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Easy fix for 3 gens problem
Instead of 7 generators on the map, make it so there's only 6 and survivors only need to repair 4.
Except take the time it took to repair 4 gens, is as long as it took before to repair 5.
Now with 1 less generator on the map, the spread will be much less of an issues.
What do you think?
I think its an easy fix BHVR should take into consideration.
Comments
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Killers with no map coverage would have to waste so much time looking for gens (especially on large maps) and with no regression perks it would make stopping just 4 gens being repaired very difficult especially with survivors running gen repair perks.
Appreciate your suggestion to make the game better but I don't think that would work.
That's just my opinion not a toxic comment in any shape or form so please don't treat it as such especially as other players might like your idea.
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What this one said. However... Lines like "with no regression perks" .. "Especially with survivors running gen repair perks"
Anything can be made bad or good when you take into account perks and 'if they do this or that'.
I dont feel maps should really worry about those parameters. The maps just need to be... better.
imo of course :)
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I have 1 solution:
as soon as there are only 3 gens left, survivors are able to push/pull gens
they can only push/pull in 4 directions and on flat terrain
survivors can push/pull 0.5m/s of a 0% progress generator
The more progress the generator has, the heavier and slower it gets
2 survivors can push/pull the same generator, increasing the speed to 0.7m/s
I don't know, the number may need a tweak but the fundaments are presented
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The first thing Survivors would do is find the quickest route to block the Killer into a dead end. You wouldn't even have to try too hard on some maps.
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Maybe just fixing the Maps would solve a lot
Either expanding the Maps (to allow more Gen placements) or constricting the Maps (to allow less "deadzones" and maybe less Gens)
But IDK though... pros and cons to everything
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Not a good idea, killer only main will cry even more than now for "gen rushing" in a way, and the other I don't think nothing can be done about the three gen camping
People who do that (I talk about the killer who immediatly go near the three gen spawn and camp there, taking hostage everyone) have so much habit to do that, because, it's some "easy win" that, EVEN if BHVR do something about that, changing map, kill all gen perk from survivor or whatever, these people gonna do that even more
It's like, when Dead hard was a thing, lot of people go here to cry about and saying stuff like "If nothing is done about this perks, i'm gonna camp even more" ... Camping are now even more rampant than before
So in a way... The only way to break the three gen, is that survivor need to be more sweating, more competent, playing only with a good teammate and... Your solution at your problem
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what do you mean?
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The suggestion I've made before is after 3 gens pop / 2 gens remain, the first gen in the match to pop can be 're-completed', but only at 25% speed. That means it would take 360 Survivor gen seconds to re-complete, and percent regression is still just as effective. This happens again with the 4 gens pop / 1 gen remains, and now the 2nd gen to pop can be 're-completed' at 25%, and the 1st gen to pop is buffed to 50% speed (if it wasn't double popped). This way when you get a bad H map with a 4 1 2 gen split, you can still complete 5 gens, albeit with 3 at 90s, and 2 at 360s. If the Killer decided to actually defend all gens on the map, they could get a Pain Res to revert 90s of gen progress on those 25% speed 're-complete' gens. Simple paint visual below. Also note that for the bad drawing, re-completable means it was completed prior if that wasn't obvious.
Edit: This would be good for everyone other than baby lobbies. Low Skill Survivors will need a large notification (beyond just a red bar) that these re-complete gens are not good to do, maybe a visual debuff that says in large text 'old gen, -75%/50% gen speed'.
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Generators are solid objects. If a generator can be pushed and pulled around the map, they can be pushed and pulled into places where they can block off loops and doors. For example, the generator in the toilets of the Meat Plant isn't far from the only way out of the room. With the way collision is, you could probably block half the door and trap the Killer inside while allowing Survivors to come and go.
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Easy to fix: just make it so survivors can't place the gens by entrances and exits.
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I never thought that I'd live to the moment when 3 gen become a huge problem. I thing it's only a problem with Merchant, but for her it could be personal 8 gens on map.
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And what about being able to block off parts of a corridor or structure to create god loops? Being able to move around a chunk of unbreakable scenery has too many variables and too many opportunities to break the game. Imagine trying to balance this on Lery's? Generators wouldn't necessarily need to be dragged across a doorway to break a map.
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The idea is sound. The only thing that sounds bad is specific killer perk buff to compensate. You shouldn't compensate base mechanic by perk because a, it means all killers need to use that perk now (which reduces variability) b, you didn't compensate part of killers.
In this case base-mechanic that would be an actual good compensation could be something like longer generator repair time (I don't specifically like this one as holding M1 on gens is already boring, but it's the easiest example of base-game mechanics to compensate for all killers).
Omitting this little oversight, I like the idea.
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I mean Killers can run 4 lethality and run down people before they can pop all the gens fast enough even on M1 Killers like Legion. The classic Enduring Spirit Fury wombo combo comes to mind.
Nothing about this suggestion requires slowdown perks, I was just showing how slowdown is augmented if the Killer stops camping their bunker and allows Survivors to pump the bunker gens. Even the basekit 2.5% 2.25s kick would be effectively buffed to 9s of Survivor slowdown, and 4.5s if it is the 50% gen. Basekit regression is also proportionately powerful, and would make the 25% gen regress at the same speed a single Survivor can pump it. The game progresses gens worked by Survivors at 1 charge a second, and regresses at .25 charges a second, and this would reduce the Survivor sided anti-bunker gen to .25 charges a second (or .5 charges a second if the 50% gen).
I would argue in many matches this would be a buff to Killer, because people might attempt to power through a 25% re-gen when there is a normal gen undefended and the Killer isn't even bunkering up. Overall the idea behind the change was to punish bunker gameplay by having an escape other than bleedout/giveup on hook. At the same time, it is meant to be punishing enough to not be reasonably used by people trying to win against a normal Killer (unless they wanted to 'go easy' on them). A Survivor shouldn't attempt to complete the re-gen and should complete the normal gen instead.
I did notice a flaw however in this being brought up. Great Skill Checks would need to also be proportionately reduced in strength, or removed altogether on these gens. Currently no matter what gen speed buffs and debuffs you have, Greats still do 1% or .9s (or more with Hyperfocus). Luckily because of Hyperfocus, we know they do have the code to adjust Great values as well.
The current anti-3gen 'fix' is Deja Vu, so a perk is yet again called upon to fix a core design flaw, but it also has problems. Nothing stops you from using the 6% against every gen in the match, so it can be a buff against people not even bunkering. The boring Deja Vu 'fix' I recommended was a buff to gen times based on how long the current 3 gen has been the same 3 gen. For example 3% per minute. So if a 3-gen was camped from the onset for 25 minutes, you could have a 75% gen speed buff. That also wasn't without its problems though.
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Sure. I agree. I just don't like "bandaid" as a permanent solution.
It would without a doubt be survivor buff (that makes the game healthier, but it's still survivor buff) - so killer buff is absolutely in order. But base-mechanics buff vs perk buff does not sound good. Especially if it makes said perk (in this case pain res) too strong - making it virtually basekit on every killer. The better thing would always be basekit buff to killers (and if this was actually implemented, I think good idea of compensation buff would be to double killer's basekit kick regression to 5% instead).
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I mean again, you don't have to redo the gens as Survivor unless the Killer is bunkering, so it wouldn't make PR too powerful except against the foolish, but they were going to die anyway. This is a buff to Killer in the sense that foolish Survivors will attempt the slowed gens against non-bunker Killers. The speed is so slow that Killer isn't penalized for re-genning except when bunkering.
As far as the basekit kick buff I would be fine with that if it were a pop-styled post hook buff, to encourage actually furthering the game, and not simply slugging or buffing bunkering further.
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Ok. I re-read your first post. You didn't want to buff pain res. You just stated, that 25% would mean 90s. Ok. Then it's clear. In that case I understand and agree with you, but small buff to compensate for killers would be in order. Kick buff after hook sounds actually very healthy. In this case I would maybe even accept 7.5%-10% instead of 2.5% (for that first kick only)
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