A suggested rework/buff for the Knight
After playing for some time with the Knight (i've been playing him constantly since March) , i've come to understand that although this killer can be quite fun and have a very good visual, it has some problems. In order to adress some of these problem, i have some suggestions. Please, consider this topic as an open debate about the Knight current status as a suggestion for a rework.
I will point the issue and the propose a solution:
- Bugged AI
The guards have several bugs in their AI, becoming stuck in parts of the map, going in very strange paths to chase a survivor right in front of them, refusing to pass through windows or pallets to catch a survivor, going all the way around, wasting the hunt.
Of course those bugs needs to be adressed ASAP so we can have a better experience while playing the Knight.
- Addon dependancy
Playing Knight without some addons is a bad experience. There is three addons that i would say are obligatory on him (in order of importance): Map of The Realm, Call to Arms and Dried Horsemeat.
Map of the Realm (MotR) makes the detection range of your guards bigger. Playing without MotR feels terrible: even when you predict correctly the path that a survivor will make, he/she can dodge a guard easily because of the small detection radious Carnifex and the Assassin have (Jailer can counter this a bit).
Call to Arms (CtA) is what the turns Knight viable against good survivors: The increased speed and range can make you have time to listen and think where the survivors are going; make easier to pressure survivors through the map (while they are healing or doing gens); etc. Knight with Call to Arms is just another killer in terms of strength and map pressure.
Dried Horsemeat is mostly used to make your guards last enough to you do a pincer move on a survivor, specially with the Jailer which has lower speed than the Assassin and Hunt Duration than the Carnifex. Dried Horsemeat can also be used to "snipe" someone at long range, on a generator or healing, as the extra 4s can make the difference between a hit or not
Since these addons are so essencial to the Knight to fix his weakness, mostly of the other addons are rarely used, as if you don't have a good chance to detect a survivor with a guard, you will become just a M1 killer with no power.
My suggestion for this are: Make the Map of the Realm extra detection range basekit, so we can explore more of the Knight addons; change the basekit speed of patrol mode to be the same as when using Call to Arms addons, and leave it as addon for extra range on patrols.
For the Dried Horsemeat, i would suggest something: rework completly this addon and make the extra hunt time tied to total patrol path distance, gaining 1s from 10m total path to 4s at 32m total path. This would incentive Knight players to play more strategically with their power, rewarding then to predict where survivors will go instead of just dropping a guard into a loop (i will talk about that later)
- Three Gening
Knight can be quite annoying while holding a three gen, specially when they are very close to each other. To resolve this issue i propose that you can no longer kick a gen with a guard while using patrol mode - you still can break pallets. This way, if you want to protect a gen with a guard, you would be forced to start a hunt instead of holding it by kicking.
To compensate this, i would give Knight a secondary power:
Guardia Order
When you are up to 16m of a Brekable Wall/Generator/pallet, press the secondary power button to give the guard an order to kick gen/break the pallet. Your order will be directed towards the object which is mostly centered on your screen - highlighted with green. You cannot use your power or Guardia Order while a guard is executing an order or while your power is in cooldown.
This way, Knight could save some time giving orders to guards instead of having to go in patrol mode, but could not use this to hold a generator "hostage" from afar.
- The Guards utility / The Hold W counter
Although i can understand that every guard is tied to a playstile (Carnifex brute force; Assassin fast hits; Jailer scouting + anti-stealth) i think most of the Knight players will agree that the guards that are better in hunts (Carnifex and Assassin) are the guards which most make a difference in a match. Although Jailer can be crucial to get a hunt against a stealth survivor, his speed and chase duration makes him kinda lackluster when compared to the other two.
Also, another thing that happens with all the guards is that even when the Knight finds the survivors and gets a hunt successfully, if the surv is in a safe loop or have window/pallet to jump, you will be only wasting your time, as he/she can get away from the loop and the guard before you even have the chance to zone them.
To resolve this kinda of problem, i would suggest these changes:
Whenever a guard is actively hunting a survivor, the Knight will get a 3 to 5% haste bonus (tied to total patrol path distance) until the hunt ends.
If a Carnifex is hunting a survivor, the Knight gets 10% longer lunge and 10% pallet break speed;
If the Assassin is hunting a survivor, the Knight jumps through a window 15% faster;
If the Jailer is hunting, every survivor within 4m of the Jailer have his/hers aura revelead to the Knight for 2s. Also, the Jailer would chase with a 4.2m/s speed for 18s seconds, having the same detection range as the other guards (considering that Map of The Realm would be basekit).
- Dropping a guard into a loop
As far i understand that this can be countered in some ways, just dropping a guard into a loop is part of what makes the Knight boring to face, as some people say (i don't totally agree). To adress this - considering all the buffs above - i would put a restriction on the minimum distance the Knight would be able to drop a guard: you have to draw at least 10m of path to deploy a guard. Until you haven't drawn 10m of patrol path, you can end patrol mode; if the patrol times end and you haven't drawn at least 10m of patrol path, your power enters in a cooldown, no guard is deployed and you can't use your power for 3 seconds.
This would force Knight to play more strategically than just dropping a guard into a loop everytime.
Well, thats all for now. I really LOVE the idea of this Killer (power and visual) and i really want this game to improve and get to a healthier state.
Lets discuss! Hope you guys are fine!! Thanks
Comments
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One of his problems is that he puts you in a (lose-lose) situation that you'll take a hit no matter what you do, and that's all he's done is just drop the guard
I heard some suggestions, which is to prevent him from dropping the guard at a distance of less than 10 meters
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Just try to avoid corners...
It's not really his thing only, Artist does same thing, but both are countered by hold W.
It's really not lose lose situation in middle of the map, you can just leave, without add-ons guard won't catch you, which is really annoying and knight lost lot of distance with it.
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This does not mean that he does not need to change, if the killer's real power is only in the corners of the map and this is not healthy at all
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His power is best to use on different survivors (working on gen), that's why surveillance is such a good perk for him. Kinda sucks against SWF tho.
In chase it's usually either in corners or to destroy pallets.
I would like to see option to directly use (button) guard for an action (destroying pallet/gen). That would make overall feeling way better.
Activation/range of guard (circle) could be looked at too. It kinda sucks when you finish path, directly see survivors, but guard won't chase.
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Breaking directly a pallet - without going to patrol mode - would be quite a buff into his chase power, as the Knight would get even better in zonning.
TBH, i think the best part of the Knight is that you are capable to use his power to spread pressure among many survivors or to pincer one survivor, as you choose.
Knight can be an awesome killer with the right tweaks (as i've suggested above)
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that is why i dislike playing vs artist. the killer just seems based around corner-killing. i am aware that you can use her power for range... but i feel like her range is wildly ineffective when I get chased by artist players. it is same thing with knight's guard at range. long range guards are ineffective vs hold w, very good at zoning at corner killing play-styles.
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TBH, i think Artist is more centered around zoning than the Knight (that why i consider her stronger than him).
I think Knight is more focused around controling map areas, spliting pressure among survs when necessary or focusing all his power when needs a quick chase.
Long range patrols can be good against low or medium skilled survivors, but yeah, against good survivors its just waste their time. The problem of buffing too much long range patrols is that we can fall into another Skull Merchant problems, where the killer can control a gen and use his power to control another one from distance. That why i think the healthier for the game would be to buff Knight own chase potential while a guard is on the hunt, so long range patrols can get some value while without becoming too much of a hassle
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"For the Dried Horsemeat, i would suggest something: rework completly this addon and make the extra hunt time tied to total patrol path distance, gaining 1s from 10m total path to 4s at 32m total path. This would incentive Knight players to play more strategically with their power, rewarding then to predict where survivors will go instead of just dropping a guard into a loop (i will talk about that later)"
You mean remove the addon and make this effect basekit?
Although Jailer can be crucial to get a hunt against of a stealth survivor, his speed and chase duration makes him kinda lackluster when compared to the other two.
Not only that, its also the long patrouling time of 24sec, if he doesnt gets in a chase because you placed him wrong, your power is than blocked for whole 24sec instead. What we want (in most cases) is
- High movespeed
- Long chasing time
- short Patrol duration
High movespeed and long chasing helps us to catch the survivor. short Patrol duration helps us if we misplaced the guard in chase to get our power back.
I think if we could despawn the guards by pressing our power again it would help us alot
I like the other stuff that the knight gets a bonus depending on what guard he has.
I think one major design flaw of the knight is that holding "W" counters his power pretty well. Without addons:
Carnifex will make up 2,4m distance in a chase
Assassin will make up 4,8m distance in a chase
The Jailer will make up 1,2m distance in a chase
And thats... not mutch.
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i think both are equally centered around zoning and controlling the map but they zone and control the map a bit different. Artist has less slowdown when controlling the map because it takes less time to get birds off then to lose guard chase on average but DMS blocks gens so she gets same game delay as he does. The knight also has 5% base-kit kicking but 5% regression is not good enough regression to 3 gen and I am not saying this should be buffed because.... 3 gen skull-merchant but you would need around 12-15% guard kicks to drag out the game to 60 minutes with him. 10% would probably drag out the game to maybe 40-45 minutes vs good team. depending on skill-level of survivor, he can kind of drag out the game for 10-15 minutes. if the survivor team is incompetent at breaking 3 gens.
of the two killers, artist has better base-kit for chase. this is one of reasons for her perceived strength. Knight add-on dependant while Artist add-on barely change anything. the other reason is that knight has different skill-set that is not intuitive for average player to learn. there are two skill-sets. the first is understanding of survivor pathing. this is how survivor moves in chase. I want to call the hag skill-set with placing traps but at same time, it is not comparable enough. it is like the predicting of pathing that a survivor is most likely to take. trapper also has this to some degree with traps at loops. it is hard for me to quantify this. the other skill-set is spirit phase-walking. I think both killer have roughly same time efficiency in chase as each other if both sides are equal at playing the role. I just think knight is a bit less easy? to play. He requires a bit more outside of the box thinking in my opinion.
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I think they are similar in some things, but quite different. Both of them are centered around zoning, but what their powers do BEYOND that is different. Artist in kinda of a ranged killer, with their crows being used for sniping (even at short distances). A good artist can get a hit through wall after swarming, even against good survivors; the Knight is a killer focusing on reducing the pressure of the 4v1 mechanics of the game. The problem with the Knight is that is his current state, he is not quite rewarded for getting into a hunt against a good survivor or a coordinated team; Artist, by other side, is very rewarded for hitting a survivor with a crow (aura reading, potential hit across the whole map, survivors need to stop their actions to deal with the crows) and she can do this many times in a row. Knight, on other hand, can be has some rewards (aura reading on the guards, survivors forced to stop their actions) but lose all of his power while doing this, an a survivor can easily negate this pressure by dropping a pallet or jumping a window.
That why i think Artist is stronger than the Knight: her power rewards more for less.
A good survivor will loop the guard while waiting for the banner to be available, or will just hold W to another loop if he/she sees the Knight coming. That why i think a 3% to 5% haste buff while a hunt is active would be game changing for the Knight: i've done some testing with Play with your food and discovered its a very good perk on Knight, as survivors are forced to mindgame or go for the banner, because you can catch them up with the extra speed if they hold W to another loop. The problem is farming stacks can take so much time that you will lose the match before you can use them properly.
Although i know 3 gen Knight can be very annoying to face, i don't think its an effective strategy, as Skull Merchant 3 gening is: most of the time you will have someone with your guard, you chasing another person, and two people doing gens; Skull Merchant can kinda lock all of the 4 survivors outside her zone. I don't think this is ANY HEALTHY for the game, but its a fact. Thats why i didn't ask for a stronger buffs in the hunts: i believe buffed guards hunts (every guard chasing 4.4 for 20s, ex.), where they can deal damage at distance, could turn Knight into a game hostage nightmare; I think would be healthier for the game that every hunts buff the Knight himself, as the raw power would be dependent on the skills of the player, not in a AI.
"I just think knight is a bit less easy? to play. He requires a bit more outside of the box thinking in my opinion." I agree with you. Knight has a interesting skill ceiling, based on predicting survivors moviment and actions. I've won matches with the Knight because a whole team came for a flash save - as i've predicted - and could not handle the surprise of being chase by an assassin while i with the Knight was defending the area where a survivor where slugged. The Knight is not a tierC killer as some people in our community says, but he needs a buff to be a viable killer against top tier survivors.
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- Yeah, make Dried Horsemeat basekit, tied to patrol range (as this addon is the best one in long range patrols)
- I think the guard patrolling an area for a time, even when you intented that guard to chase someone, is a fair punishment for the Knight missing his power - its part of his counterplay. Although i agree the Jailer patrols for too much time, having the ability to cancel your guard at will would make the Knight a killer with no punition on missing his power, what i think its not healthy for the game. You also need to remember that even you miss a patrol, the guard can catch another person entering the guard field of view by mistake or at least lock the loop for a while.
- Buffing the guards hunt base speed can be quite a problem, as this will incentivize three gen and camping playstile with the Knight - we don't want another Skull Merchant. I think only Jailer needs some tweaks, as Carnifex harass a survivor for 24s and can be used as a form of slowdown and info.
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The Knight is not a tierC killer as some people in our community says, but he needs a buff to be a viable killer against top tier survivors.
Without map of the realm. i would agree. with map of the realm, Knight goes from like 2/10 killer to like 4/10 killer. With dried horse meat or call to arm, Knight is like 4.5 roughly.
Although i know 3 gen Knight can be very annoying to face, i don't think its an effective strategy
3 gen for knight is effective strategy with perks. It is boring but it does work. You need to use his iri add-on called knight contract with 3 gen kick perks. Previously old ones were like cob+overcharge and eruption+pwyf. If i was doing it now, it would be something like overcharge/sloppy/eruption/unnerving presence. it plays something like scratch mirror myer's. you pick 3 gen closest gen at the start of the trial and you send out guards that patrol gens until you hit 4th guard. as you hit 4th guard, the 4th guard exposes you so you can play little bit like scratch mirror where you hug the survivor's back, instant place guard. They get exposed. You hit them. They go down. You put them on a hook. You kick bunch of gens to apply eruption and OC/Oppression. Sometimes you kick gens with guards. Rince and repeat until you kill everyone. There is also whole process of breaking a all pallets in an area so that you can use his instant down add-on effectively but this whole process is 3 gen in general for every killer. This strategy used to work with PWYF where you could charge 3 stacks of pwyf then use knight contract's but as of some patch, knight's power now consumes 1 stack of pwyf so 3 gen knight is not that good. You can still do it but it is just sort of a joke build
That why i think Artist is stronger than the Knight: her power rewards more for less.
Lots of killer player put artist very highly. I don't think she's particular good vs good players and this isn't me saying that she is weak or anything. I just think she is overrated in term of overall power-level. Knight's power-level is underrated. it is stronger then people give credit for but i believe reason why artist is overrated and knight is underrated is related to counter-play and base-kit power difference. Knight's base-kit is bad. Knight becomes above average with map of the realm. Artist is above average by default and the add-on like Severed hands, Carrison swarm and Mamia shoes slightly boost her zoning/range capacity. the difference between artist with add-on and no add-on is not very big. It is like 4.0 vs 4.5. Very minimal power difference.
That why i think a 3% to 5% haste buff while a hunt is active would be game changing for the Knight: i've done some testing with Play with your food and discovered its a very good perk on Knight, as survivors are forced to mindgame or go for the banner, because you can catch them up with the extra speed if they hold W to another loop. The problem is farming stacks can take so much time that you will lose the match before you can use them properly.
Knight does not need pwyf to anti-loop. As I said in my previous post, Knight is a corner killer. He gets hits in the corner of the map where he is able pincer survivors with his guards because survivor has no pallet loops to transition to. They either get hit by guard or by your m1. In the center of the map, he is weak because you can transition between pallet loops and stay in the center until knight breaks all pallets in the center. This in turn gives him a bad early game. He gets free hits mid-late game portion of the game because none of pallet resources or window resources end up working against him when he uses his power to effectively zone. This entire logic can also be applied to Artist. Artist can put birds in specific places on most pallet loops and force you walk through birds where she fires bird and it does full heath-state of damage. Artist movement speed is slow down when placing a bird so you can transition to pallets. Just like knight, in corner of the map, she can place birds down where there is no pallet to transition so you either get hit by dire crow or her m1. I haven't talk about this about Dredge but his anti-loop is almost same.
Now I am going to pose a question. Does knight and artist have any answer to running forward? The answer is that both killer have answer to running forward but it is so weak that it barely matters. The knight with Assassin guard and Dried horse meat add-on can do a full patrol path. If he lands the guard chase, the assassin has mostly the statistic's to get the hit onto the survivor. I say mostly because... MFT counters all his guard for hold-w and it is possible to run forward and outlast the assassin in very specific circumstances. The Asasssin guard is 1/3 of knight's guards so he has answer to hold-w 33% of the time. The artist has counter to running forward as well. She can throw birds. If she hits a bird, you become swarmed. When two birds connect, you lose a health-state. Between bird 1 and bird 2, if you start repelling as soon as you are hit as survivor, you have very little time between bird 1 and bird 2 to land follow-up hit onto the survivor. With efficient pathing and running forward, landing follow-up hits as Artist is somewhat challenging if the survivor stays in the Center of the map. You lose a lot of distance for missing. In summary, I think both character not good at countering hold-w strategies and they mostly excel at loop-zoning. The knight has requires a bit more outside of the box thinking to zone effectively from killer player. This is why I think the perception is that Knight is bad and Artist is good. Artist's zoning from killer player is far easy to achieve. it does not require as much strategy or mechanical skill to do. It just sort of works naturally.
-Dropping a guard into a loop
As far i understand that this can be countered in some ways, just dropping a guard into a loop is part of what makes the Knight boring to face, as some people say (i don't totally agree). To adress this - considering all the buffs above - i would put a restriction on the minimum distance the Knight would be able to drop a guard: you have to draw at least 10m of path to deploy a guard. Until you haven't drawn 10m of patrol path, you can end patrol mode; if the patrol times end and you haven't drawn at least 10m of patrol path, your power enters in a cooldown, no guard is deployed and you can't use your power for 3 seconds.
This is like saying to artist that you should not be able to direct-hit with birds and take full health-states. You should always get swarmed. Alternatively, making so you are unable to place birds within 10 meters of pallet or window achieves a similar effect as change 1. the change makes no sense. the power are meant to be used at loops. the summary of both characters is that they have strong tile shutdown but their tile-set shutdown is easy to outplay by strategically running forward as survivor. in my opinion, they're not good characters but they are stronger then m1 killers where you can greed loops and zero tile shutdown.
I would not bother to change anything about his loop shutdown. I would just give options to counter running forward so that running forward as survivor is more skill-based. The 5 changes that would do that is
-increase detection radius of Assassin and Carnifex to 12 meters, rework map of the realm to do something else.
-Increase max patrol path by 10 meters( half of the call to arms base-kit), call to arm still increase m/s of patrol path by 25%.
-Knight guards gain 5% bonus base movement speed when he draws a patrol path greater then 10 meters.
-When the Jailer is in the chase, the survivor's suffer a 3% hindered penalty during the chase.
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To avoid the old prayer bread problem with Knight.
-When knight uses his power, a sound is emitted globally around the map.
With these 5 changes, he does no longer relies on pincer attacks to be effective. He can just use his power everywhere and if he lands guard chase. The guard will get a hit itself. He would feel like Summoner type character where guards do everything for him. Knight can still do pincer attack but he is not 100% entirely reliant on that to get downs. right now he is entirely reliant on pincer attacks and it drags his gameplay down. Knight would be high-tier killer with said changes.
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The Counterplay against Knight is pressing "W". The knight allready needs to stand to use his power and if he puts his guard close they need 2,5sec. to even activate, whats alot.
AND you can pick up the flag to end the chase and get a speedboost.
Thats the counterplay, and as knight players we can only be happy that people still figured it out. Since the guard is not cutting your way but only following your path, you can just use any obstacle to do 180 and catch the flag. You dont even need an obstacle or loop, its only important that the halfcircle you walk is not to narrow
the guard can catch another person entering the guard field of view
Would be a point, if there wasnt this big green circle, so every suv can see the range and easily avoid it.
Beeing a M1 killer without an ability for 24sec is NOT a good thing.
Buffing the guards hunt base speed can be quite a problem, as this will incentivize three gen and camping playstile with the Knight - we don't want another Skull Merchant
No thats ATM the case. How you said the Jailor is good in "locking things up". If you could stop your power by pressing your powerbutton again (and than your guards are on a cd for idk 3-5sec) , this woulndt change anything in a way of 3gens, but it would make it more useable in chases
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Without map of the realm. i would agree. with map of the realm, Knight goes from like 2/10 killer to like 4/10 killer. With dried horse meat or call to arm, Knight is like 4.5 roughly
I think the Knight can be considered a 4/10 without map of the realm, and a 6.5/10 with it.
3 gen for knight is effective strategy with perks. It is boring but it does work. You need to use his iri add-on called knight contract with 3 gen kick perks. Previously old ones were like cob+overcharge and eruption+pwyf.
I've face this strat many times, and the Knight lost. TBH, i think 3gen Knight is annoying as hell, but not strong (different from the Skull Merchant). I've tested this strat sometimes and although i didn't lost, i only won because survivor were bad and uncoordinated (one survivor fell down to a Jailer).
Knight does not need pwyf to anti-loop. As I said in my previous post, Knight is a corner killer. He gets hits in the corner of the map where he is able pincer survivors with his guards because survivor has no pallet loops to transition to. They either get hit by guard or by your m1. In the center of the map, he is weak because you can transition between pallet loops and stay in the center until knight breaks all pallets in the center. This in turn gives him a bad early game. He gets free hits mid-late game portion of the game because none of pallet resources or window resources end up working against him when he uses his power to effectively zone
That why i'm asking for a for a haste buff for the Knight -> He wouldn't be a "corner killer" but a strong anti-loop killer, even in the early match.
The knight with Assassin guard and Dried horse meat add-on can do a full patrol path. If he lands the guard chase, the assassin has mostly the statistic's to get the hit onto the survivor.
A good survivor will jump a window or drop a pallet as the guard gets close, or even do a 180 move around an obstacle and get the banner, even against the assassin.
I wont quote everything, but:
I think Knight should have a restriction on how short his patrols can be (in exchange for some HEAVY BUFFS in his kit), so he would not put survivors into a lose-lose situation in corner (but a good Knight player could still get a hit if plans properly).
- I don't think guards should get easy hits by themselves, as it would make the Knight a worse Skull Merchant in holding gens and the game hostage, or even camping. Although i like the idea of a Knight playing like a Summoner, i think most of his gameplay would be toward holding the game until everyone is dead. I think the way to buff Knight is leaving the guards a little bit strong, but making Knight a very strong M1 killer while his guards are in a hunt. Most of his problems would be solved this way.
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I think the way to buff Knight is leaving the guards a little bit strong, but making Knight a very strong M1 killer while his guards are in a hunt. Most of his problems would be solved this way.
The knight is already at his strongest when he has guard chasing you. It puts pressure on the survivor to move away from loops. The problem is that when your in the center of the map, moving away from loops is too easy because there a lot of pallets that survivors can go to outrun both knight and guard at same time when running in a straight line. That is what hold-w counter is referring to in your initial post.
he would not put survivors into a lose-lose situation in corner (but a good Knight player could still get a hit if plans properly).
The knight get hits when survivor cannot transition between loops and knight can pincer attack the survivor. He already has strong anti-loop. It is that his anti-loop is entirely avoidable if there are loops for survivor to transition. The places where it is unavoidable is where knight shines. These places are in the corner of the map. This is why you can avoid the corner of the maps vs knight and you path in a way that makes it as difficult as possible for knight to do pincer attack. This is how you loop knight and how you waste knight's time in the chase. Giving knight 5% haste makes him better at cutting people off at loops in the corner of the map in which he already excel at. he does not need help at that. adding 10 meter restriction will not change his strength in the corner of the map because he can preemptively use his power as survivor is reaching the corner of the map. he still get same zoning hits. As survivor, only way to outplay his zoning is to avoid the corner of the map. by the time, he becomes not loopable, you should finish 4/5 or all generators. 10 meter restriction would make more clunky to play without changing much about this strength.
Knight needs opposite types of buffs. he needs guards to get hits on their own when he successful predicts the survivor movement in green orb form. with higher m/s on carnifex and dried horse meat, both these guards would be effective at creating risk for hold-w for survivor while jailer would still specialize in that pincer-attack play-style. current knight base-kit promotes using all 3 guards in exact same jailer way.
A good survivor will loop the guard while waiting for the banner to be available
You can camp the banner as the knight. As long your closer to the proximity of the banner then survivor then you can m1 them before they get to the banner. When you m1 a survivor, you cancel the guard chase which makes banner disappear. The grabbing banner for survivor is generally only effective when knight is not chasing you with the guard.
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Post edited by rezor132 on0
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Hello. As i see you understand the main problems of the knight, especially his anti-looping gameplay. You try to make him more strategic, to devide on different parts of map. But for this the knight needs complete rework. Actually, yesterday i posted the knight rework which makes him play strategically +i solved the 3 gen problem as well, as i think. So hope you will like it, you can check it in my discussions in my profile or find it.
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Knight needs opposite types of buffs. he needs guards to get hits on their own when he successful predicts the survivor movement in green orb form. with higher m/s on carnifex and dried horse meat, both these guards would be effective at creating risk for hold-w for survivor while jailer would still specialize in that pincer-attack play-style. current knight base-kit promotes using all 3 guards in exact same jailer way.
I understand the buff for this type of gameplay, but the Knight would become the most hated killer in our communitty, as many would use him to play like a Skull Merchant: Stand on a trigen, hurt survivors from afar and stop the game progress. Also, Behaviour also pointed out that the Knight's guards, by THEIR DESIGN, are not made to get hits without the help of the Knight himself. So, i think the probablity of them buffing the guards to the point that they can hit a survivor alone is minimal.
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I don't see how a chase killer standing in a 3 gen on knight is any different from any other chase killer standing in a 3 gen. that sounds like an excuse to not buff the killer.
Also, Behaviour also pointed out that the Knight's guards, by THEIR DESIGN, are not made to get hits without the help of the Knight himself
in that sense, knight's already perfect in that design aspect but his power-level will remain gated until that design is altered.
So, i think the probablity of them buffing the guards to the point that they can hit a survivor alone is minimal.
assassin can downs people with dried horse meat in some instances. it is only carnifex that fails achieve same goal. the jailer has that 2 vs 1 drop guard at loop design and do pincer attack design that you label as "Knight is boring to face" in your initial post. 2vs1 is part of game design at loops for knight. The issue is that being primary design and not secondary design makes him have a lot more weaknesses than he should have. his primary design should be long-range guard spawn patrols and his secondary design should be that 2vs1 gameplay which survivor will dislike due to the binary "you get hit here" gameplay.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
I don't see how a chase killer standing in a 3 gen on knight is any different from any other chase killer standing in a 3 gen. that sounds like an excuse to not buff the killer.
Because Knight could stay within the 3gen and use his guards to harm/down people at distance, never comitting to a chase to get some progress. To be honest, i don't any other killer that can do that. If there is a way to get survivors PERMANENTLY broken and injured, the Twins could be played like this.
Anyway, my point still stand: Knight would be worse than Skull Merchant at holding 3gen buffing only the guards by themselves. I still think that buffing Knight so he becomes a strong chase killer would be the best way.
the jailer has that 2 vs 1 drop guard at loop design and do pincer attack design that you label as "Knight is boring to face" in your initial post.
Its not me, but a great part of our community think this. I always like to face a Knight, especially since his skillcap can be so high, that you can outplay him or be outplayed.
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Yeah, its hold W because of how much distance the Knight loses when he uses his power and has not compensation besides a small haste buff. If Knight had another thing to compensate this, i think he would be in a very fine position.
I think Knight should have some kind of punishment for missing a patrol - as Artist must endure some too when she put her crowls in the wrong position. This considering Knight could have some buffs
Yes, i also think that the circle in the ground should be deleted or at least semi-transparent, forcing survivors to stealth against the guards, like they would do in some games like Metal Gear Solid or Dishonored.
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I think Knight should have some kind of punishment for missing a patrol - as Artist must endure some too when she put her crowls in the wrong position. This considering Knight could have some buffs
He has? He looses a ton of distance since he have to stand while using the power. After he missed the patrol his power is blocked (since the patron is active for 12 (guard, assasin) or 24 (jailer). Alone the standing still is a massiv disadvantage. It takes way longer for the knight as for artist to use the power.
The artist is getting slowed down to 3,68 m/s while using the power, the knight is getting slowed down to 0.0
So im not sure what you mean and why you want to punish the knight even more for missing a patrol
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