Onryo Nerfs Need Compensation Buffs
Overall, I think the Sadako rework was well received by the community and the developers did a good job. Current Sadako is a pub-stomper that takes no skill whatsoever and felt incredibly clunky and boring to play as. The introduction of Locked in Condemned successfully incentivised Sadako players to hook Survivors instead of slugging, the improvements to Demanifested state make chase mindgames more potent and the removal of the Projection cooldown makes her much more fun and mobile. Her overall strength took a huge hit, but she's in a much healthier state where Condemned is still a huge threat/minor slowdown to Survivors that takes relative skill for the Killer to apply. I'm sure most people would rather an average Killer that takes skill and is fun to play over a strong Killer that takes no skill and is boring to play.
I certainly agree that PTB Sadako had issues. Locked in Condemned removed the need to slug from her kit, however it introduced a new scummy strategy: tunneling. The whole play-style of spamming teleport and tunneling the first Survivor who picks up a tape for a quick and easy kill early in the game was not healthy for the game nor fun for the survivors. I think nerfing it slightly is fine, same goes for nerfing the ability to spam teleport to force Condemned while keeping the no cooldown to her mobility. However, this does leave Onryo feeling weaker, when the PTB version was an average Killer at best.
In my opinion, the two nerfs to Onryo from the PTB are fine, she just needs a couple of minor compensation buffs.
- Revert the change to the animation time for inserting/retrieving tapes from a TV back to 2 seconds. It's very frustrating when Survivors remove all the Condemned they got for turning off every single TV in front of your face and there's nothing you can do about it. Going for tapes and shutting off TVs should be a risky move: you're denying Onryo of her map mobility and pressure at the cost of building up Condemned on yourself and basically screwing yourself over if she catches you. The risk part of this feels lackluster given that you can insert tapes in her face.
- If the above change makes her a bit too oppressive, then make it so inserting a tape removes all your removeable Condemned, not just 3 stacks.
- If Onryo becomes weaker because of the above change, make it so inserting a tape turns on all the TVs turned off by the Survivor that inserted the tape.
Overall, keep the two nerfs that are coming with the live patch, just compensate a bit by making tape plays riskier.
Comments
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ptb sadako takes no skill to play. you can teleport to every single television over and over and eventually everyone get condemned for doing nothing other than mindless spamming.
The 10 second cooldown nerf will just remove only brainless strategy left for her leaving with no power-level. Mori's should take skill to use and not be given for free passively. Killers should need to follow some type of strategy or series of "mini-quests" that go outside realm of hooking to make mori effective.
Sadako was as close as possible to that. She had a strategy in "Hit & Run" and a mini-quest mechanic in hitting survivors with tapes that would eventually lead to a mori after 3 or so tape breaks. Now her mini-quest is gone and hit & run is irrelevant. With all her depth gone, I never want to play Sadako ever again because achieving the mori is unsatisfying.
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I can‘t understand how you think her current live version is more than that.
Her ptb version gave the survivors the complete uper hand over condemned and there was no downside to tapes. There was no need to nerf an already weak mechanic.
Personally they should just made it without all TVs condemned or global condemned. They should have just returned all to her first version and made that the closer someone is to a tv the more condemned he gets ranging from 0,5 -1-2 stacks (20m-16m-10m-0m).
Lock in was a cool idea, but with the nerf it’s useless and the best of it got removed. I would have locked a full condemned survivor and then left him that way the whole round, now I will just mori him.
Post edited by jonifire on2 -
the global 0.75 condemn is meant to incentive picking up tapes so that mini-quest for sadako can begin. without it, you would be at 0 condemn. Admittedly, it might be a bit too strong for casual survivor player where live version does allow you to spam televisions tp and passively win. It is something i am not too fond about in live version of the killer but ptb version takes spam and dials it to only play-style.
The funny part is that only play-style doesn't even work because survivor has too much power on tapes where they can close TV and reduce condemn stacks while doing the gen objective at the same time.
Now the play-style is nerfed so entire condemn mechanic is useless.
Lock in was a cool idea, but with the nerf it’s useless and the best of it got removed. I would have locked a full condemned survivor and then left him that way the whole round, now I will just mori him.
Lock-in only promotes tunneling, there is already enough of that in the game without adding extra incentives, bad idea and defeats purpose of mori.
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I actually liked the ptb version, but with that nerfs I am just waiting for her 3rd rework.
In the end the lock in tunneling makes no sense. When they get unhooked, they got no new stacks and if she does tunnel, you won‘t get value from the condemned mori. In that case they just tunnel and the lock in does not make any difference.
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I still can't understand how anyone thinks PTB Sadako could effectively 'spam' teleport when a tape could be grabbed before she could teleport a second time. It was the easiest, least threatening counterplay because the tapes gave you no downsides. Unless you greed gens and ignore the TVs, there was no real issue with spam and if you're active with TVs you could suppress her power pretty easily for a long time.
You could still make an argument for lock-on tunneling, even though I personally think the system in the PTB rewards spreading hooks and condemned stacks were healthier since Sadako can't tunnel effectively due to strong tiles and had a strong counterplay to stop having tons of stacks before being hooked, but the spam argument is simply due to survivors refusing to participate in the killer's power and honestly, they deserve the L if they sit there and get maxed out stacks. Especially since the active TVs are highlighted when you're in range.
All the 10 second cooldown will do is make it impossible to gather stacks and make it a useless pressure tool against survivors who take the 2 seconds to run over and grab a tape.
Post edited by ChaosWam on3 -
I'm very confused. As someone who played the PTB, once survivors learned and did the counterplay, it was very easy for them to avoid condemn and teleport spam was useless.
I'm okay with a 10sec cool-down if BHVR feels its necessary but they need to buff other aspects of her kit in response. Right now her condemn is in its weakest form yet while survivors have the strongest and easier counterplay to her yet. They can easily turn off TVs to avoid condemn at low risk while also denying her mobility.
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read my 2nd post that i respond onto Jonifire which talks about how counter-play is so strong that it makes mechanic almost irrelevant when survivor plays at good-level and there is no input from killer to minimize/prevent the tapes effectiveness.
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