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Do you really think Adrenaline is problematic perk?
Lately, i am seeing a lot hate to this perk.
Adrenaline was here and there but it was not meta. Ofcourse this changed after CoH and medkit nerfs, Adrenaline is now very popular perk.
Do you think this perk is fine or devs needs to nerf it? And if you believe Adrenaline deserves nerf, how you would nerf it?
Comments
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Adrenaline has never been problematic. People didn't complain about it until the perks they were complaining about got nerfed and adrenaline became so popular. Some people (cough including BHVR cough) will always claim if something is popular it's OP and needs to be nerfed, which is silly.
12 -
Nah. It's fine.
15 -
I saw someone was complaining about WoO ... Anything is useful will be complained i think.
10 -
A perk that essentially lets you ignore the need to reset for the last 1-2 generators is kind of busted imo.
I don't know how I'd nerf it but it's an extremely strong perk that gets even stronger when stacked. It's probably the single strongest Survivor perk in the game at the moment.
6 -
Absolutely not. in fact, one of the most balanced perks in the game. The devs don't get perk design right all the time, but when it comes to Adrenaline, they did alright.
14 -
I think the fact it grants an instant heal, plus a sprint burst, plus the fact that you can see the exact moment it's gonna proc regardless of what you're doing now, is a bit much.
The definition of a "win harder" perk, that just completely trumps any possibility of a comeback, especially when there's multiple.
5 -
No. That is probably made for this, maybe sprint burst...
They also are playing the entire match with 3 perks. Or are in fact healed when the gens get done, so it's just worse sprint burst.
It is kinda funny when they get deep wounds, so the heal only deals with that part.
7 -
The perk is a dead slot the entire game, has a one time use and requires you to do all gens. It would be a terrible perk if the effect wasn't 'busted'.
12 -
The perk's problem is that it negates killer pressure by allowing the survivor to bypass the 16s heal time, healing takes 2 people , so thats 2 people ideally not doing gens per heal. However with Adren you can just slam the last gen and instantly heal yourself. ( while also getting a SB effect when it happens) its especially bad when combo'd with resilience that allows you to pump that gen faster and in return, get the free heal faster.
Incase of a killer getting a snowball play and downing 2-3 people in quick sucession and they are all using adren, it allows the last remaining survivor to PICK EVERYONE UP ACROSS THE MAP, because he stuck the last gen instead of coming for the rescue.
Not to mention the fact that adrenaline saves the activation incase you're on the hook before the last gen pops, hence when you get rescued you come off the hook full health + endurance + sprintburst.
Hopefully you can understand that having a win stolen from your grasp because "perk goes brrrr" is not a fun experience.
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I don't think it needs a nerf. It's a one time use perk that requires you to get to endgame for value. I've never actually used it, because honestly I don't get to endgame enough so it'd be a wasted perk slot. It's always been a popular perk imo, but the former Dead Hard users all branched off in different directions and I think that's why it's seemingly had a bump in usage.
10 -
People only really started complaining about adrenaline much more after the healing nerfs which heavily disincentivized survivors from healing, I view it as just a consequence of a changing meta with adrenaline being more prevalent in people's minds since survivors wouldn't be running the same exact builds that were popular a few patches ago.
6 -
It's not a brilliant experience to have Adrenaline pop 0.5 seconds before I hit someone, but occasionally being annoying as hell doesn't make it broken or problematic. It has the steepest activation cost in the game so it needs an effect worthy of it. And, if Adrenaline increases further in popularity and it becomes tedious and unbearable, Terminus exists to kick it in the face.
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I was absolutely fine with this perk until recently. But the number of predrop sfw who sit on generators with Resilience, MFT and 4 Adrenalines to finish the game in 4-5 minutes is probably the most boring gameplay that I have met in all years in this game.
Also it's second most popular perk in the game right now and people still wondering why tunneling so popular lol.
4 -
Its fine. 3 perks the entire game, 1 time use, and terminus is already there to counter it. Its only a problem when 4 people use if but that can a problem with any other perk
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I was expecting this happen tho when devs decided nerf healing to ground. Especially when you think about Sloppy Butcher's popularity.
Healing takes so long and sitting on gens feels better. Even without Adrenaline, i don't think people would heal so much. Because BHVR overnerfed it.
Especially these healing nerfs affected solo survivors so much, altruism was already hard for them. Finishing gens as fast as possible and get value from Adrenaline is better play at current meta.
10 -
If gens were harder to complete, it would be fine. But right now, it's practically guaranteed on an efficient team.
4 -
Problematic? No.
Is it one of the top 4 feel bad perks? Yeah.
It feels heartbreaking and cruel to be chasing a survivor and have the last gen pop adrenaline right in your face mid chase.
But it's not problematic just because of how it feels to have it popped in your grill. In fact it's balanced because while it is OP it has a massive drawback in that you have to reach the endgame to even get it. If you don't reach the endgame it's a wasted slot. If you aren't injured or being chased or on hook at endgame it's still a wasted slot.
So even as a player who thinks killers have it pretty rough right now. I don't have a problem with adrenaline.
It's like Devour Hope. OP sure, but they both have massive risk of doing nothing. Makes em balanced
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WoO is actually too strong in it's current for though. It plays part of the game for you. Pathing is crucial as a survivor and WoO literally does your pathing for you now.
It needs to go back to having a cool down honestly. Removing the cool down made it too good. It was good before the buff. People just slept on it. After the buff people got WoO pilled.
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Adrenaline? No. 3 minutes until all gens are done, Adrenaline, MFT, Hope, Resilience? Yes.
2 -
It's perfectly fine. - It is inconventient for a killer and can be a late/end game game changer --- but it only becomes a real punch in the gut for a killer if it's 4x stacked. That's not a problem with the perk though but with how little options there are. Before anything is done to Adrenaline it would be much healthier to first have a look at viable end game options for surv. Atm that's essentially Adrenaline and Hope. Wake Up and No One Left Behind are decent niche perks but usually don't make a difference; considering that you give up a perkslot for the majority of the match you don't get much in return. --- Since there will be new survivors there will be plenty future perks. Why not diversify the options first, see if that has an impact to diversify builds. And if it doesn't then adjust the perks.
2 -
nah perk is fine. Maps are the problem
5 -
TBH, I personally think the perk is pretty much fine... it's a 1 time use, and thus has to be strong at end game to be worth taking it. I think a lot the hate comes from the slew of endurance effects available to survivors, making this perk feel even more punishing for killers... We have No Way out, Blood Warden, NOED, ofc, however if you aren't running these things, you've basically lost already, there isn't a great deal you can do to recover the game at this point.
My only real gripe if anything is that a whole team running it gets the full value, meaning everyone is immediately in prime escape position and halfway to the gates before the killer can really move anywhere. Any attempts to change it imo should endeavour to: -
- Grant more value to the person who is currently occupying the killer.
- Limit the power given to people not occupying the killer and doing gens.
- Preferably make it a little more interesting for build variety.
1 rework I've harped on repeatedly in changing the 5s buff to exhaustion recovery so you can take your exhaustion perk of choice. This means if you are in chase, you get your perk back to use (as your exhaustion is probably gone already), and people not in chase don't get their 5s boost regardless, they need to activate their exhaustion perk, which they probably have anyway.
Alternatively if you did actually want to NERF Adrenaline for real, make it so it only affects survivors within the killer terror radius (healing, speed and all). Again, more benefit to the person currently occupying the killer. This would make it feel much more fair, and could be pretty clutch while the team is slugged... but wouldn't feel as bad as the whole team rubber banding from all wounded regardless of where they are in the map.
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So perk is fine or not?
Because your suggestions are gonna destroy this perk. Especially the last one. If it is fine, why you are trying to butcher it?
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i think its problematic, the "just win early lol" perk. endgames are so miserable to killers with even endgame perks. surv endgame perks are almost guarantes free escapes if played right. killers literally cant do anything if 4 adrelaniles in the lobby, yeah sure skill issue killer played badly but maybe he dosent played it that badly and he could kill at least 1 or 2, but no, adrealine and everyone is out. these perks should have a counterplay or something.
3 -
Maps are bad. But WoO still even on a good map will give you your exact safest path with zero knowledge
1 -
This perk has already been nerfed. Healing two health states was arguably OP but it's fine now. If it gets nerfed anymore it'll be useless. But I know that's what a lot of people want.
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I would make it so you dont heal off hook.
And that you dont wake up against Freddy, thats about it.
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Yeah, I think it is a little much. For one, its ability to wake you up against Freddy should be removed. No perk on either side should have direct interactions with specific killers imo and Adrenaline is the worst remaining offender of that. Several other perks have already lost these interactions (eg. Small Game and Slippery Meat don’t work with traps anymore, and Franklin’s/Hoarder no longer works with killer-specific items) and Adrenaline shouldn’t be an exception.
Further, I think an instant heal AND a 5 second speedboost is too punishing to the killer especially if there are multiple in play, which I think often ends up being the strongest against killers that play nice and don’t tunnel. That said, it is a one-time use perk and it should still have a rewarding effect. Imo, there are two ways this could be changed:
-Reduce the speedboost to 3 seconds. This will reduce the time needed for the killer to catch up to the survivor if Adrenaline triggers in chase.
OR
-Keep the speedboost at 5 seconds, but you only get the speedboost if you are healthy before Adrenaline triggers. If you are injured or downed, you instantly heal 1 health state as normal, but you do not get a speedboost. You still become Exhausted in both cases.
I believe either of these options will reduce its strength but keep the perk rewarding as a one-time effect.
2 -
It working specifically against Freddy is kinda bs
1 -
What alternate universe did you come from because Adrenaline has literally never been nerfed.
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Only thing I would change with the perk is how it wakes up sleeping survivors against Freddy. The devs said they wanted to remove perks that target specific powers, but kinda forgot about this one.
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NOTE: I apologise for the large amount of text, but this is a hot and complex topic, so one can't afford to half explain their thought process. Hope you bear with me!
I'm saying it's fine imo balance wise... without other busted perk combos like BU-FTP in end game amplifying killer frustration.
However the speed AND health state makes it pretty unforgiving for the Killer in the end game not running the counters... which is why it gets the hatred it does. The counter argument to this ofc is, you didn't take an end game perk, so your early/mid game should be stronger, if you made it here to end game, you didn't push your advantage while you had it... but that logic gets into debates about gen-rushing and Killer tunnelling, and the fact that kilelrs have 4 perks while survivors collectively have 16... Killers can't counter everything, so they need to prevent people getting their Adrenaline value while they can... so it depends what you want to incentivise.
My personal vote is for a rework for recovery from exhaustion instead of 5s flat haste across the board. The free health state is certainly NOT a weak perk bonus even if the exhaustion recovery doesn't help you, and you're probably running an exhaustion perk with it anyway. This means you can choose the form your Adrenaline takes. Take Sprint Burst for basically the same as it is now, but if you want Lithe, or BL, or Head On (if you're a nut case), you can. You still get your health state, and your preferred boost... and you get the benefit of being able to trigger your boost when you want rather than only when the gen pops, at the cost of it not being QUITE as strong. That's hardly destroyed, and ofc the rest of survivors who didn't get the value from the exhaustion recovery... they have their exhaustion perk anyway.... so its no foul regardless.
The second suggestion is a nerf for sure... but that suggestion is for if you want a true nerf to it that doesn't interfere with the perks primary value, which is helping the looping survivor gain health progress and gain great distance on the killer towards the exit gates, It benefits the people who are actually in danger currently, while the ones in safety are hopefully opening the gates, missing out of the value, giving an element of risk vs. reward.
1 -
It fine the way it is.
1 -
Personally I think it's fine, for all the reasons most have given here.
I would like to see the stats on it being run vs. actually activating, perhaps broken down by MMR too. That would be a better guide to me as to it's effectiveness, whether it's a perk problem or an efficient team problem, or much more likely not a major problem.
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if NOED is fine then Adrenaline is fine.
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Both of ideas would kill perk.
Not everyone are using exhaustion perks. So resetting exhaustion is really not big reward. It's weak reward for end game perk. But probably some people would still use it for resetting exhaustion and free heal.
The second idea is very terrible, nobody would use this perk anymore. If we really want to kill Adrenaline, yeah second suggestion is the way to do it.
Adrenaline is end game perk and it should be big reward. Because it's one time use perk. If our plan is make people to less use it, we need to make healing viable again. Or maybe we need to make staying injured more dangerous, so survivors won't trust end game healing and they would use more time for heal.
But nerfing perk with these ways is just bad.
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With all due respect... saying it will "kill the perk" is pretty melodramatic, do you really think anyone will look at that and say "Oh no... I have to take an exhaustion perk... man, those perks suck... why would I want to do that?". SB, Lithe, BL, Overcome are some of the most popular perks in the game, and usually slapped on any build to great effect.
That's why I mentioned about what you want to incentivise. I know you're very survivor sided, but try to see the killers perspective. With Adrenaline being prevelant, how do you prevent value from coming from it? You tunnel. You tunnel hard. The survivors not having a 4th perk in the early/mid game means you have to captilaise while you can, you cannot allow anyone who has been hooked to get to end game. This means as a survivor you need perks to help you survive to end game, and the best perks for that are, for most people, exhaustion perks.
Having to take an exhaustion perk to get full value from Adrenaline means a survivor has taken 2 perks for survival/looping. That means they only have 2 more for other effects they want, which limits their capacity to take gen speed, healing, totem cleansing perks. It's a natural means of smoothing out the usage of Adrenaline as a commitment to killer distraction, instead of a slap on any build and get strong value perk.
Killers tunnel even when you don't have Adrenaline? You yourself can take stronger perks in the early/mid game to combat it. My point is the perk is reasonably balanced, but it incentivises tunneling. My rework means a survivor is naturally pushed towards committing more to the chase role, instead of everyone just throwing in their builds and really pushing Killer to just go "Screw it, I'm tunneling".
EDIT: I don't do this kind of tunneling BTW, I engage with this Adrenaline discussion purely from my interest in game design. My goal with this suggestion is to make Adrenaline more interesting and a little more skill based. I feel a free health state combined with the recovery of an exhaustion perk at end game that you can trigger at any time when you actually need it, rather than just unga bunga speed for 5 seconds achieves that goal nicely. I certainly have no intent to kill the perk, and if you think it will, I would be interested in why exactly you think that
Post edited by UndeddJester on1 -
It's not like hope insane 4.4ms stacking, not even close. And when it does proc, often you can hit a second time right away and it does nothing, you just have to be ready for it every time. Also it procs at the same time as NOED, so it doesn't really do anything when you're lunging already and guy gets a heal in that moment, if you don't have noed then yeah it's op, but playing without noed in current meta of mft, hope, adrenaline is stupid, the same as going afk.
0 -
Aye. It gets tiring being sent to Garden for the nth time by a 4 man with Commodius boxes with 4x OTR+MFT+Adren and Reassurance/Deli/Prove thrown in the mix.
4 -
I was wrong about what was nerfed but it was nerfed. It didn't originally cause you to be exhausted because exhaustion didn't exist when it was released. So you're wrong too 😉
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Healing nerfs? To the ground, lmao? Oh, is this a thing that never happened eventually? Or you called like that nerf of most broken perk in dbd history (which is still stupidly broken in swf) + medkits rebalance? Which btw have only become stronger with altruistic use? Is it what you call "healing nerfs to the ground"?
Maybe, in addition, you want to complain about survivors healing perks, which, being many times more useful than the same killer perks, still remain barely in demand, because healing is still extremely free by itself?
I take botany and may not even know that the killer has sloppy butcher you mentioned, because it's 50% versus 20%. The most popular anti-healing perk, by the way.
So what healing was "nerfed to the ground"? Did it happen in this game?
5 -
Its not more problematic than NOED.
So no, i don´t think Adrenaline is problematic.
2 -
Adrenaline is fine to me. It’s 1 of 2 viable survivor late game perks—by which I mean perks designed specifically to activate once survivors have finished all gens. Killers have a similar class of perks although they have quite a few more than two (NOED, Bloodwarden, No Way Out, Terminus, etc).
0 -
I don't even think WoO is all that useful unless you're fairly inexperienced. People calling it OP is kinda funny, imo.
Adrenaline is strong, but there's also no guarantee you're going to get any value out of it, so there's risk in even running it. For every time it comes in clutch, there's 2-3 times where you get absolutely nothing out of it.
Also, I feel like it's always been meta, or at least since I started playing in 2019. I don't really think it's any more common then it ever was.
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Especially since you lose the first 2-3 in the first chase. Basically, it allows teams to just never heal.
It is one of those perks that, as usual. In the hands of random solo queue survivors, is totally fine. But with coordinated teams who can know exactly when a gen is about to pop, and time their 4 adrenaline's together, it is way too strong.
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I mean it also got the ability to be put on hold whenever you were being carried or hooked on that same patch. I'd say that's a net buff overall :P
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I would rather face 4 Adrenalines than 4 MFT + Hope. That is like MUCH worse.
1 -
Adrenaline's worth is dependent on the level of play its being used on. For the average survivor its not that strong , maybe even a risky perk to pick. But at higher levels of play (especially if ts a swf) where survivors are efficient end know how to loop the perk is very reliable and easily one of the best perks in the game.
If gen focused builds with Commodious were not so strong or if regression was stronger then Adrenaline would be fine. But we are currently in a meta where good survivors can get to endgame while safely neglecting healing for most of the match only to erase all pressure with adrenaline once the final gen pops. This is not something that most killers are equipped to handle.
Ever wonder why tunneling and strong killers like Wesker and Blight are more popular lately? This current meta that Adrenaline enables is partially responsible.
Also: Terminus costs 1 out of 4 perk slots to counter 1 effect of Adren. Its not effective as a counterpick.
Healing was not "overnerfed" or nerfed to the ground. It was changed from overtuned to balanced. I still use Med Kits in most of my surv matches and escape more often than not.
My suggestion is that the heal should only trigger if: You are actively being chased/ Near the killer /Being carried or on the hook when the perk triggers. If you are safely away from the killer you don't get the heal. The injured survivors doing the final gen will have to heal manually.
5 -
Adrenaline certainly doesn't deserve the hate. For a start, it weakens the survivor for a majority of the match, causing them to only have 3 active perks.
When it activates, the brief speedburst and health state gain is nice and worth the wait, but it doesn't always mean success. NOED basically cancels it outright. I've had survivors down before who suddenly gain a health state to injured right in front of me, which results in them getting knocked down again.
Not forgetting the survivor has to make it to the end in the first place to get any benefit, I feel it's a high-risk/high-reward perk, which still has counters.
1 -
Can we please stop complaining about the survivor perks? If you want to try and nerf every survivor perk, A LOT of people will stop playing. I understand some perks can be good, but if you want to talk about nerfing survivor perks, please also give examples of killer perks that could be nerfed as well. I’m seeing too many killers say “nerf this perk” “nerf that perk” constantly, but will never say that a killer perk is too good. Spine chill, PTS, dead hard, etc. every perk survivors use killers will say it’s unfair. As for adrenaline, the perk only activates once the survivors get all gens done, so it makes total sense to get a little reward especially since you're gambling with the perk to even make it to end game. Stop trying to get every survivor perk nerfed because you will eventually have a few live survivors and all bots. This game is not suppose to be easy. I’m at 1300 hours and I’m still not even that great lol
EDIT: Also, IMO spine chill is a beginner perk. I used it as a beginner because I wasn’t used to the game and was too scared lol but I haven’t run that perk in a very long time
Post edited by spagz on1
