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Add 3 penalty free dc's per day
The idea here is that if the match is not fun because of a killer who tunnels agressiv at 5 gens, the killer holds a three gen from the start or sluggs every survivor for 4 minutes, you can just dc the game and move on.
I was against this idea myself for quite some time but with the tunneling becomming more and more present I feel like it should be okay to leave a match behind without facing a total of 26 minutes timeout.
People who dc on everything will keep dcing and therefor get their timeout. It's just that I think survivors shouldn't be forced to play a game that is extremly boring or frustrating. Neither should the killer. If you face a bully squad you can leave the game and move on without penalty.
Also this would discourage survivors from ending theirself at the hook leaving the team with at least a bot, also killers would be discouraged from these kind of playstyles because they would then have to play a match against bots.
I think all of us have faced matches where we were seriously thinking about leaving the match because it was draining the fun of the game and ruining your mood for the evening.
Comments
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Eww, no, we need MORE punishments for DCing and killing yourself on hook, not less. So many games are ruined by people doing these things.
25 -
So you want to be able to leave the game for free 3 times because the games not going as you would have liked? Not a fan. The games supposed to be played out. Giving a out for free 3 times just increases the amount of dcs again. Because say you dc 3 times. Then the first dc after that is what a minute? Thats 4 dcs in a day.
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Hell no, we have seen time and time again how it turns out when DC penalties are temporarily disabled - the game is close to unplayable.
I say this as someone who has rage quit a lot in the past, though my max penalty was 30 mins so I guess not as much as others.
I just play out pretty much every match now and try not to take it all too seriously, mindset is a big factor in DBD. Of course you can always go next on hook if the match is that bad.
DC penalties wont stop people going next on hook but you better believe I am going to farm you for points before you can ######### on hook
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While it's true that tunnelling has gotten much worse since 7.5.0 (for obvious reasons) giving free DCs isn't the way.
I remember when they had a short period where there was no DC penalty, the game was borderline unplayable for certain Killers and Survivors that did the first gen too fast.
While I do agree that a Killer should be able to DC against a full team of bots without penalty AND Survivors should be able to DC with no penalty if they are the last non-bot Survivor (not alive or dead, bot) giving free outs won't change much except that certain Killers will have issues playing the game.
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Maybe the first few disconnect penalties could be a negative Bloodpoint multiplier. Trolls likely don't care about Bloodpoints so matchmaking timeouts from excessive DC's are meant to stop them from re-queueing to continue to troll.
What I don't like is that the game bars you from queueing as either role after a disconnect. The game is assymetrical. If I rage quit while playing survivor, it's likely because I was singled out and hard tunneled or the other survivors teamed up with the killer to grief me. These are not issues I would run into while playing the killer role, so it makes no sense to prevent me from queueing as the killer as I would not likely disconnect while playing that role.
I get that having the roles be on separate matchmaking timeouts would allow trolls to ruin twice as many matches, but that doesn't have to be the case. If a player disconnects as one role, they should still be able to play the other role. However, if they disconnect from a role while their other role was in matchmaking timeout THEN lock both roles and use the same timeout penalty.
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If you feel the need to DC at least 3 times a day, then maybe you should be spending your time playing something else that you actually enjoy.
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I don't like this idea, I'm playing mostly killer and the amount of people just leaving because they got downed first and missplayed or just leave because they didn't get the flashlight-save and downed instead is unreal.
I think dbd had around 40k players everyday, that would mean there is a total of 120k free dc's a day and most of them wouldn't use it for people tunneling for sure.
Dbd is not an overwatch were you just get a new mate when someone dc's, if someone dc's the people staying basically loose instantly. That's why the penality should stay like it is or should be even higher.
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No, no thanks.
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You cant just leave the game because yo dont like how someone else is playing, thats ridiculous. if anything we need more penalties. If its that big a deal you can just die on hook penalty free anyways.
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Personally, I would increase penalties. But ISP malfunctions happen, so it is not that bright idea.
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Promoting this behavior is terrible. It harms the game for all the other people playing. If you want to be upset and quit in situations that are less desirable than maybe play solo games.
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Nope. 👎
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I would much rather you have to earn a free DC by actually staying in a match...
I understand sometimes you either need to (something outside the game happens) or it is best that you should be able to (everyone is slugged but the killer won't hook)... But just three free DCs for everyone every day? No.
Besides what others have said about the numbers here. That's a lot of DCs... If you want that many, maybe what you need is to pick a different game.
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I VERY rarely DC, I never have more than a 30 seconds time out. The only time I dc is if there are hackers in the lobby or if I'm being personally griefed for no reason (killer is exclusively slugging me or making my personal play experience miserable when I don't use flashlights or BM) I wouldn't mind maybe 2 free dcs a day incase of connection loss but tbh if I DC'd twice in one day I'd just probably call it and leave the game for a couple days to cool off.
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As much as I would love a system that rewards free DC to players whom need to quit to avoid cheaters, or unexpected Glitches or exploits or even game crashes. I am however against this, as it makes trolls or unsatisfied/toxic players more freedom to ruins matches even more for the other players in the matches; which in turn makes the entire playing experience miserable for both sides. So NO, no free DCs, not until the day the Developers have created a new system to detect the difference between good and bad players and make it so that killing yourself on hook intentionally just to avoid the DC penalty is punishable.
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I thought that way too some time ago but at the end it won't work. If you add penalties for killing yourself on hook then survivors will just start running into the killer on purpose. If they dc the team at least gets the bot.
As I explained, tunneling is a rising problem in the game and if people can just disconnect from a toxic killer or someone who just tunnels at 5 gens, this behaviour would be penalized on the passive way. To put it simple, you are a facecamping tunnel bubba? Have fun going after 4 bot survivors.
Survivors who quit because of everything they don't like will still keep quitting and facing the penalties. The majority of the players however rarely ever leave a game. For example I had to face a legion player who didn't want to hook a single survivor. He just wanted them to bleed out on the ground. It took us 24 minutes to get out of this game.
These are the situations most people would want to dc but are afraid to because the penalty system will set them on timeout.
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I never said that I want to leave a game because it is not going the way I like it to. Your assumption is wrong.
The majority of players never quit a game but that leads to frustration on the survivor side because they get told to just endure however the killer behaves. The surivors cannot regulate the killers movements but the killer can regulate survivor movements. So if a killer want's to be toxic it should be possible to just leave the match behind.
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I just don't understand why DBD is the only pvp game that allows players to give up and completely ruin the game for the other players and there's no punishment for it. Heck there's a sizeable portion of the playerbase that defends this behaviour which is just completely alien to me. Other pvp games rightly punish players who do this sorta thing and because of that it's not nearly as widespread and common.
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After reading all comments I am not so sure what to think about it. Some people sound like they want to defend it just so they can keep their bad playstile in terms of tunneling and griefing.
@Dream_Whisper mentiond earning a dc. That could be an option too.
Still I don't feel like People should be forced to play a match that is causing nothing but frustration. I am not talking about kiddies who dc on being downed first or mess up a flash light save yara yara. It is more about avoiding the 8th tunnel proxy camper in a row or the 6th legion player who just slugs and never hooks.
I don't need 3 free dc's every day but there are day's where you play 8 matches and 6 of them are just terrible. So you leave the game and are less likely to pick it up that day again. You build up resentment towards the game when you had 4 bully squads as killer or 5 tunnel camper/slugger as survivor.
That's the situations I was talking about. Some people I know already left dbd for good because they were tired of getting just 2 good matches.
I don't mind loosing in a good match. Neither do my friends. But you get tired pretty fast when the majoritry is not fun. A game is supposed to be fun. That's why the tunneling issue is hurting the game so much lately. It get's boring really fast.
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I think that is because in other pvp games people have pretty equal characters. In Apex for example each character may have an unique ability but it ultimately comes down to recharging your shield, healing yourself and get weapons/extensions. DBD is different because you have two different power dynamics in one game. The survivors and the killer. Unlike other games the killer is a player himself. So here we have one sole person going up against 4 others. dbd always had struggle to balance things but what is putting the game to a real test is the pychological effect of the game. Some people simply don't care about the game/objective itself. They just wan't to ruin it for others/only think of themself. I relate this to people who traverse the map alone and leave their squad behind in other games.
So when they do not get their 4k, they get salty. If the survivor stuns them he needs to be tunneled. The flash light save was messed up, they need to tbag and then dc. I think there is a part of dbd players (survivors as much as killers) who take the game way to serious. Because of the nature of the killer being the surpreme power in the game people with these pschological traits or low selfesteem are drawn to play killer more naturally because it makes them feel important, powerfull and "good".
I will not make a whole case study here but the mindset of the players is what currently messes up a lot of matches.
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But that doesn't change the fact that if BHVR took a much harsher stance against DCing or killing yourself on hook, if there were longer DC penalties and if killing yourself on hook was a reportable offense or outright impossible to do, then these things would happen a lot less.
If survivors just afk or purposefully run into the killer and wait to get hooked, that's already bannable behavior.
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100% agree! most d/cs I get are also for getting a down too quick (specially if they're P100 lamo)
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I don't think it would happen a lot less. People who quit on everything will still find a way to quit. A penalty will not stop them. Most players don't really bother reporting people who run to the killer so that would happen more often. In the end I don't think it would change much.
It would on the other hand increase resentment and frustration. Forcing people into matches would benefit bad killer playstyle as survivors are less likely to quit.
If you want to enforce people into matches you need to enforce a fair game system. The game already struggles with a decreasing playerbase so that would probably hurt more then do good because nobody likes to be forced to do something.
On the other hand being able to quit a game on conditions like being slugged for more then 2 minutes or being tunneled at 5 gens would take a lot of frustration from the game and be a small passive penalty for killers who play that way. A bot may not be the best replacement for an actual player but still better then nothing.
As long as there are no penalties for toxic killers/survivors leaving the game when certain conditions are met is something I wouldn't mind.
If you want to ask I actually do play killer more often but survivor experience has been pretty bad the past months. That's why this whole topic arised in my head.
I just want to point out that I am talking about edge scenarious where a game simply is miserable to play. The intention was not to grant every survivor free dc's because they picked the wrong item or something like that.
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You already get 2 free DCs a day. 60 seconds is nothing.
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No. Please don't. It's bad enough as is.
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DC is more to blame than the tunneling. This fact has been proven here and now, and DC will not be tolerated by anyone.
2 -
HAHAHA!
No.
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To make it very short. No
Tunneling happens almost every game now. A dc maybe every 10 games.
If you want to defend that point show me your proofs
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The second dc is already 5 minutes, third is 15. I never went beyond a third dc so I dont know what happens after that.
So you mean to tell me if I play 12 matches after working all day and get a killer who tunnels agressivly at 5 gens and then slugs around in these 3 out of 12 matches I either have to play these miserable boring games or have to wait around for 26 minutes?
Tunneling is so normal in dbd that I rarely ever see matches without it. So is slugging survivors forever.
I just went on hiatus for one week and played two matches today and what do I see? A whesker who tunnels me agressivly, a skull merchant who camps and tunnels and an Onryo who even carried survivors back to the hook so they could wiggle off, unhook the hooked player so he could then keep tunneling. It's so disgusting. Are you really wondering why people dc in games more often?
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you need to read well. The tunneling thing is controversial, and at least Killer has a point, but DC is now getting hate from almost everyone. Please recognize that fact.
Anyway, we're talking about DC here. All I wanted to say is that while the tunneling act is buying so much hate, DC is buying even more hate, and this is proof that DC is not tolerated more than anything else. Please leave your hate towards tunnels in another topic.
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Are we playing the same game? In which world is there only a dc every 10 games, I'd go so far to say it's completely the other way around.
And yes I really wonder why they dc.
First of all: Half of them dc because they lost mindgames or got outskilled, these people are generally not understandable.
Second: Even when I personally get tunneled, I don't feel like a dc is fixing any problem, not for me and not for my team. I just try to loop the killer as long as possible. Looping a tunneling killer for a while is often more problematic for himself than for yourself.
I did never dc a game once in my life and honestly don't ever see a reason to do that. It's just stupid to lose any points you got for absolutely nothing, it doesn't make a point, it doesn't hurt the killer (most of the times) and it does actually hurt your team.
And yes, you have to play those "boring" games or wait 26 minutes, the alternative would be to accept the rng in soloQ-Teammates and get as good as you can yourself OR search for a swf and play with them.
dbd in the end is a game where you won't come very far without investing time and I don't feel like it's a bad thing:
Tunneling a survivor never playing and tunneling one that plays quite a lot and is quite good at looping is something completely different. It can absolutely ruin you if you don't drop him quick enough or catch him alternatively.
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Obviously our experience is quite the opposite extrem from another.
Why would anyone bother getting tunneled every match? Why not dc and put the game aside as it simply is no fun anymore. For the majority of the players getting tunneled is frustrating. They might not dc on the first game but the resentment builds up and at some point they don't care anymore.
After 10 games of getting tunneled they question why to play a game that is no fun and rather drags the mood down.
I don't get why you feel people should be forced to play a game that is miserable. Who would play a game like that. People can accept loosing a match. But they actually want to a chance to play the match and not being on the hook for the majority of the trial.
As I said many times now, the intention was not to make it possible for people to dc because of everything and not panlize them. I wanted an alternative to killing yourself on hook if you are stuck in a game so miserable it could be reported.
I don't think it is easy to implement a system to detect a miserable match but that would be something good. I don't know how many times a killer left all survivors on the ground to bleed out to "dominate" the survivors. Yes you can report something like that but it's not like bhvr is going to ban him for years because of this. I think to dc in that situation should not be panlized as you already lost the match but just didn't want to wait around another 2 minutes before you bleed out.
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Tunneling never was "controversial". It is normal in tournaments but has always been hated in normal dbd.
Comparing these two doesn't contribute anything to the original topic. Maybe you should leave your hate towards dc's somewhere else? See how that last sentence doesn't make this discussion any better?
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Simply because the rest doesn't even have remotely a chance to win anymore when you leave:
Like I said, in Overwatch you'd just get a new mate and everything is chill. It's just not the same in dbd, your team's basically dead if someone leaves.
If you don't feel like this game is fun then don't queue up, it's as simple as that. I don't understand what your thoughs are that you queue in a game that is no fun just to leave and ruin it for at least 3 people.
The system you are talking about is simply impossible to implement or pretty easy to abuse. I can guarantee you that there will be killers knowing exactly how far they can go to let you bleed just because they want it. Implementing this system won't change anything and it's impossible to set borders everyone will agree to.
Bleeding people out on the floor is more or less a gray thing to do, it's not following the normal gameplay, but it's not holding hostage ether because there's a timer running down and they can't confirm it's because the killer wanted to annoy you. Maybe it's a squad with 4 boilovers and flipflop, second floor in eyrie of crow main-building making it impossible to hook. What do you do as killer? Letting them recover just because it's impossible to hook? Nope, i just bleed them out like they wanted it themself.
And what do you want to do about tunneling?
Making the survivor impossible to down until you hook someone else? well they will bodyblock or do gens.
You can down but not hook them? Well I'll bleed them out.
You can down but not hook or bleed them out? Well your mates will let you be on the ground and just do gens because it's no problem that you're on the ground as long as no one else gets hooked.
Give base-ds? now we have survivors that use it offensive like they already do or get slugged.
It's just not a problem you can fix as easy as that. Dcs should stay like they are for the sake of yourself and your mates, no one wants people quitting and ruining your game.
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Are DC people cool? Please cultivate an objective perspective. Your statement is too subjective.
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So basically you say if you get queued up up in a match in Overwatch and as soon as it starts you get downed instantly by a cheater who tbags you and repeats the process over again you would just go like "yeah that game is still fun, I'm staying here".
There plenty of really good ideas on how to resolve the tunneling issue. There was a thread not so long ago about this topic and there were a lot of great ideas how to make tunneling giving the killer no reward anymore while keeping it fair for the killer too.
Just because my initial idea is not easy to implement or not completly thought through doesn't mean we should not think about something. That's basically what these threads are about.
Less frustration for players is going to help the game after all. So finding a way to let people out of miserable matches while not granting penalty free dc's for others is something I would like to see in dbd.
I accept that in my inital description I have not thought enough about people abusing the system. Clearly that should be prevented
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Are tunnel people cool? Please cultivate an objective perspective. Your statement is too subjective
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Tunnel has no choice but to do it if he needs a killer, and he's in the game. DC doesn't need anyone and is abandoning the game. Please don't ignore that premise.
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If you still insist that tunneling is uncool, that's fine. But that's no way to cover up something uglier. Even if you present the second worst thing, it's obvious to everyone what the worst thing is.
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I actually even stay in matches with cheaters and don't even leave then: yes.
But that wasn't the point what I meant with the overwatch-reference, my point was that you don't get a new mate when someone leaves.
Besides that there's a big difference between cheating and tunneling: Tunneling is maybe not a nice way to play, but it's not against any rules or systems at the moment unlike cheating in general.
Welp in the end I didn't see any ideas not abusable until now, but I'm okay with discussing that. I'm just strictly against making leaving easier so that people can leave even more than they already do.
To start on that topic:
I don't think anyone cares about the reward when they're hard-tunneling: They will probably just kill you because they want one specific survivor or anyone at all dead.
Even me as someone that soft-tunnelns (means I will tunnel you when you're the better target and I find you somehow, but I won't search for you specific) wouldn't care about not getting a reward for that survivor, i'd be fine with the things I get for the other 3 or even the win (at least 3 dead).
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I find it really interesting it's primarily killer mains who are against this idea of yours.
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If Killer throws out the match with a little genpop and DCs, everyone will be disappointed. It's the same thing.
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That doesn't even makes sense in the first place.
Look I get you hate people dc'ing and yes it is a bad thing if someone dc's early because it doom's the remaining survivors to loose the match. I lost count of how many times I tried to explain that a free dc on everything was not the intention and have already accepted that the innitial wording was not thought through as people would abuse it.
Tunneling on the other hand is a choice too. As the killer beeing the surpreme force survivors can do very little in solo-q to prevent the tunneling from getting through and becaues they can't coordinate the way swf's do they will probably not finish all gen's either.
So tunneling in solo-q does tilt the chance towards the killer a lot. Saying that loosing to tunneling because you couldn't loop the killer enough is not a valid point as the survivor either might not be that experienced either against that killer or over all, might not have an anti chase or anti tunnel build. But most likely it will fail because they already get hit right after the unhook and now have to escape with very little distance while being deep wounded. On top of that rng might screw him and resources might have been used that he didin't know about.
I just wanted people to have somewhat of a fair way to get out of a miserable match even though it's hard to define what's miserable because dbd and people are subjective and situational.
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I do get what you mean but while the bot replacement being useless half of the time it will at least do gen's if not in chase and rescue you from the hook. So it still is better then nothing. Currently people run to the killer and exit the game via hook. They don't get any penalty and their team is still screwed. If you penalize unaliving yourself on the hook you would have to make it in a way that beginners are not getting penalties all the time as they will most likely miss these skillchecks. People will then probably just go afk or run to the killer. So again nothing really changed, they do not get a penalty. Maybe we need to accept that we cannot bring justice uppon them (aside from reporting).
For your second point. Tunneling is maybe considered a gray area as it is said you can't report for tunneling but technically in the official dbd rules it is stated that "targetting one survivor specifically to ruin his experience is bannable behaviour". So yeah. It may not be forbidden explicitly but it is on the very edge at least.
As someone who plays killer a lot I don't really see a reason for tunneling. I agree with the softtunneling, most of the time I am not going to ignore you just because you ran into me again but thats it. If you are not playing in a tournament I don't get why you would need to proxy camp and tunnel as blight or nurse for example. Most of the time this behaviour was observed by people who have not mastered the power of their killers. This leads to the assumption that they cannot win without tunneling which makes it even sadder to see.
On the topic again:
It might work if you make it rather unrewarding.
There was the idea of the status effect "touched by the entity". By lore the entity feasts on your pain and agony so you could say when you are hooked the entity feasts on you so you are in "contact" with it. It would be active for 60 seconds after being unhooked or deactivate earlier when touching a genereator or being healed completly. The effect goes like this: The survivor has no hitbox collision with the killer. This means the killer can walk straight through him to ensure abusing it with bodyblocks is not possible. While in that status effect, Killer powers do not work on you. The lore explanation is here that the entity would never allow it's killers to turn their powers against it. The first hit from the killer does literally nothing.
Aside from this effect to slow down tunneling a lot while not making it impossible it was suggested that generators will take longer to repair with each consecutive gen being repaired. Second gen needs 10 % longer, third 20 % and so on. This ensures the killer actually has the time to chase for the 12 hook game (which is what the entity would want to maximize the pain it can consume). On the other hand if a survivor dies all remaining survivors will gain a stackable 10 % gen repair boost.
With this tunneling hard would not only cost a lot of time but would also hurt the killer as the survivors gain a repair speed boost. It makes it very unatractive but does not make it impossible to do.
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You leave, you get penalised.
If anything survivor suicide should get removed or atleast penalised too. No skipping the rules for one side only.
Gosh imagine they actually allowed killer to DC like survivor do. There'd be no functional trials except those in which the killer win.
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I assume you haven't read the whole thread. If you panlise suicide they will just run to the killer instead or go afk. People who are like this will not start playing the game all of a sudden.
Killers acutally can dc the way survivors do. The penalty is the same. I don't get your point here
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Yeah that's a good point, but I'll guess making it free would make that people leave over even smaller things. So idk if you want to trade the bots against a dc even more often.
I don't think that rule is made against tunneling as action, I think it's made so that you don't tunnel a specific person every round, so if I see your name in 5 rounds and I'm tunneling every time you.
To the ideas
So basically basekit-otr without bodyblocking? It doesn't say specificly I couldn't down him, just that the first hit is denied.
Well hard-tunneling killer would probably still tunnel them then. And combined with the system that gens are slower as more people are alive: I would probably slugg deathhook-survivors in general for additional preassure on the gens. So idk if this is the right direction, it reduces tunneling but hightens slugging, there no reason not to slugg. You're bleeding out eventually AND if they don't let you someone has to leave gens AND for the remaining one's the gens are still just as fast as he'd be alive.
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I think you bring up issues that should all have different solutions and 5 free DCs is not going to be a fix-all solution to all of them, you would still have people giving up on hook because they hate the killer and many people do this to troll the team or throw a tantrum and not only to dodge DC penalties.
Being tunneled is frustrating but there are perks to help mitigate tunneling and practice looping in tiles will help survivors punish killers who waste time tunneling. 3-gen problem is three-fold: bad gen spawn/gen map placement and survivors lack of awareness on not 3-genning themselves, for ex. if killer tries to actively hold a 3-gen a lot of survivors don't have the patience to try to break it and just go do other gens, instigating the 3-gen problem themselves. The solution is survivors need to be more aware of gen location and be more proactive about breaking 3-gens instead of lazily going to do a far of gen because it's more convenient.
Slugging needs to have a look at by the devs, maybe activating a basekit form of unbreakable only if all survivors are slugged and only if they're close to bleeding out, and limit to only 1 of the survivors. This can also be problematic so maybe it's not the answer but I also think giving people 5 free DCs just to help this issue will not help the other ones I mentioned above.
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Still, the survivors believed that the 3-gen problem could not be solved by soloQ, so they relied on the management to try to solve it. This is deplorable.
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If you enjoy the game so little that you DC that often, then dbd might not be the right game for you.
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