Deathslinger needs his old nerfs reverted now that Xeno is out
There is absolutely no excuse or reason you can give that slinger needs any of those current nerfs while Xeno is doing everything he did but better.
Slinger's TR got nerfed to a standard 32 meter radius because it was too low for a ranged killer without a lullaby. Xeno in crawler mode has a 24 meter radius and is effectively a ranged killer without a lullaby.
Slinger got a slight aiming delay because people felt his 1v1 was too strong with quickscope shots. Xeno has virtually no windup and no real punishment for missing multiple shots yet gets massively rewarded for hitting one by having virtually no cd on the tail attack and survivors make no distance.
Slinger is already a slow movement killer who has issues traversing the constantly large maps implemented Xeno has one of the quickest least strategical movement abilities in the game. Being able to constantly go in and out of tunnels AND get info while in them AND charge its power at an absurd rate even if it just lost it.
Other than sneaking up on people using M&A and his small TR slinger didn't actually do anything even remotely unfair and had a very high risk high reward kit that rewarded you for hitting shots and punished you for missing them with only addons to slightly alleviate that. (Which also got nerfed)
Xeno currently has mobility (and a stupid amount of it), ranged attack to hit over pallets and vaults, information (footsteps in tunnels), slowdown (since turrets are the only way to possibly counter the incredibly stupid crawler mode and you have to take time to set them up) the only thing it's missing to make it on par with Nurse and Blight is either incredibly stupid addons(Blight) or the ability to just ignore the basic counterplay mechanics put in the game for survivors (Nurse)
There is absolutely nothing slinger did pre-nerfs that Xeno can't do currently
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nah, leave slinger alone, he has gutted but then MfT killed him, let him rest in peace with his 4 mains. Xeno will be nerfed shortly so I would not even take time in making this argument as it will probably not be relevant in the next patch.
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People need to stop comparing Slinger and Xeno.
Slinger does not have turrets that can be placed around the map that alert you of the killer in a 41m radius bypassing undetectable. Nor does Slinger have to deal with turrets that can prevent you from using your special attack. Also slinger's range is 18m compared to Xenomorph's 4.8m
Also while Xenomorph is mobile, he can't just travel whenever he wants to and to whereever he wants to. He has to go to a control room and travel to other control rooms. Sometimes you get bad spawns.
I do think it's unfair that slinger had both his TR nerfed and his quickscope nerfed, but the existence of xenomorph does not mean that slinger needs to be reverted.
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Though I think they are completely different killers, I would agree with making his TR 24 meters.
But reverting the ADS time? Please. God. No.
Maybe a small reload time buff as well.
While I do think xeno is stronger than slinger. They really do have a lot of differences, and we don't need to be treating every killer the same way. Let them be different.
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I just wish there was a way that killers could travel quicker when not in chase. It’s so freaking painful travelling across some maps as a 4.4 killer like Slinger. It encourages 3 genning as well which is a hot topic people like to moan about.
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Xeno has the build in counter mechanic in form of the turrets. Slinger can always use his power.
But while we are at it: can we revert pigs terror radius? Wesker is 4.6 and has a bigger radius than 32 and sadako also moves at 4.6 and has a smaller terror radius. See? Lots of weird stuff around. Honestly: I don't care about pigs terror radius.
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The reason they're compared is because in chase Xeno IS slinger but better.
People need to stop using turrets as an excuse as if they're any good. It takes 2 turrets next to each other to even work 9/10 times because of how long it takes to actually burn the xeno.
You also brought up his fixed tunnels as if they aren't fixed right next to gens, yknow the thing he's supposed to be patrolling anyway and also the location survivors have to go to aquire counterplay and also the fact it sees footsteps while in tunnels. No way anybody can deny that Xeno isn't heavily overloaded with too much crap.
Slinger being nerfed was unjustified back then but I got it, casual survivors aren't good and that's where he stomped hard. That's fine w/e but Xeno IN CHASE is almost identical to slinger BUT better.
Reverting slingers nerfs doesn't allow him to do anything that Xeno already can't. There's no excuse or reasoning for it at this point is my main point/argument.
What would giving slinger his old (or at least a 24 meter) terror radius do that's so unfair? Xeno can already creep up with tail
Why would giving quickscope back break the game? Xeno tail attack does the same thing and still doesn't have to reload nor are they punished for missing
I can let the addon nerfs slide as they were practically the only ones anybody ever used
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Xenomorph is not a better slinger. They are not comparable killers.
Slinger has 18m range and always has his power active. Plus he has to reel in survivors for damage.
Xenomorph has 4.8m range, does not have his power always active for the trade off of being able to move quicker around the map. Once his tail attack hits, it does damage.
As for tunnels. They generally do spawn next to gens, but some maps have fixed chest spawns which can force control rooms to be much further away from the gen it's suppose to be protected. Maps like midwich can have control rooms on the other side of walls as well. Xenomorph can't just get broken out of his power then immediately travel to a control room, he has to path to a control room first. Freddy, Dredge, and Sadako all have fixed points they teleport to, but they can engage the teleport where ever they are on the map.
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Xeno is not a "ranged killer without a lullaby"
The tail range is 4.8 meters. For context, load up a game as trapper, and lunge a max distance. Congrats, you just travel 6.21 meters.
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IN CHASE (Something i've specified but keeps getting ignored): How are the two killers different? The difference is that Xeno is undeniably better. Xeno can hit you at a vault/pallet/window. Slinger can do the same but the difference is if Xeno connects on an injured survivor it's always a down. If Slinger connects on an injured survivor there are other factors that can prevent the down. Otherwise Xeno is a normal speed killer that can just walk up to you and slap you, slinger has to deal with 2-3 more loops due to slow speed to catch up (especially in mft meta)
OUTSIDE CHASE: Xeno is significantly better and there's no argument there.
Turrets need to stop being used as an excuse, if you play both sides and have played as and against xeno you know very well that turrets are ineffective on their own you need multiple for them to actually work and the time spent setting them up is more of a benefit for xeno than a hinderance given a 3 second dip in the tunnel given the power back.
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we should still buff him a little right?
please my irish killer needs some help from the dirt from his injured leg
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Xenomorph's range is 4.8m. Deathslinger's range is 18m.
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Deathslinger could use some adjustments. But it's not because Xenomorph exists.
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My argument isn't that he needs buffs because Xeno exist, my argument is that he doesn't deserve to keep his nerfs because xeno exist. He couldn't do anything that Xeno can't currently do that's my entire point. If it's ok in BHVR's eyes for current Xeno to exist then pre-nerf Slinger should be considered perfectly ok
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Deathslinger and Xenomorph are different killers. Xenomorph existing does not justify reverting Deathslinger nerfs.
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i have been saying for long time. the changes they did to slinger were not good changes.
I think they're testing community with xeno by giving you old slinger gameplay at loops. chases with xeno are really thrilling. it is been while since a killer like that was released where killer power has technical skill-cap for survivor to do well and technical skill-cap matters unlike... pinhead for example.
Don't be surprised if Xeno gets deathslinger'd in the future. All you need to do is increase tail whip cast time from 0.2->0.45, runner mode tr increased from 24->32 and linger duration of tail strike reduced from 0.4->0.1. So as they say, Enjoy it while it lasts killer mains.
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1. Xeno has turrets, each equipped with a motion tracker that warns you when she is within a 41m radius. Slinger has nothing of the sorts.
2. Slinger was instant windup (0.15 secs) with a range of 18m. Xeno has a quick windup (0.2) and a range of 4.8m.
3. Slinger always has his power. Xeno does not.
4. Her cooldown are confirmed bugged and each lasts 3 seconds. Saying she has no cooldown is wrong or the bugged out and had you moving far faster than intended (eta on the fix is next patch)
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1) Turrets are currently a good thing for Xeno. They do very little on their own but waste a lot of individual time of the survivors from doing gens in order to barely counter the tail attack
2) The average slinger isn't shooting at max range in most cases you have cover and given the latest trend of BHVR littering their map in random junk it's very hard to get line of sight anyway.
3) Slinger has to reload, Xeno doesn't. If you miss a shot as slinger you are not only slowed from that but reloading also slows you down. Giving a ton of distance to the survivors as a punishment. Xeno miss or hit the survivors barely make distance and if you somehow get popped out of your power it takes barely any time at all to pop into a tunnel and get it back.
My point still stands that old pre-nerf slinger should be in an acceptable condition if Xeno is allowed to exist the way it does. There's nothing (ONCE AGAIN I CLARIFY IN CHASE) Slinger can or could do that Xeno can't. Aside from maybe a few radical trick shots through very small opening that most players wouldn't be able to pull off.
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xeno can do everything that slinger does at loops. the only selling point that slinger has is that he can damage from 8-18 meters but the long range shots are hardest shots to hit because of travel time of the shot paired with small hitbox of harpoon. factor in the survivor's ability to wiggle on reaction and then shot might as well be flipping 3 coins that all magically land on heads at same time.
survivor are adamant that deathslinger is balanced killer so I do not see any prospect changes for him.
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How is your idea of balance to bring back stuff that was broken and got fixed instead of fixing new stuff that is broken?? Quick scoping was zoning and free hits at larger distance, xeno has 5 m.... That's just not comparable, but both are problematic in the sense that you cannot dodge it. I would also disagree with turrets being useless... People just need to learn to place them properly.
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Old slinger was never broken. He crept up on people because of a perk + low TR music. Bumping up TR audio was an easier solution instead of nerfing so people could actually hear it before he was in shooting range.
His addons got nerfed for being overused and there's absolutely no argument on that, without touching on the fact that the rest of his addons were absolutely useless in more than half the scenarios you'd be faced with. They nerfed them for 0 reason other than popularity instead of just reworking his other addons to actually do something useful.
His "quickscope" was something that took time to actually get right (you don't see Nurse being gutted despite her having one of the most unfair abilities in the game) you landed the shot you were rewarded and if you didn't you were HEAVILY punished. How is that not fair if not a little weak on slingers side.
His range was higher, yes i'll give you that but unless you live your life playing shooters nobody was hitting 18m shots in every single game especially not with how tiny the hitbox on the spear is. The range argument is irrelevant since in most cases when you chase a survivor you were hitting them in the exact same situations Xeno does (at a window or pallet)
turrets even if placed properly still take time to set up. 5 seconds spent setting up a turret is 5 seconds not on a gen. 4 survivors doing that at the start of the match means you just wasted 20 seconds of the survivors time doing nothing but existing. Repeat this for each turret spent setting up and unlike Slinger Xeno has map mobility on top of being a faster killer.
Xeno can do basically anything Slinger can but better there's absolutely no reason to play him right now over Xeno other than personal preference of fun, which isn't a bad thing mind you, but it's not fair at all
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With Monitor and abuse you had a 16 m heartbeat but could shoot from 18 m away, terror radius adjustment in volume does not help with that issue.
Quickshot has the issue of offering free zoning, bc you zoom quickly with 0 cool down or negative effect if you only do it shortly and you can basically force survivors to juke and if they don't you just get the free hit, it was just terrible, basically the same issue xeno currently has, but over shorter range here.
I don't have in mind what got changed about his addons, but I think reload were the strongest back then as well? Did they get changed too?
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The problem with old Slinger was that he could repeatedly zoom in and out at a split second without any downsides, leading the majority of Slinger players to use & abuse that method during chases and as a result, Survivors would be locked into a lose-lose situation no matter what.
The typical scenarios goes like this: Slinger would zoom for a split second during chase and the following would usually play out as a result.
- The Survivor don't zigzag and gets hit from a shot.
- The Survivor does zigzag and as a result, loses some distance on the killer, Slinger would then repeat the process of baiting his shots until either
- A. Has caused the Survivor to lose so much distance from zigzagging that Slinger gets a basic attack hit
or
- B. They force the Survivor to vault and get hit from a shot there because they've been forced into doing so as they can't do anything else to escape Slinger.
Xeno does not come even remotely close to Old Slinger at all because unlike Old Slinger, Xeno cannot bait it's shots constantly like Old Slinger did which is the main important difference between the two, hitting over vaults and pallets is not any different from any other range killer, who also can't bait their shots either as easily as Old Slinger could or force Survivors into a lose-lose situation during chase the same way Old Slinger did so easily.
Also old Slinger was not that hard to master, i know because i used to main him and i also know how annoying he was to face for Survivors as back before his nerf, his split second quickscope was a frequent topic of discussion on the forum. You could not go a day without someone making a complaint thread about it, those complaints threads continued all the way right up until his nerf.
He may not have been Nurse levels of broken, but he was without a doubt overtuned and unfun to face for alot of people.
Post edited by Smoe on3 -
you were not locked into lose/lose situation. you put yourself in a lose/lose situation by over-respecting shots that did not need to be respected.
the deathslinger harpoon has small hitbox and a travel time before it reaches you as survivor. you were suppose to be doing a single wiggle to left or right similar to how AI plays vs ranged killers. there is no reason to wiggle between 14-18 meters of the shot at all because shot is possible to react to. When slinger approaches 9-13 meters, it becomes much harder to react to side-step his shot however he is 110% m/s so your suppose to very far ahead of the slinger. In cases where you are not, you should be using obstacles as walls to avoid wiggling to lose distance. eventually when you pass a certain tile-set corner or approach a pallet, this is where you should consider wiggling and baitshots because old deathslinger will try to take shots as you approach line of sight blocker.
in certain instances where deathslinger has clear line of sight, wiggling was tactically a good idea because if pallet is say 5 meters away from you but deathslinger is 13-14 meters away from you, you could wiggle in unpredictable pattern while approaching the pallet linearly to make shot more difficult for slinger. you lose distance for wiggling but due to proximity of the pallet, the distance loss will not matter once you reach the pallet.
@SimpleTora post is talking about xeno's tail strike has similar mind game potencial at dropped pallet as old quick scope deathslinger had. that is why he is questioning current slinger with current xeno runner mode at loops. due to perception you explained in your post, the deathslinger remains have long wind-up because survivor did not play correctly to counter the hold-w elements of deathslinger between loops. with xeno, the mind games are only at pallets as xeno tail strike is only 4.8 meters. not 18 meters like the slinger. Old deathslinger had greater depth in looping for survivor.
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Slinger 1000% deserved and needed the change. I was honestly shocked that he not only released in his first state but also that he remained in it for over a year. I am begging bhvr to stop balancing extremely oppressive chase killers by inflating their chase times by making them mechanically slow.
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So because Xeno is op you think DS should be too. No thanks
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i agree with the unfairness of power. but no need to revert back the slinger.
slingers 18m range is not even useful in a lot of situations. i havent seen any slinger mains use 18m shot as a normal kill.
get bad spawns? you mean its bad because its beside generator? ow thanks for that. i dont think survivors need to finish generators to escape. sarcasm
deal with turrets? you mean with 3 turrets not affecting him, and destroyed, just to teleport and regenerate his tail attack in 15 secs. wow, thats nice to hear.
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I can tell you haven't played xenomorph if you think control rooms always spawn right next to every gen.
Midwich, Chemistry room gen spawns in library do you have to walk quite a bit and the turret warning means survivors will be long gone before you get to that gen.
The swamp map, the guaranteed chest spawns on the main building push the control room away from the main building.
If anything spawns in the closest spot to the gen, the control panel can spawn quite a bit away.
If you survivor mains took the time to actually play the killer you would realize there's a lot more going on them you think.
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You do realize the bots dodge range shots because they have 0 reaction time right? Just like they can see you through walls... So maybe don't take them as an example...
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i am saying you can side-step slinger harpoon gun on reaction if you far away enough from him. the bots can do it on any range. The human player has to manipulate distances and use line of sight to outplay old slinger. It is sophisticated counter-play. don't worry, you don't have to do anything of that. you can just play vs easy mode slinger.
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Hens once said something along the lines that old slinger was free to get hits and now you need to put some effort in, I think that is fair and I still would not call it easy slinger, he can still hit you at the vast majority of tiles if he is good enough.
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old slinger was more on survivor to outplay the killer. new slinger is more on survivor to make a series mistake in chase rather killer having any input in outcome on the match. he can still hit you at the vast majority of the tiles if you make poor plays.
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I mean how do you outplay someone that just gets the hit if he is patient enough? I don't necessarily think you need to make a mistake against current slinger, if there aren't line of sight blockers he will hit you eventually... Not all maps have high walls...
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Slinger does need them reverted. All the nerfs did was kill the killer and make another killer non viable for actual good games.
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all you said are 3 maps with bad RNG. with the vast majority of maps, the control panels spawns nearby a gen, same as with sadakos mechanic. even sadakos TV goes off when teleported.
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I gave 3 examples, but it can happen on any map since chests spawn before control panels and any chest that picks the closest spawn near a gen forces the control panel to spawn farther away. You would know this if you actually play the killer.
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Sure really dead killer, which is why he still can outplay most tiles in the game, shoot through tiny cracks and gets used in comp, unlike many other killers... If you only performed well before with him then maybe you just need to put in some effort to learn how to aim, because insta shoot slinger was free: Free zoning, free hits...
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by anticipating shots? I see line of sight as means to mitigate risk. your perception of line of sight blockers is counter the killer power entirely. "hit you eventually part" will be too slow for 5 generators of the game.
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So flicking is not a thing? How would you anticipate a shot when he is pulling his weapon up every few seconds to make you juke or shoot you if you don't? It's just loose loose... Nothing more than a guessing game...
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there is always going some forms of blatant risk taking in running forward at very particular points where finding LOS blocking is not present. at most, pulling the gun makes you wiggle little bit to left or right. sure you lose a little bit of distance... like 5% m/s for 2-3 seconds but your still mostly running forward. there is no reason to sway very hard because the gun harpoon hitbox is not very big. If you are swaying very hard, it is because you don't care to lose a lot of distance because your really close to pallets or tile-set line of sight blockers. distance loss is less meaningful when your further away from the killer because once you lose line of sight, you get temporary safe-zones vs range.
flicking shot..... I am going reword this to something a little bit less FPS like. I will call it shot leading. shot leading is when you have a projectile weapon and you shoot where opponent is moving to rather then where the player model is on the screen. the whole idea is that your opponent wants to side-step shot but your anticipating the shot so you shoot where you think the opponent will side-step such that he side-steps into the projectile instead of dodging the projectile. it is counter-tactic to wiggling.
your not wrong that it is a guessing game. there is some points of lose/lose as you say but the mini-game in itself is to attempt to avoid the so called lose/lose.
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Slinger's fine, just make Xeno more fair instead.
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He def can't outplay in most tiles now that MFT exist he's FAR worse even without MFT his "outplay" potential in most tiles pre and post nerf was no different than Huntress which is considered a fair killer.
Yes, he can shoot through tiny cracks with pinpoint accuracy that could just as easily be missed by being a pixel off. Stop using rare occurrences as an example, even Slinger 1 tricks aren't going to hit through tiny cracks (especially not with quickscope) often same goes for 18m shots, it was also something that required a LOT of practice. Skill should be rewarded not punished.
Anytime anybody brings up comp i'm almost inclined to ignore them. Comp is the less than 1% of the playerbase that spends more time playing DBD in a day than they do worrying about personal hygiene in a year who play with a specific set of rules and limitations.
Old slinger was strong in 1v1 i'll give you that but he had the massive downside of being horrible in the 1v4. He couldn't pressure gens. He couldn't pressure multiple survivors. He couldn't traverse the map quickly. All his nerfs did was make him worse at the 1v1 without letting him do anything else better.
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Does not matter that comp is tiny, I would say they bring out his full potential though, also his windup is still way faster than that of huntress which makes more viable on certain tiles.
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he still loses at full potential.
deathslinger could pressure multiple survivors if deathslinger won every single 1vs1 chase extremely fast in relationship to generator speed but that was extremely hard to do because even 2-3 shots missed or sloppy play could make him lose very quickly. that is butterfly effect of dbd. you had way greater odds as survivor to outplay his 1vs1 even little bit then he had to succeed perfect game. As a result, he was balanced.
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So do most killers, but I would still say he is better than most of them....
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