avid Ring fan, and wanting a little more challenge out of playing killer. To say it was a dramatic shift would be an understatement! We've now had over a year to play with her and let her settle into the game, and I feel that after 1000+ hours of playtime with her, on both PC and console, I have some feedback I'd like to share, so hopefully she can get the attention she needs (and deserves)! I'll start with a little justification of why I feel The Onryō needs reassessing.
A Flawed Power:
The Onryō is what I'd call a Jack of all trades and master of none. She's a killer, whose basekit power provides a number of different utilities, much like The Pig and The Nightmare, but each of these utilities is decidedly mediocre. She has:
- Map traversal from Projection that is hindered by one of the longest cooldowns in the game and inconsistent TV spawns. Comparable killers such as Dredge do not share such a harsh cooldown.
- Stealth from Demanifestation that is nullified by an overbearing lullaby. Lullabys make sense for killers like Huntress who can strike at a distance, so an early warning doesn't hurt them too much. However, The Onryō has no consistent chase ability. To warn survivors that a stealthy killer is near defeats the purpose of their power.
- Built-in slowdown from requiring survivors to transport VHS Tapes. This should provide a significant slowdown but almost never does. TVs have such a long cooldown and Condemnation is so difficult to apply that experienced survivors know they aren't a threat and will leave them alone. Even when survivors do pick up Tapes, their corresponding TVs are often not far away.
- Lethality from Condemnation that virtually never comes into play because of the long Projection cooldown, TVs spawning too far away from objectives, and ease of removing Condemnation stacks for survivors. Even if you manage to fully condemn a survivor, there's no guarantee that you'll actually be able to down and kill them since she has little to no chase power.
A Mixed Bag of Add-ons:
The Onryō has a bizarre mix of add-ons that mostly range from useless to mediocre, with one or two that are incredibly powerful and even problematic. These strong add-ons make her power in the roster difficult to assess. Basekit, she's decidedly a weak killer, but with specific builds she can quickly climb the tierlist and rival stronger killers. It seems nonsensical to say, but this is one of the factors that's actually hindering The Onryō from being better. With these add-ons, she cannot be buffed or else Onryōs running those builds would be far too oppressive. Nerfing these troublesome add-ons, and distributing their strength across some of her weaker add-ons would massively benefit The Onryō in the long run, giving her a much better, more diverse, and more fun kit.
Unreliable RNG:
The outcome of a match as Onryō relies a great deal on the map you get as well as where her TVs spawn. It's not widely known, but there is a rule in the game that massively hurts her in relation to this:
- If a TV spawns within 16 m of a generator, the next TV will attempt to be spawned further away.
This seems relatively minor, but when you consider the following it seems rather illogical:
- The threshold for a survivor to receive a stack of Condemned after Projection is 16 m. Therefore, TVs that spawn over 16 m away from generators will not be useful in applying your power.
- Projection is acommpanied by a map-wide sound effect that tells the survivors you've teleported, as well as the noisy animation of Sadako crawling out of the TV. Combined with the fact that Projection only grants 1 second of Undetectable, you only have a very narrow window to catch a survivor off-guard. If TVs are spawning far away from generators, you're not going to be able to follow up with a surprise attack.
Maps with a variety of floors/altitudes are also a common pain point for The Onryō's TVs. It's not uncommon for TVs to spawn on the wrong floors, the outskirts of the map, or even behind breakable walls. A number of main structures seemingly never spawn a TV, making them very safe places for survivors to run to. A few of the worst examples of bad TV spawn logic are:
The Onryō: Unique, Iconic, and... Surprisingly Strong?
It's safe to say that The Onryō is a unique and iconic character. She's often regarded as having some of the best visual and sound design in the whole game, and the media she's based off are some of the most influential books and movies in the horror genre! It's a shame such a legendary character is so uncommon to come across in game. I'm aware that there are a number of dedicated Onryō players out there (myself included), so I wouldn't want to change the overall feel of the killer, just give her some tweaks that drastically improve quality of life for Sadako players.
I should also note that I am aware of the rather surprising statisitcs that were released in September of 2022 (source: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/350586/stats-kill-rate-by-killer-and-mmr-september-2022#:~:text=As%20stated%20in%20our%20most,%25%20to%2053%25%20range).), in which (across all MMRs) Sadako had one of the highest kill rates in the game: 63%. She also had a respectable 61% kill rate at the top 5% of MMR, so why is there a consensus that she's not a top tier killer? While I cannot definitively explain the seemingly anomalous kill rates without much more data and concrete evidence (which is hard to come by in Dead by Daylight), I can give a few possible explanations as to why she seems to do so well, despite her numerous issues:
- Relatively low pick rate (2.58%): The Onryō has a much smaller pick rate than the more popular killers, such as Legion and Mastermind. It's possible that the majority of the people picking her, are those who have learned the ins and outs of her power and dedicated A LOT of time to practicing killer. Therefore, they're able to still perform well despite her shortcomings. The seeming complexity of her kit can be a detterant to newer players, which prevents inexperienced players from picking her up and dragging down the kill rate.
- Complex kit: The Onryō's power is multifaceted which can be intimidating and confusing for less experienced survivors. There's been a number of occasions when I've seen survivors pick up tapes and let themselves get fully Condemned, unaware of how her power works. Inexperienced survivors inflating kill rates, combined with MMR that is notoriously unrepresentative of skill could explain a higher than expected kill rate. These stats were released ~6 months after the DLC dropped, which isn't a huge deal of time in the grand scheme of things. It would be interesting to see more up to date statistics on kill rates!
- Strong builds: A number of specific strategies exist that allow you to (rather artificially) force value from Condemnation. These were popularised by content creators when Sadako Rising came out, leading to a lot of people playing her with her strongest builds and tactics. Combining Iridescent Videotape, Ring Drawing, and slugging can guarantee Condemned kills against unwary survivors. However, the playstyle is rather boring and doesn't allow for a lot of point gain (since you aren't hooking you don't get a lot of Sacrifice points, and survivors can't unhook to get Altruism points). Tape Editing Deck combined with chasing survivors backwards is borderline exploitative, but allows you to rack up Condemned on survivors while chasing them (which is something the game does not usually permit). The prevalence of these overtuned strategies may be contributing to an inflated kill rate.
- Strong perk: One of The Onryō's unique perks is Call of Brine which, until a recent nerf, caused damaged generators to regress at 200% speed. This was a powerful tool that allowed killers to slowdown the game significantly, especially combined with other slowdown perks. Perhaps the introduction of a new slowdown-oriented meta took some adjusting to for survivors.
The Solution
Considering everything we've discussed so far, I think the changes can be grouped into three categories:
- Basekit Adjustments
- Improved TV Spawn Logic
- Add-on Pass
For the sake of clarity and brevity, I'll list my suggested changes in the style of patch notes. Any explanations/justifications will be explained below in italics.
Basekit Adjustments:
- Decreased Post-Projection cooldown by 40 seconds (for a cooldown of 60 seconds).
- Increased Turn-off Cooldown and Tape-play Cooldown by 30 seconds (for a cooldown of 90 seconds).
- While demanifested, the lullaby is map wide.
This change essentially flips the cooldowns between The Onryō disabling a TV via Projection and survivors turning off TVs, with the latter now being the longer and more impactful one. In this way, survivors are more greatly encouraged to retrieve tapes and waste time transporting them, giving Sadako some much needed slowdown. A cooldown of 90 seconds helps to prevent 3-gen situations, which is a strategy that has been on the rise as of late. Changing the lullaby from 24 m to map wide lets survivors know to be on guard but doesn't give The Onryō's exact position away, granting a stealthy approach against unobservant survivors.
- Hitting a survivor within 6 seconds of Projection will give the survivor +1 stack of Condemnation.
This rewards the killer for strategic use of TVs to catch survivors off guard, while not allowing lazy killers to simply passively teleport to TVs in hopes of an easy kill. Currently, good survivors will often finish objectives in your face while you're Projecting - aware that only one stack of Condemnation is not very threatening. Now, they'll have to decide what is more worth it - should I pop the generator if it means I'll take a hit and get another stack or should I run and get a head start in a chase? Without being able to test these changes in a PTB, it's really hard to assess how strong they'd be. I imagine that a shorter Projection cooldown and easier way of applying Condemnation could quickly get out of hand - so perhaps just one of these changes would be adequate.
Improved TV Spawn Logic:
A few rules/alterations to existing rules would help to eliminate the role of RNG and chance in determining the outcome of a match:
- If a TV spawns within 16 m of a generator, the game will attempt to spawn the next TV further away UNLESS that would result in the TV spawning on a different elevation than the generator.
- A main structure containing a generator will ALWAYS spawn a TV.
I do think a distance threshold rule should still exist, to prevent every TV from spawning immediately next to generators - which would prove frustrating and unfun for survivors. However, with these changes I think the rule will be more fair for the killer on maps like Backwater Swamp, without changing TV spawns on maps that are currently fair.
Add-on Pass:
I'm only going to list the add-ons I'd change, the rest I feel are okay to leave as they currently are with the previous changes considered:
- Cabin Sign (common): Reduces the time it takes for a TV to turn on after being turned off by a survivor by -12 seconds.
- Well Stone (uncommon): Looking at powered on TVs will cause survivors to passively gain Condemnation.
- Sea-Soaked Cloths (uncommon): Survivors within 16 metres of a powered TV suffer from the Blindness status effect. This effect lingers for 7 seconds after the TV is turned off.
- Ring Drawing (rare): Condemned survivors who are rescued from a hook spread a stack of Condemnation to their rescuer.
- Rickety Pinwheel (rare): Survivors within 16 metres of a powered TV suffer from the Exhausted status effect. This effect lingers for 7 seconds after the TV is turned off.
- Mother's comb (rare): Increases the distance for a TV to play a Tape by +2 metres. Increases the distance at which Projection applies a stack of Condemned by +2 metres.
- Telephone (very rare): Manifesting within 16 m of a survivor afflicts them with the Hindered status effect for 7 seconds.
- Distorted Photo (very rare): Survivors witnessing The Onryō Manifest scream, revealing their location for 4 seconds.
- Remote Control (ultra rare): The auras of TVs playing a Tape are highlighted to you in yellow.
- Iridescent Videotape (ultra rare): Hitting a survivor within 8 seconds of Projection turns on 4 disabled TVs.
The End!
This was a long post, thank you for your time if you made it this far! Of course this is all just my own opinion, and as a Ring fan I'm obviously going to have a large bias in wanting Sadako to be a stronger killer! I wrote this while tired, so you'll have to forgive me if the formatting is off or some of it doesn't make sense. If you have any thoughts feel free to let me know and see you all in the fog. 😀
EDIT: I think I accidentally posted this in General Discussions, when I meant to put it in Feedback and Suggestions. It would probably be better suited there, apologies.
EDIT 2: Just noticed this has been moved to Feedback and Suggestions, thank you mods!
Comments
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But what builds are you finding them running? And how often do you encounter them? I rarely see Onryōs, and when I do they're almost always running the same few add-ons and builds. It's usually either:
- Iridescent Videotape + Ring Drawing
- Tape Editing Deck + Ring Drawing
- Reiko's Watch + a full build of slowdown perks
The proposed changes certainly aren't perfect, but aim to make The Onryō a more versatile killer, with a less predictable kit. Knowing what you're up against as soon as you load in takes the fun out of the game IMO.
You're right that she can be very powerful. I don't mean to make her overbearing, in fact I think these changes would provide more avenues for interactive counterplay than there currently exists. As it stands, the most effective way to beat Onryō is to do nothing - never touch TVs and never transport Tapes. I think that's poor design personally, but I respect your opinion.
(Edited to include the rest of my comment; I accidentally sent it without writing everything).
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Onepumpwilly plays iridescent tape+bloody finger nails. I remember someone posting a video on forums at one point and I commented on the forum post at one point about slugging ring drawing Sadako. at the time of the post, I was just trying to learn Sadako because everyone kept saying she sucked. she had no redeeming qualities and was the worst killer in the game. I don't understand why the add-on suddenly need a change? Your proposal of the add-on add 2 total condemn stacks for hooking. what is the point of the add-on at that point? you will kill survivors faster by hooking then you will by applying condemn.
that's one of major issues with condemn in general for Sadako. Killer powers are suppose to be boon to the killer. An advantage but sadako's condemn mechanic is not a boon. it is more like alternative way of winning that strangely enough can be worse then just normal hooking because of how slow condemn build up is.
you can apply that logic to all her powers. they give you mobility, but really cannot use it to any good degree with TV and telegraphed sounds when emerging out of a TV for ambush disregarding the long cooldown itself. you get strange invisible flickering at loops to try to mix-up the survivor but it is not really there because invisible is duration is pretty short along with her movement speed reduction when manifesting. you get stealth but it is not really stealth because of lullaby. Overall there does not seem to be much interest in improving her. only interest in detracting what little unique gameplay exists for her.
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"I don't understand why the add-on suddenly need a change?"
In it's current state, Ring Drawing encourages slugging survivors and completely ignoring hooks. Slugging is not fun, hurts solo queue disproportionately more than SWF, results in lower point gain for the survivors and the killer (since you don't get hooking/unhooks), and should therefore be reserved for occasionally gaining pressure - not slugging every survivor you meet for the entirety of the match. Promoting a playstyle in which you completely ignore the core gameplay mechanics is not healthy.
I play a lot of survivor too, and getting found early, downed, and left to slowly bleed out is not fun. And then to add insult to injury, as soon as you get picked up, you get hit and go down again because your solo queue teammates don't take protection hits. And then it's back to four minutes of nothing. Virtually every time I run Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing, someone DCs for that exact reason - and I empathise with them.
It's a widely held opinion in the community that slugging Sadako needs toned down or reworked. Many, myself included, would argue that this specific playstyle is what's holding her back from being in a better spot. They can't buff any other aspect of her kit so long as this playstyle stands, or otherwise it'd be way too strong. So she's stuck with this being one of her few viable options.
"what is the point of the add-on at that point"
The problem is you're thinking of Condemned only in terms of its lethality, and not for its potential as a slowdown mechanic. The reworked Ring Drawing would cause survivors to gain stacks when unhooking, which combined with a few good Projections would quickly cause them to rack up Condemnation. Survivors would then have to transport Tapes, providing you with built-in slowdown that'd help a killer without a chase power keep up in the game. Not to mention, that with the basekit changes I suggested, it would be easier to inflict Condemned through normal gameplay. You'd no longer have to artificially force it through add-ons, slugging, chasing backwards etc., which feels very cheap to be on the receiving end of.
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Even when survivors do pick up Tapes, their corresponding TVs are often not far away.
I am not entirely sure what type of slowdown your expecting from this mechanic. You take like few second to pull out a tape out of TV and you walk to the TV. You even state in your original post that the mechanic takes little time to do. The mechanic is not slowdown. It is survival.
Virtually every time I run Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing, someone DCs for that exact reason - and I empathise with them.
I get disconnects without slugging with other killers. Sometimes even on first downs. The survivor community is entitled. Perhaps your seeing the add-on because its only thing that is effective. People probably read my comment long ago. They tried it and saw effectiveness of the killer. I have played against it and I do not see any issues. Fun itself is subjective as well. Losing in general is not fun for most players. Slugging is form of progressive over-time losing. A principal in multiplayer games is that when one player has fun winning. The other player has less fun from losing.
They can't buff any other aspect of her kit so long as this playstyle stands, or otherwise it'd be way too strong.
Oh, so the killer is strong. Then it must not need any changes. right? Your implying that the killer is already at perfect spot because any further improvement is as you say too strong.
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I'm a Sadako main myself and I love every single suggestion on here. This is an incredibly well-thought out post and I hope the devs see this and take these suggestions into consideration, since they address every problem I and many of her mains have with her. Thank you for bringing up TV placements - it's a big problem that nobody seems to acknowledge - and for suggesting to increase the lullaby's range instead of removing it; a lot of people underrate its mindgame possibilities, so changing the lullaby after the visual terror radius addition instead of completely removing it is definitely the best choice. I always thought she needed basekit Brutal Strenght when demanifested, but your "breaking pallets when manifesting" proposal is much better, and probably even more balanced since it requires good timing.
The only thing I disagree with is the Ring Drawing change (I absolutely agree that it shouldn't apply Condemned stacks to slugged survivors though). I think so because when taking into consideration your basekit Condemn buff (Condemned is applied when teleporting + when hitting shortly after a teleport), which is absolutely needed, having Ring Drawing work on unhooks might become a bit too oppressive, since as of now you can hook next to a TV and teleport right after the unhook, giving a Condemned stack to both of them. If your basekit changes were to go through, then I think Ring Drawing would be better left as it is with the exception of slug pickups. Without taking your basekit change suggestions into consideration, then I'd agree with giving that buff to Ring Drawing (buffed basekit is the better outcome though).
You should definitely try to get this moved to Feedback and Suggestions
The problem is that Sadako as a killer can be super strong and oppressive only when having a couple of the same add-on combos equipped. Applying Condemned without Ring Drawing is extremely hard (technically possible, but it's so hard and time consuming it's basically never worth it, and obviously its progress could be deleted at any given time by the survivor) and her basekit time cooldowns makes it so that Condemned is straight up ignored the majority of the time, when that add-on is not used. OP's proposed changes wouldn't make her a stronger killer to face than the Sadakos you currently see; it would just mean they don't have to have an Iridescent and a Rare add-on equipped all the time in order to actually use her powers.
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I am not entirely sure what type of slowdown your expecting from this mechanic.
The slowdown that comes with forcing survivors to stop repairing a generator, retrieve a VHS Tape, run to a separate location on the map, insert the tape, and then run back to their generator. The reason this is currently ineffective at slowdown is because survivors never actually need to do it. In a game against the average Onryō, you rarely get enough Condemned stacks to warrant survivors needing to remove some. If Condemned becomes easier to apply (as per my suggestions), survivors will need to be more mindful of their status and transport Tapes when it gets too high - thus slowing the game down. An individual Tape Transport takes little time to do, but multiple survivors doing it multiple times per game adds up!
Perhaps your seeing the add-on because its only thing that is effective.
That is exactly why The Onryō needs a rework... A killer should have more than one viable playstyle. As it stands, this is the only way to consistenly guarantee Condemned kills, and requires a dedicated build and a specific playstyle of slugging. That's bad game design.
Your implying that the killer is already at perfect spot because any further improvement is as you say too strong.
Not what I implied at all. I'm saying they cannot buff any of her kit, otherwise it will make her slugging playstyle specifically too strong. If they tone down her slugging playstyle, they're then free to buff the rest of her kit, meaning it won't be the "only thing" that is effective anymore.
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Thank you! I really appreciate you taking the time to read through all this!
I agree that TV placements is something that's really under-discussed. I don't think I've ever seen someone mention it before so I felt like I should throw my two cents out here. Also agree about your assessment of the Ring Drawing add-on.
Not sure how to go about getting this moved to feedback and suggestions, I guess we'll have to wait until a mod sees it and moves it to the appropriate place?
EDIT: Just noticed that you mentioned breaking pallets while Manifesting. While that isn't one of my listed suggestions, it is something I've considered a lot too. The ability for The Onryō to walk through pallets, vaults, and breakable walls has floated around in discussions before as well, but I'm not sure how I'd balance it so I chose to omit it. I have to admit it would be fun to play with though! I'm also currently reading through a rework suggestion posted by @TechnoTheFirst, which features that idea and is definitely worth checking out. Great to see so much constructive discussion about my favourite killer!
Post edited by OnryosTapeRentals on1 -
That is exactly why The Onryō needs a rework... A killer should have more than one viable playstyle.
There is another play-style available. It is called hooking survivors. Ignoring condemn mechanic entirely. It is no better then playing an m1 killer with no power but it does work for every killer.
I'm saying they cannot buff any of her kit, otherwise it will make her slugging playstyle specifically too strong. If they tone down her slugging playstyle, they're then free to buff the rest of her kit, meaning it won't be the "only thing" that is effective anymore.
The other aspects of her kit are meant to go on top of the already existing playstyle of condemn. As we going by your wording. Buffing the rest of her kit aspects would be too strong. that is why there has been no revisions for her. she is already in the perfect spot that is most acceptable by the community without causing complaints.
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Ignoring condemn mechanic entirely
Ignoring a killer's power entirely doesn't really constitute a playstyle for them but I'll humour you.
The other aspects of her kit are meant to go on top of the already existing playstyle of condemn.
So The Onryō has a grand total of... two ways to play her? One of which involves completely ignoring her power? Colour me unimpressed. Compare this to a character like Wraith, who has a multide of viable strategies:
- You can lean into his stealth with add-ons like Coxcombed Clapper, allowing you to play as a hit and run killer.
- You can make him very powerful in a chase using Shadow Dance paired with The Serpent add-ons, allowing for a more agressive playstyle.
- You can use Windstorm and a generator defence build to boost his map pressure to exceptional levels.
- Or you can use some of his more unique add-ons like The Ghost for interesting mindgames.
That stacks up to 5 ways to play him at least (counting your playstyle of ignoring a killer's power completely). Killers should not be shoehorned into a specific style of play, because it's the only way to get results. There should be more opportunity for variety and creativity in builds.
As we going by your wording. Buffing the rest of her kit aspects would be too strong.
I've already explained what I meant by this. The more you reiterate this, the more it looks like you're intentionally misinterpreting what I'm saying.
she is already in the perfect spot that is most acceptable by the community without causing complaintsshe is already in the perfect spot that is most acceptable by the community without causing complaints
We must run in different circles of the DbD community because most of the people I've spoken to about The Onryō echo the same sentiments: she's relatively weak and has problematic add-ons.
If you don't like my suggestions that's fine! I just can't say I understand the reasonings behind your opinion though. Sorry.
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Every killer has 1 play-style. those are not 5 play-styles for wraith. what is different is how you modify a single play-style with add-on's. The add-on suppose add some spice to the killer gameplay. most of the modification to add-on is some slight statistic improvement to the killer power up to the killer preference. Like windstorm add-on for wraith slightly improve his movement speed, swift hunt slightly improves his uncloak speed. sometimes add-on adds a minor effect to the power like blind warrior add-on that add mangled. Regardless of what you add to the killer for spice, the killer identity often remains the same excluding some bizarre add-on's such as Scratch Mirror Myer's and Waterlogged shoe hag.
Onryo's iri tape and ring drawing bottleneck her add-on selection because her base-kit mori is inadequate condemn build-up. this is little bit like Wraith where Wraith players would often say that windstorm was a bottleneck add-on because his cloaking felt lackluster. that is why they added purple windstorm to his base-kit and suddenly there outrage that he was suddenly over tuned as quoted by the developer in a particular update. I do not see them adding ring drawing or iri tape to Onryo's base-kit because there is little interest in adding a mori mechanic to the killer. Survivor would be outraged by the Mori.
Just like other killers Onryo has bunch of add-on that slightly modify small parts of her kit. you list a lot of them in your original post. Remote control adds aura reading to her kit. I believe purple add-on is distorated photo? I think that add-on is suppose to be anti-stealth, so more anti-stealth detection. purple telephone add-on gives hindered so it improves her chase. Not to go through entire add-on list but all of those add-on some slight improvement to her kit but since her kit has bad base-values on almost everything. there is little incentive to use any of them.
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Every killer has 1 play-style
This is just objectively not true.
those are not 5 play-styles for wraith
Yes the add-ons enhance particular parts of his kit, which means players running them will focus on predominantly using the enhanced parts of his kit to get the best value from their add-ons. It would be illogical for someone running The Beast add-on to play him as a stealth killer, whereas Coxcombed Clapper greatly enhances his stealth ability so will see a lot of use for stealthy play. These are different ways to play him, i.e. different playstyles.
I do not see them adding ring drawing or iri tape to Onryo's base-kit because there is little interest in adding a mori mechanic to the killer
You don't see them adding this because it's one of the worst ideas imaginable, nothing to do with a disinterst in a mori mechanic. These add-ons encourage slugging, a strategy which the developers have acknowledged themselves is unfun. They've even trialed a number of strategies to directly counter it.
Survivor would be outraged by the Mori.
Do you not play survivor? If so, why would you be outraged if (according to you) it's fine and fun. And if not, then I don't really think it's fair for you to speak on the behalf of survivors.
but all of those add-on some slight improvement to her kit
To call them a slight improvement is to massively overstate their usefulness. The vast majority of her add-ons are horrendous, and provide considerably less value than equivalent-rarity add-ons for most of the other roster. Why have a killer with only two add-ons that are actually decent, when you could distribute their strength and have 20 add-ons that are fun and useful?
since her kit has bad base-values on almost everything. there is little incentive to use any of them.
You're somehow staring the point in the face but still missing it. So you acknowledge that The Onryō's basekit has bad values, and her add-ons are also mostly bad with little incentive to use them, so why on earth would you not want them buffed/reworked?
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i play a lot of sadako too. personally I’d like to see maybe improvements to her periodic invisibility as using that around loops to outsmart survivors can be very fun. I like the global lullaby idea but for me personally i just think it should be 8 meters. Maybe the global lullaby could be an addon. There’s a lot of people who say that she should be able to walk through pallets and vaults when demanifested and although I don’t entirely agree I do really want to see that in action. I also just wish she could manifest faster and not get slowed while doing it. I love the cool sound it makes and stuff but from a gameplay standpoint it takes a bit too long and can get in the way when trying to mindgame with your flickers. Also i wish bloody fingernails was basekit the speed you get from teleporting by default is so bad. I really like all the change suggestions in this. especially the tv spawns. good job.
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I also think that would be a really great option for improving her. She has some decent potential for mindgames using her periodic invisibility, but like you said Manifestation takes just slightly too long for it to be worthwhile doing at a lot of loops. Perhaps making the Reiko's Watch add-on basekit would be a good buff to improve her chase potential, or a slight number buff to Manifestation time?
As for walking through pallets, vaults etc. while demanifested, I agree with you. I think it would be really fun to see in action - maybe on like a PTB, but I'm not certain it's the right way to take her power.
Thank you for your comment! :)
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I don't like the idea of disabling TVs taking 90 seconds. 70, sure. But not 90, because keep in mind, when disabling and then inserting a tape into a TV, you're not disabling one TV. You are potentially disabling two, as inserting a Tape into a live TV counts as disabling it. That, to me, is a bit excessive.
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Yes the add-ons enhance particular parts of his kit, which means players running them will focus on predominantly using the enhanced parts of his kit to get the best value from their add-ons.
The killer is the same regardless of what add-on you equip 99% of the time. As I said, add-on are just spice for killer.
It would be illogical for someone running The Beast add-on
you named one add-on that wraith has that changes his gameplay though I am not entirely sure why anyone would equip it.
These add-ons encourage slugging, a strategy which the developers have acknowledged themselves is unfun
Unfun is subjective opinion.
Do you not play survivor? If so, why would you be outraged if (according to you) it's fine and fun.
m1 killer. easy killer to loop. non-threaten mechanic for good players.
The vast majority of her add-ons are horrendous
functionally, the add-on are ok. they are plagued by usual dbd safe numbers that is common for killers in general. just to give an example. The remote control add-on shows you aura's whenever a survivor carries a tape after projection. aura reading is really good. nothing wrong with the add-on functionality. safe aspect of this add-on is that you have to be within 16 meters to see aura. It is like why is there a range limit for seeing aura? why is it not just global? shouldn't iri add-on be like... useful? Just dbd things I guess. Like I said, her main mechanic which is condemn mechanic to instant kill mori survivors with 0 hook-states is poorly balanced that ring drawing and iri-tape bottleneck her add-on selection. Like you physically cannot use her power to produce results without at least one of these add-on's. that is why you see those add-on a lot as survivor.
So you acknowledge that The Onryō's basekit has bad values, and her add-ons are also mostly bad with little incentive to use them, so why on earth would you not want them buffed/reworked?
Because they don't need rework. they functionally improve her kit but the base numbers are poorly balanced. there is a lot of obvious restrictions in her add-on to ensure in her add-on to limit their effectiveness. I agree they need buffs but her base-kit has bigger problems then add-on's. As you have stated, you do not enjoy going against her Mori nor do you enjoy slugging which is part of her play-style. As a result, there has been no announced plan changes to change her as survivor dislike going against her gameplay.
Of course the character will not be deleted but you can keep the character super weak. That is kinda like being deleted? Right? Your in the game but your not very popular in the game. Kinda like Twins. Deleted without being deleted. Hard to explain.
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Thanks for the feedback! Perhaps a good revision for this would be to keep the Turn-off cooldown at 90 seconds but change the Tape-play cooldown to 60 seconds. That way, only the TV(s) you intentionally turned off (and not the random one the game takes you to to insert a tape) would have the longer cooldown.
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I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I appreciate you taking the time to explain your viewpoints further, and for your contributions to the discussions! I understand your point better now, but I still err on the side of the add-ons needing a rework. See you in the fog!
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Good recommended changes. It is kinda of sad that Sadako using her power via tv interaction hurts her more than Survivors.
Surprisingly, , Rickety Pinwheel and Sea soaked Cloth along with a manifested walking Sadako that doesn’t TP works occasionally in some matches.
Survivors expect the lullaby or the manifestation before getting hit, giving them ample time to react, but the oblivious effect means that they will not be able to see a manifested Sadako walking into them at a gen especially with LOS blockers, catching them off guard.
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Rickety Pinwheel and Sea-soaked Cloth is a build I've played around with quite a lot. I've found it to be pretty hit or miss though. Either I get a few grabs early on which gets me decent pressure, or the survivors are just too observant to get any value.
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