Is it time to nerf Windows of Opportunity?
Every match there are 4 survivors using WoO. If you check nightlight, you will see that the using rate of this perk is MORE than an exhaust perk!
You take away their looping crutch perk and watch how they all crumble down.
Comments
-
just let people learn the maps
40 -
It's a tough call, it is frustrating to eat pallet after pallet as killer, but the issue isn't really with the perk itself... it's more of a map rng issue.
WoO is only really a problem when a whole load of pallets are spawned in large numbers and in close proximity to each other, so survivors can just easily chain pallets and loops together....
However on the flip side, if you get very sparse pallet spawns and/or poorly connecting loops, then the perk doesn't really help you much at all beyond knowing you've got very few options around you.
It's a tall order for map RNG to be made complete fair in all scenarios, especially when you have lots of killer powers, perks, add ons, tiles, gen spawns, etc, etc, to factor for... so nerfing WoO would be the easy choice... but not the right one.
18 -
All Windows allows people to do is autopilot. If there weren't pallets and windows in excess (pallets moreso), there wouldn't be anything to autopilot towards. They have been shifting the map design away from windows (re-usable, needs higher skill) to pallets (consumable, needs beginner level skill). This makes Killer's skill be how fast they can force Survivors to burn pallets, and leave them with nothing. The Survivor denies themselves a 4th perk to tell them what exists, which aware Survivors will know without the perk.
Another thing is popularity nerfs are horrible for the game. Look at Hex:Ruin, 100% destroys itself on 1 Surv death. Don't ask for popularity nerfs if you don't want Pop and PR knocked down to 20%, Lethal Pursuer to last 5s with 1s extension, and Sloppy Butcher to only apply Hemorrhage (no mangled) alongside Windows getting nerfed.
41 -
I don't think Windows does as much as people think. A while back I experimented with blindness builds to see if it would make a difference and it very rarely did. All windows does is show survivors where the tiles are it doesn't help them run the tiles.
In this way Windows is only actually useful if you're already a good looper
18 -
No. Pick rate is not an excuse to nerf something despite common beliefs and trends
41 -
Blindness is the most underrated status effect in the game
4 -
Another proof most killers don't play vs SWF most of the time.
WoO is only good if you're solo and wish to avoid dead-zones. If you know the map at all it's not that great, I rather not waste any slots on it.
26 -
You're right, it's not an excuse to nerf something. It is, however, perfectly in line with something Behaviour would do, has done, and likely will do again despite all logic. They're big fans of nerfing things based on spreadsheets.
19 -
The perk allows Survivors to mindlessly achieve what would take someone months, if not years, to master.
While it might not always provide significant value, it sets a precedent that Survivors can perform at a relatively high level with minimum exertion. This creates a multitude of issues, such as ignorance towards the game's mastery curve and players lobbying for unreasonable nerfs/buffs.
Additionally, it artificially raises the skill floor for Survivors, which leads to the feeling of poor matchmaking that we see now.
If I were to nerf the perk, I'd either:
a) Deactivate it after 3 minutes, so that Survivors need to survey the map and plan their routes ahead of time
OR
b) Activate it only after a Survivor has been sacrificed, so that Survivors are not so strong in the early game
If I had to make a case for keeping WoO as is, it'd be that DBD is not quite like riding a bike. Returning to the game after months away can be challenging, but WoO can compensate for the brain fog.
Also, it's an excellent perk for streamers, as they can take more frequent and longer glances at chat without being a detriment to their teammates. In general, anything that makes the game more autopilot will have this effect, so it begs the question... "do we want our games to stop challenging us?" If yes, keep WoO as is. If no, it needs to go.
8 -
Windows of Opportunity is more of a perk for casual players or those with trouble remembering things, in my opinion. I feel like the best loopers already have a good understanding of pallet and window layout the moment they spawn into the game. They've played so much that they've memorized different maps, what tiles have what characteristics, etc.
For someone who doesn't play the game religiously or just someone who doesn't have the best memory, Windows of Opportunity is an easy fix. It's not going to help you actually loop the killer. It's just bumping your map knowledge up to equal someone who already has all of this figured out. It takes up a perk slot for something that you'll eventually come to learn given time, most likely. Though there are maps where there are scarcely any structures where pallets are conventionally located, so Windows of Opportunity can be a godsend if you're not sure which two rocks a pallet may decide to be between.
4 -
You will still lose most of your games, even if they nerf WoO.
34 -
I like WoO - Lets me win games on the first chase >:3
1 -
I kinda like that none of my perks are in the top pick rates, lol.
2 -
I think the diversification of top pick perks is a good thing. Plus its not like Killer doesn't have an equivalent (Zanshin Tactics).
0 -
Just because a perk is used a lot doesn't mean it should be nerfed.
WOO is fine how it is. It's a beginner perk to help survivors learn maps. Plus survivors can loop good either way once they learn the maps. And if you don't learn how to counter/mindgame loops, then you're gonna be looped around the whole map. There are also plenty of perks that can counter looping/WOO.
3 -
If pickrate is a valid reason to nerf then do you think Wesker should be nerfed by that logic?
8 -
WoO isn't worth a nerf. The perk just gives information and killers have their very own Zanshin Tactics, should they wish to know where vaults and pallets are too.
It gives a little knowledge as where to go, but doesn't offer speed boosts or anything else, other than where something is. If the killer is good enough, WoO makes little to no difference.
There is no reason to nerf this.
0 -
The problem with WoO is that you basically have a manual that tells you where to go and what to do in chase. That wouldn't be too much of an issue, if there was a way to outplay that or reliably create dead zones but with the game's current pacing that isn't really the case. It could use a nerf but I'd rather BHVR fix the actual issue. Maps.
4 -
ths perk isnt for lerning its for not need to use your brain.
8 -
They could brink back its cooldown, but would that really fix the problem? I doubt it.
0 -
you mean the perk that shows you how windows and pallets spawn in a map doesn't teach you how the map works so you eventually stop wasting the perk slot with it?
weird take but ok
5 -
It is the most played survivor perk right now, and it can be tedious when a chased survivor runs you through every single pallet on the wall (you certainly feel when they habe that perk equipped), BUT does this really affect the quality of your matches and chases, like DH, for example, used to do?
With DH I always died a little bit inside, when I catched up to or cornered a survivor and or they missplayed and then, haha surprise, they pressed E and erased their mistake. WOO is just a nuisance, and you can always break chase.
I find MFT much more irritating in quite the same way as old DH, though. Without any clever play, survivors can just reach pallets that they shouldn't, drop them and thus extend a chase beyond its allotted time. And in one loop on the Game, it was physically impossible to catch the survivor and they could just greed he pallet in an unparalleled way. The grind to bloodlust and then an inevitable smack to the face was EXCRUCIATING! Pure pain... THIS is the stuff that we should complain about, not harmless, old WOO.
4 -
Pls stop
7 -
I find it weird that so many of games, SWF or not, have 3+ instances of this 'learning' perk.
16 -
No I would say like min 90% of the WoO usesers dont try to lern anything, they can just see everything and only need to run to the loops. It takes the skill componant out of playing survivor. If you nerf WoO all users of this perk wouldnt last 15 seconds in chase.
7 -
true. its just because the perk isnt about 'learning' anymore. This Perk means EZ chases
4 -
I use it - I have 3500h
@_@
3 -
Wesker has a pickrate of 10% WoO has 33% and Wesker is played so often, because he is very fun to play and play against, also there are very many fans from Resedent Evil that play dbd only, because of Wesker.
Also Wesker takes skill to play and WoO takes the skill away.
6 -
I guess you need to learn the maps more ;D
3 -
I think this would be a very bad idea and BHVR are unlikely to do that.
The reason being is it makes the game far more accessible to casual survivor players and they make up the vast majority of their customers. What Windows cannot do is help casual survivors master mind games and other than on completely safe pallets, this is your way to get the upper hand.
1 -
I run Self-Care/Overcome/Windows/Botany as my main build.
I am nothing but casual trash/bad!
1 -
If any nerf was required, i'd nerf the range of it to 16m of you.
1 -
If you're going to start nerfing perks basely solely based on pick rates than the same goes for killer mains.
I cannot wait to see all the man tears from the entitled killer base on the forums when all their favorite OP perks get flushed down the toilet.
😂
8 -
I think many people don't realize how useful it is to have a perk that always lets you know where available pallets are, especially in solo q. Just not running to an area where my teammates already threw pallets is worth the slot at times.
1 -
Any Means Necessary and Smash Hit do the same thing.
0 -
Like they did in the past, where the whole killer meta got destroyed and only one survivor perk got nerft. While the survivor mains cryed mutch more about that. Also Killer Perks need to be stronger than survivor perks, because one Killer perk would need to counter four survivor perks.
2 -
Smash Hit is considered one of the worst exhaustion perks in the game and doesn't show auras of pallets.
Any Means shows the auras of dropped pallets, but is a very niche perk itself.
Windows also shows vaults.
So no you can't just run Any Means and Smash Hit and get the same thing as Windows. Windows is a single perk that always tells you what you can use nearby.
4 -
That’s fair.
1 -
OP, if we were playing Split the Room, it would appear you've won the game.
1 -
The community: The devs balance things by use rate rather than actual power. They clearly are dumb and don't play their own game. Also Nightlight isn't a reliable website to get use rates.
Also the community: So when is that Windows nerf happening. Look at the use rate in Nightlight. (Very angry statement like "You take away their looping crutch perk and watch how they all crumble down", taking the usage of the perk like a personal attack against their person)
Guys, you cannot change the narrative to fit your need of the moment. Are the devs terrible at their job because they only look at usage rate or do you want them to balance by usage rate? Is Nightlight a good indicator of perk usage or the user-based input makes it unreliable? We have to agree on this once and for all and stop moving the goalpost here.
Plus, remember that even removing WoO won't necesarily make you happy or make you win more. Even if it truly was a "crutch perk" and survivors "crumble" after the nerf or removal of the perk:
1) The devs will have to buff survivor somehow to keep the already low escape rate at around the same percentage.
2) Something else will take its place and you may like it less than WoO.
You have to understand that and accept that if you want a change. Do you think WoO, a perk that only gives vision, makes you feel as bad as old DH? Would you let survivors have more gen speed or heal speed if WoO were to be nerfed/removed?
Keep this in mind when you ask for balace changes. The devs can't just let you always win. The nerf of a top pick always gets followed by another top pick or a buff to the nerfed role.
12 -
Buddy, the community isn't the problem. We're not a hive mind.
The person who claims that Nightlight is unreliable data is not the same person trying to use Nightlight as basis for an argument.
7 -
The main value of WoO isn't to show you where pallets and windows are, because learning spawn logic is pretty simple, it's to show you where pallets aren't anymore because meg has dropped all of them. In a swf, people can tell each other which pallets are gone, but in soloq there is no such thing, meaning you have no clue if that jungle gym, which always spawns a pallet, still has said pallet or not.
TLDR: WoO is just another soloq band aid like kindred and bond
2 -
The perk is fine. It's a crutch perk that makes the killer's blindness perks/addons much more useful.
Any blindness effect completely disables WoO, making survivors expose their lack of skill or map knowledge.
Map design and huge number of safe/god pallets are the problems.
0 -
Killa mains tired of making mft threads?
11 -
WoO is fine, it helps bridge the solo/swf gap in a healthy manner, hence its popularity. Its in line with perks like kindred/empathy/bond/etc.
5 -
Yes it should be nerfed. It encourages boring hold W and predrop chases for both new and veteran survivors.
2 -
I don’t think it needs a nerf because it helps know the map very well and it helps new players to know how to loop and show them locations if windows and pallets. I don’t think it should get nerfed it’s not broken or op at all windows is not the problem that you’re having. Your probably having a bad map issue that needs fixing
0 -
The only problem with taking that perk away is it is CRUCIAL for beginners... I've recommended this perk to new people more times than I can remember..
2 -
I mean that's how it works isn't it. Something makes its way into the meta and they nerf it.
0 -
I have never been a fan of this perk, but for all wrong reasons, it's such an eye sore and confusing to the eyes seeing yellow pallets, vaults etc as well as seeing team mates with bond and then survs been downed etc, It's too much yellow for me to deal with and can distract me from the game. But Mr Mushwin loves it so no nerf! lol
1
