Badham Preschool (Springwood)
Comments
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This is the most survivor-sided set of maps in the game imo.
There are multiple strong buildings for survivors which don't encourage much skill expression for either side and it's often quite easy to chain a filler pallet into a strong building, or vice versa to save a stronger building pallet for later. (There's an example of this below.) The presence of several buildings as well as plenty of filler objects/bushes/etc. throughout the map also makes it very easy for survivors to hide on these maps (easier than most maps). Generators can be difficult for the killer to patrol since 3 of them are on different elevation from the ground (either above or below). This map can also be difficult for killers who use lockers as part of their power, since lockers only appear in buildings (and in the small hut near one of the buildings).
The main building is an absolute nightmare when dealing with Boil Over and/or sabotage, especially if the basement appears in the shack. It can be very easy to make the killer unable to hook anyone who runs down to the lower floor. On the other hand, a survivor getting hooked in the basement in main building can put survivors in a very difficult position since it's basically a double-basement in a way.
There are also sometimes pallet spawns very close together, such as this example from Badham II where there are 4 filler pallets all surrounding and in close proximity to the killer shack, not including the actual shack pallet (the 4th one is on the opposite side of the shack just outside of Zanshin range):
I also feel that having 5 different versions of this map when the changes mostly amount to just slightly changing the map's shape and moving the same buildings and pallets around is just unnecessary and makes it very difficult for new players (both survivor and killer) to learn the map.
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It feels a lot like all the houses and the main building is extremely survivors-sided. They always run the main buildings and there is probably a reason for that.
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I like this map as survivor. It could be more look like a school. I'ts helpful that it has high buildings.
As killer I don't understand the breakable walls (in other maps too). Mostly you need to break the one at the stairs for the hook. If I could instantly break them while stealthed to surprise survivor, that would be funny.
Beside that there are strong loops and it takes time to patrol the gens.
Not using many hexes but I think the hex spots are too easy to find.
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These are easily the most survivor sided maps in the game, they’re big, there are so many strong loops next to each other, and 4 strong buildings that can spawn on one map, with each one having a gen at a different elevation, which makes it very hard to patrol them, like you can have 2 basement gens across the map from each other, 1 second floor gen, and a shack gen, and shack can be surrounded by 4 pallets and still have shack pallet, it’s crazy, it needs to be smaller or the 2 extra buildings other then shack and main can’t spawn on the map at the same time, and less strong pallets around shack please
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2nd best Survivor sided map Main building has 2 god pallets a god fence vault outside with 3 strong pallets surrounding main building no mind games are able to counter and just wastes alot of time for the killer
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It is probably the most busted realm in the game, all variants have the same 3 very strong structures, the house of pain is still ridiculous, the bigger house offers some rather strong windows if the doors are not broken and the upstairs loop is also really strong. Then we have the main building with 2 really strong pallets and a "you cannot hook me area" in the basement if the basement spawns in shack... And if you break the one door in main the garden door loop becomes even stronger. To add insult to injury the map has so many pallets often spread in a way similar to old cowshed... I often times had a variant with like 5-6 pallets around shack all interconnect able, if you as killer try to chase there and the survivor is somewhat decent, and you are not playing a good anti loop killer the game will be over before you get a down, it is ridiculous how busted the map is.
Basically the only good thing about the realms is that some cars are slide able, which adds depth to how you play the loop and I think is fun for both sides. But overall the maps are just soooo horrible, no clue how it stayed like this for long without getting changed.
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Everything in this map heavily favours survivors, it needs a rework with the purpose of balance
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4 out of 5 variations are a killer's nightmare, and one is not as bad, but still bad. If the basement is not in the school, the large room there becomes a heaven for Boil Over gamers as there is no hook close enough. Even if you break the walls. And if you do that just to be safe in that regard.... then you open up very strong loops (fence and car) to the school.
In general the loops are often too well connected and the gens not well to defend.
The 2 story building could use some variation on where the gen may spawn. Before the rework years ago it could spawn downstairs (left of the stairs) or upstairs (single room or at the top of the stairs next to the window).
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1st and foremost, it seems really weird to me that there's 5 variations of the map, the only thing that changes is the actual size or the map.
Badham maps II, IV, V are extremely large since buildings are spread further. These buildings are extremely strong to the point that the Breakable doors that were installed to make them easier only make them stronger. Badham maps also have a decent density of filler pallets that are decently strong and the hitboxes of most of the surfaces are extremely large, making some Killer powers unusable
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Generally favors survivors by a long shot. The basement of main is too long and features 1/2 strong pallets plus a fence loop just outside the school, and 3 pallets in short proximity. The school needs to have access to The Basement hooks at all times, or be extended to feature hooks inside the main building. The fence window should instead become a pallet as it disproportionately affects killer powers.
Tall trees around the houses should be replaced with shorter fences, as these also make it too difficult to catch and chase survivors. The generator inside of houses and main should spawn on the ground floor, and feature some form of destruction similar to The Decimated Borgo. If the buildings were partially destroyed tk reveal survivors working on the generators it would make it far less frustrating to patrol, especially without worrying about audio occlusion.
The backyard/street pallet loops are fine.
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also please just add a hook that always spawns in the basement of the main building.
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map is literally old haddonfield 2.0 with one of the easiest way to exploit the hook spawns to make main building a safe spot to go down , not to mentions the insane amount of good pallets that the map can spawn close to shack.
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While I think everything was said about this map, it bears repeating;
Main building, against weaker/M1 Killers, is one of the closest things to an infinite we still have. Add that with the vault in front of main and at least two pallets around it and it's the go-to spots to run Killers for ages, not to mention the fences which Survivors can run much better than those Killers.
If basement doesn't spawn in main building, Survivors can almost always guarantee to wiggle from the Killer's grasp if they fall in the underground part of main unless the Killer brought Iron Grasp and/or Agitation. A Survivor with Boil Over can fully guarantee to be unhookable unless those perks were brought.
I believe that a single hook in the underground part of main (if basement doesn't spawn there) and a slight weakening of main building and it's surroundings in general would be a good first step.
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We need to pick just 1 or 2 of the alt versions of the map and remove the rest or give each variant something to make it stand out besides just being a different layout.
The map also features a lot of strong tiles, namely the buildings that can absolutely waste a killers time, the two story building is a nightmare unless you take the time to break both walls and even then the upstairs pallet can be painful with the windows leading out of it.
"hell house" can consistently spawn with the back window open next to a breakable wall, meaning it's incredibly strong and often combos right into another window directly next to it which often itself can lead into another strong tile depending on the layout you get and which realm variant you get.
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Badham is a strong contender for the worst map in the game. It's huge, almost every gen is tucked away behind some kind of obnoxious line-of-sight blocker that requires you to get within audio range just to tell if people are working on it or not, there are 4 buildings that make for very strong, reusable tiles, the area outside of those buildings is a barren wasteland once the ambulance pallets are broken...
If you down someone in the boiler room and basement isn't there, then you need to make main building even stronger by breaking one of the walls just to be able to reach a hook. And god forbid a sabo squad with Exponential or Buckle Up + For the People or whatever puts up a Pied Piper and a Bloodied Blueprint.
Also, there are hypothetically five variants of the map and I genuinely could not tell you the differences between any of them, and I have 2,000 hours in the game plus thousands more hours watching other people play it, wiki-diving, talking/writing about it, dissecting its design, etc.
I don't even like playing this map as survivor. Every chase is just a flowchart based on which gen I was working on when the killer found me. It's boring. There are no interesting decisions to make because all of the gameplay centers around a series of buildings that only really have one way to play them and very little mindgame potential.
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A lot of the feedback on all the threads has been very solid and good. I hope this actually goes somewhere and isn't seen to be doing/false appeasement because that would be a shame (yet completely unsurprising).
Like this map by far is overwhelmingly one of the most that needs to be changed majorly and has been since I started playing almost 2 years ago so probably a lot longer. If this doesn't happen meaningfully at the very least or somehow is even made more survivor sided (which again would be completely unsurprising) well the occasional bit of faith that I have in this game that happens when a step in the right direction is taken (like these threads) will be extinguished (again).
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Every feature on the map is a strong, safe building.
Shack is shack, how has shack not been changed in all this time? At the very least make the back wall solid and not have big gaps for the survivor to see you through.
The house of pain is still one of the safest places in the game for survivor, with a god pallet directly into a window in most setups.
The 2 story house isn't as good, but still has lots of open windows to vault making it easy for survivors to gain ground while moving between buildings.
The main building is a goddamn hell-loop. The strong window outside, the TWO god pallets inside, and the long narrow corridors that have no potential for mindgames are all crap features.
This map shows why breakable pallet walls were abandoned. They're either must-break walls like the 2 story house, wasting the killer's time, or they're unbreakable, like the main building, unless you want to make broken loops even more broken.
It is genuinely hard to not instantly give up as killer when you spawn on these maps.
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Simply put Badham has always had the downsides of indoor maps while being enormous and filled with too many strong loops. Every chase takes place in a strong building or at 3-5 filler tiles interconnected like outside shack on Badham 2. The tall bushes make for horrible line of sight blockers and the round loops unlike normal dbd tile loops make it difficult for many killers to try and use their power around. Also the sound occlusion makes in impossible to hear most gen progress from right outside of a building with a near completed generator. Remove some of the LOS blockers, make the buildings weaker, fix the sound occlusion, and remove 4 of the variants. Preferable Badham 1 or 4 would be the new only variant. That would make this map bearable. Thanks.
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Map completely favors survivor as the map tends to be pretty big and you have A TON of safe loops to work with as survivor
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This map is a well-known exploit for bully/sabo squads who bring boil over/flip flop and camp the preschool knowing they will never get hooked, and will hold the game hostage and grief the killer. This map goes beyond favoring survivors, it is a bully squad's haven.
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One of the most Survivor sided map ever. Huge, super safe, super connected, confusing 5?! Different versions of this nightmare, The main building itself is Heaven for Survivors and if there is no basement down there good luck.
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This map is a Nightmare for killers. The buildings are quite strong, almost impossible to mindgame (specially against good survivors), with many "god pallets" inside them.
Also, i think the underground portion of the map is a nightmare too: there is a very strong pallet, the corridors are too narrow (you can easily get stuck into something) and, if the basement is not in the main building, no hooks can be spawned there. For certain killers like Blight or the Knight this map can be one of their worst experiences in the game.
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To many strong building for one map. The main building bottom floor can easilly have unhookable spots if the basement doesn't spawn there and the survivor has boil over etc. to many los breakers. Honestly this map has a bit of everything that helps survivors.
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Loop chaining heaven or hell depending on your role. Everything is connected to something almost everywhere on pretty much all of these maps.
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Definitely a survivor sided map. The big things are: if basement is at shack then mid basement is super strong, the inter building pallets are all super strong/without counterplay, the map is really large, there’s 5 variations of the map that only slightly change the building layouts which do nothing but make it harder for newer players. Not the worst but map balance wise but nowhere neat the top.
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Alright I feel I should say this if you are listening bhvr awesome. All the Badham maps are 95% Survivors sided it has 4 God buildings one of the worst offenders is the school. That whole building needs a rework its worse then Garden of Joys house. I wish I could face a dev on here as a survivor and you pick any killer I guarantee you will waste so much time on there. (That isn't an insult its just show the map is busted. It requires zero effort to loop or use I wouldn't even call it looping a player who just started in a week could use it doesn't promote even proper looping you just hold w. I abuse that because its super easy you hop the white fence go around to a god pallet by the left side where the car is or if the door is open just re loop the fence over and over again or you can go down stairs where there are just pre droppable pallets no risk hold w. Lets not also take into account that basement doesn't spawn down there all the time if it doesn't no hooks spawns down stairs which they should at least 2 it is abusable by bully squad's that use wiggle builds and just run down stairs you can't bleed them out unless you want a over 30 to 40 or an hour game of no mither and unbreakable flip flop etc... It has Shack which is fine its shack. Every loop is safe and chains to another I don't think there really is an unsafe pallet but it also has two buildings one house with a huge hedge surrounding it this house has two floors and multiple windows and door entrances the house is super strong and the next one is another one similarly shaped. I think the map needs an entire rework and fix. I love on Lery's that two basements spawn i think Badham needs two basements most maps do all main buildings a shacks should have it or at least make it an offering to spawn two basements also maybe bring back the moonlight offerings they were so pretty and cool looking gave the game another depths of atmosphere . I think its a great addition to the game Idk if its a glitch but it makes it more fun and scary as well. Everytime I play killer on the map I know what is going to happen how the survivors are gonna loop all range killers it a nightmare for who run at 4.4 if you are huntress on here good luck so much stuff to get in your way its the one map I lose often on my worst map other then Lery's. I think removing some building and fixing the school I would think be adequate enough.
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This map isn't the worst until you realize Boil Over and sitting in the bottom of main basically makes you unhookable. Otherwise the map is fine. It's got good loops and unsafe loops, and the houses can be fun to play around, well if you aren't playing Blight. If anything maybe add a hook to the bottom of main, or just decrease the amount of pallets.
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It is suspected that this map variation exists to slightly increase the odds of getting the killer to reach the worst map.
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Amazing survivor map but awful killer map with 4 god houses, a shack, and at least 5 chainable loops on shack side of the map, it is also one of the easiest maps in the game to be stealthy on so that's god for the few stealthy killers but all survivors not running bright cosmetics.
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Honestly suck map foor killers
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First of all, why do they all have 3 main buildings, and all 3 wildly strong?
Main is hold W heaven and a huge time waster, plus if basement doesn't spawn there it can make survivors unhookable, since you often have to choose between breaking a wall and create an infinite but take the hook, or not open the infinite but leave the survivor slugged.
Does also main need to be reinforced by TWO different car loops and a pallet on the back? (as bad as that pallet is).
Two story can be made bearable by breaking the two walls, but also depends on which windows spawn. Sometimes breaking those walls (why two? ain't I already wasting enough time between the other two main buildings?) makes the downstairs unplayable for survivors, sometimes changes very little.
House of pain: it's in the name no? Best part is when window on the back and window into basement spawn next to each other, making this a proper infinite - not that other setups are that much weaker. I'd rather chase main than house of pain most of the time.
Also, all of these gifts of gods are interconnected by pallets that, if the killer is lucky, are not 100% safe and not spaced at an approximate distance of 2 metres from each other, but the opposite is more common.
Since the map is clearly still too weak we also have shack, that can - you guessed it - be interconnected to pallets with perfect visibility.
But what can be worse than this map? Five of it, of course.
Only positive point: they are all on the smaller size and the color palette is a joy for the eyes.
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This is the most survivor sided realm and I believe it can not be easy put in pair with the rest.
A lot of the filler palet loops are really safe and the road ones make especially huge impact since they often connects to the building, (unironically Garden of Joy have actually well balanced road tiles). Speaking of buildings: house of pain (basement one) sucks and its name speak for itself, should definitely be upgraded to the Haddonfield version; the two story building is of but I would also prefer to replace it with one of the Haddonfield ones for the sake of consistency; The main building... that is a tricky one to judge I got used to it, but I see many people do not.When it comes map shapes. I expect that there will be only one variant in the future since it is a little odd currently. I visually like I and IV a little more than the other, but it is only a mild preference.
I also feel obligated to mention that despite its terrible balance if has great lighting. Not to dark, not to bright.
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Very strong map for survivors with connected tiles, but a lot of the tiles just become dead zones once pallets are gone think a lot of maps just need ro have more built in vaults over a pallet that turns into a dead zone when gone. Over all though survivor sided against most killers
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This map is awful to play as killer.
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Get a hook in the main building downstairs boiler room. And the map is such a pain for killers anyways so fix that
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For a map that has 5 variants they all seeem to be very survivor sided.
At least 2 of the 5 should be reduced in size to favour killers more. (My vote would be rotating a houses in each IV and V to enable you to shorten the map length by one tile)
When the basement spawns in the killer shack, there should be a hook in the school basement where the basement entrance would be.
Reduce the amount of fence coverage, shortening or removing certain fences/hedges.
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Survivor sided. Give us Robert Englund Freddy. Not sure who that is we have in the game currently that is named "freddy", but it doesn't look like him to me..
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Main building is too strong for survivors. If they put in the offering to spawn the basement in the shack, they can abuse the basement of the main building and you can't get them to a hook when downed if they run boil over, flip flop, etc...
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Scary. Eerie. It nails the feeling of “something not quite right in suburbia”. You can tell a great evil has occurred just by the hue of the sky. The preschool looks sad and the basement of it radiates evil. Massive success.
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All five variants feel bad to play on, there's no reason for Badham to have this many versions. Looks bad and boring visually, too. Can't see a damn thing on this map most of the time because of how aggressively dim and drab it is.
Have experienced Boil Over + Flip Flop survivor sabo squads on this map that abuse the school basement's lack of hooks to become unhookable, as others have also mentioned. Another reason it's one of the worst maps in the game.
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All five variants of Badham Preschool feel very survivor sided but one is more avarage, three and five a little bit better for killers, and two and four are extremly survivor sided.
- All of these maps are very big which hurts every killer without great mobility because it takes so much time to reach a generator or the next action. two and four have the issue that the maps are bigger which takes killers even more time to reach something. In general, for killers most of the time you are too far from the action.
- The mainbuilding (Preschool) is very big and it feels so boring to chase a survivor there because you need so much time to catch up. In addition, if you don't have the killer-basement there and the survivor goes down in the basemant, you are forced to break one breakable wall which makes the mainbuilding more painful to chase around because you give the survivors more opputunities to escape out of the building/to loop you around it, especially if you have to open the door with the car-loop next to it. Lastly, the mainbuilding has also three very safe paletts for survivors which is very huge.
- The double storehouse is a strong loop with three reliable strong windows that can extend a chase pretty good. Some killers are forced to break both walls to make this spot weaker but this gives the survivor enough time to run away and catching up on this map is very difficult for many killers. It is basically a lose lose situation for the killer.
- The house of pain has also great windows that survivors can use very well to waste killers time - dependent on the rng the windows can be either good or great. The pallet down there is also very safe against many killers.
- The shack on it's own is a typical loop place but on these maps, the shack has always either good filler paletts or strong loops next to it which is brutal of many killers when they have to deal with a shack that is connected into strong loops or that a survivor can easily reach the shack by using the filler paletts/loops around the shack.
- Overall, the map has always four building which hurts many killers because these cannot use their power well in these buildings.
- The map can have 17 paletts which is brutal because survivors can easier waste and predrop paletts because there are so many of them.
- It is also very hard for killers to check and defend generators because they are spread out very far, difficult to reach, and in strong spots - one in the basement of the school, one in the basement of the house of pain, one in the double storehouse, and one in or near the check. The generators on the street often spwan next to good loops or the strong building. This also means survivors can find generators very easily since their spawns are reliable.
tl;tr: The maps are too big, the building are too strong, the generators are difficult to reach and defend, 17 paletts is too much, and loops are often connected very well.
Little sidenote:
To be honest, we don't need five different variants of the same map. It is the same with the McMillan variants, they are just confusing and unnecessary. It would be great if we had one Badham map, this is more than enough. You, the developers, add at least four maps per year and the more maps we have the harder to learn will be this game, especially for newer player. The best way, in my opinion, would be to make the variant one more balanced for both side and the variants two to five can go into the tash. This would safe so much time and it would be less confusing for players to learn five different versions of the same map.
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Very survivor sided map. Lots of strong loops, lots of pallets, big map, a lot of LOS blockers which is helpful against ranged but can be good for stealth killers assuming that the survivors don't go to a nearby pallet. The main building breakable walls don't really make sense and the house that has breakable walls don't really work that well either. The basement in main building is pretty strong for killers once the pallets are broken. I'm honestly surprised this map hasn't gotten more changes to it since the realm beyond.
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Easily a Survivor sided map, the Breakable Walls placement do not favor the killer one bit in in the main building or any of the houses, that is literally copycat from old Haddonfield before the rework. It is possible, to create a infinite window with that fence window and nearby 3 God pallets. The gens are spreading out, so it is easily difficult for any killer to do a 3 gen or any gen defense without a build and a plan for it. This map not only need to be shrunk down, but also they need Rework both buildings completed from scratch. The Breakable Walls is absolutely a joke, as they tend to favor the killer more if left unbroken; then the intended purpose of making loops unsafe original. Those Breakable Walls left intact, especially if the basement spawns in the school basement makes camping the school and deny any safe unhooked much more risky and favor the killer in thar aspect. Everything else about the map is survivors sided.
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These maps can be big and the smaller ones still are bad because its the same strength of stuff but closer together. All 3 builds are safe with god pallets and strong windows. Each building including shack have a lot of connecting pallets all safe pallets except the 3 that connect to the school. Long fences are really rough. Bushes hurt killers that use collision like blight, billy, bubba, ghostface.
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Absolutely terrible map for killer. Instant restart of game if I see a map offering for it.
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It's not a secret you could easily abuse Boil Over in the basement parts of the map, same with Haddonfield. It would entice Killer's to slug that person to bleed to death. I would know, I was the one he slugged. They need to do something about that. Other than that, I don't see any issues... besides everything else. The vaults, the pallets, the windows, collision, everything is just cluttered and there's too many safe points for Killers to keep track of. Even if this gets fixed, I doubt anyone would miss it if we ever get an OG Freddy map, if it's possible. (Please let it happen, I don't care about this map. Just give us OG Freddy!!!)
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its just awful to see 4 pallets nearby shack most of them good, and the main building needs a change, the window loop vs some kllers is a masive time waste, also its a big map so it takes years to patrol gens with some 4.4ms killers
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literally the most OP map in the entire game, you literally can´t do nothing about it, 3 thousand pallets everywhere, 4 main buildings (school, shack, house of pain and main house), giga gigantic map, it´s insane how badham and borgo are in the same game tbh, so easy to connect, unfortunelly i can´t share any match as an example because i play on the ps4
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I feel like there are too many variants for what differences there are. Also, I think there should be a hook downstairs in main if basement doesn't spawn there; I've had survivors make Springwood offerings and offerings to spawn hatch in shack, then get downed in basement where they couldn't be hooked.
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I can't vote for some reason so I say it's survivor sided.
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