Simple Basekit Buffs for the Weaker Half of Killers
In the light of Trapper's basekitting of Coffee Grounds, what are some other simple buffs that you would like/think wouldn't be too much? Here are some ideas I have.
Myers: T2 normally takes 5 stalk points, and T3 takes 5 stalk points. The suggestion is to shift T2 to 1 stalk point, and the first T3 taking 9 stalk points (subsequent T3s still needing 5 points). That way it still takes 10 points total for T3, but you can become a normal M1 Killer sooner without taking too many stalk points from the first person found. Also add-ons like Hair Bow show that they have the codebase to have a first/subsequent stalk rate be different. Tombstone Piece also deletes old progress, so this would require the full 9 points in addition to the 15 bonus points needed, removing the ability to use it twice in one match.
Freddy: Toggle for Pallets/Snares like Clown bottles, with recycling the oldest trap like Singularity/Hag (and more). To keep the same number of each trap, it could have 15 tokens, with 2 tokens per pallet and 3 tokens per snare (5x3 is 15 tokens for 5 snares, and 7x2 is 14 tokens for 7 pallets).
Clown: +1 basekit bottle. Additionally (or alternatively) yellow bottles take .5s instead of 1s to activate. If 8 bottles are too many, then the shorter yellow bottle suggestion could replace one of the bottle count add-ons. (Redhead's Pinky finger would need -4 bottles instead of -3 to keep them starting at 1 bottle.)
Pig: Reduce the Charge miss CD from 2s -> 1.75s, maybe even 1.5s.
Legion: Feral Frenzy Vault time from .9s -> .78s. This change would basically be basekitting Bamboozle speed back when it worked on power vaults. (Technically Bamboozle and Fire Up used to work with Frenzy vaults, but after Wesker came out they removed vault speed perks from affecting power based vaults. Singularity and Wraith add-ons give a vault speed bonus, and Myers reduces the base vault speed value, so they aren't 'power vaulting'.)
Ghostface: Revealing Ghostface applies Hindered 10% to the Survivor who revealed him for the Killer Instinct duration (2s default, 4s with Marked Map). You can't reveal when you are Marked (without frame perfect reveal + latency), so no worries about this double punishing players. This just helps Ghostface in chase to either force Survivors to not look and enable greater mindgames, or look and potentially slow themselves down. You can also reveal leading into a vault/pallet for safe counterplay. If this is too powerful we could raise the stalk CD back up to 24s rather than 20s from the previous buff.
Comments
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Myers: Add a toned down version of Scratch Mirror's aura reading to his basekit.
If you want to be generous, give him the ability to sacrifice a small amount of his time in tier three to remove his terror radius. Rework his insta-kill add-ons to be balanced around his new strengths.
Freddy: Freddy can now teleport to his Snares. Dream Pallets when dropped, leave the survivor blind and oblivious.
Nurse: Anxious Gasp becomes basekit.
Hag: Hag goes on vacation and never comes back.
Pig: Faster movment speed when in stealth. I've always wanted to see a Pig ice-skating.
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Anxious Gasp being base kit would be so fun!! That's a fun idea that isn't too broken/overpowered but definitely elevates her creep factor.
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I'm just sick of running out of it 😆
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I like all of these but Meyers. Meyers just needs good number buffs and delete kill addons (especially piece). All the other buffs feels fine. This includes 10% hindered for GF (and I don't think it would be too much).
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clown is not 0.5 second to activate yellow bottles. it is 2.5 seconds... it takes longer to activate then placing artist birds and knight's guards.
gf change is interesting except for the part where... it becomes worse to stalk people then to not stalk people. it is easier to use night shroud to direct hit people immediately then it is to stalk then hit people. the mechanic ends up punishing you for successfully stalking and rewards you for not stalking. I do understand that gf stalking is hard to use but i think this is wrong approach to improving him. one thing that i have thought about as an idea was that when ghostface is in night shroud, he can hear sound cues visually similar to how Xenomorph can hear footsteps when he is underneath the tunnel. The idea is that you can visual hear survivors to know which side of generator they are repairing and this gives him a mini-nurse calling. at base, it would only work up to 16 meters but if he crouches, it would be increased by 8 meters. the visual noise indicator has an active window of ~1.5 seconds with a cooldown of 6 seconds to not make too much of a wall-hack tool at loops. these number might need to be adjusted to be higher depending on how much survivor complains about wall-hacking at loops...
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Clown - I coulda swore this entire time I've been playing him it only took 1s. That's friggin' nutty. I even checked the wiki before posting, yet somehow I just completely missed that. The concept is still sound, I just totally spaced on the numbers. Reduce it to 1.5s from 2.5s and it'd be a simple QoL change.
GF - I'd agree against people who don't heal (how it would be better to not stalk), but my favorite build relies on Iri Cam as an on-demand Floods of Rage, so I currently Mark injured Survs as well as healthy. The best way to play Ghosty is always down the healthy marked Survs, because it bypasses all of the perks that accentuate chase based frustrations. I jokingly and pejoratively call Ghostfaces that chase more than stalk 'Chasefaces', and they always suck at the game, and only win matches due to soloq stupidity.
I also picked the Hindered numbers to be weaker than most base power forms of Hindered, and I also believe 10% still allows for fast vaults as opposed to 15% (Clown and Freddy and Artist's add-on, with Clown being Cloud +2s, and Freddy being puddle +3s). To keep things more normalized, it could use Wesker's 8% as the 'normal' middle number between 3% and 15%, although Hag has 9% on her Iri for some bizarre reason, so 10% wouldn't be too crazy either. (I just checked the math, and 7.5% would be perfect to lose 1 'hold W' second, or .6m of distance. So based on how much stronger they would want Ghosty to be, this range 7.5%-10% would likely all be fine.)
Personally I think a better design would be a better buff for downing marks, but the only good ability currently is the Iri Cam, and that is just too strong to basekit. Some more complicated buffs would be a Gift of Pain styled penalty (for a marked down) with maybe Hemorrhage only (no Mangled) and only half the speed penalty only for repairs. Similarly I think your concept is more complicated than the intention of this thread, simple(r) actionable buffs. Tying the hindered to the KI duration allows for a worthless add-on to be usable as a side buff.
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Not really a fan of the Ghostface suggestion. It really just rewards misplays and removes a part of his counterplay.
As a Ghostface main I would rather just have “Philly” be basekit so I can run some of his more fun add ons more often along with fixing his leaning so that it feels smoother and more useable in a chase. That’s all I really think he needs.
Or if you really wanted to encourage more players to stalk, add a small Haste after marking someone. Not as much as the Knife Sheath add on, maybe like a 5-7% Haste for 3 seconds.
The rest are good suggestions and I honestly think Myers would still be alright even if you just lowered T1 to 1 stalk point and kept T3 at 5 stalk points as it is.
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I get the hindered isn't the best option, but I would disagree that it removes any significant part of counterplay. The original 10% 2s hindered would remove .8m, which is 1.33 'hold W' seconds in chase, but doesn't alter pallets or fast vaults. I didn't want to basekit Philly because I've mostly found no use for it outside of 'Chase stalking'. If you stalk out of chase, the .5s/1s saved is nearly meaningless. I also didn't want to basekit a purple add-on, even as a lesser form. When stalking correctly as Ghosty, DropKnife+Coup is busted. A reward for a down would be better basekit solution imo, but I didn't want too complicated of a suggestion either. I suggested a half Gift of Pain in the final paragraph here
but I still think it might be too complicated for this type of post.
As far as Myers is concerned, I don't have problems with him right now, so I just wanted to keep the 10 points for the first T3, and if you popped it exclusively from the first person you stalked, you wouldn't be able to stalk them for the rest of the match. I wouldn't have too much of a problem if the first T2 stayed at 5 points, but I was playing a bit conservatively with the suggestions. Both Myers' and Freddy's suggested changes might still be too complicated beyond the simple number tweaks compared to Clown/Legion/Pig.
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Off with the fingies from my yellows! Entire Clown-generations base their mindgames on that timing!
+1 bottles is a sound and realistic buff that still won't catapult Mr Chase to the higher tiers.
For added QoL, I'd suggest free bottle-switch, without having to wait out a timer and animations.
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Trapper - Trappers sack without the "can't pickup" penalty.
Nurse - Plaid Flannel. QOL change.
Artist - Severed Hands
Hag - Rope Necklet - QOL.
Twins - Toy Sword - QOL
Bubba - Chainsaw File - QOL
Doctor - Calm class 2
Onryo - Iri tape, essentially reverting half the rework.
Knight - Map of the realm
Xeno - Self destruct Bolt
Singularity - Kids Ball glove + Foreign Plant fibers
Trickster - Trick Blades + Caged Heart Shoes
All in all, theres alot of addons that either make sense to be basekit due to the characters power (Like trickster's trick blades) or should just be basekit for accessibility and basic QOL (like nurse's Plaid flannel)
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It'd be nice if knight didn't need Map of the Realm...
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Ehm... survivors are permanently oblivious in the Dreamworld and this is the only time for them to interact with Dream Pallets
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I would just make that base kit then rework the addon
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Since when is Ghostface weaker half? He got more buffs than rest of those combined....
Pig needs way more
Claw, Legion sure
I would like to see that for Freddy
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The Clown's yellow bottle need to have a bit of activation time, the more you play him the more you use them, especially further and ahead of time and with a lower activation timer it'd cause Survivors to get a speedboost with little risk.
Pig also needs its stealth buffed.
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I think the problem with a quick switch is Clown still has the bottle swap bug IIRC, where if you arc a yellow and swap back to purple, it will convert the bottle mid-flight and that is super annoying. They probably also have a soft-cooldown to prevent unintended reswaps too fast from spamming the button.
I mean the thread asked for buffs to the bottom half of Killers, so that makes this list particularly interesting including Hag/Nurse/Artist/Twins being considered in the weaker half. To be fair though, I would be fine with Plaid Flannel basekit on Nurse, as then more people would easily win with her, and get her nerfed sooner.
Ghosty got buffs, but nothing for chase (which weaker Ghosty players misplay him as Chaseface or Campface instead, which works against soloq, but everything works against soloq). I'd essentially say if you have an M2 damaging/downing power you are in the top half by default (with an exception for Trickster), and that is an expansive list already. I'm personally perfectly happy with Ghosty how he is, and I'd even be fine if they reverted the 20s CD back up to 24s, as I spoke out against this helping skilled Ghostys far more then newbie Ghostys.
I most certainly am a Yellow bottle enjoyer myself, I just figure the dedicated Clown players can get used to a shorter timer, but newer/variety Clown players would benefit far greater from a shorter ready timer. I completely understand not wanting changes for people who don't even like the Killer however.
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I'd say it's debatable how necessary this would be, but I feel all of the stealth killers, (Myers, Ghostface and Pig) shouldn't be slower in stealth mode, that's to say, Tier 1 Evil, or Crouching.
It defeats the point of having a stealth power on an M1 killer. Mobility is always the bane of M1 killers, simply due to the time it takes to both cross the map and catch up in chase. In order to use your stealth power, you need to move slower, which hinders you. If you try to traverse fast enough without your stealth power, survivors hear you coming, then you activate stealth and your TR disappears instantly so they're know you're there. It's lose-lose. Wraith is the only one that gets this right.
So I'd say: Tier 1 Evil should be 4.4ms, the no lunge distance is penalty enough. Ghostface and Pig should be much faster while crouched, maybe 4.4m/s, if not then 4.2m/s minimum, the lower and therefore reduced PoV is the penalty in this instance.
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I can understand this stealth speed desire for matches where everyone has solid hours in the game. The problem being is I think this would annihilate newer players, and make them far too paralyzed in fear to even touch gens more than they already are.
T1 Myers being 4.4 sounds fine by me though, or at the bare minimum raise him to 4.3.
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