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NOED is problematic
I don't think it's good that this addon rewards a killer for playing bad with free kills at the end. Even when I'm playing killer myself. I just faced a good team that should have been a 0k for them, but thanks to this perk I was able to turn it into a 3k. It just doesn't seem right.
Comments
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NOED is not add-on though
And I think it's mostly survivors' fault if 0k became 3k just because of NOED
Post edited by Astel on36 -
Perk can be easily countered its not a good perk. the most it should result in is a 1k unless the team gets greedy.
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It's still a bad design, but at least it's not as bad as it used to be.
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BHVR dosent like it when the killer gets destroyed.
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This is a joke btw the game is pretty balanced. Well kinda lol.
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The main issue with NOED is it is often a crutch for less experienced killers, other than that I have no issue with NOED now since they nerfed it a bit. I do think it is a cheap perk that rewards failure to protect gens but there are far more problematic things in DBD imo
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Always will be without a complete rework.
I don't personally have much issue with it, but I can't blame people for disliking perks that reward bad gameplay.
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thats the wrong mindset. noed is not a reward for failing to protect gens its a end game perk its designed to only work at the end and pls remember in a normal game where both sides have the same skill lvl and expirience the gens should get finished.
if the gens dont get finished that means the the diffrence between the survivor skill and the killer skill was to big.
where does that sentiment come from anyway? do people want all games to be either a 4k or a 4e cause the same logik come into play when people talk about adrenalin (no i dont have a problem with that perk) and people say "well dont let them finish gens then" its like people want stomp fests
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Well the problem is as killer it makes you a worse killer I remember when I first started playin I relied on it a lot to get at least one kill and I never got better until I took it off because like the above poster said it was a crutch. I would sometimes get 2 3 or 4ks that I didn't deserve especially in early games where survivors didn't know what was going on. Most of the times I didn't even deserve a 1k but BHVR keeps it to keep killers playing because it can give them the gratification of that one kill. Which is the problem they are having with survivor retention because of tunneling.
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that may be true i dont dare to talk about if a kill or a escape is "deseverd" when its a strong perk that is helping cause i believe that argument could be made for a number of situations where the kill or the escape would have failed if not for perk x.
i only wanted to highlight that thinking noed is bad because it is a endgame perk and that the killer does not deserve a kill or a powerspike from an perk because the gens got finished is utterly stupid cause the gens getting finished should be the normal.
from what i see with friends and streamers that mindset has also creeped into the killers. demanding buffs and nerfs and getting called bad cause gens get finished and one or to survs get out when that should be the normal middle ground
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Hot take but I honestly like going against NOED. It feels scary after feeling super optimistic about escaping, until you hear that god forsaken Exposed sound effect, then you gotta start taking it more seriously. It also feels pretty rewarding to find the totem and outright save the game for your team, even if it's revealed to you (which I think is a good balancing change for it).
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No that is exactly what it is, you are going into the match with the expectation that you will fail to pressure gens and they will all be done and THAT is the wrong mindset.
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If anything, NOED gives really bad stats.
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does that apply to all end game perks?
i still think gens should get done in most of the games if both sides are of equall skill and therefore endgame perks are absolutly valid the game is over when the survs pass the escape boarder not a second before that
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No, if you are running a complete end game build obviously not.
Either way, it doesn't worry me personally I just think it is a crutch that doesn't do killers learning the game any favours. If a killer is really bad and struggles to get a single down, I prepare myself for the inevitable NOED and 9 times out of 10 they will indeed have NOED.
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NOED doesn't "reward" the killer for playing bad, the end game is just another phase of the match, and a lot of perks are aimed towards it. Also, against good survivors, NOED only turns a 0k into a 1k.
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NOED is fine, especially since it glows like a glow stick now.
Part of playing survivor is deducing what perks the killer has. If you can only figure out three of them during the match then it’s safe to assume they have NOED equipped.
Killer sacrifices 1 perk slot for the majority of the game. It can be removed before it procs and it can be removed after, giving the killer zero value out of it. It’s the literal example of high risk and high reward.
If the killer was bad, the survivors should have no problems looping them and buying enough time to cleanse totems. If the killer was too good, well, they earned it.
The main reason why people hate it is because they get overconfident and don’t expect it and feel robbed of an escape they didn’t earn yet (you don’t deserve an escape until you exit through the gate).
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I agree NOED is an unhealthy perk and a crutch. Note I don’t think it’s OP, just unhealthy. It gives killers kills that were undeserved.
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But that logic could very well be extendet to most perks.
Is an escape due to adrenaline undeserved?
Is a kill undeserved if made possible by no eay out?
Is a kill undeserved when you used bamboozle tocut of the survey way?
I agree that noed is a cruch but not more then other strong perks and I agree that its not good if new killers only rely on it to get any kills at all. But i would not call the perk u healthy just because survivor often have the entitlement to think the game ends when the gens are done
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You’re using flawed comparisons as that actually can’t be applied to most perks.
Adrenaline has a risk of not seeing value from you dying before getting to end game, not being injured, already being exhausted ect ect.
NWO gives you time to make a skilled played, if you’re bad you still get nothing. NOED gives you the haste to ignore the balance of loops and instant down. Very little skill requirement here and you’re almost always getting the value.
Bamboozle may get you through faster or cut off a loop but if you’re still bad at killer you’re probably not gonna get the hit. You also run heavy rng that you may get many maps without any good window use. High risk.
My issue with it has nothing to do with thinking the game is over ones the gates are powered. It’s an imbalance between the value it gives, lack of risk involved, lack of rng involved, and lack of skill required. This is what distinguishes it from all the comparisons you provided. They are not the same.
There’s a difference between perks giving you an “opportunity” to make a “skilled” play and capitalize on the situation and a perk just giving it to you for basically free.
Like for example a kill I got for chasing someone down is earned but a kill I got from just camping at a guy on the hook and staring him down is not. Big difference.
Post edited by Blueberry on0 -
I personally don't use NOED when I play as killer. I don't have anything against it - I just find other perks more fun/useful. For those who call it a "crutch perk" that gives killers "undeserved kills" - especially those of you who rarely or never play killer - maybe look in the mirror. How many 2nd chance survivor perks (the ones that give you free health states by either doing nothing or simply pressing a button) are you using that give you undeserved escapes?
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Game not over until you exit the gates.
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If a 0k becomes a 3k thanks to NOED it means the survivors misplayed REALLY badly.
NOED is a strong perk but if the game was gonna be a 0k, NOED will usually only make it a 1k at best, and often the survivors will just cleanse the totem, get the save and it's still a 0k.
4 survivors still alive in endgame and you're chasing someone who isn't dead on hook? Unless you hook RIGHT next to the hex, survivors can easily get a 4-escape.
I'll admit if you can down someone right before the last gen gets done, hook em and then surprise the first survivor with NOED, that can help start a snowball, but again, there's still 2 survivors to find a hex and then try and at least save one of the others for a 3-escape.
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Just open the door and leave.
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You'll be glad I'm not in charge then. I'd make NOED a basic mechanic of the game. Do totems. Easy.
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Yea but for the most part all survivor perks get disabled end game that help an escape. The real problem though is its just overall making you worse at the game. people will gain mmr because of the perk then complain when they get pub stomped into the ground repeatedly because they're really not supposed to be in that mmr. NOED is an old perk and it worked a lot better in the old pip system and it shows. There's not to many other perks that boost your mmr like noed end game perks like remember me or no way out make you earn the perk. Noed just lights up and is supposed to be a incentive for survivors to go do bones but instead it ends up just being a crutch perk at end game especially if the killer hooks next to it. If noed only lit up say if you hook 2 survivors during the match then id say it would be in a better spot.
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thats a fantastic idea i dont see a reason why we killers shoulnd need to put in some work for noed to work.
i always thought endgame perks are a crazy thing as a whole cause you basicly run around with one or two or even more dead perks the whole game and then you gamble on getting value from it in a time where making a mistake is the most costly.
and ofcourse neod is absolutly the apex of endgame perks and others are way weaker that is true. i actually dont have such a good knowledge of survivor perks but arent the only perks that turn of in endgame perks taht would make a survivor invincible like ds or otr would love to be corrected if im wrong
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You have to consider that playing with 3 perks will affect the trial up until the 4th perk activates. Yes, a lot of really bad killers run NOED, but that's not always the case. Someone might only have a 1k heading into endgame *because* they played with 3 perks up until that point.
I know the perk feels bad when you get hit by it, but most of the time it's a bad killer player securing 1k or 2k in my experience. Not super problematic from a balance perspective. It's on the survivors if it's taking a 0k to a 4k. That involves from catastrophic positioning and not running away from the TR.
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A game going from a 0k to a 3k just sounds like a skill issue on the survivors part where areas could have performed better.
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The funniest way NOED can turn around an endgame is if the survivors try to take bodyblocks and protection hits while chasing someone towards the gate before they're aware NOED is active.
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The thing I most hate about noed is now you can see the totem's aura, the killer will hook on the side of the totem, yes, survivors can see it but they can't clease and it's an guaranteed kill for the killer, but hey, I'm glad I can see the totem's aura right?
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in that case you just leave. he has the highground there is nothing you can or should do except leaving sometimes thats just how it is and thats not a situation that only noed can cause
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Even though we feel opposite about NOED and I dislike it, I would actually like the idea of it being a basekit mechanic. This seems contradictory of me, but it’s actually because then we’d basically never see NOED actually come into play as now totems would be a mandatory secondary objective which would actually be good for the game.
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that is actually a good argument plus if noed is in every game that first unexpected noed hit does not hit so hard and does not strik fear into the survs
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And it would be the mandatory secondary objective people have been asking for ages. Seems like the perfect secondary objective too. They’re memorizable and we even have tons of totem perks if people are having trouble with them. They can even give a built in totem counter if it’s an issue.
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Alright ...
Sorry i laughed but this noed topic remind me 2016.
If you really really hate noed, clean all of the totem, use perks, and when the guy got one shot for the first time, you will notice the totem aura.
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I’ve never thought about this. What a fantastic idea.
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My favorite thing is when they’re t-bagging at the exit gate even though I spread hooks and didn’t camp. One usually likes to get a little over confident and ventures a little too close and then BAM! Insta-Down and on to the hook they go while their teammates leave them.
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the problem is NOED too weak now
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As someone who regularly runs Noed even with the Nerf that makes it a glowing beacon ready to be disabled Survivors are selfish they abandon anyone who gets downed and never leave the gate zone until that one guy i got is dead on hook.
That being said i would love it if they reworked Noed to remove the instadown and just give 20%-25% Haste until disabled i wanna be a fast af guy!!!
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You run NOED as a back up for your 3 gen regression perks as a plan B.
I run NOED, Bitter Murmur, Batteries Included, No Way Out because getting to end game was the plan all along.
We are not the same.
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I run NOED cause it my backup plan. Maybe I have an off day, maybe the Survivors are running builds that perfectly counter my own, maybe Ive been sacrificed to BHVR's highest altar of MMR. Either way, NOED helps to secure kills, especially against cocky Survivors who dont cleanse bones. Its one of the reasons I run Counterforce as a Survivor, I spawn in and begin hunting bones. Almost never have to deal with NOED
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Survivors have 10; 2nd chance perks. DH, DS, OTR, MoM, Adren, BR, UB, Expo, SG, and PS. Some of which can be used twice. I think it’s fair the killer gets a few. NoEd, NWO, Remember me (kind of), Pain Rez and Dead Lock
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Bingo! Tons of Survivors would still ignore them though. They'd rather complain and have the devs change it for them instead of saying their ABC's..xD
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What perks are Killers supposed to run? Gen regression/blocking gets complained about, stbfl got complained about, now even a endgame perk No ed still gets complained about after the nerf.
Not sure where this "undeserved kill" gaslighting came from, a team can have incredible gen efficiency, but if they make a snowball mistake in the endgame, it's still a deserved loss. Holding M1 for 5 gens doesnt guarantee an escape.
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Noed is perfectly fine for now, because it's not the killer's fault if the survivors don't care about the totems, but only focus on the generators. Even in the Endgame, they still have the chance to clear the hex.
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I do not like NOED, I haven't run it even once since my first 20 hours in the game like 5 years ago, and I wouldn't be even a little sad if it were deleted. The Venn diagram overlap of players who consistently run NOED and players who are new/bad is almost a perfect circle (the exception being if it is part of a meme end game build).
That said, I am sick of hearing that it gives "free kills". You don't enter the dying state as soon as the killer sees you in the endgame, they still have to catch and hit you. There's no such thing as a free kill.
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I agree this perk is problematic, but for both sides and not just survivor.
As survivor you can beat the killer in every aspect (loops, heals, chase, gens, hooks) and still lose because you didn't spend time searching every corner of every tile and spend 14 seconds or more per totem, cleansing 5 of them, which sucks and is not engaging. In some instances, with certain gen regression builds, a match against a killer can take up to 40 minutes even if you're all making good plays, and to do all of that only to be hit with NOED at the end is just miserable.
As killer you do not internalize the basics (winning chases, learning to play loops, good gen patrol) because NOED safety nets your failure to do so, and when you climb MMR you will get destroyed and sent back to destroying people stuck in solo queue or low MMR swf.
Both of these issues hurt the experience for solo play and new players, of which this game does not do enough to accommodate for imo.
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There are ways to deal with noed. Instead of rushing gens, you could look for totems as well.
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No Ed should be taken basealonh with no way out start with 6 taken loose a taken evey time you hook someone after 6 unhook mean u been play actually so no ed don't activate I should be a crutch it should be a surprise same with rancor they shoud all be balance but if the killer actually trying hard all game because if they are no end game perks their no survivour perk comparable to noed and NWO
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