How do you guys feel about “Killer-sided” maps?
I’ve noticed that most of the discourse around map design is centered around reworking problematic “Survivor-sided” maps such as Garden of Joy, Mother’s Dwelling, old Eyrie, Cowshed, Badham, etc. It’s pretty difficult to defend these maps in good faith balance-wise.
However, in my observation, I don’t really see people in the community advocating for changes to “Killer-sided” maps like Midwich, Dead Dawg Saloon, Lery’s, old Shelter Woods, etc.
I’m curious as to why this is the case. Is it because even the most “Killer-sided” maps are perceived to be relatively balanced and unproblematic? Could it be that there is less consensus about which maps are considered to be “Killer-sided”? Or could it be that my observation is incorrect and there actually is vibrant discourse about changing the “Killer-sided” maps?
Thanks for taking the time out to read and I look forward to hearing from the community.
Comments
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I'd say that there are simply fewer maps that are significantly more killer sided than there are survivor sided. And even then, they usually boil down simply to the size of the map. A map being small is a huge advantage for killer. The prime example probably being Dead Dawg. Although the main building and shack are good for survivor (as long as the breakable walls are still up in main), a large percentage of that map is either empty or really bad filler pallets.
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Maps are supposed to be for survivors imo, killer-sided maps are usually terrible and not fun to play on.
I get that Cowshed was bad for killer, but damn the rework for it is terrible.
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Scratched Mirror Myers and Spooky Wraith do well in it too. That’s about it.
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I dont think both sides equate when it comes to what makes a favorable map or in how the opposition has to address the obstacles they present.
Survivor maps usually consist of very large areas with wide gen spread, a multitude of strong pallets, linkable loops, and lots of LOS breaking objects.
Killer maps tend to be small with minimal gen spread, some pallets that can't be looped, loops which can't easily be linked, and dead zones where stealth becomes the primary tactic for survivors.
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Usually boring. Those maps usually have less real tiles, like dead dawg and midwich.
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Because killer mains are hypocrites who just want easy 4Ks? In all seriousness… You’ll find more complaints about killer-sided maps on DBD Twitter or even Reddit than here. The user base of this forum leans killer.
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i was thinking the same. lerys is endless window into endless window...if the team can loop u just gonna get torture because most of the killers power need a second to charge not just the range killers. The fax that u can turn a corner every second make using most killers power very difficult.
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In my eyes and through the history of dbd, its usually survivor sided maps that get reworked to be more balanced. And i mean way back in the day when loops were nearly infinite as well.
Now they are going with making larger maps a bit smaller for some reason. Which sucks because it will tip it over a bit to the killer side. But they are trying to add more resources in those smaller maps. Even giving pallets where dead zones used to be.
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Old Shelter Woods was constantly complained about. Dead Dawg might be killer sided for the most part, but it has one of the strongest main buildings in the game so it balances out I guess. Lery's is only killer sided for some killers and one of the worst maps for others, so I don't think it's really killer sided.
Midwich is probably the most killer sided map but that's still killer dependant. For instance Nurse is basically a guaranteed 4K, but Trapper or Deathslinger struggle.
It's harder to complain about killer sided maps because it's dependant on the killer they are playing.
And might just be me, but playing on Midwich or Salon as survivor does not feel anywhere near as bad as playing Killer on Garden or Borgo...
Probably an unpopular opinion but as Ghostface I hate Lery's. Yes you can get some sneaky hits, but there's no good sight lines to stalk people. Every gen is constantly blocked behind a wall or object so you either have to get real close to stalk or go out of your way to go to a different path to stalk. I personally prefer The Game as Ghostface to Lery haha.
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Fine
I just wish people on my team would stop using killer sided map offerings because it’s basically a troll
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Most killer sided maps are only killer sided for certain killers or killer archetypes, and in a way that can't be corrected.
For example, maps that favour stealth killers, work against 'rush' killers like Billy/Blight.
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i don't feel any different with them than i do with "survivor-sided" maps. i just see them as playing fields to navigate and try my best to get better each time i play an iteration of it. some maps i'm personally not a fan of because of invisible walls stopping me from flying and shredding 😭but overall my experience is to just spawn in and do the best i can!
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Midwich is probably the only true killer sided map in the game, with Shelter Woods being a close second.
Theyre small, and resources are limited.
An honorary mention would be Saloon but that one has issues that greatly turn the favor to one side or the other, the size and gen spread towards killer with the main building towards survivors.
Every other map is either obnoxiously survivor sided or even.
Granted, all maps should be as even as possible.
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You don't have to be a biased killer main to recognize that most maps favor survs, a few are neutral, and like 2-3 truly favor the killer (Dead Dawg, Midwich). That's just the reality of it.
And I don't really care that much, except for the really egregious offenders (Cowshed, which might as well be a fifth survivor, and Mother's Dwelling come to mind). Most of them are within a tolerable range.
Of course there are maps that really screw specific killers or killer types, but generally they're not that bad. And I think there should be some variance, just not to the degree we see in many cases.
That said, map balance (or lack thereof) is the cause of many of the games fundamental problems. Of course the trick is balancing the maps without making the S tier killers even more oppressive (primarily that abomination, Nurse).
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Two reasons really. Firstly maps are specifically desgined to help survivors and killer sided maps are ones that do a worse job at that. Most aspects of a map such as loops, walls and size are factors that benefit survivors so a large psychological factor plays into this. More imporantly while the factors that hurt killers are pretty consistent (size and loop strength being the main two), factors that help killers are different. Some killers like wide open maps where ranged attacks and mobility are unrestricted while other killers like a lot of walls and line of ight blockage to be stealthy. Some killers like multiple floors such as Nurse, Skull Merchant or Freddy because they are hindered less by them while survivors will find it more difficult to traverse because of it while other killers like Hillbilly or Legion are hindered by this because it makes traversal harder for them. Even smaller maps tend to have a higher density of loops which some weaker chase killers like Pig can struggle with. Even minor things like footstep sounds heavily affect what maps Spirit likes with her best maps debatabally being swamp with how easy it's to hear survivors.
That isn't to say killer sided maps don't exist but more so that they're more factors that go into a killer sided map (many of which depend on the killer) and as a killer they feel less strong because a lot of the map is still designed to help survivors (even if they do a worse job at this). I will say some of these killer sided maps need looking at (Dead Dawg an Midwhich personally) but even these maps could be considered balanced for some killers (but not most) which is why they stick out less than survivor sided maps which are bad for all killers generally.
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there is no killer sided map other than midwich. dds can have disgusting 3 gens but that's just a gen spawn issue not the map's. lery is tough because it's almost worse than garden for some killers, the best map for stealth killers and somewhat good for m1s.
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There are no killer sided maps, there are a few maps that are balanced and the rest are survivor sided, many overwhelmingly
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It really depends on what killers you play.
Additionally, I don't think The Game is survivor-sided map.
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How the hell is Lerrys Killer Sided ? its 1 of the most awful Maps for Killer
There arent any Killer Sided Maps in the Game even Midwitch isnt Killer Sided except u are playing against a Aura reading Nurse
Dead Dawg is really balanced for both sides
There are some balanced Maps but way to many Survivor sided Maps to fix that they need to make All other Survivor Sided Maps balanced so its balanced for both Sides also Aura reading Nurse needs to be killed so Nurse Players cant abuse the Midwitch and The Game offering for easy 4k
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Ley's and midwich are killer sided what lol...
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I feel like its really just midwich thats broken level for killers. Dead dawg is absolutely winnable against most killers, if hypermobile killers couldnt take advantage of the size then it'd be more balanced
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It's pretty much an entirely rng based map, with how map generation works on Léry's almost every pallet/window can be ridiculously strong, or ridiculously weak for survivors. Imo it needs a complete rework, hopefully making the map's layout more consistent.
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Lery’s is extremely good for stealth killers.
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while there are maps that are surv sided by default and some killers don't care about that due to, e.g., high mobility - the opposite can't be said for killers. there are very few maps that are, by default, killer sided. tbh, I think only dead dawg is always killer sided (assuming that both survs and killer know how to main building and houses).
Indoor maps are often favourable to killer die to survs having a harder time locating gens and paths aren't as straightforward, e.g. to unhook. there's a lot if time lost - which by default benefits killers. and while stealth killers and killers with terror radius builds thrive on the multistorey maps - a Billy, oni, Huntress etc. gonna struggle as soon as survs don't run down the straight hallway.
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Well the vast majority of maps are survivor sided and the couple that are killer sided are only killer sided comparatively, they’re more “balanced”. In other words if all the games maps were balanced like the “killer sided” ones, the game would be significantly better balanced over all. That’s why people mainly just talk about the survivor sided ones, because they are an issue, the killer ones generally are not.
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I think it’s because there are no maps that are as killer-favoured to the same degree as the really egregious survivor-favoured maps.
Interestingly, when people talk about maps, it’s always in favour of the survivor.
GoJ’s main building is considered “strong”, but GoJ cannot possibly be favouring towards the killer. There’s no “strong” map element that is favourable to the killer.
Not that it’s important, but I just find it fascinating.
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As others have said, killers are different.
One other issue though is that most of the 'survivor' sided maps (the big ones) are just really hard for new players as well on both sides. The first time I played Saloon it was like 'great, I know where everything is' within a really short period of time. So addressing the bigger maps also makes those maps easier for newer players.
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It is just simply no fun though for an innocent m1 killer to go to mother's dwelling which has no business being as big as it is.
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This is actually a good point. I remember how lost I was on big maps when I started the game. Felix was my main for Visionary, even if my friends made fun of me for that lol.
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First of all, Lery's is relatively balanced.
Secondly, killer sided maps are boring imo.
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What would make them better is just being able to co-ordinated with randoms on solo survivor. As we cannot those maps are a lot stronger against un-coordinated teams.
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Most maps that are seen as killer sided HAVE been reworked. Lerys received a full on overhaul that's probably the biggest change a map has ever seen. The Game was loaded down with pallets beyond belief with most of them being god pallets. It's only real challenge is from survivors not being able to tell where the pallets are and which have been used, but windows of opportunities is becoming pretty meta. They straight up DELETED Hawkins, lol.
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Almost forgot... Usually the indoor maps are considered not because killers do better but rather survivors do worse on gens. They can be hard to find on indoor maps like Lerys or Midwich. Which maps are good for the killer rather than bad for survivor depends on the killer. I hate Lerys when I'm playing Huntress, but LOVE it when I'm Myers.
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