https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472588/future-of-dead-by-daylight-forums
Skull Merchant needs more bandages, BHVR...
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Can you notice this? Glowing red survivor?
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Yeah I can. Now try to see that when the SM has undetectable and you have no idea where she is and you're desperately trying to hear where the footsteps are coming from. Or, you know, when you're actually in a chase.
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Why should I argue about it? I just thought it is funny to bring it as an argument and then say it's not worth doing it, it doesn't make any sense.
how I encounter Skull Merchants every other game whilst Clown games occur almost once in three weeks. Pick rates prove otherwise.
- Clown is old killer, nothing new about him
- Skull merchant just got reworked
- Skull merchant is women
- Skull merchant has better skins (in my opinion)
Based on nighlight (best thing we have) her pick rate is currently 2.54%, that is supposed to be a lot? Clown has 2.35%... So massive difference.
you agreed since you didn't argue about it.
That is assuming.
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You say you want something in middle of your screen while you already have something in middle of your screen....
That glowing is visble quite a lot, it's not hard to notice it with peripheral vision.
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It is hard to see on bright maps.
I do want the meter in the bottom middle, better to see enlargened circles/shapes and remain focused on chase.
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Alright lets use Nightlight. Her kill-rate is at 67.29%, way ahead of the optimum 60% BHVR set. Clown has a 49.80% kill-rate. Way below the optimum 60%. How can Clown be better than Skull Merchant?
I did assume because I like to play other people's games.
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I mean, that doesn't affect Skull merchant, so I couldn't care less, but I would expect most survivors to hate it.
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How come? It's only more information they can use to plan accordingly and won't interfere with the game. Unless they like to inspect the grass whilst looping.
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You would be suprised how much your kill rates increase when survivors keep giving up. Which is mostly still because of her old version. That's not something you can fix.
Clown has better chase than merchant, which is what you mainly complain about...
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I wouldn't like pointless things on my screen, which I don't need.
They could make it an accessibility feature tho...
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That's entirely subjective though. I looped one recently for five gens. Never done that with a Skull Merchant.
Survivors give up because they realize the rework didn't fix much apart from the Chess Merchant situation. Sure, the past haunts her, but survivors don't just give up because it WAS bad. It's because every game is the exact same.
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Okay, you do you. It's literally like having the HUD feature at the bottom of the screen. It's not that deep. Could even be semi-transparent.
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It's because every game is the exact same.
How so?
Different maps affect her, it's very different to play against Merchant indoor / outdoor.
Builds are different, she has different playstyles.
Players use drones in different ways.
If you try to say she just walks into a loop and use her power, we get back it "same as most other killers"...
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You are not able to notice your survivor model in chase.
You are not able to look at HUD, which has also other valuable information btw.
but you think semi-transparent block under your survivor would help it?
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How do maps affect her playstyle? Drones just become less effective for indoor maps. Builds are mostly the same. There is very little variation because there doesn't have to be any. She's strong in each category. How do they use drones differently? Some forget to use them?
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What valuable information does it have? Please, inform me. That I'm getting chased...?
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- You can try to use them in advance on loops
- You can try to set them around gens
- You can just use them mainly for stealth
Builds again are different:
- hit & run
- stealth
- 3-gen
- chase
Maps affect effectivness of her stealth.
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We can both agree her three gen capability is bad now so that isn't even a playstyle to consider. Hit and run can intertwine with stealth and chase is just chase. Very limited builds.
Setting them around gens is useless due to the counterplay you provided (which I provided in the discussion) so it's definitely a way to play her, but far from effective. We are left with only two playstyles that are considered effective.
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We can both agree her three gen capability is bad now so that isn't even a playstyle to consider.
No, we can't. She is still able to hold 3-gen quite well. It's just not hour long 3-gen without winning version..
Very limited builds.
I mean, if you consider this limited, then we get back to "same as many other killers".
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What your teammates are doing is quite good to know. That's something I am quite happy about. I consider that great change that helped soloQ a lot, at least for my games...
If I see noone is working on gens, I am going to play more risky, because I don't want to waste resources.
If I see three survivors working on different gens, I will do my best to have as long as possible chase, doesn't matter how many pallets I use.
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She holds it just as well as an M1 killer can. That's not quite well. They would also have to dedicate the match protecting the three gen which would pretty easily lead to their downfall.
If there wasn't very limited builds or playstyles, why would people rate her as the most boring killer to face? Wesker has many playstyles and that's why its fun to face him albeit how much times you have him. Boredom doesn't happen because a killer was bad to face. They apparently still are.
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Yeah, it was a fantastic change. I don't base my chase around what teammates are doing though. I just make use of all the loops I can and loop efficiently. I couldn't care less what they are doing, as long as I get a long chase in, I'm happy. It's what solo queue matchmaking does to you.
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She holds it just as well as an M1 killer can. That's not quite well.
It's definetly way better than normal M1 killers.
You just setup drones in all loops around 3-gen and force survivors to work on gens injured, then sneak up with stealth.
Funny is I have never played Chess merchant before, but I did after her rework just to show survivors they are not saved from it :D
why would people rate her as the most boring killer to face?
Go ask them, I don't really mind playing against her...
I consider it hate of past issue...
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Well, I am used to expect my teammates know what they are doing... So I just act based on information I am given.
I do most of my challenges soloQ, or when survivors have 100% BP and don't really have an issue with it now. I don't expect to escape most of my games unlike when I play SWF, but it's still fun for me. As long I get decent chase, I am happy, if I help someone escape, even better.
You just have to play with different expectations, that's like playing Blight vs Pig for me.
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Perhaps its slightly better but its far from what it was, especially since solo queue is more aware of three genning.
I don't need to ask, you just told me you three genned survivors and used undetectable to brainlessly kill them. No skill in that.
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I wouldn't say it's worse overall. Issue is her old 3-gen wasn't really able to win properly.
Her current 3-gen is easier to break, but she also has better chance to win. So her current 3-gen is definetly more healthy for the game, it is similar to other killers with good 3-gens.
But it is definetly viable strategy, I often use it when I notice survivors with multiple toolboxes. It's funny challenge for me, they want to escape faster, so I play against it.
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Sure I guess but it doesn't take any skill, right?
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I mean, until now you didn't even think it is possible to do, but it doesn't take skill now?
If so, then you would have more players doing it, right?
Same for hit&run / stealth builds, you need to be good at guessing distance, so survivors won't prerun.
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Never said it wasn't possible. Just harder to do. It never ever took skill for Skull Merchant to three gen. More players don't do it because it's boring. Simple as that. They have a oppressive ability, so why not use it in chase? Old Skull Merchants couldn't be bothered with the learning curve and were stuck with three genning. They were fine with that because they loved annoying survivors.
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We can both agree her three gen capability is bad now so that isn't even a playstyle to consider.
Oh right, just not viable.
More players don't do it because it's boring.
Quite a lot of players played Chess merchant, because it was easier to do than Chase. So boring is clearly not an issue.
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Chess Merchant only happened because they enjoyed irritating survivors. That made it fun for them. Every single endgame chat they would stay and let the insults unfold. That was their source of entertainment. Even the actual Chess Merchant was really toxic.
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3-gen with any killer is going to trigger survivors.
I have simple logic behind this. When survivors use multiple toolboxes, for me means they want a boring game, so I give them boring game. Probably not kind they expected, but that's not my issue.
I usually prefer to play hit&run build, but that's mostly because I play Wraith a lot too. He can also have good 3-gen btw, they are kinda similar in my opinion...
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With Trapper, you can just fake the trap to force survivors into staying. First time you set the trap, you fake it. If they run away, you chase them. If they stay, you set the trap and they are stuck in a tile with a trap.
Nope. There's no counterplay in a loop against a good Artist. If you think there is, you just haven't played against a good one. Otz mained Artist for one of his 50 win streaks and said that Artist was a guaranteed down unless survivors could chain loops. There's a reason why she is considered to be one of the best killers.
As for Skull Merchant, you can chain loops against her, even if you are Hindered. Here is an example. I think what you're missing is that you need to drop a pallet fast against a Skull Merchant. It's very similar to playing against a Clown. Otz has been playing Skull Merchant for the past month attempting win streaks on her. I've been watching his streams and many survivors have taken him on long chases. She's definitely not a killer with 0 counter play.
Even after maining her for a month, Otz only thinks she is B tier. She can injure survivors fast but her chase is similar to Clown.
There are a few reasons why Skull Merchant has a high kill rate:
- She's a noob stomper. Killers that cause Hindered tend to be noob stompers
- She's extremely easy to play, much easier than Clown and Cenobite
- Survivors still dc against her frequently due to hating pre-rework Skull Merchant. Otz had so many survivors dc against him when he didn't even do anything.
- She's still new and survivors haven't learnt her counter play
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Trapper's fakes aren't as effective with good pathing. It is very easy to chain loops with Windows of Opportunity, hence why I run it. His fakes still make him stop moving for that brief second which allows you to act accordingly and determine the course of action. Let's say he did fool you. You just have to go around the loop until he gets a hit, you still buy your team a bit of time. It was just an effective mindgame from the Trapper, that also takes skill against high MMR players which won't fall for desperate attempts. You should never feel forced to stay at a loop unless you are in a dead zone or you have bad pathing, although they can go hand in hand.
Artist would be S tier if that was the case. If her chase power was so opressive, people would just run gen regression perks because that's all she needs. That doesn't seem to be the case. Even Otz didn't put her in that S tier. She also has a high skill ceiling so it's undeniably hard to master her truly and not just land lucky hits.
The example you gave me only had one good, and experienced, survivor playing against him. The Gabriel was really good and read Otz like a book whilst the Yui was only good in the first part. You do not get teammates like Gabriel in solo queue. Also, Otz should've landed those hits at the vaults so that was really detrimental for him and made the looping seem good. Yui only got chased for a while by pre-dropping safe pallets Otz was forced to break as well. Even for the more unsafe loops Otz didn't try mindgaming which was questionable. The Mikaela is a better representation of a solo queue player. That Gabriel was a survivor you see once in a blue moon in one of your games.
What seems to go over the heads of some people is that all Skull Merchant games go exactly as I described in the discussion. There's no fun involved, it's just the cycle of boredom that gets repetetive. Every Skull Merchant game is like I'm facing the exact same one I faced before. At least with Wesker that's not the case and I enoy facing him. That's also the reason people DC. They can tell how the game is going to go. It also doesn't help when most Skull Merchants play toxicly.
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There's no fun involved, it's just the cycle of boredom that gets repetetive.
Well, you think your fix of adding 1 token would fix this? It would be exactly same for survivors, just worse for Skull merchant.
Chase wouldn't change. Playstyle wouldn't change.
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It would allow survivors extra time to not get injured by a drone without Skull Merchants crying about such a insignificant nerf.
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Since when 33% is insignificant nerf?
Funny is it wouldn't change your issue at all.
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And there we go. You talked about how one token wouldn't do much and now it's an issue. I can't change the issue if people cry about small nerfs like that.
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Not really, I just find it funny you say something is an issue and your fix doesn't do anything about the issue.
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Well the only way to fix it is another rework, right? Or do you have any alternative that wouldn't make SM mains cry?
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No, I think your issue can be fixed only with rework.
So there is not really a reason for just a nerf, it won't help your issue, so there is no point in doing it.
Good luck suggesting another rework.
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