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Old Onryo was better?!
After a while I tried Onryo again and she is still very bad. I would say she is worse than before her rework.
Everytime all TVs are off and I have to walk to the survivors, before I would just tp, where I need to go. The tape rework made that all close TVs to people are off, so I can‘t tp there.
And now that most survivors understand to pick up a tape, the condemned buff is useless.
If behavior made that the TVs aren‘t turned off, it would be fine.
To buff her in a way, that people disable her main ability (passively), just to get rid of the condemned, isn‘t good.
She was so much more fun before!
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I hate new Onryo but not on a power level... In fact, I feel she is undeniably better now than before.
My problem is a lot of skill expression was lost in the killer.
Before, you had to corral survivors into TVs to get Condemned stacks or use your game sense to guess where survivors are... Now you just teleport as long as the cooldown is up. Additionally, now the condemn indicator can't be used as tracking.
A further thing, the cooldown takes managing TVs out of your hands. I suppose it does make it more punishing if you teleport to the wrong TV... But isn't losing an extra TV punishment enough?
Then they nerfed her Passive Phasing add-on which was a unique chase power... And I guess replaced it with the lackluster power to not get stunned while Demanifested.
Finally, on the survivor's side: taking a tape is now objectively the better choice. No longer is it a risk/reward scenario... It is just her counter. The cursed tape counters her curse... Not spreading her message through TVs, holding on to it.
I was nearly a full-blown Onryo main before the rework... But I can't bring myself to play her now outside of daily rituals.
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Actually I would say she I stronger than ever if you play for the condemned strat with right addon's and perks. If they were going for that I'd say they succeeded in making her stronger. For standard play though I agree she is worse than ever.
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With old Onryo, survivors could basically just ignore condemn and they would almost certainly get out way before anyone was close to being condemned. Now at least survivors are pretty much forced to interact with TVs which gives you ok slow down. If every single TV in the level is off, just remember that means survivors had to spend time running around not doing gens and you can still take advantage of that. Either way she's not a strong killer now and wasn't before.
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She is worse against coordinated teams but destroys soloq. Her current state is unhealthy for the game. Even worse is that she is just so much less fun to play now compared to before, for both sides.
Pre-rework it was a blast to use TVs as a strategic tool either mid-chase to catch survivors off guard or to surprise them at gens. Now with the rework we pretty much are forced to just mindlessly teleport to build condemn. TVs are pretty much never turned on in key areas now due to survivors always doing tape runs and you are pretty much forced to use the Iri-tape add-on to even stay competitive.
Pre-rework you could tryout a number of fun builds and playstlyes and still be successful with her. Now if you do anything but a full condemn build you are pretty much screwing yourself against any decent players. This is bad for Onryo and makes her a much less interesting killer.
In order to make her fun to play again they need to just undo the rework and focus on making her teleport play more fun, not nerfing it by giving it double cool-downs and having TVs be off all the time. Survivors hated getting focused down by condemn to be removed from the game so it baffles me why BHVR made the whole rework focused on it at the expense of the rest of her abilities.
In my opinion the Onryo rework is one of the worst changes they made to the game. It significantly makes her less fun and more boring to play. BHVR took a fast paced interesting killer who felt very rewarding to use when skilled with her, and turned they into a killer who is utterly boring to play and feels like easy wins most of the time unless its a swf game. Swf game are just frustrating now because I know that pre-rework I would have been able to be competitive by using her teleport mobility to keep up unlike now.
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The loss of skill expression really makes her boring to me. It used to be incredibly fun to play her even when I would lose matches. Now it feels boring to play her even when I win matches.
"Then they nerfed her Passive Phasing add-on which was a unique chase power... And I guess replaced it with the lackluster power to not get stunned while Demanifested."
This add-on change made no sense and further ruined the fun of engaging in chases with her.
Finally, on the survivor's side: taking a tape is now objectively the better choice. No longer is it a risk/reward scenario... It is just her counter. The cursed tape counters her curse... Not spreading her message through TVs, holding on to it.
I really disliked this change as well. It goes against the source material and feels odd. It also means that her mobility suffers greatly compared to pre-rework due to survivors always turning off TVs now without the condemn risk they used to have pre-rework. Pre-rework survivors were punished for interacting with cursed tapes and being near Onryo. Now they are rewarded for taking cursed tapes. It is a unfortunate aspect of the rework. Cursed tapes aren't even cursed anymore.
I was nearly a full-blown Onryo main before the rework... But I can't bring myself to play her now outside of daily rituals.
Same. I used to play her in like 80% of my killer games. Now it is maybe 5% because it just isn't enjoyable anymore. I don't care that she is stronger now in the average game, she just isn't fun to play due to the rework changes.
I really hope BHVR will just drop the rework or at least change some add-ons to make her function more like she used to for those of us how enjoyed her fluid teleportation gameplay.
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"Pre-rework you could tryout a number of fun builds and playstlyes and still be successful with her. Now if you do anything but a full condemn build you are pretty much screwing yourself against any decent players. This is bad for Onryo and makes her a much less interesting killer."
It's the opposite. The only build that was viable before was Condemn slugging. Now you can play Onyro normally if you want. Otz got a 40 win streak with Onyro without slugging and said it was very easy. Current Onyro is healthier and far more versatile.
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The whole thing, which made her fun for me is the teleportation, not the condemned part.
And what’s the catch in having the tape as counter to the condemned, when it also counters her teleport. It should only counter one aspect.
In my opinion the fast teleport made the character, what she was and now she has slower tp and no TVs available.
Also it‘s no good slow down if you don‘t use the iri addon. Then they just run two meters and they aren‘t condemned anymore.
The killer isn‘t good if you don’t want to play in any other way than spamming condemned, which isn‘t fun to play as and against.
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I‘m completely on your side.
I loved the killer like it was. For me her real ability were the TVs with fast teleport.
You could just switch targets immediately and find people easily without worrying about gens.
She also was my main before the rework.
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I don‘t understand why people aren‘t making their own opinion and just copy what a streamer said.
And if you think the condemned was bad, then for me the old version without condemned, would be far better and more fun than the version we have right now.
I don‘t understand, why behavior took the part that people complained about and made it the main way to play her!
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I'm sorry you feel that way but I was able to consistently win games with her without slugging at all or playing for condemn. If you were skilled enough with her you can take advantage of her great macro play and could use her TVs to have great map presence.
If you thought slugging was the only viable way to play her before, you probably only did it because it was the easier for you.
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@Skitten56, which parts of the new Onryo would like to stay if she gets her old version back.
I personally like that you are able to go threw survivors, when in her mode.
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The fact that countering her condemn shuts down her TV map presence is brutal against coordinated teams. This is what forces all Onryos to spam teleport or basically throw games. And if you are not using the Iri-tape add-on, she just has horrible slowdown and survivors can freely shutdown her power. She is more reliant on add-ons than she ever was before.
As you said, she just isn't good right now unless you spam teleport and tunnel people with tapes which is just boring. I really hate for the rework basically forces us to play her by mindlessly spamming teleport and punishes us for doing anything else. I had multiple viable builds for her pre-rework but now its basically condemn teleport spam.
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I would keep the change where she can't be pallet stunned while demanifested. It is a very weak change that doesn't add much but it is a nice complement thematically and does have niche uses.
I would keep the Ring Drawing add-on nerf to discourage slugging and encourage hookplay.
I would also keep the shorter TV cool-down times to make her less reliant on the old Iri-tape. Then probably nerf the old Iri-tape add-on and bake some of it into basekit.
I think she was a fine killer overall before reworks and just needed some small quality of life tweaks and changes. Not this rework which sucked all the fun out of playing her.
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What do you think about the undetectable change?
I would like to have a terror radius (small one like before) to use UW and scare people a bit. Most times they just ran into me, which made it easier. Now I‘m standing behind them and it takes too long to demanivast. They hear it and run.
For the addons, I have no idea, what they were.
Post edited by jonifire on0 -
I mained old and new Onyro and that's my opinion. I just posted Otz's stream since you're obviously not going to believe me without proof.
99% of the community thought that Condemn was the only only viable build on pre-rework Sadako, including Otz who attempted win streaks on both of them. Regardless, Otz already proved current Onyro can do well without slugging, tp spamming, and Iri tape. I suggest you practice her more if you think otherwise.
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Why did I never play against, that 99% before her rework then.
And say something without him as proof.
He could also win with the weakest killer in the game, he is just a very good player.
Current Onryo without tp spam hasn‘t really an ability, she can only see we’re the TVs are off and tp where nobody is.
What you said is just that every killer with no ability is good and just practice more to be better with no ability.
In my opinion her TVs were her real power in the past. You can tell me, what she can do without condemned spam now.
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Current Onryo can do well. But she is weaker, not weak, against coordinated teams than before. I assure you have have plenty of practice with her. Pre-rework I ran hook builds and used her teleport aggressively to in matches consistently win. If you had good game sense she was a serious threat due to her strong macro play. You didn't need to go down the route of force condemn slugging route unless you happened to go against comp level players. She had more playstyles than now that worked just fine for standard pub matches, not just a single viable build.
My biggest complain with current Onryo isn't that she is weak, it is that she is incredibly boring to play compared to old Onryo. And even if post-rework Onryo was stronger, I'd rather play a more fun and enjoyable weaker killer than the snooze-fest that is current Onryo by comparison. I play the game to have fun, not teleport spam every 10 seconds while managing survivor tapes like its a daycare. Her old playstyle of actually doing hit and run chases was much more fun than this. Not to mention having a cursed tape took actual interaction and skill from both sides with interesting counterplay compared to what we have now.
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What I don‘t understand. People claim that she is stronger without spamming condemned, but her tp speed and the available TVs are a lot worse than before.
The pallet immunity is nice, but not game changing and with the untetectable it’s the same.
Getting condemned after getting hit isn‘t really good if you don‘t play the condemned way too.
What am I misunderstanding, where is she better without condemned spamm?
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Not that I'm an expert, but from what I've seen, the Onryo was only strong with the iridescent video tape add on that turned back on your TVs you'd ported to if you knew timings on demanifistation hits.
You needed that add-on for your map presense and condemn stacking, as it was actually better for Survivors to let you teleport to the TV and disable it for 100s than it was to disable the TV themselves for 60s AND force them to build up condemned while carrying the tape. If the Onryo caught them with the tape and worked out the TV they needed, she could camp to force condemn upon them and kill them.
This means noone cared about your tapes, so your TVs were almost always available to you, which is pretty backwards if you ask me as a power.
The one thing that is a problem now is the fact Sadako can herp a derp teleport to build condemn to catch out newbie players, and otherwise struggles against high level players who know better. I made this suggestion upon her release that I still think would be a good change for her even now.
It'd being back her skill expression, reducing the effectiveness of her TP spam, and allow her to still exert condemn pressure on tape carriers. If she scores her hits and the predicts their attempts to secure a new tape, she can really start to punish players even at high levels with heavy condemn.
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Sorry that I don‘t understand everything, so I can‘t mention everything.
„the Onryo was only strong with the iridescent video tape add on that turned back on your TVs you'd ported to if you knew timings on demanifistation hits.“
I don‘t think you needed it, but it was really good.
„it was actually better for Survivors to let you teleport to the TV and disable it for 100s than it was to disable the TV themselves for 60s“
Maybe it should have been changed that the teleport disables is less long than the tape.
I don‘t think that the condemned should be her power. Instead the tp and the condemned as side effect. My main complain is that all TVs are off, where people are, so her real power is useless. I loved the fast tp speed before her rework, I would love 0 cooldown, but it wouldn‘t matter if it‘s 10s, so long as TVs are available.
Also my problem with her is, that now you don’t have the option how to play her. If you don‘t play condemned spam, she is useless.
Against people, who know how she works, she is basically a killer with no power, that knows where the TVs are off.
I like your idea with the tapes more than the current one, but the old one will stay my favorite.
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