Decisive Strike and Noed is getting out of hand

SpEz

So the two broken things in this game atm Noed and d strike aren’t they a pain in the balls atm YES they are!! Like when I pick up a survivor I get punished for doing my objective like just who thought of this? And Noed I get killed just because I’m doing the objective? They both need to be changed ASAP people are leaving this game because of these two broken problems. The devs need to realise this and change them it would make the game a lot better. So here’s a few ways on how I would change both of these perks: 

Decisive strike
1.Rework decisive strike so that if they succeed the skill check 50% of the wiggle bar will be complete and the killers movement is decreased to 40% for 4 seconds. 

Hex: No one escapes Death:
1. If there is a dull totem remaining and once the exit gates are powered all survivors suffer from the exposed effect for 60 seconds after the exposed effect ends the killers movement speed is increased by 4%.

Vietfox

Different year same topic...

SpEz

Ik right? They still haven’t fixed them like I would have expected these to be changed ages ago 

Vietfox

Both perks are fine, just learn to deal with them.

fcc2014

Both are fine can someone drop a GIT Gud Meme!

Orion

Just break the totem.

MasonHugsCats

Noed is usually broken before the exit gates open. At rank 1-5 my NOED never activates. DS is bs tho. The DS once the exit gate is open is a free kill.

Cardgrey

fcc2014 said:

Both are fine can someone drop a GIT Gud Meme!

Done 

Cardgrey

@EntityDispleased said:
How do you even go down to noed just break the totem lmao.

It’s like a child who is told no candy. They will turn in there brother/sister who has some just to deny them.(wanna say I have no issues with both perks)

ShrimpTwiggs

I see both sides of the coin here. DS might not be an issue against casual players, but it has potential to really screw you over in a match. NOeD isn't much of a problem if your teammates know to break totems, but if you're playing solo and the killer is applying a good amount of pressure, you can't take all of them out by yourself. If your teammates fail to do any totems, you could be the one getting punished by it.

Cardgrey

@ShrimpTwiggs said:
I see both sides of the coin here. DS might not be an issue against casual players, but it has potential to really screw you over in a match. NOeD isn't much of a problem if your teammates know to break totems, but if you're playing solo and the killer is applying a good amount of pressure, you can't take all of them out by yourself. If your teammates fail to do any totems, you could be the one getting punished by it.

Idk man honestly I consider noed weak. Like u take that with the plan of Them getting gens done. I run ruin,iron grasp,nurses and discordance/ franklins and normally get at least 3 by 1-3 gens left.

ShrimpTwiggs

@Cardgrey said:

@ShrimpTwiggs said:
I see both sides of the coin here. DS might not be an issue against casual players, but it has potential to really screw you over in a match. NOeD isn't much of a problem if your teammates know to break totems, but if you're playing solo and the killer is applying a good amount of pressure, you can't take all of them out by yourself. If your teammates fail to do any totems, you could be the one getting punished by it.

Idk man honestly I consider noed weak. Like u take that with the plan of Them getting gens done. I run ruin,iron grasp,nurses and discordance/ franklins and normally get at least 3 by 1-3 gens left.

It's incredibly weak against SWF, but against solos, it can be devastating if you're playing a killer that can apply serious pressure, like the Nurse or Billy. If you don't give the survivors time to do anything but gens, it can net you a 4k.

DwightsLifeMatters

ShrimpTwiggs said:

I see both sides of the coin here. DS might not be an issue against casual players, but it has potential to really screw you over in a match. NOeD isn't much of a problem if your teammates know to break totems, but if you're playing solo and the killer is applying a good amount of pressure, you can't take all of them out by yourself. If your teammates fail to do any totems, you could be the one getting punished by it.

Couldn't agree more. Noed stomps solos, and DS in hands of decent survivors stomps the killer. And in hands of good swf groups even more

NMCKE

Orion said:

Just break the totem.

This isn't exactly fair to the survivor role. Hear me out, I can cleanse every totem I see but still have NOED activate because my teammates didn't help me (ironically they escape with me facing the punishment). Basically, it's a 1v1 situation (since I'm the only survivor cleansing all if the totems) when the game is built around a 1v4. Knowing this, a single survivor will struggle to find 5 totems since that task is meant for all survivors. Here's a rework I have in mind that's more solo Q survivor friendly while remaining strong.

No One Escapes Death:

Progress infuriates you and calls upon the wrath of the Entity. Every time a generator is repaired, gain a 10% haste effect for the next 30 seconds. Upon the completion of the final generator, all pallets remaining in the trial are destroyed.

Notice: It's not a Hex

Vietfox

@Nickenzie said:

@Orion said:

Just break the totem.

This isn't exactly fair to the survivor role. Hear me out, I can cleanse every totem I see but still have NOED activate because my teammates didn't help me

@Nickenzie
Then do what i do, run small game and cleanse all 5 totems by yourself. Most randoms will focus on gens, do what most randoms wouldnt do and you'll succeed.

NMCKE

Vietfox said:

@Nickenzie said:

@Orion said:

Just break the totem.

This isn't exactly fair to the survivor role. Hear me out, I can cleanse every totem I see but still have NOED activate because my teammates didn't help me

@Nickenzie
Then do what i do, run small game and cleanse all 5 totems by yourself. Most randoms will focus on gens, do what most randoms wouldnt do and you'll succeed.

That's a dilemma, you won't get emblem points for destroying dull totems. If the developers add a small bonus to destroying dull totems, count me in.

Vietfox

Nickenzie said:

Vietfox said:

@Nickenzie said:

@Orion said:

Just break the totem.

This isn't exactly fair to the survivor role. Hear me out, I can cleanse every totem I see but still have NOED activate because my teammates didn't help me

@Nickenzie
Then do what i do, run small game and cleanse all 5 totems by yourself. Most randoms will focus on gens, do what most randoms wouldnt do and you'll succeed.

That's a dilemma, you won't get emblem points for destroying dull totems. If the developers add a small bonus to destroying dull totems, count me in.

@Nickenzie
Honestly i dont care about the emblem system.
Personally i got 2 main goals:
1 - to not give 4K to the killer
2 - try to save as many teammates as i can
And to survive ofc, but that's my 3rd goal. 
It's so satisfying to remove noed before it triggers

Slayer

Both are fine .
1.1 Just break the totem.
1.2 Just keep it stealth after gens are fixed.
2.1 Just dont pick up or dont chase first.
2.2 Just dribble or dont carry long ( there are hooks everywhere)

Faceless

Ds is not broken
and noed go to destroy totens.

Yes this perks is noob friendly. Especially noed.

Killer do nothing in the whole match and in the end kill all in one hit.

NMCKE

Vietfox said:

Nickenzie said:

Vietfox said:

@Nickenzie said:

@Orion said:

Just break the totem.

This isn't exactly fair to the survivor role. Hear me out, I can cleanse every totem I see but still have NOED activate because my teammates didn't help me

@Nickenzie
Then do what i do, run small game and cleanse all 5 totems by yourself. Most randoms will focus on gens, do what most randoms wouldnt do and you'll succeed.

That's a dilemma, you won't get emblem points for destroying dull totems. If the developers add a small bonus to destroying dull totems, count me in.

@Nickenzie
Honestly i dont care about the emblem system.
Personally i got 2 main goals:
1 - to not give 4K to the killer
2 - try to save as many teammates as i can
And to survive ofc, but that's my 3rd goal. 
It's so satisfying to remove noed before it triggers

@Vietfox
If destroying dull totems gave you a 5% bonus to the Lightbringer category with Hex totems being worth doubt the points then we might have something here!

Perhaps they can buff NOED with this change?

Vietfox

Nickenzie said:

Vietfox said:

Nickenzie said:

Vietfox said:

@Nickenzie said:

@Orion said:

Just break the totem.

This isn't exactly fair to the survivor role. Hear me out, I can cleanse every totem I see but still have NOED activate because my teammates didn't help me

@Nickenzie
Then do what i do, run small game and cleanse all 5 totems by yourself. Most randoms will focus on gens, do what most randoms wouldnt do and you'll succeed.

That's a dilemma, you won't get emblem points for destroying dull totems. If the developers add a small bonus to destroying dull totems, count me in.

@Nickenzie
Honestly i dont care about the emblem system.
Personally i got 2 main goals:
1 - to not give 4K to the killer
2 - try to save as many teammates as i can
And to survive ofc, but that's my 3rd goal. 
It's so satisfying to remove noed before it triggers

@Vietfox
If destroying dull totems gave you a 5% bonus to the Lightbringer category with Hex totems being worth doubt the points then we might have something here!

Perhaps they can buff NOED with this change?

@Nickenzie
I think survivors should aim for the greater good, no matter if they get rewarded or not. At least that's what i do.
I don't need/want any emblem to tell me i did well, i just wanna see my teammates escaping.

NMCKE

Vietfox said:

Nickenzie said:

Vietfox said:

Nickenzie said:

Vietfox said:

@Nickenzie said:

@Orion said:

Just break the totem.

This isn't exactly fair to the survivor role. Hear me out, I can cleanse every totem I see but still have NOED activate because my teammates didn't help me

@Nickenzie
Then do what i do, run small game and cleanse all 5 totems by yourself. Most randoms will focus on gens, do what most randoms wouldnt do and you'll succeed.

That's a dilemma, you won't get emblem points for destroying dull totems. If the developers add a small bonus to destroying dull totems, count me in.

@Nickenzie
Honestly i dont care about the emblem system.
Personally i got 2 main goals:
1 - to not give 4K to the killer
2 - try to save as many teammates as i can
And to survive ofc, but that's my 3rd goal. 
It's so satisfying to remove noed before it triggers

@Vietfox
If destroying dull totems gave you a 5% bonus to the Lightbringer category with Hex totems being worth doubt the points then we might have something here!

Perhaps they can buff NOED with this change?

@Nickenzie
I think survivors should aim for the greater good, no matter if they get rewarded or not. At least that's what i do.
I don't need/want any emblem to tell me i did well, i just wanna see my teammates escaping.

I guess.

Spicybarbecue

Notice: It's not a Hex

that's because it didn't used to be tied to a totem it used to be even more broken..you just got it and it had zero counter.
both ds and noed need removed or changed

edit-apparently I have no idea how to quote.

N_o

Both are fine. Ds gives you what an extra 10 seconds vs decent killers. If its a really big deal use enduring to mitigate some of the stun timer
Noed is countered by killing totems.If you feel like they have it kill the totems. Whats hard about this concept.
Both perks are situational tbh, and can be huge or not.
As for people leaving the game because of these 2 perks? Lmfao NAH

Tsulan

I see far more SC than DS or NOED. But I guess SC isn't broken, right?

Freudentrauma

@Tsulan said:
I see far more SC than DS or NOED. But I guess SC isn't broken, right?

Just because you see one perk more than another, it doesn't mean it's completely broken. Survivors take SC more often, so they don't have to rely on their teammates or chest rng, when it comes to healing. But I rarely see survivors healing themselfs, since the healing changes. Only if necessary, because it takes quite long.

DS on the other hand is more broken, considering how much it can lengthen a chase, which is much more devastating for a killer.

Orion

@Nickenzie said:
This isn't exactly fair to the survivor role. Hear me out, I can cleanse every totem I see but still have NOED activate because my teammates didn't help me (ironically they escape with me facing the punishment). Basically, it's a 1v1 situation (since I'm the only survivor cleansing all if the totems) when the game is built around a 1v4. Knowing this, a single survivor will struggle to find 5 totems since that task is meant for all survivors.

Your rework would make NOED completely broken. 10% speed increase is a big difference. If your teammates don't break totems, you can also use Dark Sense and hide.

Tsulan

Freudentrauma said:

@Tsulan said:
I see far more SC than DS or NOED. But I guess SC isn't broken, right?

Just because you see one perk more than another, it doesn't mean it's completely broken. Survivors take SC more often, so they don't have to rely on their teammates or chest rng, when it comes to healing. But I rarely see survivors healing themselfs, since the healing changes. Only if necessary, because it takes quite long.

DS on the other hand is more broken, considering how much it can lengthen a chase, which is much more devastating for a killer.

OP argued that DS and NOED must be broken, because he sees them every match. 
Just following that logic. 

Freudentrauma

@Tsulan said:
Freudentrauma said:

@Tsulan said:

I see far more SC than DS or NOED. But I guess SC isn't broken, right?

Just because you see one perk more than another, it doesn't mean it's completely broken. Survivors take SC more often, so they don't have to rely on their teammates or chest rng, when it comes to healing. But I rarely see survivors healing themselfs, since the healing changes. Only if necessary, because it takes quite long.

DS on the other hand is more broken, considering how much it can lengthen a chase, which is much more devastating for a killer.

OP argued that DS and NOED must be broken, because he sees them every match. 
Just following that logic. 

Ah ok my bad.

NMCKE

Orion said:

@Nickenzie said:
This isn't exactly fair to the survivor role. Hear me out, I can cleanse every totem I see but still have NOED activate because my teammates didn't help me (ironically they escape with me facing the punishment). Basically, it's a 1v1 situation (since I'm the only survivor cleansing all if the totems) when the game is built around a 1v4. Knowing this, a single survivor will struggle to find 5 totems since that task is meant for all survivors.

Your rework would make NOED completely broken. 10% speed increase is a big difference. If your teammates don't break totems, you can also use Dark Sense and hide.

I been using a map to track totems and then use it to find the hatch. It's basically a crutch for me because I don't have to waste time finding totems.

Edit: You know the 10% haste effect only last for 30 seconds, right?

Orion

@Nickenzie said:
I been using a map to track totems and then use it to find the hatch. It's basically a crutch for me because I don't have to waste time finding totems.

Edit: You know the 10% haste effect only last for 30 seconds, right?

Playing in any way except perkless, itemless, and add-onless is a crutch.

Yes, I get that. An increase of 10% to the Killer's base movement speed is slightly higher than Bloodlust II.

NMCKE

Orion said:

@Nickenzie said:
I been using a map to track totems and then use it to find the hatch. It's basically a crutch for me because I don't have to waste time finding totems.

Edit: You know the 10% haste effect only last for 30 seconds, right?

Playing in any way except perkless, itemless, and add-onless is a crutch.

Yes, I get that. An increase of 10% to the Killer's base movement speed is slightly higher than Bloodlust II.

"Playing in any way except perkless, itemless, and add-onless is a crutch."

@Orion, I'm not actually saying a map is crutch. When I said that it is crutch for me, I'm actually just stressing the point on how good this item is to find totems silly head.

"Yes, I get that. An increase of 10% to the Killer's base movement speed is slightly higher than Bloodlust II."

My version of NOED makes the killer strong as generators are completed and believe me, I know how strong a 10% haste effect is. That's why it only affects you for a duration of 30 seconds and those 30 seconds of haste might not be made useful.

Slayer

I dont know really why Noed considered to be strong why people even bother cleaning totems its good to do obly if situation allows it to you( killer didnt kill anyone for 4 gens). You wont believe me but as soon as learned how to play i was never downed by noed . Only when killer was chasing me at a time gens got done but i dont feel outplayed in that case cause i already was chasing with killer long enough or even better case when he downs you when you already were injured. I guess noed is an issue for people that simply cant keep it stealth people that always gets to be found at the first minute of a game

ACEvHEARTS

D-Strike: Dribble. Bring Unnerving Presence. Bring Enduring. Heck, even the random swing when the skill check pops up still works sometimes.

NOED: Cleanse all totems.

Both perks are annoying, but honestly they're fine.

The only change I might like to see with D-Strike is only allowing one per game. If another person has it but is not chosen as the obsession, oh well. You're down a perk. Part of the gamble of bringing it, just like gambling when you bring NOED.

NoShinyPony

@Tsulan said:
I see far more SC than DS or NOED. But I guess SC isn't broken, right?

Nope. It takes super long to selfcare without items, I don't see a problem with this perk.

Also NOED is fine and doesn't need to be changed imho. DS however needs a rework.

Tsulan

@NoShinyPony said:

@Tsulan said:
I see far more SC than DS or NOED. But I guess SC isn't broken, right?

Nope. It takes super long to selfcare without items, I don't see a problem with this perk.

Also NOED is fine and doesn't need to be changed imho. DS however needs a rework.

OP based the problem of the 2 perks on their popularity. There is no other perk around that is as popular as SC.

Hoodied

or you can deal with it like all of us, because those 2 perks are fine, and I play killer often enough to know the pain

inkedsoulz

@SpEz said:
So the two broken things in this game atm Noed and d strike aren’t they a pain in the balls atm YES they are!! Like when I pick up a survivor I get punished for doing my objective like just who thought of this? And Noed I get killed just because I’m doing the objective? They both need to be changed ASAP people are leaving this game because of these two broken problems. The devs need to realise this and change them it would make the game a lot better. So here’s a few ways on how I would change both of these perks: 

Decisive strike
1.Rework decisive strike so that if they succeed the skill check 50% of the wiggle bar will be complete and the killers movement is decreased to 40% for 4 seconds. 

Hex: No one escapes Death:
1. If there is a dull totem remaining and once the exit gates are powered all survivors suffer from the exposed effect for 60 seconds after the exposed effect ends the killers movement speed is increased by 4%.

Both have been on the game for a long time, and people keep playing this game, so there is no problem i guess.

Entità

Both of them are reasonable. The wide divide between a Solo Player and a SWF team is the real problem.

NoShinyPony

@Tsulan said:
OP based the problem of the 2 perks on their popularity.

Where did you read that?

Master

@SpEz said:
So the two broken things in this game atm Noed and d strike aren’t they a pain in the balls atm YES they are!! Like when I pick up a survivor I get punished for doing my objective like just who thought of this? And Noed I get killed just because I’m doing the objective? They both need to be changed ASAP people are leaving this game because of these two broken problems. The devs need to realise this and change them it would make the game a lot better. So here’s a few ways on how I would change both of these perks: 

Decisive strike
1.Rework decisive strike so that if they succeed the skill check 50% of the wiggle bar will be complete and the killers movement is decreased to 40% for 4 seconds. 

Hex: No one escapes Death:
1. If there is a dull totem remaining and once the exit gates are powered all survivors suffer from the exposed effect for 60 seconds after the exposed effect ends the killers movement speed is increased by 4%.

What about unhook invulnerability and BT? Why do I get punished for doing my objective?

Regarding the rework, is that the obsession version of DS? What about the non-obsession one? Right now the idea is weaker than the obsession DS; but significantly stronger than the non-obsession DS-

NoShinyPony

@Entità said:
Both of them are reasonable. The wide divide between a Solo Player and a SWF team is the real problem.

DS is not a problem when it's used by an average player. But in the hands of a very good survivor, DS is super unbalanced. And here is the thing with balance: A game has to be balanced around its best players, not around the average players.

And I agree, the divide between Solo and SWF is a big problem. But that doesn't mean that the current state of DS is not a problem.

bigbadbeetelborg

@Nickenzie

I think survivors should aim for the greater good, no matter if they get rewarded or not. At least that's what i do.
I don't need/want any emblem to tell me i did well, i just wanna see my teammates escaping.

Yes. 

Tsulan

@NoShinyPony said:

@Tsulan said:
OP based the problem of the 2 perks on their popularity.

Where did you read that?

The Title?

powerbats

@Tsulan said:
Freudentrauma said:

@Tsulan said:

I see far more SC than DS or NOED. But I guess SC isn't broken, right?

Just because you see one perk more than another, it doesn't mean it's completely broken. Survivors take SC more often, so they don't have to rely on their teammates or chest rng, when it comes to healing. But I rarely see survivors healing themselfs, since the healing changes. Only if necessary, because it takes quite long.

DS on the other hand is more broken, considering how much it can lengthen a chase, which is much more devastating for a killer.

OP argued that DS and NOED must be broken, because he sees them every match. 
Just following that logic. 

I don't see SC every match as killer and on my fellow survivors I see Bond more along with DH/AD combos. But as a solo I run it since i don't know if I'm paired with depip squad skilled players or a bunch of Idaho potato farmers.

Entità

NoShinyPony said:

@Entità said:
Both of them are reasonable. The wide divide between a Solo Player and a SWF team is the real problem.

DS is not a problem when it's used by an average player. But in the hands of a very good survivor, DS is super unbalanced. And here is the thing with balance: A game has to be balanced around its best players, not around the average players.

And I agree, the divide between Solo and SWF is a big problem. But that doesn't mean that the current state of DS is not a problem.

The question is more complex than that, I fear. In theory, the game should be balanced around the best players, who make optimal use of its mechanics. However, if due to this balance, new players find themselves always losing, then they abandon the game instead of becoming attached and the developers lose future revenue (DLC, cosmetics...) and suffer negative word of mouth. On the other hand, if the killer is as good as the survivor, how long will he be able to catch him again after 5 seconds of stunning? Are we really sure that Decisive Strike steals an unsustainable amount of time from the killer?

NoShinyPony

@Tsulan said:

@NoShinyPony said:

@Tsulan said:
OP based the problem of the 2 perks on their popularity.

Where did you read that?

The Title?

The title is "DS and NOED is getting out of hand". That does not equal to "if fewer people played DS and NOED, these perks would be balanced".

But let's not get lost about a choice of words and instead focus back on if NOED and DS should be reworked.

Poweas

@EntityDispleased said:
How do you even go down to noed just break the totem lmao.

How do you even get D striked, just juggle them. Or run Iron grasp ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) .

Poweas

@Tsulan said:
I see far more SC than DS or NOED. But I guess SC isn't broken, right?

Yeah me too, I see more instaheals then DS as Spirit and I see Ruin/BBQ more then NOED.

Tsulan

@powerbats said:

@Tsulan said:
Freudentrauma said:

@Tsulan said:

I see far more SC than DS or NOED. But I guess SC isn't broken, right?

Just because you see one perk more than another, it doesn't mean it's completely broken. Survivors take SC more often, so they don't have to rely on their teammates or chest rng, when it comes to healing. But I rarely see survivors healing themselfs, since the healing changes. Only if necessary, because it takes quite long.

DS on the other hand is more broken, considering how much it can lengthen a chase, which is much more devastating for a killer.

OP argued that DS and NOED must be broken, because he sees them every match. 
Just following that logic. 

I don't see SC every match as killer and on my fellow survivors I see Bond more along with DH/AD combos. But as a solo I run it since i don't know if I'm paired with depip squad skilled players or a bunch of Idaho potato farmers.

Hey, nothing against idaho potato farmers
I still see between 2 and 4 SC per match. Maybe it´s a region thing.

Tsulan

@NoShinyPony said:

@Tsulan said:

@NoShinyPony said:

@Tsulan said:
OP based the problem of the 2 perks on their popularity.

Where did you read that?

The Title?

The title is "DS and NOED is getting out of hand". That does not equal to "if fewer people played DS and NOED, these perks would be balanced".

But let's not get lost about a choice of words and instead focus back on if NOED and DS should be reworked.

I would be totally ok with DS losing its auto escape and instead having a temp stun. While increasing its possible uses. (testing required)
IF (only if) Iron Grip gets back to its old status.
I would also buff Boil Over to actually make wiggling out faster.