Onryo feels horrid to play after Post PTR changes

I_Wanna_Muffin

I wanna start by saying that Sadako 2.0 was the worst version of Sadako to exist, it was brainless spamming of the control key which was frustrating for survivors to play against due to just simply not being able to find a tape to remove condemn stacks or prevent them. This lead to a playstyle where your goal was to keep survivors without a tape so you could build teamwide condemn whilst focusing condemn onto a single player ,usually the obsession due to perks like PWYF having insane synergy with this playstyle, this lead to survivors not really getting chased for extended periods of time unless the Sadako wanted to mori them and they were condemnable. This version of Sadako was uninteresting to play as on the Sadakos side and boring to play from the survivors side as they did not get to interact with the things that make survivor fun (being chased by the killer). This playstyle was also terrible from a survivor side due to the playstyle simply disabling nearly every meta survivor chase perk with the exception of something like resilience of the 1.0 version of made for this due to so many perks requiring a survivor to be hooked to activate.

The post ptr changes for Sadako after some time figuring things out make the killer abhorrent to play in my opinion. BHVR have removed a lot of decision making that you were forced to make if you wanted to play her well compared to Sadako 1.0 and have watered down condemn as a mechanic making it significantly less threatening by making the counter to condemn have 0 liability and be effectively impossible to interact assuming the survivor healthy (there is 1 exception to this rule with ultimate weapon but that is insanely difficult to pull off in an actual game). BHVR have actually improved a lot regarding the QoL to her kit with manifesting being the same speed as survivors rather then slower and not being able to be stunned whilst demanifested.

Limiting condemn lock to 3 stacks. Why, if a survivor misplays hard enough causing them to build a lot of condemn and i am able to down them on a killer with 0 chase why should i be punished for hooking them by only getting 3 stacks locked in, at that point i might as well just slug as i can proxy it with tvs and just pressure them out when they get picked up, or just not allow them to pick up a tape in the 1st place and condemn them before downing them.

New Iri tape. What made Sadako 1.0 viable was old iri tape for context it would after manifesting and getting a hit turn on the last 4 tvs you teleported through, this lead to her having and insane 24/7 chase hit and run playstyle where your goal was to push people into tvs which the survivor could mind game and ran out of the range as you teleported to dodge the condemn stack and the new iri tape is a terrible meme addon which shouldn't be iri quality. I am in no way saying they should revert this back to the 1.0 state as it is simply not required due to the shorter TV cooldowns, however it would be nice if the terrible meme addons were of a rarity that allows people to actually play with them consistently and allow the addons that are supposed to be good to not worse then all the brown addons .

New Tape System.

The new tape system is overall terrible, but there are a few good additions, such as survivors being able to turn off the wrong TV at the cost of a stack of condemn, this is amazing as it provides the survivors with an option to turn off the tv that is near a generator they want to work on whilst already having a tape all at the cost of 1 stack of condemn but with the trade off that it will prevent more in the long run assuming they are able to sit and work on that generator.

The biggest problem with tapes right now is that they have 0 liability and holding onto one is encouraged, Sadako 1.0 Survivors would slowly build stacks of condemn if they were holding onto a tape encouraging them to pick them up when they needed it and get rid of it as soon as possible, this lead to moments where the Sadako would be urgently trying to find the survivor to interrupt them from lowering their condemn and lead to moments where as Sadako you could predict which TV they were going to go to ,which came with experience, and teleport through the tv as they were putting the tape up or just simply cutting them off and then chasing them, this was extremely fun from both the survivor side and the killer side as it added an additional moment of tenseness besides the last generator nearly being complete. Sadako 2.0 took a different approach and your goal was to hit the tape out of their hands to give them 2 stacks of condemn and allow them to be hit by the map wide condemn from teleporting, this was terrible because giving 2 stacks of condemn equal to 30 seconds of teleporting off CD for hitting and forcing the survivor to then go and pick up another tape and deliver it which was hard assuming the Sadako was teleporting off CD as there would only be a maximum of 2 TVs active at any time if she is spam teleporting, this system lead to survivors being able to be moried very early into the game with tape editing deck and i have personally have had a mori quite a few moris within 60 seconds of TVs turning on because of it. The current system of tapes for Sadako 3.0 from Sadakos side is impossible to interact with anymore unlike before since the tape put up cooldown is so short teleporting to TVs that a survivor is trying to interact with is harder then ever and even if you do it doesn't matter as they will just put away their tape anyway. Your only way of interacting with tapes is to hook people, but you are playing a killer with 0 chase with the exception of manifest mindgame which only works even consistently as medium strength pallets and still gives the survivor time to react to it even with the manifestation flicker invisibility becoming increased (Reiko's Watch basekit was a good change however).

Changes that i propose.

Make their liability to just holding onto a tape or make them easier to destroy.

Make condemn lock-in lock in the amount of condemn they have rather then just 3 stacks at a time.

Tape put up time

Liability for tapes i believe is a good idea and i would implement this probably by making it so that if the Sadako hits a survivor that survivors tape is broken and they are given no condemn, could be made 1 stack of condemn with a reworked iri tape or something. Alternately they could add condemn over time whilst not in chase however i think this is a poor idea as it removes the decision of turning off the tv for a stack of condemn or leaving it on.

Condemn lock in being 3 stacks per hook is effectively pointless as there is basically no reason to hook someone unless they have a tape as that is the only way to break it, but it costs you so much time and tempo that its even still arguably better to slug or just not down them and push them into TVs. If i am able to capitalise on someone misplaying in such a significant way then i should be rewarded for that more then if i just hook someone who i chased for a bit that just so happened to have 3 stacks of condemn.

Tape put up time being 1 second doesn't allow for the cool montage plays where you blind teleport across the map and interrupt a tape put up because even if you do they can still just put it up and it makes it significantly easier for a survivor whilst moriable to just put up a tape mid chase and take a hookstage rather then dying which just feels bad from a Sadako point of view as there is nothing you can really do to prevent it. I would argue 2 seconds would be fair as it would allow 8 stack STBFL to prevent a tape put up if you have 8 stacks, or maybe 1.5 seconds if that is seen as a problem.

Devil_hit11

Bvhr seems to be against killer with mori's. Pig nerf on mori, Sadako nerf on Mori. there is only one target left. Myer's.

jonifire

Her first/Og version was the best. You needed skill for condemning people, she was scarier, you had better mobility and it was the fairest. All in all she was almost perfect.

The first rework was terrible. I bought the killer for her mobility, which was the most fun thing back then. After the rework everyone took tapes, which denied her mobility almost completely. She was also incredibly unbalanced and unfun to play as and against. Just spam tp and hit everyone with tapes-> repeat->Mori.

Second rework is better, but still very bad. Her mobility got back a bit, but is still hindered by survivors turning of her TVs constantly. Then the Tv auras make her chase even worse than it already was and they get abused to run around to turn off all TVs at the same time, which is so incredibly unfun to play against. This killer is currently only designed to be a noob stomper, which is so dumb. Your own skill doesn‘t really matter. What matters is the missing knowledge of survivors. If they know the counterplay, you are basically only a m1 killer the whole game.😔 Tapes have no downside, which makes those problems even worse and turning off TVs for 1 stack is so unfair, they just run around turn everything off and get 0 stacks in the end.

Things that are needed for this version, but I think you should just return to her OG version:

• TV auras should be completely removed, except of the target TV, where you have to put your tape in
• Passive condemned after holding a tape for 50s
• Insertion speed back to 2s or 1,5s
• Remove the one stack traid of for turning off TVs if the Tv auras stay

MY HOPES/WISHES

Behavior you did such a great job with her first version!!! She was almost perfect!!!

I want her OG version back, because there the focus wasn‘t on condemned only and your own skill mattered and not the missing skill of survivors.

Strong passive condemned of tapes made survivors rarely touch tapes, which was great! Your power was under your control, because all TVs were online. You could use it in chase, to track people, to condemned them, to get close to them and my favorite to scar them.

My ideas/ changes:

• Keep the lock in; it would solve one of the biggest issues: called condemned slugging.
• Keep the chase buffs (speed boost after tp, no slowdown when manifasting, longer invisibility…), shorter tv cooldowns, anti stun
• Tapes give one stack every 25s again
• Condemned gets only applied by one Tv again
• My condemned buff idea: 24-16m 0,5stacks; 16-8m 1stack; 8-0m 2stacks. This would make her condemned stronger, which would already be stronger through shorter Tv cooldowns and make it skillful again
• Addons: Return old iri tape, old reikis watch either 50% or 33%, keep current bugged ring drawing, return old yoichis fishing net
• Give us something to hide her lullaby by making her lullaby disappear through obvious or something else
• Edit: Remove Tv auras, remove 1stack Tv turn off traid off, change tape instertion speed back to 2s

Please behavior give me my favorite killer back! Current Onryo is only good against survivors, who ignore her TVs and extremely bad against any good player. This is extremely unhealthy! She is literally reduced to be a noob stomper, which will make her kill rate stay the same. Her first version was the fairest and most fun and skilled one.

I will wait for some weeks and hope you address the issues, but the best solution would be to return her back to what she once was with the buffs you gave her. Please don‘t leave her like this. She in such a bad spot and I think you should go away from giving her any form of global condemned, most people can‘t deal with it. I don‘t Even want to use her condemned, because by making it global/ all Tv condemned her TVs will always be offline constantly.

Please just give me good old weak, Onryo back🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

MechWarrior3

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653464#Comment_3653464

I agree my friend. Very good points.

MechWarrior3

Now that I have had ample time to play Sadako with the new buffs, survivors that are decent or good, these changes are welcome but TVs are constantly offline.

This equals no condemn. No mobility. Solution…Passive condemn on tapes needs to come back to help this. (It could be slow. I don’t care but it’s a must)

To pull condemn off on good/decent survivors is frustrating to do when your TVs are always off.

I like the everything else personally but this is frustrating…

Also the VTR is still a pain with her. We need a middle ground. I can’t through hatchets 🪓 I don’t need a lullaby.