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No more slugging for 4k
The survivor experience in this game is absolutely terrible. I cannot believe that over 7 years into this game killers can still slug the third survivor and look for the 4th without consequence unless the slugged survivor has a self pickup perk (they probably don't). Killers should be punished severely for doing this. Slugging in this game is toxic and completely ruins the survivor experience. Survivors are too heavily reliant on perks to deal with the worst killer playstyles in this game. We shouldn't have to use perks to counter a killer who decides to be toxic. So many survivor perks should be basekit. A killer should not feel comfortable with leaving survivors on the ground. If you leave a survivor on the ground for more than a few seconds you should be punished for it. It takes too long for survivors to recover from altruistic demanding situations where the killer suffers no slowdown or setback for being aggressive in this situation.
Please don't let this game go into 8 years and this still be a thing.
Comments
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"Survivors are too heavily reliant on perks to deal with the worst killer playstyles in this game." This is really true. Why do we have to run trashy anti-tunnel perks that don't work at all, when the killer knows what they are doing, to counter the most mind-numbing experience the game could possibly offer?
With regards to slugging for the 4k, if the killer has Ultimate Weapon then 9/10 times they'll do it because it's basically guaranteed unless the survivor hides in the locker, then they'll just let the slugged person bleed out whilst you cannot do anything about it. I think a bleed out at 25-50% progress left feature would be the best option here because it wouldn't punish the killer too much and it would prevent four minutes of time wasting whilst they set up an ambush.
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Killer players who slug, especially for the 4k at the end, should be so punished that it deters the behavior entirely. They shouldn't see any value in it. It should be absolutely detrimental to their ability to win.
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I mean at the end of the day its the killers choice to slug for the 4k or to give hatch or to really do anything, they got the match to that point so they get to choose what they do. If not slugging for the 4k was more consistent then maybe most wouldn't.
Heres how a slug for the 4k goes
3rd person gets slugged, ~50/50 depending on perks and killer if they can find the 4th survivor
Without it
hatch ~50/50
exit gates ~50/50 depending on how they spawn
You basically decide to flip coins on if you get a 4k or not or take a near guaranteed victory since even if you fail to find the survivor you still get those 50/50s after
its just the better option you can't complain that people want to win
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Then remake every challenge, or achievement that requires 4k. I am not going to risk losing an adept just to spare survivor's feelings.
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If slugging is viable then the survivor's enabled it, why should the killer be punished?
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Killers are winning with basically only having to get 3k. That is in no way fair to survivors. You don't realize how hard it is for survivors to recover from most situations in this game. It takes too much time to give you any fair chance to recover in a viable way. You're basically saying killers deserve to win for eliminating 2 survivors and downing the third. They shouldn't gain that much of an advantage over the match for playing in what many survivors consider to be extremely toxic. This game rewards killer mains far too much for playing in the most toxic ways. They should be incentivized to hook survivors and deterred from slugging them.
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You're right. I think the challenges and achievements should be void if you refuse to hook a survivor for more than 30 seconds. Like I said, they need to incentivize hooks and deter slugging.
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Make it so survivors can't play hide-and-seek for hatch when only two are alive and give killers full win benefits (complete challenges, adepts, and gives the scoring and bloodpoints as if the hatchee was sacrificed) if a survivor gets out through the hatch.
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Killers shouldn't win when they win got it
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Guess why the killer isn't hook?
because hook make killer weak and give survivor powerful.
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Poor Twins if slugging gets removed
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If i get slugged I just would afk and do something else. I don't have it in me to deal with that, the mechanic needs to go. It does not add fun, it doesn't do anyhting positive, it's just there to frustrate players.
I don't afk when we can still have a chance, but when it's obviously over, why bother. We need a concede button, or the ability to get up after a certain amount of time. Until they add this I've stopped playing as much and am much happier.
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That's like saying survivor challenges for escapes should be void if killer has less than 4 hooks to deter gen rushing... It doesn't make any sense.
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If you leave a survivor on the ground for more than a few seconds you should be punished for it.
Slugging for the 4K isn't toxic, but advocating for the removal of player agency for one half of players, to placate the side you play, is.
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Yes. More slugging for the 4k.
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Both are stretch tbh
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Oni feels that...
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Here we go again… There are a few perks that you can use to counter slugging. If you choose not to use those that’s on you.
If a killer chooses not to put you on a hook, that’s their choice that doesn’t make it toxic, they don’t feel like wasting the time picking you up, trying to find a hook and potentially losing you because your teammates may have a flashlight or a flash bang or something that could help them wiggle free.
It’s a complete time waster. Of course survivors want you to pick up as a killer. It waste time and creates opportunities for saves which further waste time.
I wouldn’t say it’s toxic, frustrating sure. It’s not really the killer fault though if the entire team goes down. as much as people get slugged and tunneled in this game, they should use perks to help counter that I certainly do as a survivor and it makes my experience significantly better in the game.
punishing killers for slugging is like saying, you should punish survivors severely for body blocking when I’m trying to put somebody on a hook, which is another reason I didn’t mention that is good for slugging
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@FreeKnives What do you think in regards to Kate’s post. Should killers be severely punished for sluggin?
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Not even close. You're comparing a situation where survivors are literally unable to continue their objectives to a situation where the killer can still continue theirs. Survivors have nothing on the same level of control as killers have when they leave survivors on the ground. Killers should be punished severely for leaving survivors on the ground. Similar to how they are now punished for camping survivors, why can't we have the same thing for slugged survivors? If you're left on the ground for more than a few seconds you get a progress bar start filling that recovers you from the dying state after so long. And no the killer would not be required to be close to you for this to happen. Killers are toxic because they are allowed to be without being punished for it. Why do you think we got the unhook protections now? I don't know how long you've been playing DBD but I remember a time where tunneling was to be expected and the norm for every match. Survivors had no protections off the hook. Killers could down you the very moment you were pulled off the hook. Being eliminated faster than it took for you to find a match was not fun, so they made changes to help deal with it. Its not enough by any means, but its a start. Likewise, slugging needs to be seen in the same light as being extremely bad to the survivor experience, which it is.
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Its more so seeing and acknowledging the absolute ridiculous power and control difference of the situations and bringing that to light. This is no different as to why we received unhook protections, 2 hooks for mori and the new anti camp system. The fact that people are blatantly ignoring these things and don't see the same problem in this situation as well is more telling of their mentality of the issue than mine. People who defend slugging are probably players who do it, so the bias in their argument is made clear.
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They should win when they 4k, not 2k or 3k. If that comes from leaving survivors on the ground for minutes then no they should not win. The weight of recovery for the situation for the non slugged survivor is too much. That is the biggest problem with the survivor experience overall. It takes too much time to recover from altruistic demanding situations.
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Likewise, slugging needs to be seen in the same light as being extremely bad to the survivor experience
Not really, game doesn't end for you when you are slugged.
There are killers, where slugging is basically mandatory, if you want to win. It's nothing like tunneling even in terms of effectiveness.
You just want your hatch, even tho you lost that game anyway.
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This is not Ok no matter the situation. I want fairness in this game. Nothing about slugging is fair when you do it for this long.
And this is only a few of the screenshots I have of this happening to me and I think these are all in recent time too.
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The point was that there is a bias in the argument to defending slugging. I can't imagine why or how anyone could defend excessive slugging when without some kind of self recover perk you have no chance at recovering from the situation. How anyone can be sympathetic towards killers in the situations shown in my screenshots above or the idea of excessive slugging is beyond me.
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I don’t feel bad. If this keeps happening to you why aren’t you changing your loadout to help prevent this? Why aren’t we thinking “ how could I have played this better?”
Instead of the killer needs to be severely punished for this it’s toxic… makes 0 sense.
It’s literally part of the game, it’s not toxic. The developers are never gonna go through with punishing killers for this. If you don’t want to be slugged, then try some different strategies or perhaps take a break from Dead by Daylight, you know what you’re walking into when you load this game up.
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This is a non argument. "Just play better" is not the solution to this. As I said, there is a reason we have gotten unhook protections, 2 hook mori requirements and the anti camp mechanic. These are all the result of long term toxic playstyles that many killers did that was literally ruining the game for survivors. Why didn't the devs accept "just play better" to the other changes? Because they finally saw the problem and determined something needed to be done about it. This is a problem and it needs to be dealt with. It needs a deterrent which can be as simple as survivors being able to pick themselves up after about 30 seconds. If the killer realizes that leaving survivors on the ground for prolonged periods of time is preventing them from getting hooks and eliminations then they will focus more on the hook objectives than slugging. Also doesn't slugging play against the pip system for killers? Clearly that isn't enough to deter this. Besides that, if they know they aren't being rewarded with ranking up then it just further adds to the argument that they do this to be toxic.
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This could be fixed with Surrender option, no need to punish killer. You can ask for that instead...
There are actions survivors can do, where slugging is only counterplay, so it doesn't make sense to punish it in any way.
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I did say probably. So if you don't do this then great, you're not part of the problem. Its still a problem.
Slugging feels unnatural to the flow of the game if its done excessively. I can understand downing a survivor then running after another one who was nearby or may be trying to make a flashlight save. However to leave 1 or even multiple survivors on the ground for long periods of time is completely toxic and ruins the survivor experience. I don't mind being left down for a little while, but to just blatantly do it because you can gives an unfair advantage to the killer. Remember that its the survivors who lose control when they are downed. Killers cannot be stopped. They can only be slightly delayed with stuns, loops and blinds.
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I would prefer the killer be punished for playing like this, not rewarded. A surrender option would make since in certain situations such as 2 elimations with 3+ gens left and the situation seems heavily in favor of the killer. Other than that, no I don't support a surrender option for killers who choose to play this way.
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A surrender option would make since in certain situations such as 2 elimations with 3+ gens left and the situation seems heavily in favor of the killer
Depends what limits you set for surrender to be allowed. You can make it so it's allowed when every survivor is dead/hooked/downed for X seconds. That fix bleeding out crying.
How exactly is that a reward anyway? Killer would win at that point anyway, doesn't matter if they manage to find all survivors, they bleed out, or they surrender. Outcome is still all survivors dead.
who choose to play this way
Some killers don't really have an option other than slug to some extent. Like Oni, Twins, Plague, Myers. They have limited powers and slugging helps them to get as much value as possible from it. It's logical to do it for them.
There are situations where it's impossible to hook survivors, it can happen quite easily on The Game for example.
Also Background player exists, if I see survivor dropping under pallet on purpose, why would I even try to pick them up? It doesn't make any sense.
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The anti face camp is actually what it is. Hence survivors getting more and more basekit features added to the game.
The developers have stated over and over the Slugging isn’t toxic and that it’s part is the game. It’s a non reportable offense as it should be.
There’s more than one way to pip up and not every killer slugs every single trail of their game.
Also it is an argument because there are various counters to this and none of which you are willing to apply. Not the killers fault.
If all survivors are down and nobody has a perk to help them get up, then all survivors should be dead. 💀End of story.
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Agreed but she only wants to punish the killer. If it’s not a nerf on trickster, she wants to nerf Billy, if it’s not Billy, slugging for the 4K is toxic and should be an extremely punishable offense. She’s constantly blaming killers left and right on threads without looking at the big picture from everyone that is trying to be helpful in the feedback.
Killer shouldn’t be punished as you said and many others said. A surrender option or if nobody has the means to pick themselves up by any means than the timer could be ignored and all survivors die?
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A surrender option or if nobody has the means to pick themselves up by any means than the timer could be ignored and all survivors die?
It could be implemented for both sides, where the game is over, but other side don't want to finish it for some reason. There would need to be delay, so you can't end game asap and other side doesn't have chance to finish possible challenges etc.
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There are not various counters to this. You're wanting every survivor to be forced into a loadout forever to deal with something that shouldn't be happening in the first place. What is the point of perks if were forced to use a specific loadout to deal with something that might not happen? This is why I say many survivor perks should be basekit.
The developers have stated over and over the Slugging isn’t toxic and that it’s part is the game.
They also allowed 1 hook moris, no unhook protections and no anti camp mechanic to be in the game for years before making changes to those things. They can say whatever they want. What matters is the player experience and feedback regarding things in the game. If enough players say something is not right in the game and they make changes to accommodate those things then their opinion on the issue didn't matter.
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This is not a universal issue amongst all killers in the game. Most killers are actually quite reasonable to deal with. Its mostly the anti pallet and instant down killers I take issue with. As far as slugging goes, some killers can do this a lot easier than others but the outcome is still the same for the survivors. Wanting the match to continue when a killer decides to leave survivors on the ground for entire bleed outs is not an unreasonable opinion.
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Agreed
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If they were going to remove slugging, it would’ve happened by now.
Not every survivor has to carry a load out for slugging, you only need one perk for that.
I still stand by what I say, if all survivors are on the ground, you should all be dead if there are no perks to help you get up or anything else by any means.
My main issue with your statements is you’re saying it’s “toxic” and the killer should be severely punished”
Not many people agree with you respectfully as you can see.
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That’s fine, but remove the timer, and all the survivors are dead. Survivor shouldn’t get a base kit unbreakable because the whole team went down. That only punishes the killer. If the entire team went down, then the survivors made some seriously critical mistakes.
And you’re right it’s not a universal issue amongst all killers it’s not an issue that comes up all the time so it shouldn’t be an issue to slide in at least one perk to help prevent this Instead of coming to the forums to say killers should be punished for it.
If behavior wants to fix it, then they will find the best solution to make it happen, In my humble opinion, the best would be for survivors to just be dead so they can move onto the next lobby (ONLY if they have to counter it.)
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I will and always be adamant on this. Incentive is always better than limitation. I don't like when killers slug for a 4k, but I would not say to remove the ability to slug, thats absurd, because its a bandaid on a bigger problem that will cause more problems and frustrations for killers. And what survivor mains who dont play killer, dont realize, is how frustrating playing killer can be, which is why they would never play killer seriously. Lets look at the reasons people slug other than being toxic, because in that situation you can tell when someone is doing that.
- Rank Reset. Killers trying desperately to get the BP from iri. Same way Survivors play in swfs, coms, and meta perks to gen rush and get iri during rank reset. Its a bloodbath. Cause soloq is hard, so killers use slugging strategically against swfs altruism, and it can make for very exciting games honestly. Its a meta fest but in high mmr, it already is even without rank reset.
- Based on the survivors track record or behavior during that match, of constant attempts to save, sabo, or body block, the killer can expect someone is nearby anytime someone is downed, and will leave the third on the ground to do a sweep around them.
- The killer spots the 4th survivor, and goes for the 4th while third is down. This is at the killers own risk because that survivor could have unbreakable. And yes that can result in that person opening the gate, or healing so they can take a hit or rescue the 4th person. Its happened. I have seen very clever survivors who use slugging against the killer and honestly well played.
- That person slugged knows the boiled over exploit spots on the map, and keeps returning to that spot so they cant be hooked. If you have boiled over and run to these spots, you honestly asked to be left slugged. The killer cant hook you.
Now when a killer doesn't have the above reasons, and has no idea where the 4th is, and/or isn't even looking for the 4th survivor, then yes, that is pretty rude to the player slugged.
But you can't punish killers for slugging without pin pointing the cause and if you cant fix all those causes then you can't do a blanket fix for the specific instance a killer is being toxic or having an ego trip.
You could make it an option for the 3rd survivor to DC (if they dont have boiled over) without punishment if the killer is in range for a certain amount of time, but keep in mind I have seen where slugging for the 4k backfired on a killer. Because a person will know better what to do if they are picked up to help that 4th teammate, a bot won't. On the other hand if the 4th survivor sees the person DC'd they know that survivors body is being camped and can stay hidden or go for gate. So that is the best thing you can do without adding unnecessary limitations to killers, especially because you would be punishing killers who dont slug to be toxic, but use it strategically and in some cases to counter-boiled over exploits.
But at least they can leave and not feel trapped, and they can get their blood points and let the game continue with a bot on the ground.
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💯 agreed my friend. All very valid and fair points.
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This thread is not a viable source of data for the overall opinion of slugging.
Neither is this thread I made last year which has 250 comments.
But to disregard this as a non issue is clearly not reflective of one of the more common talked about subjects of the game. The reason why I say slugging is toxic is because its a playstyle that reflects the same sentiment people felt about other problems that have received changes by the devs which many people also considered toxic. Face camping was considered toxic by survivor mains, so they did something about it. Tunneling was considered toxic too, and they did something about it. It took years for them to implement these changes and I believe in time if slugging is considered to be detrimental to the survivor experience in the game something will be done about it. This is why player feedback is important. I think if they did an in game survey that asked players if they think slugging is fair and whether or not something should be done about it I really do think the majority would agree that its not fair.
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I don't like when killers slug for a 4k, but I would not say to remove the ability to slug, thats absurd, because its a bandaid on a bigger problem that will cause more problems and frustrations for killers.
I never said to remove the ability to slug. I have made clear excessive slugging is the issue. There is no situation before the end game collapse that a killer should leave a survivor on the ground for more than a minute at most. I said incentivizing hooks more is how to deal with this problem. How do you do that? Well if killers knew that if they left a survivor on the ground for too long it would not go well for them then they would probably choose to hook them before that happens. If killers knew that a survivor could pick themselves up after so long I guarantee you they won't leave them on the ground. No Mither is a great example of this. Most killers who see a survivor using no mither will ever leave them on the ground for more than a few seconds. Why? Because they know that survivor will pick themselves up. This is not hard to solve.
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I think you need to play killer more...You seem to lack an understanding with killers in general, just by reading some of your posts. And keep in mind that all killers pain points are different and balancing around just "killer" is oversimplifying at best, and hurts balancing, because all killers have different ranks, abilities, and weaknesses. Balancing is very delicate in this game. Not to mention all players have different skill levels. Again....YES, there is ABSOLUTELY good reason to slug before end game in certain situations, and its actually end game slugging for the 4k that can become problematic. If your team doesn't pick you up during the match, then thats on them, if you dont have unbreakable, thats unlucky, and if the killer slugged you and camped you before end game collapse...he may think he owned someone....but hes about to lose all the gens or the last gens.... So I dont see a problem with slugging in general, you say you dont either, but you clearly do because you want killers to be forced to immediately pick up.
End-game slugging can be alleviated so the 3rd survivor slugged at endgame doesn't have to wait for the game to end if they dont want to. Again...without boiled over perk, because that exploit kind of shoots itself in the foot, and I think they should wait to leave the match if the goal was to exploit not being hooked.
As for no mither, actually, I will leave a no mither on the ground if I see someone else and that person has more hooks. Its strategic. Same way I assume everyone has unbreakable....I leave people on the ground if I am chasing someone waiting for the save, i.e. flashlights, and I always assume the person on the ground may have unbreakable but downing people even if they get up, prevents people from working on gens for 26 seconds, its one of the only ways to counter swfs, especially good survivors when not using overwhelming perks or not using S tier killers. So...thats not a good example that "killers always pick up no mither and so letting people get up is the solution". As with every situation when playing killer...you have to think 7 steps ahead for everything, because you arent just dealing with just 4 perks you are dealing with 16 perks....and map variables, and 4 different player skill level variables, and 4 different item variables. So....again, over simplifying with the "they left me on the ground and they shouldnt be allowed to do that" is just not taking the whole picture into account.
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One more thing, with the suggestion I made....just so its clear. Allowing a survivor to DC without penalty, Im talking about the third survivor, the other 2 survivors would need to be dead. Thats what 4k slugging is. Just clarifying, just incase.
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So I dont see a problem with slugging in general, you say you dont either, but you clearly do because you want killers to be forced to immediately pick up.
Quote me where I said this. I'm not going to continue a conversation with you if you're going to blatantly mispresent what I am saying. I have said excessive slugging is the problem. I also said that a minute and somewhere between 30 seconds to a minute is a fair time to leave a survivor on the ground. Beyond that the killer should be punished for it. That isn't forcing killers to pick survivors up right away.
As far as playing killer goes, I have no interest other than to sometimes go for the bonus BPs you get at every rank reset. I'll play a level 1 Myers with only 1 perk (brutal strength) so I can break pallets and kick gens faster. I'm currently at bronze 2 and going to see how far I can go with no addons, offerings and 3 empty perk slots. I also usually stay in tier 1 evil within so I don't even take advantage of his instant down power. I'm going to try for Red 1 rank like this and if I get there I don't ever want to hear anything about how hard it is to play killer.
because you arent just dealing with just 4 perks you are dealing with 16 perks
And yet I have screenshot after screenshot showing killers slugging my entire team going up against 16 perks. There is no big picture I'm not seeing here. I am speaking from experience. 3056 hours of experience playing survivor. All of the things you mentioned aren't as big of a problem to killers as you think they are. The RNG in this game seems to always play more in favor to the killer than survivors.
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Doesn't It take 4 minutes to bleed out? That's quite a long boring time, and the only motivation/benefit to not dc is a slight satisfaction in not getting hooked. Semi tongue-in-cheek, what if, with one second left, a survivor went from dying to injured? Being downed then is an insta-kill, but now the dying survivor has a reason to keep engaged in the game, especially if the other random is simply waiting for you to die to get hatch.
Post edited by daddroid1 on0 -
All slugging for the 4k does is show that the killer is insecure about their gameplay. Otherwise they would be fine 1v1 for the hatch. So let killer do it, let them keep showing how insecure they are about the game. Its great too because there is no rebuttal they can have. "I want a 4k" "im a killer doing my job" all excuses for being insecure in the 1v1 xD
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Only killer with an excuse to slug is oni. Name another.
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We can punish slugging for the 4K if hatch gets removed.
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