Why is 4% self unhook necessary?
I genuinely just wanna hear a good reasoning as to why survivors need that built in basekit second chance.
I’m not exaggerating when I say in every game I play there’s one 4% self unhook, it’s gotten so bad that I’ll wait till the entity take one person then go and actually pick the second person up to hook just so I don’t have to deal with the hassle that 4% brings
So yes I just want one good reason as to why it’s a necessity, thank you.
Comments
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Because it can completely swing the game.
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Because outdated design is ok for survivors but not killers. Simple as 3 gen was outdated? Nerfed hook grabs outdated? Nerfed there's no reason why a survivor should just be able to jump off the hook and then get endurance and haste none (zero)
The devs talked about how awkward gen grabs were why don't they address how awkward the 4% is? If I have someone slugged and someone's on first hook (when everyone else has been killed) I'm gonna stand there and wait and see if they get off first before picking the slug up which just wastes everyone's time imagine if there was a mechanic where if you escaped there's a 4% chance to just get insta hooked on the other side of the map you think that would fly?
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Because it is a chance. A survivor's desperate attempt to escape and it can create some interesting plays.
It is so iconic that killers even had an unwritten rule of respecting the 4%, letting players go if they managed to kobe. That doesn't really happen anymore, but the mechanic's importance remains.
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Okay, I know I'm about to sound so stuck up right now, but really? In old DBD you'd get downed by a Billy revving his saw in a quarter of a second and then killed instantly cause he brought an ebony mori. As killer you'd lose 2 gens and then the entire team would escape because somebody brought a key. This game has had some of the most extremely onesided metas I've ever seen in a competitive environment, and now we're complaining about the 4% unhook?
Does anyone remember when Boil Over on RPD literally gave survivors an area on the map where they were guaranteed to escape from the Killer's shoulder, or when Ruin made gens nigh unrepairable until it was cleansed?
I mean, honestly, the 4% unhook is what's ruining your experience? Not BNP, not the vast multitude of exhaustion and second chance perks, the 4% chance that usually gets survivors killed when their forced into situations that make them desperate enough to try it? Really?
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as rude, but wow, this is a new one.
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Oh I love you already, spot on
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so survivors can dc without penalty
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Because there is no issue with this mechanic. Just because you hate it, it does not make it bad.
If devs see problem with it, they will change it. But they don't.
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Okay, give me one good reason why it shouldn't be in the game.
It should stay because:
- DBD is inherently a luck based game, where randomness is baked into every element of it, from map generation to skill checks. Giving the opportunity to 4% (which is just under 12% chance to escape per survivor iirc) not only increases the fun factor but increases this randomness. If you don't want to play a game where random chance can swing a game, don't play dbd.
- Killer is piss easy right now. So easy I get bored. You mean to tell me we fought through double pallets, pallet vacuum, old DH, DH valedation, window vacuum, literal infinites on every map, no entity blocker, literally triple the pallets, literally double the map sizes, old BNP, old old BNP, old COH, old SB, no Exhaustion, no slowdown besides Ruin, being unable to regress gens, 60 second gens, etc etc. and the best we can complain about now is a four percent chance?! Girl be so for real right now
- It realistically isn't a "second chance". Sure, if you squint and stretch that definition as far as it can go, it's a second chance, but by that very stretched definition:
- Head on is a second chance perk because you should've been grabbed from the locker.
- MedKits are second chance items because you should stay injured
- PGTW/PR are second chance perks because you should just kick the gen normally
- Deadlock/GE are second chance perks because you gain more time you wouldn't normally have
- Balanced Landing is a second chance perk, the stagger exists for a reason
- Billy's Overdrive is a second chance mechanic, you get rewarded for overrevving
- Pig's boxes are second chance mechanics, you get rewarded for losing gens
And so I hope you'll see that by this very liberally applied definition of "second chance" we can classify a lot of things as a second chance, which sort of waters down any impact the phrase may have.
Post edited by GoodBoyKaru on16 -
Because those mechanics keep the game exciting and winnable till the end. With those i mean Kobe and Hatch.
Think about MOBAs. Giving up after 15 minutes is not an umcommon thing there. Often times one team is so far behind, that a chance of come back is pretty much zero.
In DBD, while it is rare, the 4% stands for hope. Imagine if there would not be Kobe and Hatch, survivors would give up super quick if things are going wrong. It is important to leave some extra hope in the game to create a more positive and more active mindset.
Also, dear killer mains, EMBRACE those elements. Without Hatch and Kobe, survivor would sit on 30% winrate, guaranteed. I highly doubt, maps would be that small, pallets would be that less and survivor perks would be that weak without kobe and hatch.
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Because it's hilarious and peak gameplay.
BHVR seems to get off to the idea of DBD becoming a competitive esports title, so if you're hoping for the 4% and other fun gimmicks to be removed, you're in luck because they want their game to be competitive.
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A genuinely good reason for it to exist - fun. That's a thing games are meant to be. 4% is 1 in 25. You arent getting one or two every match. I see people try to kobe in nearly every game im in and it almost always ends in them getting the second stage express. Its a fun mechanic that can completely 180 a game the survivors were almost certain to lose.
I hope they buff it so that each attempt stacks probability 😏
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If four survivors try to break free from the hook three times, the probability of success at least once is about 39%.
There is a reason why such comebacks occur more often in matches where the killer dominates.
I actually know of a game where all four survived until the gate was energized and three people escaped from the gate.
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There is actually zero way it's happening once per game.
It should stay because it's funny and if funny things ruin your experience more than toxic people, OP things etc etc; that's a you thing.
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The fact that the 4% chance of escaping a hook is a thing to complain about as killer tells you everything you need to know about the state of the game.
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Killers who correctly understand probability problems do the same.
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I think, the only time, it beccomes problematic is when 4 luck offerings and more then 3 slippery meat and up the ante are in play. Almost a 70 - 80% rate for a free unhook is not "nice" to play against. There is a reason of why deliverance has a huge requirement.
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Because it's fun?
If you've ever self unhooked near to an exit gate for a very cheeky last moment escape, then you'd know that.
Fun is reason enough for something to be in a video game, no? Besides, I've probably self unhooked 20 times in well over a thousand games (and it's only actually mattered to my chance of survival on less than 5 of those occasions).
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Does the game more harm than good with every second or third game in solo queue having someone try kill themselves on hook.
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That's not problem either. They are playing with niche builds for very meh value.
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The concept of thematic reasons is foreign to many.
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It's a bit more nuanced then that. I'd a survivor gave me a good game, some fun chases and then kobe, I still nod at them and let them off the hook, but I expect them not to unhook the others and will chase them and shake my head. Sometimes you see them plead for a certain survivor, probably their duo SWF friend, and I usually allow that unhook, too. But if they start to unhook unconditionally, then everyone is fair game.
BUT (here comes the but) 9/10 of the time it's that obnoxious survivor that t-bagged and flashy clicked you at every opportunity and really was a log between your legs the whole game, that miraculously pass their 4% chance and you can bet your ares off that I'll hunt them down and put them on the hook again.
In the end, kobe is a hope mechanic that is in the game to offer survivors at least a small chance in unsurmountable dire situations, but the chances are actually not that bad when you got a "Myers/Oni downed everyone at the exit gates" situation, that was a stellar play of the killer, and then they get shot in the leg by the 4%, that feels really awful and unearned: survivors massively misplaced, yet get off the hook, literally, by the roll of a die.
Just imagine if a killer had a 4% chance to instantly down and mori a survivor, if they got less then 3 hooks and the EGC starts. People would bemoan this lucky hope mechanic rightfully. But on the other hand, it happens so rarely that my whole match devolves around one lucky kobe, and killers are in such a good spot generally, that I actually don't mind enough.
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Yeah, but playing against 4xDH, 4x MFT, 4x UB is much much more "not nice to play against", so I don't mind this kind of builds. Heck, I tried such a 55% unhooking build myself, and my buddy laughed at me the whole night how I slipped into 2nd stage tome and time again.
But my SWF and me have a fun lil ritual: when we come to the unhook, we will point and nod at the hook one and dare them to kobe. They get one try, then we unhook each other. Its playfully toxic for onlookers, but totally fun for ourselves.
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This community is so confusing. In every other discussion, no one can come up with a single reason why the 4% mechanic exists. Now here, there's a whole list of reasons.
The other thing that confuses me is that so many people claim that the 4% mechanic is outdated, but no one can explain how. When the ranking system that was used for matchmaking was changed to a monthly grading system that has nothing to do with matchmaking, the depipping mechanic no longer made sense. That is an example of an outdated mechanic. However, nothing has changed about hooks to render the 4% mechanic outdated. The only thing that's changed is the addition of scourge hooks, and maybe some hook spawn locations, but that does not affect the 4% in any way, shape, or form.
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Totally agree friend & I will absolutely let anyone who gets the 4% go if everyone is hooked & they somehow get off they earned that luck it for me.
As for orginal post i'm sorry you get so annoyed by it but its a virtual statistical impossibility that it happens in every game its a high improbability it even happens in half of games.
Good reason for it? Not entirely sure I have one but having all 4 survivors slugged & then hooked on first hook if one of them gets the 4% luck was on their side end of, fair when the killer has won the game maybe not & a fair argument i've just never had an issue with it.
Though I'd swap the self unhook for 2 use deliverence personally.
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That sounds like fun.
I'm not against the removal of the kobe. But it could see some fine tuning.
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So you aren’t really looking for answers; you’re seeking validation. Why not phrase the topic as such? “I’m not looking for answers or discussion, I want an echo chamber where what I think is right is validated by others.” You could have saved a lot of people’s keystrokes here.
The 4% exists to twist up the knickers of people who despise any sort of survivor agency.
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They didn't even take the easy route of pretending to care about the survivor experience that most killers do when asking for self unhooking to be removed.
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That sounds accurate. Heaven forbid that Survivors should be allowed to have a second chance when it's already near impossible to turn the game around when things are going badly for them. Killers, on the other hand, can turn the game around much more easily after a bad start. Heck, even NOED alone can do that.
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I don’t really see what’s wrong with it hell when a survivor gets that last minute 4% right before the 2nd to last person dies it’s an awesome clutch
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Well, my friend, I think it depends on when the kobe happened and who managed to do it. Even back in the day, the 4% wasn't always respected. A toxic survivor was always unlikely to be granted mercy, regardless of their lucky kobe.
And of course, no killer would throw the game just because one survivor got lucky, but sometimes you get that scenario where the killer can have mercy towards a survivor who managed to kobe, without losing the game in the process. The "rule" applied to those situations, but it doesn't happen often anymore. Most of the time they just wait close to the hook to see if you will escape, and if you do you're just dead.
Same, my friend! I really don't mind letting a survivor go if they managed to kobe. They definitely earned their escape.
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It gives someone a chance to keep playing, and killer to get second hook points. Win-win.
It's especially when teammates are the self types so focus on them and their own points they leave teammates to die. I can't count the number of times I've had bad luck and the game has literally just started and I'm hooked and I'm waiting and waiting and no teammate is doing gens or anything - and no one comes. Then they start doing gens and Imma just hanging. I'm lucky if someone finally comes after I'm near the end of the second hook. Now, if I see that - I just try to help myself to off.
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It disrespects all the opportunities that came before the “second chance.” Whether or not the survivors realize this is the dividing line between whether they think they have an advantage or a disadvantage against the M1 killer.
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I think we have different definitions of what "problematic" is.
I wouldn't consider survivors bringing 4 offerings and 8 perks for a chance to unhook themselves once throughout the entire trial "problematic". If you're not waiting next to the hook, the value of self unhooking is negligible. Yes, the rest of survivors can keep doing gens, but you still have to heal yourself or do gens wounded, and both options require perks to mitigate the shortcomings of having half your build oriented to that one chance to escape. You're not getting gens done much faster nor surviving chases for so much longer with the options we have.
Self unhook, even with entire builds dedicated to it, is an entirely harmless, almost non-existent mechanic. And the cost you have to pay to make it somewhat reliable is definitely not proportional to the benefits you get when it does work - a clear indicator of something not being "problematic" by any stretch of the imagination.
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You might just be unlucky in your games if this happens to you numerous times. Just because they got off the unhook doesn't means an escape. You can still get them downs.
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4% or not i would still try to unhook myself on a hopeless losing game. Im not here to help the killer get off on bullying with their top 5 killer and their slow down stacking.
the second they remove unhooking more than 30% of the player base would quit
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Wish I got you as my killer more often 😭
Seems like every time I have an incredible game, I 4% into a killer who lets one or more survivors bleed out while I run them for another 4+ minutes, praying hatch spawns favorably.
Naturally I make a comment in post-game chat, and am swiftly reminded that I was "outplayed."
Killer has its moments, but it really feels like people are completely oblivious to how demoralizing solo survivor can be.
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You can easily play around it when you know it's in play, and you will.
I've gone against this build and it's just been down after down because everyone is eager to use their slippery meat chances.
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"I’m not exaggerating when I say in every game I play there’s one 4% self unhook"
Yeah right!
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I doubt everyone is unhooking themselves so often on a 4%, most likely using perks and offerings to help, however I will agree the self-unhook is just as outdated as hook grabs or 3-gens to me.
Mainly because survivors use it to circumvent the DC penalty.
That said, I wouldn't remove it without giving some kinda tradeoff. Maybe some mechanic so the hooked survivor can warn nearby survivors the killer is camping? Not sure what that would be, but wouldn't that be better than a way to easily give up and mess your team up?
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I’m not exaggerating when I say in every game I play there’s one 4% self unhook
The literal definition of exaggeration. You’re either the actual unluckiest person in the world or you’re lying. 100% chance it’s the latter.
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The problem with it is free dc's.
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I think it is fine to add some spice to matches. It is a risk with a potential reward. With that being said it should not be possible in endgame . A 4% in endgame can lead to a free escape you as the killer can't do nothing about. Otherwise it is fine tough
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Yeah there is no good reason for it to still exist. It's an outdated mechanic. I think perks like Deliverance and Slippery Meat should exist, but they should be the only things (for now) that allow Survivors to attempt a self-unhook.
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That's player issue here, not mechanic. If you remove this, they will find different way to leave the game. Like running to killer for example. You can't fix players if they don't want to stay.
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“How dare these new gens complain about 4%?!! Let me list a bunch of things us OGs had to go through!! That’ll really show em!”
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Yes doubt someone’s experience because you definitely lived them
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I'm saying that yelling over a mechanic that works in your favor 96% of the time in a game known for its horrendous balancing is silly. The sheer number of other issues in this game is staggering, and you're acting as if the 4% unhook is a pressing issue. It's really not in my eyes, and I'd say most people here are agreeing with that assessment.
You can make as many overtop jokes at my expense as you wish, it isn't selling your point.
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No you're exaggerating a lot it happens way too much on this forum. What you are saying is simply not true. Just like "I get Wesker in every game I play" and such we hear from time to time.
Play 10 games in a row and record and watch it for yourself. What you say will happen in 1-2 games of these not more, probably less. Thing is these are the games you will remember and then it's "every game"..no that is your brain playing tricks on you.
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I mean, if I say, "I get mori'd by Sadako every match" people are rightfully gonna be questioning that since it's so unlikely statistically speaking.
Also, as an aside, I saw you replied to me but I can't seem to find it here
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Yeah but people running/chasing into the killer be ruled as griefing and then get a temp ban. Bhvr with their "we dont want to assum anything" means you cant report people who suicide on first hook. You can't fix it but at LEAST punish people for it.
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