Is Save the Best for Last going to be looked at?
It is miserable to go against this perk when playing solo queue. It causes unhooking to be close to impossible, mostly on hill hooks, edge hooks and basement hooks and the Obsession is usually unaware how the perk works.
I am not sure the proper change the perk would need but I hope it’s at least on the radar of being looked at.
Maybe make special attacks loose 1 token instead of 2? The killer should not be able to have 8 stacks the entire game and avoid the obsession. I am tired of pretending that the perk is in a good spot when it is not.
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Anti-facecamp feature is being worked on, that should ease up STBFL camping.
No need to cripple a perk of m1 killers.
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I've always said I thought it should go back to how it was before 6.1.0.
Ie, make the maximum stacks be 6 instead of 8
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Agreed
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Should be 4% per token and tokens should also be lost anytime the obsession loses a health state, not just on basic attack. The perk doesn't have enough counterplay against M2 killers.
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The killers that you are defining as "M2" killers want to hit you with their power anyway not their basic attack, so its not actually used on them.
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This would just be a straight nerf from 6.1.0.
Old one was 3 second wipe animation at 8 stacks = 1.8 second animation
Your proposal is 2.7 wipe animation at 6 stacks = 1.84 second animation.
Small nerf, but definitely not putting it to "pre 6.1.0" changes.
Also, STBFL has a relatively low pick rate at around 11-12% per nightlight AND the official stats.
It's also one of the perks that makes m1 killers stronger and more viable whereas the problem killers like nurse blight and spirit get effectively 0 use out of it.
You'd basically be nerfing a core perk on killers who don't need a nerf, while not addressing the killers that continue to be a problem.
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That's a .04 second nerf. Hardly something to be worked up over.
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i agree it's too strong in camping situations otherwise i don't mind it
but as someone pointed out there's a basekit anti camping feature coming, maybe when it's implemented we won't need to nerf stbfl.
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You can't be serious
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STBFL while a good perk, is not nearly as strong as people pretend it is.
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Oh no, why do I always face the same 2-3 killers? I know, let's nerf STBFL. That will definitely make more people play different killers.
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Stbfl is a fine perk that helps out weak killer exponentially more than strong ones. Only exception is the Xenomorph but even on them it is by far not required in any sense.
The other 3 killers that can use the Perk well and save stacks are Demogorgon, Pig and Trapper. 3 Killers that really dont have it good right now.
I understand that the Perk is very strong g as a camping tool, therefore I would make it that, just like with the anti facecamp, when the killer stays around the hook for x amount of time without any survivor in range, every survivor that approaches then for an unhook will automatically count as the obsession, meaning that the killer will lose 2 stacks on hit. This makes exchanges in camping situations way more punishing for the killer.
I find the current stacks to he fair. The killer has to build it up over the match to get value from it. The value is faster chases and no shift w.
StBfL does, on most maps, never prevent the survivor from reaching any tile. It however prevents the survivor from running halfway across the map and chosing a structure of their choice. They have to use the very next structure.
I know this because I dont play Pig without Stbfl.
I sometimes also play her only with Stbfl.
It's one of the best designed perks in dbd with the downside that it can be an effective camping tool. A lot of perks have some kind of downside in this way. Pain resonance for example is still great for camping.
I don't think the perks direct strength in chase should be nerfed in any way only because countering it in soloq is rough, when it's one of the last perks that gives weaker killers a solid chance against good loopers on strong maps.
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The way you're describing this perk being used is as a means for the killer to facecamp with no consequences. In this case, it's not the perk that's the problem, it's facecamping.
The devs are working on an anti-camping mechanic that will be released "soon(tm)" and should help deal with this. You can also mitigate this by having the obsession trade hooks, which costs the killer 4 stonks and buys time for the team to do gens. If camping is a common problem you face you can also run anti-camping/tunneling perks to make this strategy less feasible.
Otherwise, STBFL is just a good chase perk that primarily helps M1 killers and isn't OP at all. M1 killers don't need more nerfs.
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I guess now that there aren’t any more gen regression perks to nerf, people have started to look at chase perks instead.
Sure hitting the Obsession with M2 could remove 1 stack instead of 0, other than that the perk is fine.
People seem to forget that to get the perk to full strength, a Killer has to hit a non Obsession Survivor 8 times. That means good looping and not giving so much free hits makes this perk weaker.
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Power creep is a huge a problem with killers and Save the Best for Last is no exception. When they really made the killer animations all much faster, it is like they forgot to address this perk.
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Still a nerf, also not the main point of my post which you didn't address.
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Its almost like people WANT to play against nurse blight and spirit every game.
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well is should at least not gain a stack or cool-down reduction when hitting a survivor with the endurance status effects.
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And Wesker! Don't forget Wesker. We do love Dead By Wesker.
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why? have you ever consider this 1000 iq strategy at hooks.
step 1 - take a hit near a hook.
step 2 - get your teammate to unhook while killer is in hit recovery
step 3 - you successfully unhooked someone. a cookie for you.
-- they used to have a perk in the ptb called background player where when you unhook someone, you break into a sprint for 6 second for 150% m/s but people said it encouraged tunneling. so they removed it. that perk would be good for vs proxy campers.
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If one person came to unhook, that person would probably go down before they completed the unhook action thanks to STBFL. If two people came to unhook, even if A took the first hit and B took the second hit while A unhooked, there is a likelihood that A or B will still go down unless the unhooked Survivor manages to tank the third hit with BT base kit.
It still comes back to the mentality that Survivors should get to unhook in front of the Killer and everyone should still manage to escape without repercussions which is why hook grabs got removed in the first place. Even if STBFL got nerfed to not work near hooks but a new Killer perk that could reduce unhook speed was released, people would still call for said perk to be nerfed.
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STBFL is fine. Don't need to nerf M1 Killers.
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it should be reduced from 5% each stack to 4%. going from 40% max to 32%. back before 6.1.0, killers had a 3 second sucessful hit animation after hitting a survivor, with STBFL it made it go to 1.8 seconds. in patch 6.1.0, it reduced killers hit anim from 3 to 2.7, so STBFL made it go from 1.8 max to 1.62 max. with the percentage being 4% it makes it go from the current 1.62 seconds max to 1.83 seconds. its 0.03 seconds longer than before patch 6.1.0, but its still a great reduction and would balance it out again.
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not if you time hit with unhook. that exactly how you save people from hook when playing end game collapse.
It still comes back to the mentality that Survivors should get to unhook in front of the Killer and everyone should still manage to escape without repercussions which is why hook grabs got removed in the first place.
grabs got removed because they entirely prevent 1 person from ever saving the unhook during mid-game. the killer in 1vs1 had zero obligations hit survivor. they could just constantly wait until survivor over-commits to unhooking then grab them and slug them. basically face-camping in a nutshell. you never needed stbfl to camp. with removal of hook grabs, you can brute force hook trade on most regular m1 killers regardless of stbfl stacks.
you can prevent unhooks using instant down killers but after their camping measures come into place. you won't be able stand near hook with instant downs because 16 meter restriction. if you do, the survivor will unhook themselves at 59 seconds of first or 2nd hook stage where they get endurence for 10 seconds and 10% haste for 10 seconds. I mean you can still like proxy camp -> tunnel people off hooks but you won't get any automatic regression type rewards by that method. by standing so far away from hook, the survivor has opportunity to stealth near hook and unhook before you can instant down them. in other words, they mostly get unhook every time.
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If you're nitpick about 0.04sec nerf and dont want @Pulsar 's idea that bring it back to the maximum cool down of 1.84, which is 0.04sec less than the pre 6.1.0
Then why you're okay with extra 0.18sec of 6.1.0?
Plus, Pulsa's idea isnt a nerf to pre 6.1.0; where you have to earn 8 stacks to get 1.8 ; you only need 6 stacks to get to 1.84
A good change is to give player a few cookie from a jar, and if they want they can have the remaining in the jar. Not giving a few cookies for free on top of the whole jar.
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Sometimes yes, however that’s not always the case. It’s also too oppressive for camping and while I agree with the general consensus that it does help M1 killers quite a bit, it would be better if those killers got actual changes that weren’t perk-reliant and BHVR continues to address bad map design to help them. STBFL’s usage rate isn’t as high as some of the other meta perks because some killers don’t have much use for it. But many still do and that doesn’t make the perk any less overtuned.
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Its like none of you actually read the rest of, and the main point of the post. If you want to know why, literally reread what i wrote, and scroll down a little bit beyond the first 2 sentences.
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We shouldn't be nerfing perks because of camping, which is a LOSING strategy for killers if the survivors play around it, albeit an unfun one. We should be fixing camping as a whole, not nerfing or buffing perks because of it.
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6 stacks is a nerf as well though. Currently if you down the obsession you keep 4 tokens but with 6 you would only have 2, which is barely anything.
Also 1.84 is wrong, it’s actually 1.89 at 6 stacks currently. So yes, it would be an overall nerf.
I don’t see any need to nerf STBFL. It only works on the mid-low tier killers and has no benefit on the strongest one. Needing it would just make the gap between them bigger. If camping with STBFL is an issue then just nerf camping instead.
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Camping isn’t the only thing making STBFL too strong.
Besides, even when the devs eventually add the anti-camp mechanic, it’s unlikely camping can ever be completely fixed or removed entirely unless they implement much more drastic measures to a point where it may not be worth it if it has a ripple effect on other parts of the game (much like their disastrous base UB test did). It doesn’t hurt to help ensure perks don’t make those strategies even more frustrating to face than they already are.
Making it 4% is not going to make it useless, it’ll just push it closer to how it was prior to 6.1.0; it would actually still be faster than the pre-6.1.0 cooldowns all the way up to 7 stacks and only slightly worse at 8.
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You're using stats from all killers, and from an unreliable source. When STBFL literally does nothing for a good portion of the killer roster. Would love to see official perk stats on, say, Demo and Nemesis players at mid and higher mmr. I guarantee it's higher than 11% on them. And doesn't change the fact it was collaterally buffed by the basekit cooldown reductions and that should be fixed (you can even have your extra 0.04 seconds).
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The most important point i made is, what killers is STBFL actually good on? The ones that need it. The ones that are already struggling. Why do you want to nerf a staple perk for killers who don't need to be nerfed?
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-Makes the perk lose tokens if the obsession loses a health state by any means
-Deactivates when the obsession is dead
Done, fair nerfs
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Until there's no collision when endurance is active, that's a no-go.
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I don't think the perk needs any real nerfs. The only nice change to the perk would be, to inform obsession (because soloQ), that killer has the perk - but only after he accumulated some tokens (say when killer has 5 of them).
At that point SWF already knows and should send obsession to take stacks. So this would be soloQ only buff (which should fix the camping problem too as obsession should be able to take stacks even if killer camps).
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By what you say about able to save more stacks, I can say you can only need to get 3 stacks (2.43) and the cooldown is still better than 4 stack pre 6.1.0 (2.40)
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If it needs to be nerfed (which I don't think it does), why not just reduce the bonus from 5 to 4.5%? It would end up at 1.72 seconds at 8 stacks which seems like a fair middle ground.
Or they could just fix camping and leave STBFL as is.
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Crazy idea but hear me out:
Buff the killers who rely so heavily on this perk so it doesn't feel like a necessity both to use it and to camp, with or without it.
The killers who get the most value out of it are among the weakest in the roster: Trapper, Pig, Clown, etc. (That said, Wraith isn't particularly weak right now, but it also shines on him.)
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Oh yeah, because you play against Demo or Nemesis every other game. :)
I really don't get it why are you upset from demo or nemesis being good with one perk if there are literally killers who can win easily without any perk against a good team, ridiculous.
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BTW even if killer has 8 stacks you can trade if you are close enough.
But still, get rid of camping and stbfl issue disappears.
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