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Is it time to nerf Windows of Opportunity?
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experienced players take note by themselves about where they can run to if the killer comes.
the perk already gave them their info.
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WoO might help a survivor get from loop to loop but still doesn't mean they won't fall for a mindgame. I feel like a lot of killer mains hold onto a crutch of "I'm losing because of <this>" instead of looking at how they themselves are playing.
WoO has never been a bane of any of my killer matches nor do I see it often (feels more like a lower end of the MMR skill, hence why less experienced survivors chose it), seeing a godly looper running WoO is about as rare as finding the Dodo bird.
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If my perk gets nerfed that's the day I find a new game to replace this one.
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I never use WoO because I think it's a waste of a perk slot. Therefore I vote it become basekit
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It's really not. That might be why you run it, but I sincerely doubt a large number of killer players see it as enough of a problem they need to bring a perk to counter it.
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That's what I was going to say. If anything, people run it to counter sprint burst
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I was under the same impression. That people run Fearmonger to counter Sprint Burst, rather than for the blindness effect. Tbh, I've had games where the killer was running Third Seal and it just got left until all the gens were done.
I always run WoO, and while blindness is a very minor invonvenience, it's not like it makes a huge difference to me either. It just lets me keep track of dead zones, rather than guiding me to pallets and loops.
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Calling it a “crutch” perk is utterly ridiculous. Working on that logic, you could argue that pretty much all meta perks are “crutch” perks. I use it because I play solo-queue and often get matched with overly pallet-friendly survivors who drop every pallet in their path, therefore it’s nice to know what’s still available to me during chase.
Aura reading perks are amongst the most powerful in the game, whether you’re playing survivor or killer. Watch how many killers “crumble” without powerful aura perks like NWTH, BBQ, etc.
Also, I concur with what’s already been said: it’s a wonderful perk for baby survivors to develop their chase skills and not get downed in 10 seconds.
I could maybe get on board with its range being reduced, or maybe some sort of cool-down introduced, but this perk is fine imo.
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This is also something I feel a lot of killer complainers overlook when they argue for certain survivor perks to be nerfed. It's like they expect the slot that WoO took to stay empty once it gets nerfed, instead of being replaced with more generally useful perks.
'There will always be a Draco.'
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Exactly. And the same logic applies the other way too. If a killer is running an all chase build, say, that's every perk they're not using to kick/regress gens.
I do my fair share of silly complaining in irritating moments, but it seems like a lot of players just don't really think when they're making these arguments haha
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Which they can do anyway, by 99ing their SB. The pallets don't magically cease to exist when somebody is afflicted with blindness. WoO isn't the autopilot perk people think it is when pallets spawn close enough together that you don't really need to think about where to go next.
The real strength of WoO is knowing which pallets are gone.
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yeah. but mindbreaker makes it easier.
does anyone actually run it?
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10k hours and survivors still use this broken and busted perk. That says enough.
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This is what they should make it :
Start the trial with 3 tokens.
Once in chase with the killer the perk activates for 30 seconds.
Consumes a token.
After that is on cooldown for 60 seconds.
Once all 3 tokens are consumed , the perk deactivates for the remainder of the trial.
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My favorite thing about this community is is that every single time they complain about a perk and show a screenshot, it's at least a 3k or even a 4k, like this one.
You have every game you've ever played and you choose the screen shot where you trounced them. (And someone is running alert and technician here, c'mon).
If this is your evidence that Windows of opportunity is overpowered, you've completely missed the mark in making any point except the exact opposite.
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No. That would effectively kill the perk and nobody would use it. If your basis for dumpstering a perk is that you don't like it, the problem is you.
Yes, actually. I see it fairly frequently.
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I can’t tell if half the comments in this thread are serious or just trolling. Windows isn’t OP any more than basekit gen auras are for killers. Of all the perks I’ve seen people complain about making matches difficult for them, this one is probably the most ridiculous.
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No, it's time to nerf maps and pallet amounts and has been for a while.
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if y'all manage to get an info perk nerfed because you can't stand that survivors have anything useful it'll probably be my last straw lmao
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yes they should. they need to revert the window buff, nerf windows of opportunity, nerf mft, and make it so haste perks in general do not stack
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"Obviously too good" my guy it only highlights stuff. Info is useless if you don't know what to do with it, and only newbies and solo q (who use it to know where their teammates dropped stuff) would suffer from a nerf. It's not going to make you catch anyone competent any faster, just get good :*
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You'll be crying so much harder if WoO gets replaced in all those builds with perks that provide de facto benefits.
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1: Having a high pickrate doesnt mean it's bad. Theres so many terrible survivor perks so of course, windows is going to have a high pick rate because its one of the few survivor perks where you can get value without having to throw your games to pull it off.
2: Ya'll need to stop asking to nerf something when there so so much counterplay in the game to it. Equipped blindness perks like Third Seal or Add-Ons You said WoO appears more often so you will get value majority of your games. Just because something exists you don't like doesn't mean it needs a nerf. Ast least some things such as Windows.
3: If it does get nerfed and survivors actually can loop while also having that final perk slot dedicated to another perk except windows, was it really windows that caused you to lose or is it a genuine skill issue?
4: "Survivors can go on autopilot" Survs shouldn't be on auto pilot if youre not even trying to mindgame. I understand some loops are strong and some maps have alot of pallets, but thats like 1/5 games where you see that. Survs only play on Autopilot if youre not even actively trying to control the chase yourself. Zone out survivors, force pallets to create deadzones, moonwalk, all mindgames that can help change the tide of a chase. Stop playing on Autopilot yourselves.
4: "Survivors can avoid deadzones" So you rely on survivors mistakes in order to win? You literally want a perk nerf because if they dont have it theres a chance of them going into a deadzone thus you benefiting from their mistake? You as the killer should actively be trying to get the survivor, not wait till they make a mistake. Thats a genuine skill issue too.
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My only complaint about WoO is that it highlights breakable walls, so many times I've run to a glowing yellow box only to discover at the last moment it's a breakable wall is embarrassingly infuriating. XD I also wish they'd town down how "bright" the aura is on certain maps because it makes it very hard to see, but that's just a pet peeve of mine.
The only other thing I will say is that WoO, much like Lightborn, Kindred/Bond and Deja Vu, it does teach bad habits after a while even if it is a mostly harmless perk. And by bad habits, I mean, it is easy for said perks to become a crutch and you don't learn how to properly play the game/it becomes impossible to play the game without the perks.
Other than that, I don't really have a problem with WoO, people can play with whatever perks they want, even if it is annoying to come across them frequently.
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It needs either a distance reduction or a cooldown, it is free wallhacks for every safety net across half of nearly ever map.
I don't think people understand just how crazy this perk is, it's the most used for a reason.
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You are imidiately contradicting yourself, thats funny.
EVERY match with FOUR survivors using WoO would be 100% pick rate. Yet on your NightLight Screenshot, its at "only" 33%. Sure it's picked way too often for my taste, but it's still far from your claim. So please, stay by the facts instead of hyperboling.
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Or, hear me out, you could learn to counter the perk instead of clamoring for everything you dislike to be nerfed.
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What do you expect when all other survivor perks have been nerfed… Nerf windows and another perk will start to bother you guys even though it wasn’t an issue before…
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People have been talking about Windows for quite some time - Seems most are just catching up.
It NEVER leaves my main build. I play primarily Solo - Windows legit carries me.
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About always using it and being carried?
It is true T_T
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the perk is called ''windows of opportunity'' not ''pallets of opportunity'' so they should make only window auras avaible on this perk, just saying... lmao
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If you haven't watched the Hens vs Otz 1v1 video, I recommend you do so. Hens didn't run WoO, but it still took Otz a minimum of 1:52 to get his first hit on Hens, and that was purely due to Hens making a mistake. Map was Garden of Pain.
You don't need WoO to know where pallets are on maps like Garden, Gideon, Ormond, Coldwind, Autohaven. On Gas Heaven, I know that there's a pallet inside the shop section of main, and another pallet in the garage section. I know there is a pallet either adjacent to the fuel bowsers, or over near the window. I know there's a pallet at killer shack.
On Ormond, I know there are three pallets inside main. A pallet by the snow tractor. A pallet on the balcony. A pallet between the rocks on the way to shack from the snow tractor. I don't know every pallet location, but I know enough to make it hell for the killer even without WoO.
The strength of Windows lies in the fact that you know which pallets have been used so you can avoid deadzones. I just don't get how y'all think Windows is a problem when pallet spawns are static enough that you never really need to question if it's there or not.
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It also shows you where the window spawns are without having to physically see them, SWF or not.
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On killer I use Zanshin and on survivor I use WoO.
I don't see an issue. I'm trash and don't remember pallet spawns 🤣
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Nothing wrong with using any of the tools in the game >:3
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Not that window spawns are particularly unpredictable either. People act like WoO is guiding people to pallets and vaults when anyone with sufficient map knowledge can do the same.
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Is there way to know a window is open without seeing it? I'd add it to my arsenal if you share.
It also guides me to pallets and vaults without thinking about the map at all.
If I'm the first person chased, the killer usually has to drop chase or loses a crazy amount of time and, often, the game.
If I'm not the first person chased, I get enough knowledge about what is used/remains in order to chain enough stuff together to burn a decent chunk of time.
People really like to downplay WoO when it provides PERFECT information. There's no guesswork, no wondering if there will be a pallet/open window - The information is 100% accurate and in your face at all times.
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Can you guess who's behind Kate?
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I dunno - Is it Meg waiting for the long fabled 'Sprint Burst' meta?
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In my 1400 hours of playing, I've seen very few windows that change due to RNG. Ormond comes to mind with the vault into main (where the basement stairs would be) is blocked if basement spawned in shack. Not hugely impactful unless you're running balanced landing.
Excluding Windows that will either be open or closed, window locations are static and determined only by the type of tile that spawned. Jungle gyms will always have a window and a pallet, for instance while pallet gyms (Long C-shaped wall with a short I-shaped wall) will only contain a pallet.
As for pallets, they have fixed locations and will either spawn in one spot or in a different spot a very short distance away. Ormond's Balcony Pallet will either spawn on the outdoor stairs side, or it'll spawn on the indoor stairs side. Similarly, there'll either be a pallet between the couches next to basement in main, or it'll be near the fireplace. It'll never not spawn.
With enough knowledge of maps and tile spawns, you basically have WoO built-in. As I've said, the strength of the perk is not in knowing what spawned where. It's in knowing what resources you still have available. You can always change your loadout to counter it if it's giving you that much grief. It's an aura reading perk, and like all aura reading perks, it's affected by blindness.
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"Excluding Windows that will either be open or closed, window locations are static and determined only by the type of tile that spawned."
Windows does not give me grief - I use it in my main build.
I'll just bow out as the conversation is circular.
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The conversation is circular because your smoking gun is a window that may or may not be closed, but hey, it's not like there's a billion pallets in the map or those infamous L-T Walls, or all those guaranteed long loops that are just pain for killers. General map knowledge gives you 99% of the information Windows gives you with the only exception being the few Windows that may or may not be open.
Come back with an actual smoking gun, instead of a water pistol. WoO is not responsible for bad map design.
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Ah, the WoO gaslighting with the fallback on map design.
I don't recall mentioning map design at all in my arguments - just WoO's current effect on the game in its current form.
I'll just go back to my WoO and continue to succeed using the PERFECT information it provides instead of ignoring the reality of the perk, its popularity, and its usage in high end teams (solo or not) - It's clear there is, per usual, no real discussion to be had.
Everything's an insult, and everything's a put down.
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And I will once again point out how you can achieve the same results with map knowledge. Look no further than Hens vs Otz 1v1.
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Are you talking about this video....where he uses WoO....and also says stuff like "Oh, this isn't a good pallet" / "We don't have the good window" while playing?
Post edited by Raccoon on3 -
Lmao can't believe we're at that point where Windows of opportunity is 'Broken'.
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Yes that video, where Otz was running Zanshin and Hens was not running WoO.
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Hens is clearly running WoO and pre-emptively calling out stuff in his commentary like "We don't have the good window."
Can you explain why you don't think WoO is being run on the survivor side?
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Some stats from BHVR would be nice about the pickrate in low / mid / and high mmr.
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