Generator System Feedback
Comments
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At first I was quite surprised devs decided to deal with "3-gens", when it was absolutely acceptable tactic, and which I used a lot, especially when doing adepts (old ones). But I don't remember when I kicked gens more than 8 times...
Now, every damaged generator by any means, will be destroyed to 0 almost guaranteed, unless killer go to other side of the map. So in almost every match every killer-player just effortlessly tunnel and camp. That much tunneling I've seen only when Dead Hard and DS were nerfed the first time.
Very nice indeed. Very fun. Now it's even more genrush and more tunneling.
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I think this needs to just be changed for when there are 3 gens left...
It too much impacts perks like No Where To Hide and Surge which are already very weak perks.
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Why not make the gens change their positions ech other after a mount of time. Starting this feature when 4 gens already done? For example. U have 3 gen, if anybody work in that gen, the gen stays there, but, every i dont know, 2,3 minutes, where nobody is touching, every gen without anybody working swap their positions with the other gens, included completed gens. This method will destroy tri gen because could put 1 gen in the otherside of map. But i sustend my real opinion. Give a decent change to Skull Merchant and the peace will be restore.
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And screw over weak m1 killers who literally can't afford to travel across the Alps to get to said Gens. The last thing we need is to make the weakest killers even weaker. These 3 gen problems need to be addresses just on the killers who are causing those problems. They shouldn't nerf all killers across the board.
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The killer is at a disadvantage towards the end of the game, so tunneling is bound to increase, but the management doesn't understand that.
Post edited by Rizzo on6 -
Examples of streamers that have affected normal gameplay
5:15〜
This Gen is located adjacent to a window frame and one very strong board, and as a survivor, I wanted to fix it early and utilize it in the chase, so the killer tried to stop it and was already locked in early in the match. Is this Killer's fault for bringing in the Irruption?
PS: At the start of this match, there is a bug where the second slot of the killer's add-on comes off if not replaced before the match starts. There are also scattered survivor footprints that seem to have become even more scattered since the latest patch.
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I'd like to echo this.
I'm finding the animation and sound distracting when approaching the area of the generator.
A lot of times I want to initiate a chase but walking by the gen and the visual effect and sound distract me and I lose chase.
As you can see below, I'm not even close enough for a kick and really don't need this at the moment. I think it should only be when there are 3 generators remaining.
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I don't play any more, but reading this thread just screams solution that nobody mentioned and quite frankly I wonder why that is.
No killer has problem with the limitation if he does not bring regression perk OR if he does not excessively 3gens. So why do perk regressions count toward the limit? Make it so that only kicks count towards regression events
(and you can even lower the number of required events to 6 and it still should not be problem - I am not saying you should - as I said I am not playing the game any more so I have no idea in practical terms, but it seems to me 6 should be enough in this case. At least I never kicked single gen more then 4 times when playing killer for as long as I can remember, but it's true I never played chess merchant or other kicking killers).
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AND it should still allow a kick after the 6 but do no kick damage so they can still use kicking non-regression perks (though trail of torment will still be perma-disabled...)
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the 3gen system is good. i don't think i've had a single gen blocked by it since the update and i haven't changed how i play. good job bhvr !
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The generator at the center of map become a lot easier to be repaired.
It was blocking me while there were actually 5-6 generators left on the map, which is not reasonable.
Survivors can abuse this mechanism by only repairing 5% to stop the regression and wait my next kick until it is blocked.
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Same issue that I talked about in the PTB. Survivors just pile onto the center gens which causes 8 regression events to happen by the middle of the match, all while there are plenty of other gens available. This essentially guarantees the middle gens to be completed leaving the last 3 gens to be extremely far from each other which is absolutely terrible for weak m1 killers with no map traversal. This whole thing makes weak killers even weaker.
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I don't like the visuals or sounds of the warning you get when a generator is running out of regression events. Can't we just make the generators change aura color or something? It wouldn't hurt anyone to implement a new aura color like purple to represent it.
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The sound effect when you kick gens is really annoying. Please remove it.
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The visual/sound effects around the generators to warn you about regression events I feel like start appearing way too early and the sound is kind of loud.
Other than that and the issue I mentioned in my previous post regarding survivors being able to prevent the killer from kicking a gen (which should be addressed), I think the system is fine. I don't 3 gen and have not ever reached 8 regression events on 1 gen. And the buffs to regression are nice, kicking a generator actually feels like it's worth it in normal gameplay now without gen-kicking perks, both because of the 5% and the gen-tapping removal. I have definitely noticed a difference on both sides with this.
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This IS VERY MUCH SO Affecting Normal Gameplay... Just using Surge alone activates this new system even when not even close to 3 genning, and it's very sad if you wanted to use a perk like No Where To Hide.
Surge And the After Regression Event From Eruption, need to not count towards this regression event. It stacks up to quickly and is ENTIRELY on the survivors fault if this perk activates because there is counter play of running away from the gens before going down, and hoping into a locker (Surge Related of course, which is why the kick for Eruption should still count).
I have spoken with many other people and they basically all say the same thing, Don't make surge count towards the regression event.
Alongside this make the regression event go up to 10-12 stacks and I believe the system is perfect.
Right now it's really flawed.
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Either don't count perk effects, or make it work only when there is 1 gen left.
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https://youtu.be/mmYAVVAp9aE?si=TPq0K_MCGcpTZ9NZ
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My initial feedback (reposted from another discussion):
I experienced the new anti 3 gen feature in action yesterday (a Legion match on RPD). The Legion are a great killer to test this feature out because forcing Survivors to be near to each other by holding a 3 gen and winning the battle of attrition is really the only thing they excel at (they have several add-ons to help with this: Filthy Blade, Fuming Mixtape and Frank's Mixtape). They are a very weak Killer, otherwise.
RPD is (or at least used to be) a very good map for Legion. It's relatively small and often spawns close together and easy to defend gens. In this match, I got two in the main hall and a couple in nearby rooms.
This was a close game against a flashlight squad that could have gone either way. They played exactly as you might have expected, making far too many flashlight/sabo/body blocking attempts and it cost them the win. I think I would have lost against a more gen focused team. They had 2 gens almost ready to pop and as you can see from this image, I had already burned through all my regression events on this gen (luckily I had secured my first kill just in time):
Here's what I've learned so far:
- The 3 genning strat has definitely been nerfed. But it's still possible to defend a 3 gen even if you can't regress a gen anymore.
- It feels more important than ever to secure an early kill, now that I know I won't be able to fallback on defending a 3 gen situation.
- Surge has been nerfed with this update. Hitting multiple gens in a small area is what it does best, but maybe not so much now. It was scary how quickly it burned through all my regression events on a gen. I'll probably keep using it, but I think plenty of other Killers will opt more for passive slowdown or gen blocking now.
- It has impacted "normal" Killer game play for me. This time I won, but I might have to rethink my strategy if I start losing games. Overall, I'd say it's a nerf to Killer (with gen tapping gone and extra regression as a fair compensation).
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This system was supposed to be an "anti-3-gen" mechanic that did not impact normal gameplay. I am having gens be blocked at complete other sides of the map from each other, as far from a 3-gen as you can physically get. I am having gens blocked in the middle gen when survivors are aggressively focusing it. The mechanic is impacting normal gameplay, limiting perk variety, limiting the killer's ability to control high traffic gens, and empowering survivors when they play badly.
It doesn't even hurt the target audience much. I have had matches as survivor where the killers will still hard 3-gen, but the anti-tapping combined with certain killer powers that keep you occupied still cause a painful game.
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I know people have mentioned it here before, but this new "regressing the gen 8 times blocks it" should only be activated once there are 3 gens left. It shouldn't be activated during normal game play. This would solve the 3 gen holding the game hostage problem but wouldn't feel like you're being punished as killer doing your normal objective of making sure gens are not getting done as they are still spread out on the map.
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BHVR, are yall keeping tabs on this thread? This is getting incredibly frustrating as a killer who doesn't even 3 gen. I mainly only focus on the underdog killers like ghostie, Myers, pig, and such. Game has gone to fun to incredibly stressful. I'm having a hard time even talking myself into playing killer, now. The weaker m1 killers are excessively having to suffer through this update even without a 3 gen situation. On top of that, kick perks have been removed from the game - we told y'all about survivors stopping repairs for a split second at the 4 second mark to prevent kicks from ever happening the entire match and it still went live. Come on. Is this seriously the future for the weak killers moving forward? This absolutely is affecting normal matches and it simply sucks - especially for killers who cannot afford to slowly make their way to extremely far away gens or when survivors just focus on center gens.
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I really hope they do. I saw a streamer get annoyed because he wasn't trying to three gen at all. He had surge/jolt and when there were 6 gens left - the middle gen got blocked for him after he did a normal kick on it. His jolt must of happened 7 times before that. Two of those downs that were caused by jolt got flashlight saved. That's why it had so many "kicks"/"jolt downs" on it. He was being punished for no reason so they got the middle gen easily which is one of the most important gens to complete as survivor. I get what the developers were going for but this was so poorly executed.
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If it is determined that gens are getting blocked just by engaging in general gameplay, then it is reasonable that it should only be active during the last 3 gens. However as a trade off for this, it is also very reasonable that they re-add gen tapping to the game.
These 2 features were clearly designed to work together. The removal of gen tapping making it harder for them to stop regression in your face, leading to additional gen regression events when the killer has to kick it later. It exists to make it fair for killers so survivors can't abuse the 8 event limit. However if this feature only applies during the last 3 gens, then gen tapping should come back. I think between 8 or 12 regression events on the last 3 gens even if survivors can gen tap is reasonable.
To not make both of these changes at the same time would be shifting the balance around more than the devs are intending.
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Whether it's 6 or 8 or 12 regression events, if there is any limit on regression then gen-tapping (as it was before) can't be a thing.
Who cares if it only works in the end if Survivors can instantly negate one of your limited regression events? If all 4 Survivors (or 3) are alive it won't change a thing for weaker/M1 Killers that simply don't have the means to efficiently stop 2 Survivors from roaming around one gen and tapping the gen everytime the Killer goes after one.
The system that's currently in place, if it only activated during the last gen, would be much better as it would prevent 40+ minutes matches without killing perk and Killer variety and viability.
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Kinda an issue is this gen taping feature back fired and made gen kicking perks even worse. I really don't mind full removal of this feature.
Many survivors already found out, it is possible to work on gen, but never stop it from regressing -> killer can't kick it anymore.
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I still think my idea for anti three gen is the fairest.
After enough regression events the gens need less and less time to repair (like with brand new part) until it reaches a maxed point (60s).
This would allow gen perks to work without a limit and it would make breaking a 3 gen a lot easier and still allow to defend them.
They could also make that it only triggers after a certain time or something and if this isn‘t enough, then they could also make that the gen blocks after more regression or some time.
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Oh I agree, I meant all of what the new gen update does - including gen tapping.
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Yeah this entire concept is just bricked. Just revert the whole freaking thing entirely or only have it affect kicks ONLY, or have it only work once only 3 gens are left and they are in close proximity. This is freaking awful.
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Because gen kicking was pointless unless you had gen kicking perks?
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This video I made covers why this System needs changes, Surge is absolutely ruined with this update and makes the mid gen even easier for survivors to complete because you can't regress it further.
I shouldn't be getting punished for chasing survivors and getting downs, which is exactly the opposite of sitting at a 3 gen.
I think surge needs to not count towards this event, and the second explosion of Eruption.
And also increase the limit to 12 regression events
OR just do what everyone is saying
and have it so it only kicks in when there is 3 gens left! Having it for every gen is just lazy design when the problem isn't defending each gen, it's just defending the 3 closest. Stop punishing killers for playing the game.
This does affect regular gameplay.
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I wanted to share that, personally, I haven't encountered any issues with the new 8-regression event system; it appears to be functioning well. However, I've noticed that the Eruption perk seems less appealing now as it triggers two events, affecting its synergy with other perks that rely on generator kicks.
I believe this new system is a win for both sides in general.
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I wouldn't say the removal of all kick gen perks from the game is a win. Survivors just 4% then release then repair again constantly to keep gens regressing at all times if they ever leave so gens can never get popped and such.
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When you mention 'the removal of ALL kick gen perks' could you provide more details or elaborate on how those perks are being removed or made obsolete? I'd appreciate a bit more clarity on this. Thanks.
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Sure thing. You cannot kick a regressing gen. Since survivors now have complete control over if a gen regresses or not when repairing, they repair the gen to 4% then stop for a split second then begin repairs again. This resets their progress towards the 5% rule where a gen stops regressing after letting go. This means that survivors can force a gen to ALWAYS regress once they leave the generator. This effectively prevents the killer from ever being able to kick the gen for the entire match meaning any kick perks are impossible to use.
So, if you know a killer has pop goes the weasel, you can simply repair to 4%, stop, repair to 4%, stop, and repeat. If the killer ever chases you off, the gen immediately begins to regress, so the killer can never kick it to utilize the pop. If you know the killer isnt using kick gens, then just repair normally. Entirely in the survivors' hands.
We all told BHVR that this was an issue in the PTB, but it was disregarded, so BHVR knowingly put this in as a survivor tactic meaning any survivor teams using it have entirely eliminated any kick perks in the match. Using this tactic comes at a cost of gens regressing if not repairing them, but depending on the kick perks, it is extremely worth it - being able to eliminate pop alone is worth it. It also eliminates trail of torment, Dragon's Grip, eruption, machine learning, and other kick related perks. What's crazy is that this is basekit for survivors, so no need to bring a perk to counter all those killer perks (like distortion does, for example). Any game, survivors on demand can eliminate a host of killer perks from ever being used for the entirety of the match.
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It's not even limited to just that oversight.
Limiting the number of kicks (plus whatever perk the Killer could bring) effectively makes perks like Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip and Trail of Torment a limited ressource despite not being regression perks.
Every time the Killer would kick a gen in order to gain stealth or take the gamble that a Survivor is close enough to see their aura (assuming they are not running OTR or Distortion) then they have to consider if it's even worth it since it will take 1/8th of their total regression events which can be vital later on.
If too many kicks/events are used mid-game, it's not uncommon that at least one of the last gens is almost out of regression events, making the 5th gen very hard to defend since (especially for slower/weaker/M1 Killers that can't afford to go too far) they have to prioritize the defense of that particular gen.
The idea behind the system is decent but it kills perks and Killer variety and viability as well as essentially punishing Killers for defending the gens mid-game or using certain perks. If at least it only activated during the last gen then it would be actually an Anti-3-gen system.
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I'm a Japanese player (so I use a translator, so my English may not be natural), but most of the Japanese dbd community thinks this system is very inconvenient and boring.
As other players have already mentioned, just using perks like Surge and Eruption can unintentionally max out the number of times you can kick a generator. This makes the existence of the perk, which delays the repair of the generator and buys time for the survivors to escape, almost meaningless, and I think it has a negative impact on normal play.
It is true that it is not desirable to fight like Skull Merchant, which does not chase survivors and just delays the generator and harasses the survivors, but many of the delay perks require the survivor to be hung from a hook, In the first place, the perk itself has a limited number of activations, so I don't think it can be a factor in such tactics. The delay effect from the perk should be modified so that it is not included in the maximum number of generator kicks.
Please improve the way you play Killer so it doesn't limit you too much, it's sad to see so many dbd players leaving this game because of this system :(
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I understand your point now, and personally, I haven't experienced this yet. I'd like to get your perspective on how efficient you believe this strategy would be for Survivors. While it might annoy the Killer, constantly engaging in such actions could potentially waste a significant amount of your team's time as that annoying Survivor. I believe it could potentially become a lot easier for me to win such a game. I could strategically use perks like Pop or my other gen-perks on the generators they're actively trying to complete, and not the one the annoying survivor is trying to fake regress to get on my nerves with. What is your assessment of that perspective?
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potentially waste a significant amount of your team's time
Way less than Pop is going to.
What is your assessment of that perspective?
It's better to distance from those perks until this is fixed and simply use base kit value of kicks. Some survivors will try this just to annoy killer, where it is free value for you at that point, because it doesn't deny any of your perks.
This is going to be bigger issue, when they nerf Grim Embrace and Ultimate Weapon.
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We're not talking about one-off survivors, we're talking about teams who apply it. Even if there is a single survivor using it though, that's still them denying you the ability to use kicks on that gen so as long as they are the ones working on it. If the other 3 survivors want to essentially throw the game by allowing you to pop, of course you're not going to have any issues. We're not talking about game-throwers.
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It feels like and it IS a killer buff. As BHVR mentioned it rarely reaches 8 regression events, so basically free 2.5% more for a kick. Nothing major, but we should call things their names.
Corrupt intervention is the main 3 gen enabler. It forces survivors to cluster repair gens in the beginning of the match. There is no way around it because its effect is so long.
Solution 1- make corrupt intervention block random gens.
solution 2- kill this perk and give corrupt 15 sec basekit, so killers have some time to get a grasp of the map but not too much to force SoloQ to repair gens ina cluster.
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Knight's summons need a buff from now. Killer had 2.5 % per kick, his summons 5%. Now we have 5% in core but nothing changed in ability. Also still waitin' for map of the realm in base kit.
#BuffTarhos
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Solution 1- make corrupt intervention block random gens.
Then the perk is useless. The purpose of this perk is to get survivors to you and make it harder to spread on gens. Random generators blocked is beyond useless.
solution 2- kill this perk and give corrupt 15 sec basekit, so killers have some time to get a grasp of the map but not too much to force SoloQ to repair gens ina cluster.
15 seconds is irelavant as basekit. Why not just wait it out every game?
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I've played a bunch of games with the new system now and one thing I would to see better done is the audio feedback warning. When using perks like surge or painres, it's normal to hear the warning sound but it's not immediately obvious how many stacks they're at. The sound from the fourth kick to the eighth kick is the same. It would be nice to be able to tell the difference just by the audio alone of how close a generator is to being blocked.
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This.
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System works fine at combating what it's intended to address and the buffs to kick/regression feels great, although I do have two things to add.
- Sound and visual warning shouldn't apply till you kick the gen the 6th time. It's distracting, misleading and it's rather unclear visually and audio wise how close the gen is to being blocked. 6th time should apply it so it can serve as a "3 strikes" you're out type deal like someone else mentioned.
- Surge and Eruption are pretty negatively affected by these changes as they blow through your stacks very quickly for not much, so I'd change the way regression events work when perks/add ons apply them. My suggestion would be that any damage from a perk that does 10% or less damage only counts as half a regression event, while anything over counts as a full regression event. Or alternatively, just buff Surge and Eruption to be a little stronger since using up your regression events for 8% and 10% respectively is just not worth it for most players if you don't have the ability to spam them like before. The only times I've hit the gen limit without holding a 3 gen has been when I'm running either of these two perks.
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Wait out what? 2 minutes? You must be trolling
15 sec is enough for numerous aura/scream perks to reveal unsuspecting victims. Without corrupt change it is just a bad form to blame survivors for 3 gen especially in soloq.
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Where did you get 2 minutes? I have never said it should be fully basekit.
Just saying 15 seconds is useless. Most of the times you don't start next to the gen as survivor, so often you would get to gen like 5 seconds left on corrupt? Or whole group can just go hide even if it was a minute.
Corrupt basekit is not really going to work, if you play against it every time. It's not really hard to counter, at least for SWF. So what is point of change that will be either useless, or issue only for soloQ?
aura/scream perks to reveal unsuspecting victims
How exactly that changes anything? Before I even get to chase corrupt is done and what perks?
Ultimate weapon, which is getting nerf this year?
Lethal Pursuer, which is weaker Corrupt for most killers?
Whispers, which is kinda weak on most killers?
Without corrupt change it is just a bad form to blame survivors for 3 gen especially in soloq
You know where those blocked gens are, corrupt ends in two minutes or first down. It's not really difficult to think about finishing gen there next... I just see excuses. Everyone knows gens there are not finished and they are close to eachother. So just do it as soon corrupt ends.
3-gen is mostly gone anyway, because of current patch.
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I am not sure if you understood the gist of my comment. It was about tackling 3 gen at its most common source. Yes, it will force killers to adapt, but current perks offer variety of strong options.
Ultimate weapon nerf is a speculation. Lethal is a great perk if paired with any other aura reading.
Corrupt cant be countered by SWF, blocked gen is a blocked gen, and 4 other gens nearby is what you must work with. In a typical scenario 2-3 nearby gens will be worked on. And no they cant wait it out, because at current pace of the game against A and S tier killers it is not an option.
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I am not sure if you understood the gist of my comment.
I don't really care about your reasons for those changes. I am just saying those changes make that perk absolutely garbage and 15 seconds corrupt is useless.
Corrupt is not main reason for 3-gen. I have yet to see 3-gening killer using corrupt. Maps are reason for 3-gens, not a perk...
and 3-gen is gone anyway, so I have no idea why you bother with corrupt.
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