Greenville Square (Withered Isle)
We'd like to know what you think about our newest map, the Greenville Square, part of the Withered Isle realm. Please leave any feedback you have concerning this map as a comment on this thread. Your feedback can be as brief or detailed as you'd like!
Greenville Square (Withered Isle) 200 votes
Comments
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Might be best to wait a week or so for this one so the majority of people can actually come to their own conclusions, no?
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It's too soon to make an idea for this, but for now, I would say that this map is balanced
EDIT: after I played on it for 5 hours, the map feels big, especially in the back of the map (where the statue is) it feels a bit survivor-sided since the map is kinda big
Post edited by gothbave on9 -
I mistakenly thought this was Garden of Joy when voting just because my exhausted mind saw "Withered Isle" XD why is there no way to retract/change your vote XD
But yeah, it's a bit soon for this kind of poll. I'd give a couple weeks so more experienced players can really discover the possibilities of this map.
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Hiya!
Thanks for the above comments. It's definitely early (the update just went live!), but gathering initial feedback on how the map feels is important - similar to the threads we started asking about initial thoughts on The Unknown, Sable's Perks, and the Killer adjustments in our latest update.
So even if you don't fill out the poll (which you are welcome to do!), we would love to hear your thoughts on how the map plays, what's working and what might be falling short.
Of course, you're welcome to come back and share additional feedback as you spend more time in Greenville Square.
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too early to say, but i feel the map is a little too big? of course need more playtime on the live release. i enjoy the tiles/loops on both sides tho
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The map is way too big, and more importantly, the generators can spawn way too far apart from each other, considering there is a huge main building with lots of resources to extend chases.
I see so many people complain when generators spawn too close together.... but why does it seem like barely anyone cares when generators spawn so far apart, that it's not realistic to defend them all, and the killer is honestly better off just letting one side of the generators go undefended.
Like, seriously. Does BHVR super honestly expects for killers to do the full patrol of all the unrepaired generators, on this map? Really? That seems realistic for low mobility killers like Pig and Pyramid Head?
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Too early for balance takes, sure. But it does feel pretty big and therefore survivor sided. Also good for hiding.
but visually this map is great! So much cool details with the cinema and the flippers scattered around! Great color scheme and cool atmosphere and lighting with the car lights and street lanterns! Definitely one of the maps that wouldn’t necessarily need much improvement in this regard and depth of field and fog -while needing improvement in general- don’t feel too blatantly off here!
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I feel that the map is balanced - so far - judging from the PTB and the first day of release. The gen spawning apart definitely helps to combat 3 gen strategies, which is what map design should lean into. I think that concession stand (the one where you drop into from the 2nd floor) with the unsafe window should be widened a little bit because it's easy to medium vault and get hit while mind-gaming.
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According to this forum every map is surv sided 🤣
Yea the map feels a little too big but there is literally 0 safe pallet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTwNRCTQ8AU&t=877s
In this video Arinad, a famous Clown main said that there is no point in breaking pallets so that they are useless, you just lunge them at the drop and you get the hit.
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Played this map on the PTB for a bunch, played around a dozen games today. Nothing seems to have changed from PTB so the critique is mostly the same: Map is way, way, way too big and the rectangle shape makes the size even worse. Exit gates are impossible to contest. Chases never go to main unless you have a teleporting killer because there's nothing there at all. Games revolve entirely around the middle area.
Not a great map layout. The main building is really fun to play but there's no reason to ever go there.
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Only got it a few times. Can´t judge yet.
Looks great. Seems pretty big.
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The reason for less people complaining about large gen spread is that it’s still possible for the killer to win. Harder to be sure yes but doable. A good game can still be had, one sided maybe but it’s over quickly and done with and everyone moves on. Close gen spread is incredibly tedious to go against if the killer decides to take advantage and the game goes on forever. Neither is good but if we have to chose a lesser evil, far is better.
Too early to say on this map. Haven’t even played it against non bot opponents yet. Like it a lot aesthetically and it seems okay. No extremely obvious spots like Garden of Joy or Haddonfield. At least that I remember. Didn’t even play that much on PTB tbh.
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You should be able to go in/through the bushes at the statues. I want to hide in them.
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BHVR could fix generators that spawn too close together AND fix generators that spawn too far apart... and both can be fixed at the same time. There isn't a "we need to choose one or the other". Both can easily happen at the same time.
Many people don't want the game to be balanced on both sides. That's the real reason way less people complain about generators that are too far apart. People want killer to be punished if they don't want to patrol the full map... but they also want generators to spawn so far apart that it's not realistic to patrol the full map. It's so sad.
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Greenville Square introduces a few innovative design approaches for maps, as for if they are good or bad is yet to be seen. The first one is the filler loops being mostly unsafe but the map having 25 to 27 pallets (more that in any other map), making for chases where the survivor is likely to always have something to loop but dropping the pallets aimlessly won't prevent hits. There are a couple of double pallets loops where each pallet is so unsafe on its own that it is not absurd for both pallets to be there. This safety design approach is not necessarily bad and can perfectly work out.
The other design approach is more devious and hard to assess. The map is the longest in the game, tied with Azarov's Resting Place, yet the generator spread is very peculiar, uncharacteristic of maps with similar shapes. There is a fixed generator at main building on one end of the map and another fixed generator at the statue landmark, but the rest of the generators do not spawn near them and instead gather around the middle of the map (sometimes spawning adjacent to each other in the open). The parking lot landmark never spawns a generator and it is highly unproductive to defend a perimeter with main building, on the other hand, only rarely one will find a favorable perimeter of generators near the statue; meaning that ideally the killer will play most of the trial around the middle of the map, where territorial playstyles are not as effective given that survivors can run towards either end of the map.
The positives of this design approach are that if the killer stays around the middle, they won't need to traverse vast distances to patrol the map and that the survivors count with natural "anti-tunnel" locations at both ends of the map since the safety is more outstanding there and the generators in those spots are so isolated from the rest that it isn't in the killer's interest to spend much time in said places (therefore good locations to go for a survivor that is targeted too aggressively).
The negatives are how the fixed generators at main building and statue landmark are so undesirable to defend that the killer has to play around 5 generators from the start, instead of 7; how the most charming locations (main building & the landmarks) are ideally ignored; how the exit gates are consistently so far apart; how the survivors can run in a straight line for so long without being cut off; and how any killer that is unaware of the tactical endeavor they have to follow will indeed become victim of the absurd length of the map by trying to chase everywhere and / or defend all generators indiscriminately.
If the design approach of "longest map with most generators near the middle & ends of the map that the killer needs to avoid" is found defective, a size reduction and layout rework would be required. Independently of that happening, there are two things that could be improved regardless: the location of the exit gates & the amount of mazetiles getting increased from 3 to 4 (which would solidify the strong & predictable safety of the map that supports the unsafe yet numerous filler loops).
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too many boards
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I think it's a lot better than the last few maps we got. It's big but the loops feel much more fair, at the same time the amount of palettes gives you a bit of room to work with. I like the fact that there aren't any new weird structures besides the double palette (that also feels fair for me). The main-building seems to be fair too.
So I think you nailed this chapter, I like everything of it. Besides that you get bonus-points because the map is in the same realm like garden of joy, so I have the chance that I get greenville instead if someone plays this horrible offering!
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the big U shape makes contesting the forest to the south of the theater pretty rough. one of the first maps ive noticed to spawn the basement miles from 5 of 7 gens. main building lacks centralized feel. it's just off in a corner and once you complete the projector gen it's like it's barely worth going back inside unless you're running lithe or balanced landing and need something to vault/drop from.
the fountain is nice if not a little cluttered. killer shack could stand to spawn to the north or east given the dimensions of the map. the west is weird. idk i'd even be fine with removing the forested section to the south and just putting the fountain straight up where the forest is currently and maybe put the forest behind the parking lot area on the east or north. do a little 50/50 flip simetimes with killer shack and forest.
basically there's too much going on south of the theater and not enough going on behind it in the northern portion or the eastern portion. the western gate seems forced when killer shack spawns beside it.
aethestically pleasing, but needs some reeling back in towards the main building.
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Fix the Collison on the bushes like you did with Garden. I don't know if the asset team used an old file or whatever. But the bushes feel exactly like old garden. The chainsaw killers get stuck on them just the same way as old garden. Unfairly and not accurate to POV of either side.
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From my first impressions I think it's a lot better than some of the past maps we've gotten. While I wanna wait and get more information before coming to something conclusive, as a Trapper main, I am at love with the sheer potential of trap spots I have available to me. I often find myself ignoring the statue side of the map in games due to the length, but thankfully the pallets actually feel playable here!
P.S.: I love the concession stand. Favorite trap spot so far! 😁
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The map is very big, but from the bit i played on it the loops seem to be on the weaker side. This is in theory a good balancing point. There are many maps that follow this style and that's a good thing. But it think it could be a little smaller, as its size is a bit too much.
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This ma have such a atmosphere, it is my new favourite :) The main building is fun to loop and offers many possible paths. Every single room seam to have a purpose maybe except bathroom since its window is a just free hit. Hymm, I am trying to recall where is a chest/killer prop spawn in the main building. Is it in the bathroom? If it is then that room would actually have a purpose.
Balance wise it is fine - or should I say - fine for the unknown and his teleport. We will see for less mobile killers
Post edited by WampaPl on0 -
are there supposed to be that many double-pallets? Those two were in view of each other, a little further, next to main, was another instance of those double pallets. --- The number aside; since I don't really care about pallets with Nemo it's hard for me to gauge how safe they actually are. From a surv perspective it looks like a removeable double-long-wall; you drop a pallet and you got your safe pallet. But the killer can immediately break it, leaving you with an unsafe pallet. Which kinda renders the whole structure unsafe...? On the other hand, the stun-potential seems to be rather high, given how bs some pallet stuns can be. Anyone who has some more insight on that one?
Pallets aside: the map is HUGE. Towards the fountain end of the map there isn't too much people want to do there once the gen is done - but survs comp-ing that side ... makes you lose a ton of time as non-high-mobility killer. You basically have to choose between never stepping into main or never stepping into the fountain area if you don't want to spend at least half a gen just walking back.
As for the surv side: It feels extremely pallet heavy - but not in the good way. You have shack, main and two regular tiles with vaults, everything else is pallets. Any killer that can chew through pallets - and there are a lot of them - will be able to deplete resources faster than gens can be repaired... leaving survs to shift-W to the comp fountain as the best way to waste time halfways through the match. Now, if the killer also has mobility he doesn't even care about that.
[edit: kinda forgot my preliminary conclusion. - Which is; between the map being huge and shift-w to fountain, which wastes a lot of time for non-high-mobility killers, I suppose it's technically balanced as long as it's against a killer who doesn't have high mobility or who doesn't care about pallets - or both. Though, while it may be balanced it's also extremely annoying and frustrating and boring, if the best strategy for surv is to just shift-w to fountain and for killer to just not commit to fountain/main.]
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Yes, can't say much about the balance but the atmosphere with the sounds are well done. I need to play it more for practice but it's definitely fun.
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This map is miserable. Playing on it now, 5 gens all spawn really close to each other in a circle around the fountain with zero pallets. It's the easiest 3+ gen I've seen in a giant deadzone, the killer hasn't had to leave it all game.
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I don't really like this map on either side.
On survivor it felt like too many of the pallets were unsafe, which I guess makes sense because there are a ton of pallets on this map but that doesn't really make it fun. Additionally, generators often were too close together in the middle of the map (away from the building and away from where the giant statue is).
On the other hand, this map is huge which is bad for killer. The main building is really cool, but there's usually not much reason for the killer to actually go there because that generator isn't worth defending. Usually the killer's best option on this map is to mostly stay in the middle areas where a lot of gens are and since they are often quite close together it becomes a good area to defend. But in general, having super long map shapes just doesn't really work.
That said, the map visuals look amazing. I love how much detail was put into the main building and the arcade. Your art team did amazing work on this one.
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The map feels awful to play on both sides ngl, on killer it feels atrocious because there’s so much empty extra space you may need to walk around in because of how big it is (the very large size of the main building also doesn’t help with this), finding people on this map is an absolute nightmare.
meanwhile as survivor, the gen spawns make it feel atrocious because they all feel bunched up together. In a circle around the middle, the main building could genuinely use a second gen spawn cause the building is so big, a second gen inside or right next to it outside would help flow a lot better.
i think it’s slightly favoured for survivor though cause there’s a very good consistency of loops, my first try on the map i got a 75-ish second loop against a decently skilled unknown with me having zero chase perks. Only going down because i though a certain tile still had a pallet up. (And also bigger maps are just in general better for survivors.
the map could definitely use a size decrease, that is my suggestion, it genuinely feels like playing old (the bigger) mother’s dwelling (which was probably my least favourite map as killer ever) but instead of it being shaped like a square, it’s an awkwardly shaped rectangle.
The map is beautiful but i feel despite what was said about gameplay coming before visuals, this map feels like visuals came before gameplay, way too much open dead space.
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Played on this map multiple times now, this is literally a modern version of the Swamp maps style. Edge wall spawns of gens and pallet loops. It's a style that should have been retired with Backwater Swamp. And that style should be removed when/if Swamp gets reworked.
Combo that with the large size of the map and you have a nightmare map for Killers
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Entirely too big, miserable to play on as m1 killers because of its sheer size but won't at all affect the strongest killers.
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This map is huge, one side has the main building with horrible pallets, and the other area, with the statue, feels like it has three times the amount of pallets it should have.
It feels extremely unbalanced because gens spawn all in the statue area, but the map is so big that they're really far apart anyway, and survivors have over 15 pallets to run and waste. On the off chance you run out of pallets, you run to the main building because the killer can't chase there, or they'll be leaving every gen in the map unattended. It feels awful to play.
As a killer, you HAVE to break the pallets because there are a lot of long walls anyway that survivors can use to make an unsafe pallet safe. The two-pallet combo that was introduced for this map is completely horrible, and it's clear no one misses it.
This map is paradise for Hold W gamers. There are tons of pallets to waste, and you can drop five in a single chase and still have plenty in the same area. Not even Gideon feels this awful.
As an m1 killer you can not chase a survivor in the statue area if they're running Windows of Opportunity because they can chain pallets forever, and when you're forced to break them they can just run to the main building
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I love the main building and the entire vibe of the map (small town vibes). However, I do think the map is a bit on the larger side. I'm a survivor main but I can already tell some killers are going to struggle trying to patrol gens and/or the gates. I would suggest maybe making the map smaller by bringing in the statue portion more towards the center.
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I will definitely agree with you on the sentiment that many players don't want the game to be balanced to be fun on both sides.
I hope to be proven wrong over the coming months with the results from these threads but I think given the... difficulties BHVR has had in map balance among other types of balance, my expectations are very low here. So while there 'shouldn't be' a need to choose one or the other, there very well might be. Problem is that choice is unlikely to be made by us lol. I'm sure it would be easy for you and others in this thread... clearly though there are other priorities like making the map look nice or whatever.
Which to be fair, at least here they succeeded but as AMGC points out, the generators and parts of the map that have the landmarks and look really great are also the parts of the map that the killer wants to defend the least. They could have put the theatre generator on the bottom floor at least somewhere, or put the stairs leading up to the generator room facing the other way so that the killer doesn't have to waste time walking to the access side to patrol that generator.
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As others have said it's a bit too early to judge, however my first impressions are that it's a bit too big, the gens are far apart and when the gates spawn across the map they are way too far away from each other. The long loop that has two pallets is too safe, it would have been better to have a standard long safe loop with one pallet.
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My first impressions of this map is that it's balanced but the map feels extremely big and there's a lot of pallets but they aren't super good and the exit gates are way too far apart from each other but it's meh
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Overall map looks really nice. Played a few matches with bots to get used to it and the new killer, however I found some things I didn’t like so much. First off, the biggest point I have is there are way too many pallets. I might be over exaggerating since the bots kept running to new pallets every single time, but I haven’t played in a while, so I’m sure I’m rusty. However, in my last match I encountered this. 2 pallets on either side of a single rock. That’s like some Freddy Krueger BS right there. But anyways, going off of some others posts, the map does seem a little big. And generator placements seemed a little wacky. With only one being inside the theater and the rest in the square. It seemed pointless to protect the generator in the theater knowing that I can cover all the others outside. It’s like that side of the map just isn’t worth the trip over. Especially with how condensed the corridors and rooms are. That’s my take on it. But definitely look at fixing the Freddy Krueger pallets because that is insane!
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Already great survivors are practicing how to use loops to prove the survivor side of the map. Did you extend the loop wall a little bit to avoid being found out? Everyone has noticed! The loop of alternating rocks and pallets is clearly from the Survivor side, and even though it is a short loop that is weak on its own, there is another loop that complements each other.
Everyone says it out loud. “You said the map was too wide so you made it smaller, but dev made new map wider again!?”
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Why is the gen spread so awful on this map? Other than the one that always spawns in the theater there is no gen on that side of the map. The parking lot and behind the theater are always empty, meaning there’s 3-5 gens all within sight of each other in the woods in front of the theater. I just don’t understand how you make a brand new map that favors 3 genning when you’re apparently trying to reduce that strategy in the game.
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The trapper can completely hide a trap in the mound outside of killer shack window. Its totally invisible when set, but slightly visible when unset. It still triggers when walked over
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The majority of pallets are unsafe and just there for nothing, which is just incredible unfun, but that‘s on most of the new maps. Either you got 8 pallets in total or 16 trash pallets.
It‘s not fun, that you have to play everything perfectly on all reworks and new maps. The killer has to do nothing on those pallets. Just go right, left -> pallet drop -> kill. It feels like you can‘t do anything. That made me quit survivor almost entirely (even so I like survivor more, but it‘s not fun anymore).
The map looks good and it‘s cool that the basement is darker on this map.
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I thought there were some limits to how close pallets can be to one another? Doesnt seem to bother this map...
Ive only played this a little, and it felt sort of okay. Not the worst in terms of balance.. I like the visuals, the movie theater, the arcade etc.. But the outside has a bit too much junk and pallets.
EDIT: I just had another game there, and there are WAY too many pallets within a relatively small area. Something like 10 in the park area in front of the movie theater? Most are just few meters away from each other. Atrocious. I would like to change my vote from neutral to survivor-sided.
Post edited by Bloodartist on1 -
Enjoy this clip of an m1 being robbed by the new bush collision. Player can walk right through it, but can't hit anything whatsoever.
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Personally, I'm not a fan of the experimental double pallets, and there is ALOT of them in the middle of the map. They're too weak on one side, and too strong on the other, and when ones gone, its just a useless pallet surrounded by other useless fillers. Recommending wall loops in the middle of the map and fillers on edge.
The main building and shack are strangely really close to eachother, and the greenville square statue isn't in the middle or "square" of the town. I think it could be more like coal tower in the sense that one end has the main building, and the other has shack. Giving more room to place wall loops in between the two.
Edge map is very generous, but the one pallet spawning behind main really sucks. The parking lots just a death trap, maybe put it infront of the theater? Over all, It's strangely killer sided, never thought I'd be saying those words. But please rework it to a more rectangular or L shaped layout, I feel it'll make the town square look more like a town square. Cheers
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it means you can't 3 gen and have to commit chases. Luckily map has fair pallets.
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Ive played 10 games since the update and still havent gotten this map and I havent seen an offering for it so yeah... either increase the map spawn rate or....
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This map has hooks so close to each other it’s ridiculous!!! I got downed by the movie theater and there is a hook inside of the theater and right outside of it. I can see a hook from like every angle from every place i’m at on this map.
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I can see the size being a problem for the less mobile killers, but since the majority of the gens are pretty central it should be manageable. It has been fun so far on both sides and I'm absolutely in love with the design.
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Make more maps like this where almost every pallet is mindgame able. Feels too big tho no gen defense and it’s free escape.
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The gens and hooks are too centralized and I get people comp cornering me a lot on this map with Boil Over. Please put more hooks near the edges of maps, maps in general need this but this one needs it the most.
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The map is so large that as killer you are better off just never going near the main building. This sucks honestly because the theatre is the coolest part of the map but there's no benefit to the killer to ever go there. And if the killer just doesn't chase you there even the survivors don't get to experience it. It makes the map feel like it's just an open grassy area and feels very bland.
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i like playing this map when survivor bc it has a lot of room and has more pallets
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