Survivors hooked should have Madness 3 regress to 2
The Doctor is among my top 3 killers and I find very annoying the propentity to tunnel of most Doctor players. The reason they can keep up despite playing horribly is just one: survivors who just got unhooked are still in Madness 3 and are very easy to find.
I think if unhooked survivors had their Madness regressed to tier 2 good Doctors wouldn't be affected at all. I know I wouldn't. Also, it would maybe induce people to learn a bit more of the Doctor, who is not only the one "that makes people scream and easy to find".
Comments
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So, basically you want a garbage tier killer nerfed? Get lost with that.
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the nurses calling nerf hit doc hard enough.
stop hurting his feelings.
he just wants to be loved.0 -
@Acromio said:
So, basically you want a garbage tier killer nerfed? Get lost with that.Oh shut up. The Doctor is good in good hands, if you rely on survivors screams to tunnel them you're the one making him garbage tier.
@Mister_xD said:
the nurses calling nerf hit doc hard enough.Not actually. I didn't like devs move of nerfing snapping out of it when people wanted them to buff mending, but it didn't affect the Doctor much.
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The Doctor is just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius. If you think otherwise you're either a Rank 21 noob or very, very deluded.
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The thing is, whether you are in Madness 2 or 3, if you are getting tunnelled, it doesnt matter. You cant heal yourself or repair generators at tier 3, and you scream every few moments, but the tunneling killer will already know where you are anyway.
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@White_Owl said:
@Acromio said:
The Doctor is just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius. If you think otherwise you're either a Rank 21 noob or very, very deluded.I'm not the deluded one here. If this is all you have to bring to the discussion I'll just ignore you.
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@Mister_xDMister_xD said:the nurses calling nerf hit doc hard enough.
stop hurting his feelings.
he just wants to be loved.
I never used NC on the doctor because i always thought it was a wasted perk slot on him. I mean, he's really good at tracking survivors...0 -
@PigNRun said:
The thing is, whether you are in Madness 2 or 3, if you are getting tunnelled, it doesnt matter. You cant heal yourself or repair generators at tier 3, and you scream every few moments, but the tunneling killer will already know where you are anyway.It actually matters, because in madness 2 you don't scream randomly so you can juke and hide, while in madness 3 you just hope to have time to snap out of it before he comes back. That unless you scream revealing your position.
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@Vietfox said:
I never used NC on the doctor because i always thought it was a wasted perk slot on him. I mean, he's really good at tracking survivors...Too true. You don't put tracking perks on a guy who's inherently good at tracking Survivors. That'd be like putting a (hypothetical) perk that allows you to teleport on the Nurse.
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Doc is no Freddy but he isn't a strong killer, either. He should not be nerfed.
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@Orion said:
@Vietfox said:
I never used NC on the doctor because i always thought it was a wasted perk slot on him. I mean, he's really good at tracking survivors...Too true. You don't put tracking perks on a guy who's inherently good at tracking Survivors. That'd be like putting a (hypothetical) perk that allows you to teleport on the Nurse.
Dont you dare trashtalk Bamboozle on Nurse.
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I'd at least like the random screams to not happen when you're being healed.
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@Acromio said:
So, basically you want a garbage tier killer nerfed? Get lost with that.If you think Doctor is garbage tier then there's no helping you and only bad Doctors ran NC on him because it's a waster perk. Also why is this a nerf considering they're still in madness II and it's not like you can't just come back and reshock them.
I mean even Freddy's victim get woken up when he hooks them and the Doctor is made for tracking survivors provided of course you know how to play him.
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Sounds like an excuse not to snap out of it by skill alone. If you were just impaled by a hook, why should you refresh in a better state of health? It takes almost no time to snap out, do we really need all sense of effort removed?1
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I'm honestly a bit torn on this. I agree that is easy to tunnel those survivors in T3 madness, but it's ultimately up to the player. It's at least a bit similar to saying 'LF's power encourages camping'. It's not necessarily a problem with the power, but more of an issue with how someone chooses to use it.
That being said, I do agree in general that there could be better ways to deal with it, but I also can't deny that Doc would be much weaker than he is now without it. It would need some readjusting and balancing as opposed to a flat out removal. I personally use T3 unhooks as a way to keep an eye on them and watch where they go on the map while I chase others. I hate tunneling when is done to me and I won't do it to others.0 -
@powerbats said:
Doctorino op, plz nerf duud!1!!!!He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius. All he has is a mediocre tracking ability that can be replicated with perks (Whispers, Predator) and outclassed by certain addons (All-seeing, Amanda's letter). There's no need to remove the only way the Doctor has to keep a bit of pressure on the survivors.
But, of course, you're powerbats, so I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying and come up with a valid counter-argument. Too bad this forum doesn't have "hide this user's posts" option like Steam.2 -
@DemonDaddy said:
Sounds like an excuse not to snap out of it by skill alone. If you were just impaled by a hook, why should you refresh in a better state of health? It takes almost no time to snap out, do we really need all sense of effort removed?How about the sense of effort for the killer? Is it so hard to shock a couple times a survivor to bring him back to tier 3? If you want to tunnel them at least work for it.
@FoggyDownpour said:
I'm honestly a bit torn on this. I agree that is easy to tunnel those survivors in T3 madness, but it's ultimately up to the player. It's at least a bit similar to saying 'LF's power encourages camping'. It's not necessarily a problem with the power, but more of an issue with how someone chooses to use it.That being said, I do agree in general that there could be better ways to deal with it, but I also can't deny that Doc would be much weaker than he is now without it. It would need some readjusting and balancing as opposed to a flat out removal. I personally use T3 unhooks as a way to keep an eye on them and watch where they go on the map while I chase others. I hate tunneling when is done to me and I won't do it to others.
The Doctor would not be much weaker just because of this. I never relied on this mechanic and still do good with him at red ranks, it's just a matter of using all the tools at Doc's disposal (which are a lot) instead of just one. Damn, I still have to see someone else besides me using the shock attacks to deny loops or using anything that is not the Distressing+Unnerving Presence combo (which is just a noob trap), and then I have to read Acromio's bs about Doc being a m1 killer.
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His shock can stop loops only against Rank 21 scrubs who never played against him and keep camping pallets and windows like spastic otters instead of looping them. Your post supports what I've always said about the Doctor: he's a M1 scrubstomper. The counterplay to everything he can do with his shock is to just keep running.
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@White_Owl said:
The Doctor is among my top 3 killers and I find very annoying the propentity to tunnel of most Doctor players. The reason they can keep up despite playing horribly is just one: survivors who just got unhooked are still in Madness 3 and are very easy to find.
I think if unhooked survivors had their Madness regressed to tier 2 good Doctors wouldn't be affected at all. I know I wouldn't. Also, it would maybe induce people to learn a bit more of the Doctor, who is not only the one "that makes people scream and easy to find".Should freddy be nerfed too?
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they could make it to regress to tier 2 and not making it at tier 3 while youre on hook they should also make a possible way to go tier 1 but since ppl still defend him cuz hes weak (hes not).
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@Acromio said:
@powerbats said:
Doctorino op, plz nerf duud!1!!!!He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius. All he has is a mediocre tracking ability that can be replicated with perks (Whispers, Predator) and outclassed by certain addons (All-seeing, Amanda's letter). There's no need to remove the only way the Doctor has to keep a bit of pressure on the survivors.
But, of course, you're powerbats, so I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying and come up with a valid counter-argument. Too bad this forum doesn't have "hide this user's posts" option like Steam.
Ah yes the typical troll responses from someone that can't debate, when you can't counter LIE and distort. Since you can't counter debate, only use histrionics, distort, lie, deflect, and basically troll away we can safely dismiss your posts from now is what you're saying.
If you honestly think the only way a Doctor can track good survivors is with Tier III madness only then the issue is you're just not that good. I mean what happens when the survivors sasp SNAP OUT OF IT oh no what will good Doctor players do.
They'll use their brains to go find said survivors, look for illusions, shock away, check likely hiding spots, gen patrol etc. You know they'll actually play the way they're supposed to play not come to the forums and troll and make up ame excuses that only rank 20's would use.
Then we come to the typical I can't debate you properly so let me troll my way out of this by saying something nonsensical and hope it flies.
Oh and just to put the final nail in your troll argument those addons you mentioned are a limited radius and the killers have gto give up something to use them, you know drawbacks. Oh and lest we forget the Doctors Ultra rare like Iridescent King.
So when you're ready to have an actual debate and not try and troll your way out of one the rest of us will be here waiting.
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Qed, i win. As always.
@everyone else To make things clear, I wasn't trying to argue anything with them. It's just not worth the hassle. Someone who thinks the Doctor is a good killer is either very, very deluded or a poor troll (wich is powerbats' case specifically). Their last posts made it even more clear. Qed, as I was saying.0 -
@Acromio said:
Qed, i win. As always.
@everyone else To make things clear, I wasn't trying to argue anything with them. It's just not worth the hassle. Someone who thinks the Doctor is a good killer is either very, very deluded or a poor troll (wich is powerbats' case specifically). Their last posts made it even more clear. Qed, as I was saying.Translation I was trying to argue and insult him but got exposed by it so now I'm going to use more of the usual troll Ad Hominems and hope no one notices.
Bottom line just because you don't know how to play him or aren't very good with him doesn't mean he's not a good killer. Since if he wasn't no one one that actually knows how to play him would ever use him at rank 1 let alone 4k.
But go ahead and keep on trying to troll, use Ad Hominems, Straw Man's etc since you can't debate and thus resort to the typical troll responses.
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@Master said:
@White_Owl said:
The Doctor is among my top 3 killers and I find very annoying the propentity to tunnel of most Doctor players. The reason they can keep up despite playing horribly is just one: survivors who just got unhooked are still in Madness 3 and are very easy to find.
I think if unhooked survivors had their Madness regressed to tier 2 good Doctors wouldn't be affected at all. I know I wouldn't. Also, it would maybe induce people to learn a bit more of the Doctor, who is not only the one "that makes people scream and easy to find".Should freddy be nerfed too?
Nice try. Is there someone that came here not to troll?
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Qed, i win. As always.
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@White_Owl said:
@Master said:
@White_Owl said:
The Doctor is among my top 3 killers and I find very annoying the propentity to tunnel of most Doctor players. The reason they can keep up despite playing horribly is just one: survivors who just got unhooked are still in Madness 3 and are very easy to find.
I think if unhooked survivors had their Madness regressed to tier 2 good Doctors wouldn't be affected at all. I know I wouldn't. Also, it would maybe induce people to learn a bit more of the Doctor, who is not only the one "that makes people scream and easy to find".Should freddy be nerfed too?
Nice try. Is there someone that came here not to troll?
Hard not to troll when you suggest things like this
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This sounds like an excuse to not want to use Snap Out of It. Doctor’s speciality is finding Survivors. If you don’t want to be tunneled because of the screams in tier 3, then just have another Survivor block him from getting to you while you remove tier 3 or have the other Survivor heal you before you break out of tier 3 so you can loop him for longer and get him to leave you alone because you're making him waste time chasing you. It also makes the game a little bit scarier because you're never truly safe from Madness 3 even when you're trying to remove it.
I'm pretty sure powerbats wasn't being serious with that comment.Acromio said:@powerbats said:
Doctorino op, plz nerf duud!1!!!!He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius. All he has is a mediocre tracking ability that can be replicated with perks (Whispers, Predator) and outclassed by certain addons (All-seeing, Amanda's letter). There's no need to remove the only way the Doctor has to keep a bit of pressure on the survivors.
But, of course, you're powerbats, so I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying and come up with a valid counter-argument. Too bad this forum doesn't have "hide this user's posts" option like Steam.0 -
@SnakeSound222 said:
This sounds like an excuse to not want to use Snap Out of It. Doctor’s speciality is finding Survivors. If you don’t want to be tunneled because of the screams in tier 3, then just have another Survivor block him from getting to you while you remove tier 3 or have the other Survivor heal you before you break out of tier 3 so you can loop him for longer and get him to leave you alone because you're making him waste time chasing you. It also makes the game a little bit scarier because you're never truly safe from Madness 3 even when you're trying to remove it.
Acromio said:@powerbats said:
Doctorino op, plz nerf duud!1!!!!
He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius. All he has is a mediocre tracking ability that can be replicated with perks (Whispers, Predator) and outclassed by certain addons (All-seeing, Amanda's letter). There's no need to remove the only way the Doctor has to keep a bit of pressure on the survivors.
But, of course, you're powerbats, so I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying and come up with a valid counter-argument. Too bad this forum doesn't have "hide this user's posts" option like Steam.
I'm pretty sure powerbats wasn't being serious with that comment.
I didn't say that but the troll thought he'd be cute and try and lob that out there and then when I called him on it tried to troll more and got nailed even harder. So now he's down to just trolling with Qed I win troll failures now.
Here's what I actually said.
@powerbats said:
@Acromio said:
So, basically you want a garbage tier killer nerfed? Get lost with that.**> If you think Doctor is garbage tier then there's no helping you and only bad Doctors ran NC on him because it's a waster perk. Also why is this a nerf considering they're still in madness II and it's not like you can't just come back and reshock them.
I mean even Freddy's victim get woken up when he hooks them and the Doctor is made for tracking survivors provided of course you know how to play him.**
There now you can see how bad he was trying to troll and how badly he failed, so badly in fact he got a double lol meme.
In fact this is how bad his trolling is that it deserves the ultimate failure award.
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Qed, i win. As always.
And powerbats is left alone eating dirt again. As always.0 -
@SnakeSound222 said:
This sounds like an excuse to not want to use Snap Out of It. Doctor’s speciality is finding Survivors. If you don’t want to be tunneled because of the screams in tier 3, then just have another Survivor block him from getting to you while you remove tier 3 or have the other Survivor heal you before you break out of tier 3 so you can loop him for longer and get him to leave you alone because you're making him waste time chasing you. It also makes the game a little bit scarier because you're never truly safe from Madness 3 even when you're trying to remove it.Sure because everyone is playing swf and can count on someone to take the aggro, right? There's also always the time to snap out of it in safety. It's also so scary and fun being chased by a bad Doctor only because RNG decided to screw you up...
And ffs, stop with this idea that the Doctor's power is for finding survivors. His ability is to mess with them, making them think they are in danger when they're not and vicersa making them go where they think they are safe, and denying loops (if you know what the hell you're doing). The tracking is only the cherry on top of this.
Yes I get triggered about the Doctor because I spent a lot of time getting good with him, reading such things for me is like reading that the Nurse is bad becuase you don't know you can attack after a blink.0 -
Mate, listen carefully. You only nerf something that is unfair or overpowered(or even both).
With that said, madness is the only way the Doctor has to build pressure which has counterplay. So there's no need to nerf a mid tier killer.
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@Acromio said:
Qed, i win. As always.
And powerbats is left alone eating dirt again. As always.The usual troll response, can't win so deflect and act like you won something when there's nothing to win unless this is a contest to stroke your ego.
Also that insult fell as flat as your last one did I mean I've heard better insults being tossed around at elementary schools while on yard duty.
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Doctor doesn't need nerfs. He's fine.0
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@Unnamed_Freak said:
Mate, listen carefully. You only nerf something that is unfair or overpowered(or even both).With that said, madness is the only way the Doctor has to build pressure which has counterplay. So there's no need to nerf a mid tier killer.
It seems you guys are not listening, all I get in response is "the doctor is bad so no", but as I explained in the op, I do think that mechanic is unfair and has very little counter, especially for solo survivors, which as usual get the short end of the stick but nobody cares appearently. And as I already explained, you can do very good without relying on this mechanic because Doc has much more to offer than a mechanic to tunnel more easily: his power is the more complex and with many facets but everyone just reduces him to one. Last but not least, I do think this doesn't help killers too, since it's easy to think that's the Doc's "thing" so people don't really get good with him and play him "just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius" good for tunneling, and then cry because the Doctor is bad and they get gen rushed.
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I wouldn't mind this to be honest. Besides he's probably gonna get buffs soon anyways to compensate his lack of lethality.White_Owl said:The Doctor is among my top 3 killers and I find very annoying the propentity to tunnel of most Doctor players. The reason they can keep up despite playing horribly is just one: survivors who just got unhooked are still in Madness 3 and are very easy to find.
I think if unhooked survivors had their Madness regressed to tier 2 good Doctors wouldn't be affected at all. I know I wouldn't. Also, it would maybe induce people to learn a bit more of the Doctor, who is not only the one "that makes people scream and easy to find".0 -
@Nickenzie said:
he's probably gonna get buffs soon anyways to compensate his lack of lethality.I don't think so. Remember MCote's "Not all killers are supposed to be viable"? Besides, the Doctor is very good at killing scrubs (I bet he has the best killrate at Rank 20, right under Freddy), so...
Post edited by Acromio on0 -
Yes, because being penetrated by a damn hook is so ######### soothing.
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@AcromioAcromio said:@Nickenzie said:
he's probably gonna get buffs soon anyways to compensate his lack of lethality.I don't think so. Remember MCote's "Not all killers are supposed to be viable"? Besides, the Doctor is very good a killing scrubs (I bet he has the best killrate at Rank 20, right under Freddy), so...
I understand where you are coming from but the developers done a lot of things for the killer role. It wouldn't be such a stretch to say they might give Doctor a QoL buff!
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@Acromio said:
@Nickenzie said:
he's probably gonna get buffs soon anyways to compensate his lack of lethality.I don't think so. Remember MCote's "Not all killers are supposed to be viable"? Besides, the Doctor is very good a killing scrubs (I bet he has the best killrate at Rank 20, right under Freddy), so...
Well We know Freddy's up next and Hag/Trapper/Wraith have gotten their much needed reworks Doctor is probably in a better spot than say Amanda/Bubba.
Bubba after Freddy is probably most in need of a full rework then Amanda and Doctor needs changes as well with one thing being his aoe aura can be gamed.
I noticed as both a killer and survivor is that survivors can get just outside his melee range but still be inside his shock range. So no matter what they never build up static charges and also can't be shocked if he's in treatment mode.
I don't abuse it but i've seen survivors do it from both sides of gameplay and it's something that should be changed. But he should also have a fix put in for the macro users that start the shock and change to punishment and get 2 actions at the exact same time.
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@Acromio said:
@powerbats said:
Doctorino op, plz nerf duud!1!!!!He's just a M1 killer with a ginormus terror radius. All he has is a mediocre tracking ability that can be replicated with perks (Whispers, Predator) and outclassed by certain addons (All-seeing, Amanda's letter). There's no need to remove the only way the Doctor has to keep a bit of pressure on the survivors.
But, of course, you're powerbats, so I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying and come up with a valid counter-argument. Too bad this forum doesn't have "hide this user's posts" option like Steam.Why are you being such a troll. Powerbats never wrote that #########. You deserve a ban to be honest.
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Check out my avatar, I play Doctor a lot.
While I understand OP's complaint that getting unhooked into Madness 3 makes it nearly impossible to lose the Doctor in a chase, his idea to regress Madness to level 2 would have a major impact on generator completion times.
You can't take away Doctor's ability to stall the game without giving him something substantial to compensate. On top of that, he's already a low-mid tier killer in high ranks. He actually needs a buff, preferably to his shock therapy. A slight range buff and the removal of the 1 second delay after he releases his sparks would be some welcome quality of life changes.
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@aarongai said:
Check out my avatar, I play Doctor a lot.While I understand OP's complaint that getting unhooked into Madness 3 makes it nearly impossible to lose the Doctor in a chase, his idea to regress Madness to level 2 would have a major impact on generator completion times.
You can't take away Doctor's ability to stall the game without giving him something substantial to compensate. On top of that, he's already a low-mid tier killer in high ranks. He actually needs a buff, preferably to his shock therapy. A slight range buff and the removal of the 1 second delay after he releases his sparks would be some welcome quality of life changes.
I disagree on the fact it would impact a lot, and imo in capable hands he is definetly not mid-low tier. His problem is that he needs a lot of practice with shock attacks to make really use of them. Personally I'd like a rework for addons for the shock attacks, since currently they are way more effective at base
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@White_Owl said:
@aarongai said:
Check out my avatar, I play Doctor a lot.While I understand OP's complaint that getting unhooked into Madness 3 makes it nearly impossible to lose the Doctor in a chase, his idea to regress Madness to level 2 would have a major impact on generator completion times.
You can't take away Doctor's ability to stall the game without giving him something substantial to compensate. On top of that, he's already a low-mid tier killer in high ranks. He actually needs a buff, preferably to his shock therapy. A slight range buff and the removal of the 1 second delay after he releases his sparks would be some welcome quality of life changes.
I disagree on the fact it would impact a lot, and imo in capable hands he is definetly not mid-low tier. His problem is that he needs a lot of practice with shock attacks to make really use of them. Personally I'd like a rework for addons for the shock attacks, since currently yhey are more an hindrance and the shock are way more effective at base
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Doctor in the right hands in an absolute terror and I've been 4k'd with only 1 or no gens done just because they played him to the utmost. Their pathing was impeccable, loops never worked, they'd cut corners, mind game you to pieces etc.
The same is true for Freddy's, Hags, Trappers etc, if you know how to maximize their kits and get the most out of them you'll do well.
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Except for BBQ. 64k bloodpoints taste nice if you ask me.Orion said:Too true. You don't put tracking perks on a guy who's inherently good at tracking Survivors. That'd be like putting a (hypothetical) perk that allows you to teleport on the Nurse.
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@Condorloco_26 said:
Except for BBQ. 64k bloodpoints taste nice if you ask me.But then you're not using it for the tracking; you're using it for the BP.
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