Im just giving up immediately against Blight from now on...
Fix his stupid addons already, im sick and tired of it.
Comments
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Instead of just giving up, how about trying to learn something from your matches against blight?
Learn some skills and counterplay against him.
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He's not that bad once you realize he's just a pinball. It's the killers that hit you mid-animation, during vaults when you can't do anything about it that's frustrating.
Xenos tail. Pyramid head with range add ons. Etc that are the real frustrating culprit.
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Ah yeah, definitely felt i could do anything against his insta pallet break addon that DOES NOT drain his power at all and applies hindered to me to make it more fun....
Lets not forget Alchemist Ring as well.
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A lot of those window hits are, shall I say, generous.
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To even remotely stand a chance in solo q against a blight, all 4 survivors have to be able to execute said “counterplay” (which there basically is none other than hoping the blight isn’t that good). If the blight is half way decent, you will get slaughtered 98% of the time. I don’t blame them for giving up.
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I promise you there is more than “hoping he’s not good.” Learn the counterplay. It’s there.
Less time spent giving up because you don’t like a killer that you can’t loop like a regular m1 killer… is more time spent becoming a more skilled survivor.
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Shows us this amazing gameplay then, you against a good Blight using his strongest addons.
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Exactly. And they should show them doing it in solo q with at least 3 people escaping.
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If Blight is a rare killer in my region (SEA), then I will do that too, but unfortunately, there are so many Blight players here.
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iri addons/or double speed / adre vials and many more ....yeah dude just get good and counter a killer with ability to slide on command on walls at 400% speed while also applying the hindered status effect upon bumping into something for free ; or enjoy getting instadown for just a guy smashing their head into a wall before going for the hit.
fair and balanced gameplay😱
not saying you should give up , but i have 0 respect for those type of blights , so i will play the most boring way against them.
dear god i miss when blight players used to go for insanely precise pinball angles to get their hits , but this days is just HUG TECH , BROKEN ADDON COMBINATIONS AND HARD TUNNELING WITH THOSE.
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You miss when blight’s went for “insane precise angles to get hits”.. this is bump logic, and bump logic is objectively stronger than hug teching. Not sure what your point it there.
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Dude, blights are the most fun I've had in a while. I don't see them often but they're good, it's a really refreshing power to go against and feels fun trying to out play them. I do still agree the addons need a pass, especially alc ring. Double speed is still fun though
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You know, instead of just saying "get gud, learn counterplay," you can at least give some tips? That might be more helpful.
If you know the counterplay is there, then by all means, please share it.
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I have. MULTIPLE times in MULTIPLE threads. I have typed out long explanations in great detail. These gamers don’t want to hear it.
Their response is typically “bUt tHe hUgTeCh!!” Or “tHeRe iS nO coUntErPlaY” even though I JUST told them some key counters.
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Blight routinely slaps comp-level Survivors. Is it also a skill issue for them?
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there are some where it's a gg tho, can't lie
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Don't give up immediately. If the Blight you are facing is on your skill level he can fun to play against.
If not just bail. I do the same. I won't waste time because bhvr can't sort decent matchmaking.
Blight, Nurse, skull merchant and Knight are on my shortlist for giving up. Wesker if his ping is bad which is usually the case.
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Blight routinely gets slapped by comp-level survivors as well. What is your point? If you wanna bring comp into this, then by comp standards, survivors should be nerfed into the ground.
Let’s not use comp to argue balance for the masses. It makes no sense.
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Your second line sums up why the first line is rarely the case. Have you ever heard of a blight called ArrayGamer? He's second in the world in blight rushes. I have been matched with this guy in solo queue on at least three separate occasions that I can remember. My win rate in solo queue can't be much higher than the average 39% escape rate that Behavior posted awhile back. Yet the game still feeds me killers like this. In solo queue you simply don't have a chance against a remotely competent blight player since the efficiency just isn't going to be there from your teammates. Very rarely do I run into a terrible Blight player. They're always players with thousands of hours and the standard sweaty blight build. I would have no issues with Blight if the game had strict matchmaking and these guys only got matched with the sweatiest SWFs around. I'm just sick of going against 5000 hour Blights in my solo queue games.
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look closely at the glass shards and you can tell when she's about to phase. oh, sorry. that was for another well-designed and properly counterable power.
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So when a player loses to Blight, it's a skill issue and they need to git gud.
But when a player actually gets gud, suddenly their skill level is high enough that their Blight matches are irrelevant to the conversation?
How convenient that no matter what players do, there's always a reason for why Blight can't possibly be the problem.
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I don't think that's what's being said.
Per their back and forth, Blight both slaps and gets slapped in comp, so by that example they would be balanced I suppose.
However we really shouldn't be bringing comp into the equation when talking about general game balance. Yeah sure you're not going to become a comp survivor (most likely at least) but you're also not facing comp Blights.
You just need to get better against an average Blight, not a comp one, which is a big difference. Especially with a character who has an above average to high skill curve. They get exponentially worse the closer to average you get. Such as Nurse's notoriously low kill rate despite her potential strength.
If we did go off comp, we'd need massive nerfs to survivors, especially considering the normal game isn't restricting survivor perks like comp does.
That being said, the majority sentiment seems to be that Blight's add-ons can be/are dumb, but the basekit is probably fine.
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Blight gets slapped in comp when he's nerfed heavily by the rules- not allowed to bring any of his strongest addons or perks. One of the most intricate things about competitive DbD is often the ban list, specifically trying to create a balanced matchup for killers like Blight.
The problem with your logic is that it's a double bind- no matter what the Survivors do, Blight is never the problem. If Survivors don't get good, it's a skill issue so their opinions don't matter. If Survivors do get good, their experiences aren't representative of the playerbase at large so their opinions also don't matter.
By your logic, there is no scenario where a Survivor who complains about Blight has a valid opinion worth listening to. And why should anyone listen to you if you're just making up rules so that nobody who disagrees with you can have a valid opinion?
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Funny how the same was said about Spirit back in the day.
I know there is counterplay against Blight, but some of his addons are too strong and should have been nerfed ages ago.
Example: why is blight allowed to get 7 rushes with an addon that also increases recharge? It would be the same as giving Nurse one of her old +1/+2 blink(s) addons back while removing her cooldown.
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I probably doing something wrong but in my experience , some blights can turn mid charge and still hit survivors who dodge and run aside. Same goes for the nurse. I can run aside or dodge fast. But that seems to be impossible with both those killers cause they adjust mid charge.......
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The survivors are also heavily nerfed, its not like its just Blight.
Regardless, get better =/= get to comp level. Those are 2 different bars. That's like saying "get some exercise" means "become a professional athlete".
I think you're confusing "get better at the counterplay" and "get to comp level". You don't need to be comp level to compete with the Blights you're facing in pubs. Comp is too far, but you can still be "good" and at that level he's manageable outside of certain add-ons.
If you're matching against good killers who are good Blight you also need to be good at survivor and good at facing Blight to compete. That's not unreasonable. If you're not good at one or the other than IMO the correct advice would be to get better before complaining. Well, if you actually want to be taken seriously at least.
Good survivors who complain about it do have a valid agreed upon opinion: "some of the add-ons are too much" like I said before. It's not a bind at all otherwise the mentioned survivor criticism would have not been brought up and agreed with. I'm not sure where you got "he's not a problem" from when it was stated "his add-ons can be/are dumb". That's a problem right there.
If you want to talk about average survivors you need to use average killers, where Blight doesn't seem to be on the too strong side as far as common sentiment goes. Average skill isn't enough for him to become a big problem. Seems to be a middle to upper middle of the pact killer or so.
If you want to talk about good blights you need to talk about good survivors, where he's agreed on being fine outside of select add-ons.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
Perhaps you could introduce me to these "average Survivors" you keep talking about? Last I checked, the consensus is that Blight is S-tier, disgustingly powerful, and consistently makes mincemeat of Survivors at every skill level. And that's been my experience as well; when I go up against Blight, I have no illusions that I, or anyone else, is likely to make it out alive. He interrupts Survivors and gets downs quickly and easily, far too quickly for the average Survivor team to keep up with.
And functionally, "Some of the addons are too much" is perfectly in line with that, because those addons are common and pervasive in pub games, for obvious reasons.
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Last I checked all those tier list are considering players who are actually good at the game on both sides hence why killers like Pinhead and Sadako are low-mid tiers despite us knowing that against the average survivor they stomp really hard and Nurse in S despite being weak in the average players hands.
General consensus afaik is average Blight is mid-decent, but good blights are very strong. Hence why he's considered a killer whose pretty hard to play, again, similar to Nurse. If the average player was strong with him that wouldn't be the case. In both cases add-ons shoot Blight overboard.
A tier list for the average level of play would look very different.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
I am not even going to bother to read through the messages. Fact is, Blight’s addons are way overtuned and outclass every killer in the game. His addons are in despirate need of a nerf and this hasn’t changed since release. It blows my mind that the developers simply ignore this, even though 90% of the player base agrees.
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No, the tier lists I've seen were for standard gameplay, simply assuming the Killer has mastered the fundamentals of playing their character.
And what makes Blight particularly nasty is that unlike Killers such as Sadako and Pinhead, he doesn't simply fall apart against Survivor teams who have learned what counterplay he has and know what they're doing.
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Other than the pallet break addon is bugged and half the time it actually benefits the survivors with a double cooldown instead (4s)
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You just described being a good player lol. Idk how you can argue having to master the killer isn't being good at the killer.
Its not just about the killer either, it's also with the framework that the survivors know what they're doing and also mastered the fundamentals of playing against the killer. Which most don't.
I'm not sure if by "standard" you mean "average", but the average player is not good at the game. If you want to balance around the average, then I'm not going to say you're wrong, but that would mean we need to buff Nurse and nerf Sadako.
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I said "master the fundamentals", not "reach the skill cap". Unless you think we should balance around baby Nurses who need 20 blinks to land a hit?
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and I said "good at the game" not "reach the skill cap".
Idk what you want. You don't want to balance around average players, since by that stance Nurse need buffs and Blight is just mid. But you also think asking survivors to get good is too much.
It just sound like you want to balance around good killers but average survivors, which is a double standard.
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Can you share a clip perhaps we can help you
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"Nurse needs buffs and Blight is mid against average players" is a hot take if I've ever seen one. Because I don't see any evidence for it. Both are in the top 10 killrates on NightLight, and are consistently rated as S-tier on pro players' tier lists even for standard play.
Their killrates are also likely to be deflated in BHVR's September 2022 stats, since disconnects didn't count as a kill.
As soon as you've learned the basics of playing them, there's not much that can beat you with any level of consistency.
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You're leaving out the part that an average killer is also behind the wheel, which drastically reduces their performance.
Pro players and content creators aren't tier listing for "standard play" they're listing for games with at least decent-good players. As far as I've seen at least.
Nightlight also has Skull Merchant, Sadako, Freddy, Plague, and Wraith above both of them. Pinhead is still over Nurse and Trapper is right under her. Huntress is also almost the worst killer in the game and Trapper is almost Nurse strong on there apparently. So If you want to use that we should be nerfing killers like Freddy, who most people put in bottom tier, and Wraith. We really shouldn't be using massively generalized unnuanced data for balancing. Much less self reporting ones like Nightlight.
Getting to a level where you can roll the majority of teams is too much for the majority of the player base. I really think you're underestimating just how low skill level the "average" game/gamer is.
Also "top 10" with the current roster is about 1/3rd of the killers. Not saying much with that.
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"Pub stomper" characters have the highest killrates on Nightlight, true. But generally speaking, strong Killers stay strong and weak Killers stay weak regardless of the overall skill level. Especially a Killer like Blight who can always fall back on M1 gameplay.
You keep claiming that the "average" game is so low skill that Blight and Nurse go from S-tier to mid-tier to downright weak. Why don't you back it up with a source? You've dismissed tier lists, you've dismissed NightLight, so unless you've got something else, all that leaves is your word against mine. And to no one's surprise (Hopefully), I don't find that very convincing.
Besides, there's still one glaring issue with your whole argument of "get good"... what is a Survivor supposed to do when they actually do get good and hit the MMR softcap? If anything, hitting the MMR cap will make them run into Nurse/Blight and lose to them even more. By your own admission, Nurse and Blight get stronger the higher the overall skill level is in a match.
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What source do you realistically want? The only "source" I can really give is the data the devs released where Nurse was at the bottom of the kill rate and Blight was mid for the overall game. Nurse is always at the bottom of the kill rates whenever they release data for the average player or overall game.
If you have a reliable source that says that most of the player of the game are good at it I would love to see it as well.
Besides that all I can only give you is the common sentiment I've been hearing for the past 5 years since I've started playing: Nurse is bad unless you put in a lot of practice with her, an average player won't cut it. Blights been out for less time but I've heard pretty much the same for him: Blight is pretty ok baseline, but you need to put in a lot of practice to make him strong.
Sure you can fall back on M1 gameplay, but M1 gameplay is garbage against any decent survivors. Which is also common knowledge. Mostly because of map/loop design.
As for tier list, I'm just stating that they are not for the group you're trying to use them for. They're still valid, just not for the majority of the playerbase. Otherwise Nurse would have been nerfed way down and Trapper + Myers would have been significantly buffed. The balance changes we get/got would be completely different if those tier list were accurate for the average player. Those list are made for good-great players, which is not the majority as far as I have seen and can tell.
Again, if you have a reliable source that says that most of the player of the game are good at it I would love to see it.
As I see it, if the reliable source data we do have is saying that killers like Sadako, Dredge, Freddy, Pig, and Pinhead are stomping, and we know that those killers are only good against subpar players, meanwhile Killers that are much stronger but require skill are performing worse, then it makes more sense that its because most players are subpar.
If the tier list being made for good players by good players are not reflecting the actual majority game results, then it makes more sense it's because most players are subpar.
If the vast majority of random teammates are really bad then it makes more sense that it's because the majority of players are subpar.
I just don't see any evidence for that not being the case.
As for the last argument, as stated before once you get better, Blights basekit is fine and certain add-ons are fine. He's still good but not ridiculous. But there's certain other add-ons that take him over the top that should be toned down. Outside of that you can counterplay him; him running those add-ons is not a given every game.
Furthermore again, you have to pick who you're balancing for. If you want to balance for good players then ~85-90% of the killer roster needs buffs and we can nerf Nurse and nerf Blights add-ons. If it's for the average player then Nurse is the worst killer in the game and we should be nerfing Sadako, Pig, Pinhead, and ect. and Blights just Mid. If his add-ons are a problem even in the average range then yeah nerf them too.
Which if that's what you want to do then fine, just keep it consistent. Not "balance killer for the good players, balance survivor for the bad-average ones".
If you want to disagree with the majority opinion, at least as far as I have seen it, you can do that as well. There's things I know I disagree with that the majority believes as well. Maybe not in this case, but in others.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
The majority opinion on Nurse and Blight is that they're top-tier; every time I've seen a polling-based tier list, they sit firmly at the top, and the consensus is that that's unlikely to ever change until they receive nerfs. The consensus on Nurse is that she's likely to lose several games at least when you're starting out with her, but is actually quite easy and forgiving once you've learned the basics of how to blink where you want to blink. Blight is rated as having mechanics that feel slightly more "fair", but regardless, his power is disgusting and can easily beat Survivors of any skill level.
The most recent BHVR stats are over a year old, and didn't count DCs as kills, so the true killrate for killers like Nurse and Blight is likely much higher than it appears on that stats page.
So, let me get this straight: Blight is "fine" at average skill level, and players who have a problem with him just need to get good, but players who actually do get good at the game are now playing at a skill level where their opinions are no longer relevant to balance? Again, that's called a double bind. No matter what a Survivor does, if they have a problem with Blight, there's always a reason for why you don't have to listen to them. The way you resolve a double bind is simple: Pick one argument and stick with it. Should Survivors get good if they have a problem with Blight, or shouldn't they?
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That's the majority opinion for her power with good players, not for the average skill level. Like I've said multiple times. People generally don't talk about tier list for players who aren't good at the game or the average persons level. If they do they usually make it a point to say its for low level games or w.e. That's why if anyone says "Wraith is OP, Freddy is OP, Pinhead is OP, Dredge is OP" the responses are usually "no they're not" despite them actually being dummy strong against the average player and they're not S tier in tier list. They're usually not even A tier. Average and low skill level games are not the skill level people generally decide how strong a character preforms.
Also idk where you're hearing the common sentiment is that Nurse is easy and forgiving to play and learn, they're regarded as one of if not the hardest killer in the game by so much and so many I'm tired of hearing about it. The other killers usually fighting for that spot are Blight, Artist, and Billy afaik. Basically saying "once you get really good at the hard thing it's not that hard anymore" doesn't change that and can apply to pretty much anything. Yeah nothing is hard once you get good at it, but getting good at it is what makes it hard.
If Nurse was easy we'd be seeing her everywhere not just in high MMR. Like when Spirit was busted she was everywhere because she was easy af to play. Same with Freddy when he was busted.
As I hear it, Blight is also in a similar situation where he mainly exist in High MMR. Personally I haven't seen Nurse or Blight in over a month, and I know I'm not in top MMR. Above average maybe, but not top. So that lines up with my experience. For the record when I do see Blights, they're usually not that hard to counterplay for me personally (my team is another story). I doubt I'm a god gamer against Blight despite not being in top MMR or facing him much, its much more likely that the average Blight is just mid and the average player (such as my teammates) are just subpar. As I've been saying.
I already explained that good =/= comp level. Those are 2 different bars. The comp level games are the ones that are unreasonable levels where at that point its not worth really considering. Just getting "good" is not unreasonable at all. Might not be the average but its not hard to achieve if you actually try.
I have been sticking to my argument you just aren't understanding or refusing to listen, intentionally or not.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
Okay, getting "good" is not unreasonable at all. Sure, I suppose so.
Just one small problem: Getting good doesn't solve a thing if your problem is with Blight. In the short term, it might win you a couple games, but in the long term, it'll make your problem worse, because you'll be running into better Blights, and there'll be more of them.
With that in mind, if you really can't stand Blight, ultimately the only winning move is not to play. Disconnect or give up at the first sight of him; it'll even lower your MMR so you'll run into him less in the future. Which is one of many reasons we generally base tier lists around the MMR softcap.
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Yes and no. I'd rather take "I can play against this killer as long as they don't bring busted add-ons" over "I can't play against this killer at all". Especially when we know he has add-on changes planned.
Also like I said, the Blights where I'm at are just mid and pretty manageable. You should only really be struggling a ton against the average Blight if you're on the worse side.
Getting better against Blight isn't going to shoot you into high MMR, that's just as you said "a couple games". You can definitely get better against him without raising your general MMR much. Unless I'm an anomaly for some reason.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
Again, what's supposed to follow is that getting better will help you in some way, and it doesn't. Blight scales extremely well with player skill by your own admission, so any tricks you learn to beat him with are quickly tempered by Blights who've learned how to beat you in chase anyway.
Your own extremely specific experience with Blight is not the norm, and expecting everyone to match your exact skill level, never getting better, is quite unreasonable.
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I'm sorry, but what do you want then?
As the survivors get better the killers dont?
Good survivors already roll the vast majority of the killer roster. Do you want it to be the whole thing?
Yes Blight gets better as skill increases, so the other side should have to also play better to compete. He gets stronger as survivors get stronger. Outside of add-ons he does not reach a level where skilled survivors can't resonably win.
This just sounds like its circling back to "Why cant mid survivors beat a good blight". Which they shouldn't, since he's playing better.
Do you just want them deleted?
Post edited by MrPenguin on2 -
According to BHVR's stats, Blight's killrate goes up in high MMR, not down. From 57% to 61%.
If you want to lose less often against Blight, the optimal move is to NOT get good.
You're simply not rewarded for playing well against Blight. Your reward is to face him and lose to him more often, not less.
Nurse and Blight are the Meta Knights of DbD; sure, you can beat an "average" Meta Knight who hasn't really learned to use the character to the fullest, but only to a point. The characters are consistently at the top of the tier list because after a point, you simply CAN'T outskill them anymore. The "git gud" argument falls apart almost immediately with a character that thrives specifically in an environment where people have gotten gud.
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Dude I wouldn’t even continue the conversation. You have made excellent points and counter arguments that they continue to ignore and flip. Some people aren’t worth debating with on here.
They will refuse to listen to anything that doesn’t agree with their opinion.
But I applaud you for your comments. You made some very good points here, even though you were met with fallacy filled responses.
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Have you considered that your arguments are simply not correct? A bad argument can't convince you on its own merits, no matter how many times you repeat it.
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I mean yeah it makes sense that the character that scales with how good the player is, gets better as the players do. Going off of the fact that "balanced" in this game is a 60% kill rate (according to the devs), according to those stats he was just fine.
"You're not rewarded because you start to face better players" is true for every killer and the game in general. It's true for killer players as well, including Blight. They get better and get stronger survivors in their games. But facing better players because you got better is not a punishment, it's balancing. That's literally what MMR is supposed to be doing. Your "reward" is moving up in the skill brackets and over more players.
I guess if you just don't want to be better/good at the game then you shouldn't but if you don't want to get good at the game you shouldn't complain when better players beat you.
You're choosing to stay not good enough to ever compete vs trying to be able to compete because you got better. When people want advice they're usually looking to improve to the point they can get over the problem if possible, not drop their skill bracket down to where the problem doesn't exist. Although I suppose technically that is a solution.
Blight doesn't get to a point where he's consistently defeating survivors better than him. He starts mid/weak, slowly gets better as they climb, and at the top he's on even ground with the other good survivors. Again, select add-on disclaimer (SAOD). So if they're beating you and they don't have busted add-ons, then they just played better.
No you can't "outskill" him to the point you'll win most of your games like most killers, but you shouldn't be able to. The killer can be good at the game as well and that should also matter. It should come down to who plays better in that match, which is exactly where he is (SAOD).
It feels like you just want a "solution" for Blight where you do X and will win most your games regardless of the Blights skill/effort. But where does that leave the person playing the killer? Most of the roster is already like that and we should be working to reduce the number not increase it.
Which if that's what you're advocating for, intentional or not, we're going to have to agree to disagree.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
I appreciate the sentiment and thank you for the compliment, I really appreciate it.
Honestly I feel similarly. I'm sure they also have similar feelings just flipped unto me. Warranted or not.
I'm trying to push it in the direction of a conclusion if I can while also at least giving their points a proper response. But I also tend to go into a lot of detail when I reply so "wrapping things up" is really not my strong suit.
But I don't see much more to discuss so one way or another it should be over soon.
Post edited by MrPenguin on2
