Killer winstreaks
Comments
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I literally don't care for winstreaks in this game. But if some players need self validation on a casual asymmetrical horror video game, more power to them.
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Let them enjoy their win streaks perhaps? They’re not breaking any rules or cheating while doing their win streaks.
I assume these players have already played lots of DBD and farming for bloodpoints isn’t attractive to them anymore. If games are dumbed down further till the point that experience and adequate game sense doesn’t mean much, what’s the point of playing?
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I'm pretty sure these winstreaks are part of the reason content creators were unhappy with the soft cap being raised. Some seem to think BHVR have reverted the change (would love confirmation but I doubt we will get it) so it seems like they rely on matchmaking being as poor as it is in order to do these.
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Really proves how broken the game has become while BHVR continues to follow the sheep with survivor nerf after survivor nerf and killer buff every time we see a new dev talk. The game deserves to die with how badly unbalanced it is. No other game can someone win like that.
No killer main can switch to survivor and do a win streak. They actually don't exist.
There is living proof everywhere the game is totally busted in favor of killer.
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Hopefully this brings more attention to how ridiculous Blight is. I personally want to see Momo reach 3000 wins in a row. At some point the devs will have to admit that it's just silly.
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And the game is survivor sided, right?
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Here's a question for you.
Is it a problem with someone does it as a survivor team as well? You know the same kinds of teams that otz plays with when he plays with hens and ayrun and they do these "hardcore survivor" challenges? And they go on big win streaks?
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At the highest level? Yeah it is.
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Is it also a problem when survivors do it? Because hens/aryun/otz are also doing big win streaks and they are even handicapping themselves as survivors to using only certain perks, or no perks, etc.
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I've always thought that the biggest problem was the number of people who've pulled off killer win streaks, not the streaks themselves. If it was just a player or two then the 'oh yeah, they are the best player', but it is a feat that lots of players have pulled off. Compare that to the survivor streaks and you are looking at some of the absolute best survivors.
The second issue though is the killer's who've pulled it off with major handicaps.
Streaks in competitive events should be extremely rare. Magnus Carlsen streak of wins in chess as some say the best player in history is 42 with draws not ending the streak. Taking a quick look at major competitive sports the highest streaks are usually in the 20s, and that are for some sports with over a hundred years of play. If you are being matched against competition that is even relatively on your level, a winning streak in the hundreds should be impossible.
It is an inherent problem/inevitability with the game design. Each of us, hypothetically, could become as good as a top tier comp killer. To become equivalent to a comp tier survivor we'd have to get as good and then find three other people on the same level.
You know the same kinds of teams that otz plays with when he plays with hens and ayrun and they do these "hardcore survivor" challenges? And they go on big win streaks?That's not what the hardcore series was/is. They start fresh survivors, so they are at low MMR and they talk about how much harder the games get later on as MMR improves. Second the goal is not a win streak, but to get to Iri 1 before all of there available survivors die off, wins and losses are irrelevant.
They also failed the most recent attempt.
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People discount these streaks as "not meaning anything, it's good players playing pubs lol" but in the next thread will talk about how impossibly hard killer is. I guess all of these people are playing customs against competitive teams, surely they can't be playing pubs because that would necessarily mean they are simply not good enough at the game. I mean, if good players can get 4k streaks of hundreds or even thousands of matches, even when using lower-tier killers, no perks, or at 3-4 gens left standing, and you struggle to win even just every then and again, you are having a massive skill issue. Although I suspect that while many of the people complaining about survivors being unbeatable truly just are bad, many others of them actually do already win 60 or even 70% or more of their matches, but think every single match they lose is proof that the game is skewed against them, because there was absolutely nothing they could have done differently or better.
Truth of the matter is that these streaks showcase how killer-sided the game is when you don't have full squads on voice communication and build coordination, as well as disparities in levels of skill, experience and trying to win. Sure the matchmaking is majorly at fault for these killers only vanishingly rarely being paired against SWFs of a similar level, but we are all playing on the same matchmaking - if you struggle to perform as killer in this environment and think that's because survivors are super OP, you are simply bad at the game. Acknowledging and accepting this is the first step to improving. Good killers won the vast majority of their matches even years, years back when the game actually objectively was survivor-sided. In the public match mode (i. e. the only mode everyone that talks about these kinds of things on these forums plays), the game is skill-sided first and foremost. And especially so on the killer side, because on the survivor side it obviously takes 4 skilled players coming together, which is exceedingly rare unless you have a 4-player SWF.
Ridiculous streaks like this are unthinkable in any even approachingly competitively viable game, and they should be a huge point of shame for the devs. Some of those killers are completely busted and have been for years, and the matchmaking is just not strict enough to ever give players like this an actual challenge. If you are afraid that a stricter matchmaking would make people leave, introduce a competitive and casual queue. If you are afraid that at a more strict top MMR bracket cheaters would be too frequently met, implement something that preferentially pairs people with many reports for cheating against other such players (something you already should be doing, the vast majority of submitted reports do nothing at all because an external ticket with video evidence is needed).
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1000 win streak killers are just mid MMR.
Killers in forum who struggle to get a kill and demand constant nerf on survivors actually in high MMR, which is why in high MMR its survivor sided.
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Spirit after 50 lose streak and Entity decides to put her on top 5% MMR.
Post edited by EQWashu on6 -
I am not sure what you mean with "problem", but if you mean the difficulty, yes it is. Like said times before survivor go on streaks but those streaks are compared to the killer streaks laughable.
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None of the ongoing streaks except knightlight's have self imposed limitations, they are going all in for the win, and I already commented on them not being impressive but quite easy to achieve given a dedicated player on one side and the average players on the other.
Hen's team instead had quite a few limitations too (only items found in chests, perks could not be repeated more than twice, I think some perks were banned too since they didn't have CoH), they weren't bringing the most busted things survivors had available on their side, and they lost it to a nurse who brought the strongest things available to her at the time.
But then again, you keep mentioning around the healing nerfs as if they killed survivor gameplay. I'm sure you must be one of the best survivor players around, it's just the game that's limiting you 😞 as you said, my take is wrong, the fact that scottjund was able to get a streak longer than 3 games with old bubba, using speed limiter, with old map balancing doesn't say anything at all about most of the playerbase. Or V1, with his blight streak were his losing condition was 2 gens popping, blight is too overwhelming for players to pop 2 gens 🤧
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They are playing on their main accounts, they aren't resetting their MMR.
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So, "its fine when survivors do it" sounds pretty biased to me.
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I don't think the matchmaking is not strict enough, I think that there just are not enough players at that high level to find a game to put them all in...
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Hens Lumpy Dan and Laser do that is true, however that is not the Hardcore streak that was mentioned... The Hardcore survivor challenge is 4 new accounts and play them up to iri 1...
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I'm talking about the ones where the play matches and heavily limit themselves I.E. No duplicate perks etc. Not some weird novelty one.
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That is not a new one, they are doing this for years now... Also the players are not the same...
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Fun fact: in a previous video, Otz explained that he won´t do any more win streaks. In fact, most streamers stopped doing win streaks.
Now take a guess why.
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Yes it should because this game still has no proper way to estimate the skill of such players. They're beyond 3k / 2.3k mmr hard/softcaps.
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Nice try.
Otz did winstreaks with outrageous limitations like using no Add Ons or really bad Perks. The Winstreaks in the video he is talking about are with the best Add Ons on the strongest Killers.
Quite a difference. But as I said, nice try.
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The thing is, the Survivor winstreak you are talking about is a bit different.
This was one person escaping and they did this with several things to their advantage. E.g. old Hatch was still a thing, old Keys as well. So even if you lost the game, you can escape with a Key. Also, they had a 3 SWF-players with them which were ready to die for the one person who had the streak.
This is quite a special situation IMO.
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The 500 one was without keys and hatch as Otz mentioned however I don't know the exact limitations... See the problem is for example Hens' streak can basically only die against the same thing Knighlights streak can only fail... In both cases the opposing team would need to be a 4men comp team or a comp Nurse/Blight/Spirit... This the case for the last time the 200+ winstreak of Hens and his friends ended... However it is far easier to have one comp killer trying to snipe an escape streak than having 4 survivors trying to snipe a killer streak, coordination, people being ready and so on... Besides the point where the comp survivors need to push their MMR higher to get matched, because they tend to not play pubs... For this reason killer streaks tend to go higher than survivor streaks...
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I've never really seen the point in winstreak challenges in DBD as the criteria for what even counts as a "win" in this game in relation to killer gameplay isn't standardized. Like every person who does one has their own little rule set and way classifying what they'll consider a win or a loss and while some are extremely strict others are extremely loose.
When you can just tailor the rules to suit your desired outcome I don't see the real value in it. I also don't think they say much about the overall state of the game because the results aren't necessarily repeatable by the majority of players. No matter what game you play you're going to have outliers that are over performant, but you can't really balance around the most extreme edge case player. This especially true when you're dealing with challenges played under arbitrary user defined rules. It would be one thing if this were even a semi-codified universally accepted rule set and the results were consistent across multiple players of varying skill levels. That generally isn't what is happening though and most people who play this game aren't remotely close to that level of skill.
Survivors not having streaks of the same length makes sense as in the case of survivor the understanding of what constitutes a "win" is much more concrete. You have to escape and generally speaking DBD is a team game until it isn't which is how basically everyone plays survivor. There are more points of failure that can come into play no matter how good a singular survivor is that can just flat out result in death. So a winstreak is much more likely to be broken earlier than a killer's who's qualifications for winning are much more nebulous and depend solely on their individual skill rather than a team's collective skill.
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Since this game is so obviously killer sided and these ridiculously high killer win streaks are so common, then just buff Survivors until they can also perform 1000+ win streaks. I'd really enjoy seeing how all these ego stroking killer mains respond when the situation is reversed.
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Aaaand where does this contradict what i said? Otz said he´s completely stopping with his kill streak videos on a video thats 5 days old.
Want me to link it?
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Win Streaks say anything at all. Of course people that reached high win streak are good at Killer, but usually win streaks end when Survivors bring strong items / perks and Survivors are good in chase and organised. You can play 200 matches and didn't fight such a team and you can play 5 matches and play against strong SWF. Win Streaks are very RNG dependent...
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Unless you are a comp player with the strongest stuff on one of the top 3-4 killers... Then the odds of you facing a 4 men comp squad that would be able to win are fairly low...
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Damn i remember when Marth did his depid squad vids and won big times, many people dismissed that.
A killer does a streak and suddenly it's the irrefuteable evidence of killer sidedness in the game.
Anyone else ever notice the survivor bias of this community?
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If a comp Players brings the strongest stuff on the strongest Killer in Public Matches he shouldn't be able to lose matches, right? I'm pretty sure if he would meet strong SWF with items he would struggle very hard to win this.
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I don't care how bad you think survivors are, you are not bringing a 1600+ win streak if the game was 'massively survivor sided'. Logically, if the game actually WAS massively survivor sided, that win streak would've been clipped much, MUCH earlier.
It also goes without saying that the people achieving these streaks are the top 1% of the playerbase.
But that would mean they're also getting pitted against the top 1% of the playerbase, so why aren't their streaks breaking?
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I don't think he would... A strong swf of pub players would lose this without much effort... I'm sure in some of the 500 matches Knightlight played were some strong SWFs in there... But the gap between good swf and a comp swf is way bigger than you seem to assume... Think about it, in those 500 matches not once have they finished all 5 gens... And Knightlight himself said that the only way for him to lose the streak is against 4 comp players...
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SBMM first come out, the upper MMR is sweat every game with gens flying. Complaints about not being fun anymore.
Devs relax MMR.
Killers: Yeah! Time to do win streaks again. Precedes to hard tunnel and slug every match.
Community: How can killers have these long win streaks?
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Because matchmaking never worked that way?
At the best of times it pitched top 1% player against the top 10-20% to reduce queue times and that's only a guess already. It then got even sloppier when they softened everything about matchmaking.
Only at the beginning of sbmmr was it even close to what you describe and that ended with those 1% having 2hour+ queue times.
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The blight guy openly admits to deranking off stream. As much as ppl clown on the mmr softcap there is 100% a massive diff between players at the cap and those who are not
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Even if the numbers work out the way you describe here, that 1% player is going to go up against a 1% opponent either 10% of the time or 5% of the time (using your top 10-20%).
So in 100 games, they're up against that top 1% team at least 5 or 10 times. By the time they hit 1000 games, it's 50 or 100 times, which means they're still unstoppable against a similarly skilled team.
The current SWF escape streak is about 220 ish games in a row, with a 4 man comp team SWF, which is the strongest force in the universe according to the forums. And yet they were beaten and the streak broken, which is what you'd expect from anything resembling balance in a game.
Having a killer steak this long is concerning at a minimum. Having it be determined by play style and not particular perks or abilities/add-ons makes it more concerning, since a play style is more difficult to balance. It's actually be nice if it was an obvious outlier of 'oh, clearly this add-on is overtuned', but the fact that blight, clown, twins, and nurse were the top 4 streaks last time I saw a full list means that tunneling is so strong even m1 killers can be unstoppable.
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I still remember that incredibly based Freddy player who got a pip against them.
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But they'd have a significantly higher chance of going up against these alleged death squads than anyone else, surely? You may have a point with smaller sample sizes, but over 1000 games, it's hard to maintain this position.
Not to mention that if the game is truly survivor-sided, then it's not just survivors of similar skill level that would be able to trump the killer, it'd be others within that 10-20% bracket too. But apparently those don't show up either because the streak goes on unbroken.
Remember, only -one- team of survivors has to outperform the killer to break the streak. But in over a thousand games, not once has the matchmaker seen fit to match this top 1% killer up against survivors that are sufficiently close to their skill level to use the 'massively survivor-sided' game's imbalance to topple the streak.
It just seems like too much of a stretch.
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More strict matchmaking also makes queue times longer for these people as well. The combination of having long downtime and harder matches just isn't ideal for content creators and since DBD isn't a serious competitive game, BHVR has little incentive to treat matchmaking as such.
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Yea...not impressive to me. I mean, props to the people who stayed consistent and kept going. But I never liked how a killer can go on a 500+ winstreak while survivors struggle to even get 10 wins a row in an SWF. Let alone 3 wins in a row as a solo que. There's just so much more that can go wrong on the survivor side, that the odds are incredibly stacked against you in terms of making it out alive.
Survivor winstreaks aren't impressive b/c you need a sweat-fest SWF like Eternal to pull it off consistently. Having even 1 sub-par or bad player on your team lowers your chances of winning so much.
Killer winstreaks aren't impressive b/c of playstyle, less things that can go wrong, can dictate the pace and set the pressure, etc.
You rarely ever see survivor winstreaks, where as you hear and see killer winstreaks quite often. Again, props to the ones who went on the streaks but this is just my opinion on em. They aren't equal.
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How do I obtain this killstreak power using Myers? 🤔
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First of all, I don't really care about this win streak argument but wanted to correct the fact that matchmaking only ever worked like @Firellius said for a very short time around the implementation of sbmmr, which led to insanely long queue times for the top of both sides. After that it got changed and then softened at least once again. So even my 10-20% might be a low guess.
Second, @AmpersandUnderscore your statistics are based on a wrong assumption.
Tldr: You forgot that the matchmaking algorithm doesn't only pit the 1% killer against the 10-20% survivor but the same bracket percentage on both sides with however much skill comparison really involved so the chance can be waaay lower than the 5% in this example.
For the sake of the arguments I will use idealized factors like 20% fix for the top bracket used by the matchmaking, instead of 10-20% and 1killer/a 4men squad for each %.
The matchmaking algorithm is also assumed as purely RNG in the respective bracket, seeing how many people question it on regular basis on here and my personal experience that ranged from 4men swf styling on me to 4 obvious solo so bad I had to carry them to the exit in consecutive matches, despite the same playstyle for 50-100 hours during my experiment. Also because any real factoring of the algorithm would be pure speculation and make this whole thing too complicated for my after-work-brain right now.
So with that out of the way:
Even if the numbers work out the way you describe here, that 1% player is going to go up against a 1% opponent either 10% of the time or 5% of the time (using your top 10-20%).
So in 100 games, they're up against that top 1% team at least 5 or 10 times. By the time they hit 1000 games, it's 50 or 100 times, which means they're still unstoppable against a similarly skilled team.
No matter how the matchmaking algorithm works it never only puts the 1% killer (1player) vs the 20% survivor (20 4men swf) but all 20% killer vs the 20% survivor.
So the chance of the the top 1% meeting the other 1% isn't simply 5% but, just like rolling a 1 on a d20 twice in a row 1/20 times 1/20, so 1/400 aka 0.25%.
Of course this doesn't take any real work of the algorithm into consideration but also not the real amount of players in each of the % on either side. That ratio could be the perfect 1/4 but is more likely to be 1/3 or 1/2 or even more on the killer side because to be one of the 1% on killer side needs only one person and for survivor 4 need to work together.
So with my idealized model the chance of this blight main that has his 1,6k win streak to meet a swf on the same level would amounts to 4 games.
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I did not say that.
Personally, i dont care if someone goes for a winstreak or not. The irritating part is that the ballance issue in public DBD is so wild that killer can go for thousend wins in a row while survivor struggle to get to two hundred. Isnt that a little bit to much? Imagine you have a 80% winchance when playing white in chess. That would not be fun at all. I know, not a 1 to 1 translateable example, but you get the idea.
On top of this, the conditions they had on those streaks makes it even more astonishing. 1600 wins on Blight ez pz 4K, while Oracle could reach the 200 with the condition that 1 person was allowed to die. 3 escpaes was enough.
I would be suprised if a strong and tunneling mid/low tier killer like Myers could not reach 1000+ wins in a row with condition like the survivors (3k is good enough)
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I dont need to guess, he explained why he is not doing it anymore. Cheaters. Wasting time on hundreds of wins in a row and then get robed by a cheater can be very daunting.
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That was at 2018-19.
Megablink Nurse was at 10.000 wins in a row, is this also relevant?
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Clock that tea C3. 💅
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This was years ago. Do you know of something recent? Like within the past 8-12 months? Just something analogous to the killer winstreaks that are current.
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