Hook balance needed

Gottlos

I believe the hooks need to be tweaked back a bit. As they are now, there is pretty much no point in which you can wiggle free even with a coordinated swf that attempts to take hits and sabotage. The fact that the killer can pick me up with a good hook to their back and walk to a sabo/spent hook and then still be able to walk past it to a third hook and hit a survivor on the way.. and I still can't wiggle out, is broken.

This nulls out perks for both survivors and killers. **
**Survivors:

• Saboteur is pointless unless you have a 4 man that is going full sabo build(breakdown probably also necessary)
• Boil Over makes no difference when a hook is available by the time the gauge fills up halfway

Killers:

• Agitations speed boost doesn't matter if you are never in danger of not getting to the hook, only makes a small difference in time spent doing an action
• Iron Grasp for the same as agitation
• Hangmans is a waste of a slot because survivors generally aren't sabotaging hooks

My main issue with all of this is, a core gameplay mechanic nulls out at least 5 perks. I understand that wiggling free should be rare but unless the killer is very new and clueless there is no way to wiggle free. I understand that items and perks can nullify or weaken mechanics or other perks but this is a core gameplay element that cancels perks.

I suggest simply reducing the number of hooks per match by just a few and also slightly increase the distance between hooks. I know before it was too easy to sabo hooks and made escaping too easy, especially with a coordinated team, but this has gone too far in the opposite direction. A fair distance imo would be the distance of ~1.5 hooks. Assuming that no perks are being taken into effect this would mean, if the killer starts at hook A (but doesn't see it) walks to hook B and it is sabotaged/spent they will not make it back to A or make it to C, unless the survivor didn't start wiggling in time.

Last thing, survivors should get BP for wiggling(entity likes hope after all) and the killer should get BP for carry distance(not time) as that is also giving the survivor hope of escape. This would motivate killers to want to use their respective perks and survivors would be more motivated to use some non-meta perks since their is a chance of escape and BP on the line.

danielletheunusual

Agree!

DemonDaddy

Hooks seem pretty well spaced and proper Sabo on them takes commitment both in loadout & ingame. Getting off the shoulder is about coordination and timing. Most chases end with at least one gen close to done, the wiggle phase is a "narrow" window to have teammates attempt a save, not (although rarely) save yourself. To pressure a killer during that time is a team effort and reliant on your performance prior to being downed. Avoid looping near hooks and plan your down for open areas where teammates can have the best opportunity to interfere. 

Gottlos

@DemonDaddy said:
Hooks seem pretty well spaced and proper Sabo on them takes commitment both in loadout & ingame. Getting off the shoulder is about coordination and timing. Most chases end with at least one gen close to done, the wiggle phase is a "narrow" window to have teammates attempt a save, not (although rarely) save yourself. To pressure a killer during that time is a team effort and reliant on your performance prior to being downed. Avoid looping near hooks and plan your down for open areas where teammates can have the best opportunity to interfere. 

I agree with having the narrow window for escape but when all of your allies can take a hit and there literally isn't a distance the killer can be from a hook that will allow you to wiggle out, that is broken. The escape has to be possible at all and then slightly easier (or harder for killer) with perks. If the killer can travel the distance of three hooks and hit a survivor and still not be enough time, that isn't a narrow window, that needs fixed.

Unnamed_1

A little rant to begin: "escape has to be possible". You want what mate? That your entitled survivor ass gets even more of a chance to escape because you deserve it? Because for the killer getting someone on the hook should be special, hard and well deserved? Since he only has to hook everyone 3 times? And the games are done after maximal 8 minutes?
Sorry. No offense really but from my perspective this is what it looks like reading your post.

Getting more back to being professional: Hook are getting f***ed over and over since the only "buff" of hooks , repairing themselfes (after 3 minutes or so).
Let's give examples: you can unhook from every angle since 1.8 -> good because it prevents bodyblocking the hook but also bad because it shortens the distance needed for a unhook. In a game about timepressure seconds are priceless.
Since 2.2 you are invincible getting unhooked as long as you can't control your character -> kinda bad because it let's people getting farmed get away if you are not careful but let's not open that can of worms about going for the weak (known as tunneling) and just say it can be seen as a nerf.
And the spawnrate of the hooks was adjusted already a few patches ago where they have to be 20 meters away from each other (exception if the map minimum of hooks is not reached).

To have a bigger chance of avoiding a hook: map/hook awareness.
-don't do unsafe loops near hooks
-if there is no escape run into the corners of the map
-remember hook spots and avoid areas from that you know have many hooks
Include those thoughts into you routing.

And considering these perks being useless: they are not. Others are simply overwhelmingly strong without requiring skill.
Sabotage: Hook awareness. You have to prep the hooks and also be aware if others are nearby that the killer can go to. It requires a lot of prep time, yes but often (at least from my experience) the first hook sabo is enought since the wiggle meter should be on 30% by now (if he did not die infront of the hook) and at least 20% of the people Im versing have decisive strike.
Boil over is pretty weak since it only let's the killer tumble a bit more and does not fill the wiggle bar faster.
Some survivor perks are strong without having to think about it so they just outclass other perks.

Agitations main strength is not really covering more ground(it is neat though) but the main reason I sometimes run it is just being able to outrun survivors so the chance of getting bodyblocked is reduced, hook nearby or not.
Brutal strength: yeah, good luck. The whole premise of this perk is not getting out and it also helps with thos DS users i mentioned but I personally don't run it because those who are not using DS have very little chance of getting out of it. But from you point of view: useless since there is no chance to escape in the first place, right?

Hangmans is nifty because it also repairs spend hooks that would not normally repair themselfes so it is a great perk for beginners or people who struggle with hooking since with this perk there will always be a hook available.

In conclusion: you are not supposed to escape many grasps it is hard and should be. The whole killer gameplay depends on being able to carry the prey to the hook. If a good swf could secure every or nearly all grasp rescues do you really think many would still play killer, knowing they have no chance of winning?

GodDamn_Angela

No.

Master

I ask you one question.

Do you like bleeding out on the floor, being unable to participate in "normal gameplay"?
Because thats what happened during the sabo meta back in the days.

If you like that kind of gameplay, then im cool, I have no problem to slugg survivors

Tsulan

Hey, I agree that iron grip, agitation, hangman's, saboteur and boil over all need a buff.

But I don't think that going back to slug meta would be nice.

Mister_xD

the hooks have just been reworked, causing many of them to disappear.

right now, there is a dead area around each hook, with the size of 24 meters, where no other hook can spawn.
this rule CAN be overwritten though, when the game realyzes a too low number of hooks for a map, forcing the minimum number in, no matter what.

also, no. escape should not always be possible. you've had your chance, you screwed up, now you get hooked. thats how it goes.
giving the survivors yet another second chance would completely break the high ranks.