Hot Topic - Do 'bleed outs' increase Killer MMR?
I've seen people stating that they do not and also that devs will not answer the question directly.
I was personally under the impression that any kill was a + for killers / - for survivors with the opposite being true for escapes.
If they do not, this seems particularly abusable as you can just 0-2 hook everyone and then slug for bleed outs making decent BP without raising your mmr/keeping your own games easy if you want to be particularly nasty or just feel like it at any particular time.
I ask you, random reader, what YOU think/know!
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The only things the devs have stated that don't count towards mmr is hatch escape.
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People are certainly popping off in the other slugging topic stating otherwise >_>
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Anyone happen to have a link to the devs discussing this?
Currently on mobile and searching is a pain :(
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BHVR has stated that kills increase a killer's MMR. They've never really defined 'kills' but since they're using the word 'kills' and not 'sacrifices' I'd assume bleedouts/moris/hour-long games do increase MMR.
Post edited by Krazzik on2 -
I'd assume so, too, but @Melinko and @apathyinc have brought up some interesting points in this topic, particularly about a video showing an MMR tracker:
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yes they do. like 2 years ago, there was a dev q&a twitch stream that described how MMR works. basically your MMR goes up and down based off whether you escaped through an exit gate. dying on floor is not escaping through exit gate so your MMR is decreased. there was only 1 exception. that exception is the hatch. if you escape through hatch, you get no mmr increase or decrease.
The emblem system is its own separate system. it is mostly bloodpoint gain system for playing the game over time. it tracks some events in the game and gives you pip or depip. I would just call it morale system. if you do a lot of good morale stuff for entity, you get bloodpoints. nothing more.
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That is what I thought - any kill = + for killer / - for survivor. Yet I see people arguing against it, as linked above, stating that they have also seen video proof of their claims on hacked accounts.
I know it is like beating a dead horse, but I enjoy investigating such claims >:3
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This topic has come up before, and I always assumed it didn't but apparently data mining confirms it does (someone informed me once). I've actually said that I think a good way to disincentivize slugging is to make bleed outs not count as kills/count towards MMR. Won't stop it obviously, but people might be less inclined to not care about people spending the game just laying on the floor if there was a disadvantage to them as well.
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If they didn't count, you could just drop your MMR (my Wraith MMR is pretty negligible as I use him for tome stuff/let people go), get as many BP as you want off a weak group via hooks/chases/etc, then slug them all until death - repeat as desired.
Not counting slug deaths as kills would be hugely problematic, imo.
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I mean have them considered null, like hatch escape is. So MMR doesn't move at all.
Edit: Peanits also said that MMR increases also depends on your opponents MMR. If you beat someone with a lower MMR then it doesn't affect yours because the game expected you to beat them. So purposely seeking out weaker opponents has no benefit either. The best increase comes from beating opponents with higher MMR
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i don't think bleeding people out is any better than just letting them go if you want to lower your mmr since i'd assume survivors escaping would lower it and bleeding would, neutralize it? bleeding people barely gives any bloodpoints anyway. idk about emblems but i doubt it does anything there either. if it does increase your mmr why would you not just hook and get your points? no point either way.
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I assume it would, but im not sure since devs killed the slug for adept strat.
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If slug to death equals no gain or loss ofMMR.
A 4k is a 4k, If they bleed out, get hooked, or get mori they still die and you win. For some kills are all that matter. If you tell them they can get easier or the same games just by wasting four minutes, many would waste time to avoid harder matches.
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Since bleeding out and killing by a mori doesn’t count for adept, I don’t think it increases mmr
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It is entirely possible that at one point, MMR was impacted by bleedouts. @Raccoon and others have said it did and all my evidence is from recent events. The most notable being that the Devs did comment in a thread that you could no longer get an adept or get credit for a 4k challenge with a bleedout. It doesn't count towards that, which would stand to reason that if it doesn't give credit for acheivements, that the change would have an impact on MMR results as well. Also, the video evidence is from streamers using cheats, so who knows if they are actually seeing the real MMR.
In the end though, the real thing is this is a game. Not a competition with a cash prize. There is 5 people playing each match, and for one person to feel that they just have to get a 4k to have fun and that they can't possibly risk a hatch escape so they'll leave someone to do nothing for four minutes. That to me is pretty toxic and honestly not great for the community nor is it a good sign for the player themself. It was said on her multiple times, if you can only have fun if you win, that's a bad mental health issue. I get it, there is achievements and cosmetics but you can accomplish all of that without sleezy moves. Hell, the summer BBQ event said get a 4k with the clown for his one outfit. Took two tries, no slugging, no camping, no tunneling. Maybe I got lucky, but I've seen plenty of people complete achievements without a slug, a tunnel or a camp. So in the end, there is no need for it.
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Contrary to what some people might remember, the devs have never directly defined a bleed out as a kill in their communications. They said kills increased MMR, but people just dumped bleed outs in that category because the survivor dies. But even though the survivor dies, the game has never rewarded a killer for it.
By playing the current game and even watching old videos of it, a player can see that bleed outs have never given any blood points, emblems, contributed towards daily rituals, tome challenges (even the kill X by any means ones), or adept achievements. If the game has never rewarded a killer for bleed outs, what kind of logic says bleed outs will increase their MMR?
I've watched some players for the past few years who bleed out survivors every match. They never face any experienced survivors, just players who say "that was my first game" or have a trivial amount of hours playing the game. This is while the killer player has thousands of hours and nobody ever really escapes out the gates in their matches. If they were getting 4Ks all the time, they would go against more experienced players. but they don't. And the only thing that is different about these killer's game play is the bleed outs. It's pretty pathetic, but it's happening.
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I think bleed outs does not increase your kill total. So just going for bleed outs make your stats look very bad.
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Just think about these 2 scenarios:
1) Normal surv match, you get the hatch at the end.
2) Same surv match, but you bleed out at the end.
Pretty sure the result in MMR is the same. That's why idc about hatch anymore, it's meaningless.
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If bleed outs do not increase MMR, people can intentionally farm weak groups then bleed them out to grief/kill them without changing their own MMR.
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That I don't know but in disabointed if survivor bleed out because that cost me pips and kill in sacrifise category stat. Ofcourse is someone does not care about those then it's not big deal.
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