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Generator System Feedback
Comments
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Good overall, healthy.
The problem is that the perk "Surge"sometimes make some gens hit the regression cap without actually "3-genning".
This cap should only applies after 1 gen left to repair OR should have a bigger number of events to trigger.
Healthiest suggestion : 12 events before generator is blocked would be better.
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Having the 8 regression events per gen be reset with every hook would go a long way in having the 3 gen system not affect normal gameplay.
The obnoxious 3 gen playstyle that people complain about usually have one thing in common: A lack of hooks. If the Killer is hooking Survivors, they are progressing the game and putting Survivors closer to death.
I would even argue the cap of 8 regression events could be lowered to 6 as long as they reset with every hook. That would actually target Killers who just injure and kick gens all day. Players who run multiple gen regression perks would be incentivized to hook Survivors rather than leave them slugged.
This simple fix would resolve all the complaints of gen kick/regression perks hitting the cap even though the players using said perks were not enforcing a 3 gen 1 hour scenario.
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I'd be completely okay with it going to 6 if it reset per hook. There's only a finite amount of hooks possible, so this would essentially punish people who just sit on the gens and refuse to actually chase and hook, while letting killers who play as intended and chase\hook people to be unaffected.
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While I'm happy gen tapping got nerfed because it was time consuming for killer and easy for survivors to counter the kick, there is still a major problem :
When a survivor leaves a generator, if a skill check event starts, it makes you automatically fail and you got a 10 % penalty.
Edit : Suggestion : when you stop repairing a generator, the skill check event appears on your screen (like overcharge).
This would be a great QoL for all survivors. They shouldn't get a huge penalty like this just because of RNG.
Post edited by Adrien on1 -
Having the 8 regression events per gen be reset with every hook would go a long way in having the 3 gen system not affect normal gameplay.
I really like the idea of reseting on hooking a survivor...
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I agree, definitely should only count if there is only 1 gen left needed to repair.
The visual warning shouldn’t happen until you have 3 remaining kicks on it.
Remove the audio of the entity blocking the gen.
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I think it's in a good spot. - Only issue may be Jolt/Surge depending on the map and where you end up in chase. - But making Jolt only affect gens with 10% progress or more seems like an easy fix for that one.
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not really, range is already limiting aspect for this perk. Making it so gens with less than 10% progress won't explode at all is still quite a big nerf in my opinion and this 3-gen feature will be another nerf staying.
Jolt and Eruption are just gone with this update in my opinion. Same for most gen kicking perks, except for pop probably.
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Pop has essentially been removed from the game until they fix survivors constantly 4% then restarting so that its never in a kickable state.
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True, thing is same can be said about other gen kick perks, but in those instances where you can use those perks, pop has way bigger impact than any other gen kicking perk. That's why it is only I would consider valid, but I would probably avoid any gen kicking perk now and just go for blocking gens / pain res.
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BHVR, here's yet another match where me, playing a weak m1 killer, lost the match because of the complete inability to regress key gens in the endgame despite only running a SINGLE (and weakest) regression perk and not remotely camping 3 gens - especially since the beginning of the match. I'm clearly doing full chases everywhere, downing, and hooking. How the heck do you guys expect m1 killers to be even remotely playable in this state? This is getting beyond frustrating. It would be even worst if I used eruption or info kicking perks like nowhere to hide.
BHVR, you're statement that this will ONLY happen to people who just sit and camp at the beginning of the game and that it is so incredibly unlikely that 8 regression events would ever possibly affect normal gameplay, and that "we see everything and have all the numbers" is completely off base. Definitely missed the mark.
Post edited by RpTheHotrod on5 -
I am literally getting jump scared by the animation and sound FX as Killer.
Please consider lowering or altogether removing that awful sound when the spikes appear.
I play with headphones on as Killer and need the volume up to listen for Survivors, crows, repairs, ect. This is becoming a huge distraction.
For clarity: I have no objection to the system itself, just the completely unnecessary animation and sound FX.
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Just a quick question. Wouldn't it just be easier to set Tile Generation algo. to prevent "3 gen" grouping. But buff Control perks for killers? by an additional 5-8% so 3-gen lock meta strat doesn't have to be a thing?
Curious.
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Spreading out generators enough that 3-genning can't happen is impossible without making maps larger. It's a good thought, but it wouldn't work.
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8 kicks is bs. Only like 30% of the matches get drawn out. The other 70% the survivors will have various totems a medic and multiple loopers cruising to a easy victory, all 4 alive with 1 gen left while you get ran in circles by body blockers. Literally if you're a fair killer or run hex devour hope this change would definitely screw you. Which I am both. I hook and kick a gen Everytime most of the time I just hit and kick a gen. Just imagine being fair with divvying up the killing just for the 4 remaining survivors to all heal and jump on the last 2 gens.... And you can't even slow down the gens :||||||||||||||| now you gotta chase and catch a healthy person twice meanwhile your backdoors getting blown off because they finish the other gens and head for the exit gate before you could even catch the 1 WHOSE OBJECTIVE IT WAS TO BUY TIME IN THE FIRST PLACE! sure, seems like a great idea except for the fact that survs still curb-stomp killers just because it takes forever to catch skilled survivors. Literally 1 really good guy and a bunch of gen-focused noobs can cook any killer. Horrible idea, I see this game as a movie. The killers and survivors battle the whole movie so the whole match of dbd should be a constant tug of war.
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I'm liking the new changes. I haven't really encountered people 4s repairing gens to keep regression on them, or if I have it's made them easy targets.
Devs could make gen kicking perks allow regressing generators to be kicked without causing additional damage, but just activating kick perks. Even better would be that survivors lose repair progress if they stop repairing before fixing regression. <- take away the added kick regression and represent it here.
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Survivors: *Whine about 3 Gens they put themselves in*
BHVR: Let's add the 15th handholding mechanic for Survivors!
Give it another year; Survivors that are 'tunneled' will be able to punch the Killer in the neck, stunning them for 20 minutes. Survivors will get extra BP if they t-bag in front of the stunned Killer. And all gens will self-repair at 50% increased speed.
If Killers 'slug' for more than 3 seconds (Usually because someone with a flashlight is nearby); Survivors will just get god-mode and flight, and instant-pop any generator within 200 meters of them.
Every time Survivors mald; BHVR adds yet another way to prevent them from losing. Yet every time Killers speak up, Survivors scream that the game 'Has been Killer-sided for too long'. 🙃
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BHVR, just want to make sure, are y'all still keeping tabs on this feedback thread? Trying to at least be helpful by providing video of matches where this is affecting match results in non-3 gen camping situations.
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The "anti tri gen system" wouldnt need exist if the Skull Merchant got a decent rework. She is the real problem about long matches or tri gen, and, STILL DEFENDING TRI GEN AFTER THIS SYSTEM.
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Honestly, please keep posting those matches (especially those while playing weaker Killers to really drive the point home) because eventually they'll come across it somehow anyway (maybe a repost in another thread by someone else that sees the issue or simply through sheer luck) and maybe they'll consider making the system only trigger at 3-gens (or maybe at 4 gens at the very least since someone pointed out that it's not that rare to get some nasty map generation and get some rough setups).
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The changes are good, but they are useless when the gens spawn so bad. On nearly every map the game starts with either two 3 gen or a 4 gen nowqadays. I also saw a 5 Gen as killer or with deja vu on survivor. The spawns are broken. That should be fixed.
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Personally, I would've preferred just adding another generator, or tweaking the gen spawn points to be farther apart, or having a default minimum distance radius between each. Unfortunately with the maps getting smaller, I know that may not be an option.
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I can't lie. I HATE this change. first off, I want to make a known that I've never experienced a drawn-out match due to a three gen scenario. I understand that the three gen playstyle does exist, it's just not something I've encountered in my 800 hours.
I Play both killer and survivor fyi. I prefer playing killer, but always play wherever the blood point bonus is. And due to killer gameplay becoming increasingly frustrating, I believe my hours reflect that I play more survivor than killer. Also want to note that I own every character in the game and am currently working on my last unprestiged character.
So I've had my generators blocked while playing as killer quite often. My typical builds include nowhere to hide and jolt or pain resonance. However the build that this is happening to me most on is my pyramid Head build, which includes nowhere to hide and trail of torment, fear monger, and nurses calling.
If it is truly your intention to fix long drawn out games due to killers abusing a 3 gen play style, I don't understand why you don't approach the problem as you did with the anti-face camp bar. You made it clear several times that proxy camping was viable and had no intentions on prohibiting that with a new mechanic. You stated the change was only to address face camping. I believe your changes in that respect were fair. Although I have accidentally triggered the anti-face camp bar ( several times in midwich walking down hallways), these instances are outliers in my overall experience. I cannot say the same for the new generator system.
If we were to apply that same logic to the new generator system, I believe it's obvious that the generator kick limit should only kick in at a certain point in the match, when a certain number of generators have been completed ( perhaps 3 or 4).I see many others suggesting and calling for this change and it is my sincere hope that you take it into consideration, because many killers including myself are reporting our normal gameplay be affected by this new change.
I can't express how bad it feels to have a generator blocked when I know for a fact it's not my intention to "3 gen" or stall out a game. Even when there is only one generator left, I always actively take chase, yet I'm still having generators blocked. Protecting generators has always been one of the killers objectives, so it's very disheartening to be punished for it.
I have even been getting gen blocked mid game. It's been happening most often in the central and heavily contested,important generators. A few that come to mind are the lodge generator in Ormond, and the main hall gen in rpd . I've also had gens blocked in the game when running jolt.
At the very least I believe you should increase the regression limit ( perhaps 12) or only count kicks instead of regression events that are tied to a perk. As someone who loves nowhere to hide, My favorite perk has been gutted.
Something else that NEEDS to be addressed is the fact that survivors are able to repair a regressing generator to completion without ever triggering the 5% threshold. This effectively takes away one of my objectives, not to mention make my perks completely unusable.
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Just FYI, the “repair for less than 5% and let go to prevent the killer from kicking the gen again” thing doesn't work anymore. It wasn't in the patch notes but that was fixed in the 7.5.1 hotfix the other day.
If survivors try to do that now, the repair threshold to stop regression doesn’t continuously keep going up anymore. It can move down with regression, but it doesn’t go up, so they can’t make more than 5% of repairs without stopping the regression. So that is no longer an issue.
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Good to hear! Will have to test that, for sure.
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This is doing absolutely nothing to stop 3 gen. I am in a match with a Skull Merchant who is holding it down with her drones without kickg a gen amd chasing us off. Move the gens around. If a 3 gen happens like the Cage of Attonmemt at 1 gen left. She is forcing us to wait til the server kicks us out.
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How exactly she keep regressing gens without kicking them?
So far seems like you just don't know how to deal with 3-gen at all.
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Trying to break a 3 gen in solo queue is still awful.
There's no guarantee you will get 4 survivors who can loop well. So survivors that go down in about 20 seconds provide very little value to their team. Likely costing you more gen progress than you can gain whilst they are looping.
Eventually gens will be in dead zones, meaning even good survivors will go down fast.
There's always a chance that nobody on the team will have gen perks or good toolboxes.
Information killers like Doctor make it almost impossible to stealth. Combine that with dead zones and players go down even faster.
Beating a 3 gen requires coordination and in solo you don't have that.
Killers can still drag a match out well over 30 minutes and still not reach the 8 regression event limit.
This solution really only addressed the 1 hour gen stalemate. Solo queue still needs help to counter this strategy. Maybe giving us something like Alert, but for generators could help. So survivors who can't coordinate can still see where the killer is patrolling the gens. Maybe show the last 3 generators' auras after a while? I don't know. But we need something.
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Just held a 3 gen on Dead Dawg as Trapper. The map spawned 4 gens near the gallows with basement in shack. The Survivors tried to finish the gallows gen initially but a few Pain Reso and Pop kicks convinced them to do the other gens.
11 hooks + 4k at 1 gen left. Only my gallows gen got entity blocked.
I guess the 3 gen system is working perfectly well huh
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I would just give the chance to still hit the skillcheck. Similar if you tap a Gen with Overcharge, the skillcheck remains visible so you can hit it.
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No.
The whole point of the RNG is that it can screw Survivors if a Killer forces them off. It should not be removed just because Survivors think nothing in the game should ever be a threat to them.
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You are cherry picking the situation when this can occur. This mechanic gives free 10% regression for the killer, even if they don't do anything for it. It's literally because when you stop repairing to heal a teammate/go for the unhook that the prompt will consider this a failed skill check. This is a stupid mechanic that punishes survivor for being unlucky. Yes if we address the problem we will remove the failed skill check due to the direct pressure applied by the killer. With the recent changes on the gen kicking I think it's not a big deal.
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Ok thank you, a lot of people suggested this to me also on Reddit, I will update my original post to make it the main feature.
It seems like a much better idea to discourage baby survivors to let go on the gen when a skill check event occur.
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Or, instead of taking away a mechanic because Survivors are unhappy they can fail; You learn to hit a skillcheck before leaving a gen? 😁
Because they never happen back-to-back without a Killer perk being involved.
You're basically saying 'Bad luck is bad for Survivors. Who cares how it affects Killers.'
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I think the system is working fine. If you're still struggling with getting 3genned as a survivor, I'd say you're doing something wrong:
- Try running deja vu. Try to knock out the gens that are closer to the middle of the map, or the middle one of the highlighted. As you keep doing this, risk of 3gen decreases.
- Otherwise, experience with the maps and map sense can help you determine which gens you should probably try focusing on.
- Save your toolboxes for the LAST GENS, don't waste them on the first gen you see.
- If in a 3gen scenario, just aim for making the gen stop regressing. Killer will have to waste another kick on it after that.
- Do other gens. The killer will probably start getting in the mindset of everyone focusing on one particular generator if they see survivor hovering around it and trying to repair it all the time. However, this can be faked simply by making it not regress anymore, and you could start working on other generators.
I know the 3gen scenario still isn't easy to deal with, but it's one of those problems that's far easier to prevent than it is to cure.
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While the advices themselves are sound and effective (Survivors should try to focus on center gens early), one of them also show the flaw in the system itself;
The mindset of "everyone focusing on one particular generator" comes from somewhere. It comes from the fact that, like a few people already showed and lots of people say, it's not rare to end up in a situation where one of the gens is almost out of regression events by the end because Survivors tried to do specific gens (like they should do as it's part of Survivor gameplay, it's the reason Déjà Vu exists, to make this part easier) and they need to prioritize that gen, making the endgame harder and more stressful for the Killer even if they never intended to 3-gen. This is especially hard on slower/weaker/M1 Killers that can't zip around the map and/or end chases in 10 seconds. S-tier Killers don't really care about the system in the first place since gen-regression outside of Pop/Pain Res was never really needed outside of extreme situations against insane squads.
When a Killer seemingly refuses to kick a gen despite it having high progress, I've seen teammates purposefully leaving that gen for the end knowing it's a free W at the end. That shouldn't be a thing.
Honestly, a 3-gen situation should be difficult to deal with but not impossible (the system does actually accomplish that) but the system should only be active at the end to only deal with endless games (the real issue) instead of punishing gen-defense during the whole game and deleting many perks.
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They should make the end game collapse slowly shorten anytime no one is working on a gen when only 1 is left to go. If it gets down to 1/8 max collapse time, survivor auras are revealed to the killer anytime they have not worked on a gen in the last 40 seconds and everyone is broken.
It's not killers that drag out 3 gens. If survivors can't get a 3 gen done in 5 minutes, they've already lost.
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Or if we want to be more reasonable, they could just remove the regress event cap on the gold gens. They're usually central and important to defend.
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After some time playing with Sadako, my gens got blocked a lot of times. It’s normal for a killer to kick the gens you teleported to, when no one is there. I also play with jolt, which makes reaching the limit easy. The system is absolutely impacting normal gameplay and does not target hard 3 geners. At least make jolt count as a half regression event and that kicking a gen under 15% doesn‘t takes your regression events away.
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That's a good suggestion - removing regression charges from gens under a certain precentage of repair progress.
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ULTRA THIS
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Does this system only work with nearby generators or is it independent of your location?
I asked why yesterday an killer regress a generator more than 10x. Yes, I did. Pain Resonance 2x,Pop Goes the Weasel 3x, Kicks 6x times.
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Pain Resonance 2x,Pop Goes the Weasel 3x, Kicks 6x times.
and all of that was into a single generator?
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8 isn't enough. I wad basically manipulated into kicking it 8 times amd they got the last gen done. I want a clear indication of when I'm close to blocking it not the spikes. It either needs to be more or reset the counter for each gen popped or something.
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Yes
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Well, it's getting unpinned....
Foolish of me as it sounds, I'll try to keep hoping enough people make enough sound to make the system only activate during the last gen. Keeping hope that only endless 3-gen games are affected and not gen defense in general.
Post edited by Skillfulstone on3
