TUNNELING NEEDS TO BE ADRESSED ASAP
Tunneling has to be at an all time high right now...never in the games lifetime have killers tunneled so consistently and ruthlessly especially at 5-4 gens... There is not a single reason to tunnel someone out when the game basically just started or when it's only been a few minutes into the game? I play both roles and got hit with DS today and it was literally a joke...felt like old DS with Enduring and that is suuuper short...especially against good killers the tools of anti tunneling the survivors have are just a joke...
They can't balance the game around the best survivors? Not everyone is Team Eternal... My suggestion would be basekit DS I KNOW I KNOW a lot of people will have sth against it but it would be a genuine change to tunneling where you wouldn't be forced to run anti tunneling perks all the time which would lead to more variety in builds and not just that killers would get punished for tunneling...at the same time they could make it that when over half of the gens are finished (3/5 gens done meaning 2 gens left) the basekit ds deactivates because at this point in the game tunneling, slugging and camping are valid strategies if the killer wants to win the game.
At the end of the day this game shoud be about fun and tunneling people out mere minutes into the game is NOT fun for the survivor and obviously there is no reason to do that...the DS deactivation at 2 gens remaining seems like a good solution to me in order to not punish killers for well...killing the survivors :,D since that is literally their job but at least giving survivors an option to have fun and a decent time in the game as well.
Anyways what are your thoughts about this? I really do believe that BHVR NEEDS to do sth about it otherwise especially the solo Q but also the swf experience will keep on becoming more and more miserable as it keeps going which will lead to more bitter people more hate in the community and well overall a miserable gaming experience.
After all that is just a suggestion from. If you have any other solutions to this truly urgent matter then let us know :D
Hope u have a great time in the Fog :D
Comments
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Always about the "survivor fun", but no one everyone wants to address that killers need to enjoy the game too. If you want to heavily nerf the killer's ability to eliminate survivors then killers are going to need to be stronger in defending gens.
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^^ this
Losing 3 gens in your first chase is also not fun. Maybe take care of that issue and killers wouldn't feel like they have to tunnel someone out early to have a chance.
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I play both roles so I absolutely know how miserable killer can get. Still I really do believe that tuenneling early is the worst possible experience in the game right now. Killer might have been more miserable in the past but not anymore. They have strong perks and a lot of tools to work with but survivors kinda well don't? I use off the record as that is the only reliable anti tunneling perk because DS is just horrible right now. Don't get me wrong SWF is BROOOOOOKEN AF and I know that BUT they can't balance the game around swf/pro teams because then solo players and generally uncoordinated players/swfs will just get massacred and well that really isn't fun... It's not even a competetive game there is no ranked mode or anything so ? There really is not a single reason to tunnel EARLY that is the problem I want them to adress EARLY TUNNELING not at 2-1 gens that's totally valid right u want to get one or two out to be able to chill again as killer and have a good experience but early tunneling...there is nothing that can defend such despicable behaviour in a party game.
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When you lose 3 gens you can tunnel? Didn't I literally adress this in my post? And sure add a mechanic for the killers to be able to make gen repair and progression harder. I donÄt think they need to extend the duration a gen needs in order to be repaired maybe something else like when it reaches 25,50 and 75 percent add like a minigame or something and not a skillcheck idk there are soooo many solutions and killers already have insane gen regression perks so.
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The killer is allowed to complete their objective as quickly or as slowly as they desire.
BHVR is not going to redesign the game at this point.
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You were hit by DS, why were you tunneling?
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Killers still tunnel? It's just an excuxe they use... At 4 gens there wasn't much progression so there is no reason to do that.
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Of course they are :) I agree with you. Still I think you know how miserable it can get when they do so don't you? Then there really is no reason for casual survivors etc to keep playing this game anymore and especially no incentive for newer players to start playing this game if this is what they are confronted with.
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She was fully healed up and ran towards me and well there were multiple with the same skin :) So I went after one without realizing it was the one I hooked earlier.
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so stop doing the one (1) (singular) objectives survivors HAVE to do to win the game? If youre 3 gens down in 1 chase, YOU are doing something wrong as the killer player. If youve been juiced as 3 survivors have done 3 gens together, lord knows how long youve been blasted for, if theyve done 3 gens with 1 on each one, youve been assblasted for 1minute 30 and they have been efficient with gen pressure, thats not their fault. The fact is killers tunnel not because they have to, they do it because there is zero downside and purely because they can. Something needs to be done about how rampant it is in the game but it'll never happen while BHVR are in full blown hold-the-killers-hand mode like they have been for the last year
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Nvm.
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Please, whats 'fun' for the killer tunneling? I've had numerous tunnelers say its boring and sucks but it gets results.
I find your point non-applicable. Of course killers need to have fun too. I hope this wasn't an accusation, but if it is, then I understand.
Still, nerfing tunneling isn't 'nerfing the killer's ability to eliminate survivors.' It eliminates a tiresome and muddy aspect of the game that more people dislike than is warranted. If you have to tunnel to win, you're in a higher bracket than you should be... probably due to tunneling.
I'm pretty sure thats all BHVR has been doing. This will get looked at and 'fixed'. But whatever that fix is... probably create 3 more problems.
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I enjoy the game and I don't have to tunnel. In fact tunneling made me bad and I started hating the game at higher mmr.
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I can rewrite exactly the same message from killers pov.
so stop doing the one (1) (singular) objectives killers HAVE to do to win the game? If youre 1 hook away from death, YOU are doing something wrong as the survivor player. If youve been juiced by failing to loop for more than 30 seconds, lord knows how long youve been blasted for, if theyve done 3 hooks with 1 surv, youve been assblasted, they have been efficient with surv pressure, thats not their fault.
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I dont know about that they redesign the game every patch and completely overhauled it on 6.1.
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Put it on the flip side, if 4 survivors can't even get 1 gen done before one of them gets killed by the killer, the survivors are doing something wrong.
The simple fact is that tunneling isn't some problem that needs to be solved. Someone dying at 5 gens left is the fault of the survivors just like a killer not securing their first hook before 3 gens are finished is the fault of the killer.
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okey i see this as a learning opportunity.
having a 1.5 minute first chase sounds pretty normal for me when the survivor does not screw up. evey pallet that can be there is there and i dont know where any other surv is so leaving that chase sounds like a bad idea what am i going to do to get this chase shorter?
and im super honest almost all my first chases are ending with two or more gens done is that just me being matched with survivor that are so much better then me?
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I'd love to see your gameplay so you can show me how to get quick downs as killer. Please link me to some of your gameplay videos so I can learn. I'm not being sarcastic here - I often see responses like this saying that this is a "skill issue" but no one ever backs it up. I'm honestly trying to learn how to play better. Maybe you can show me how.
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Tunneling is the easiest and quickest way for a killer to win the game, and as of right now there are simply not enough incentives not to play this way. They have tried perks that reward spreading hooks with bloodpoints and it didn't stop tunneling. They have tried anti-tunneling perks and it didn't stop tunneling. They have tried base-kit BT and it didn't stop tunneling. They have tried an anti-face camping system and it didn't stop tunneling. I believe all of this doesn't stop tunneling because none of these deterrents take away the value that killers get from tunneling in general. That value is pressure against gens. Most if not all killers believe that the time it takes to complete gens is simply not long enough, and that tunneling out a player as soon as possible thus turning the game into a 3v1 makes the gen speeds less of an issue. Because of this, I believe a possible solution to tunneling should directly involve gens.
They already added an anti-3 gen kick mechanic to the game so I don't think it's far fetched to believe something like this could also be implemented. I think tunneling should directly impact gen speeds.
If a survivor is hooked consecutively, all gens get a repair speed buff making them take less time to complete, and it stacks. If a killer goes out of their way to spread their hooks, gens get a repair speed slowdown making them take more time to complete that also stacks. I believe this is a solution that is fair for both sides.
This allows the killer to tunnel if they want, but it no longer gives them the pressure that it used to, and gives hooks more value than kills. This also increases the chances of all survivors getting a chance to actually play the game, thus resulting in a more meaningful opportunity to contribute to the entirety of the game.
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No you see, generators don't have feelings so it's OK for survivors to try super hard and end the game as quickly as possible. Killers have to always be mindful of of other players' feelings so you have to make really really sure that the other player is OK with you chasing them again before you go after them.
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So then we should really just take all the perks out of the game and only use gen rush also just have tool boxes with gen rush add on. Then take out all of the perks except for slowdown will make for a really fun game. That way we can force everyone to play scummy. While were at it we should give everyone wall hacks just make the game as efficient as possible for everyone. Pretty sure i just fixed the games balance issue.
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Killer is the power role.
With power comes responsibility.
You don't get to be super powerful and just do whatever you want to the other players in the match.
Killers absolutely set the tone of the game which is disproportionate to the impact individual survivors have.
Obviously killer players aren't responsible for cleaning BHVR's mess and no one intelligent faults killers for using methods available in game, but to pretend it's unfair for killers to have more restrictions on them is silly in my opinion.
BHVR absolutely should nuke tunneling out of orbit or make a 1v1 game and compensate killers another way.
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Well I can tell this thread will be closed pretty quick. This got to 'Us vs them' like REAL fast lol. But I really need to know...
Can you loop or not? Ever since a horrible accident as a child I haven't been able to believe forum names as truth. :P
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I've always dreamed of a sort of Karma System in this game. Where "bad actor" killers AND survivors are given a hidden karma rating after each game. This way the killers and survivors that play a certain way that most other players don't enjoy can just play with one another while the rest of us enjoy a less toxic game.
The only problem with this idea is that it would be extremely difficult for the devs to create an algorithm that can accurately grade one's karma.
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Use DS and DH if the 3 seconds aren't enough.
I admit, the 3 seconds against Nurse and Blight are a joke. Basekit DS...idk man. Maybe extend DS against specific Killers by 2 seconds.
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So killer fun is winning? Cause thats what you make it look like. Buff arent necessary needed as well as tunneling isnt necessary to have fun games nor winnable games.
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The killer's role is to eliminate survivors from the match. If you want to make it harder for killers to complete their objective, then they need better tools to defend gens. However, those tools have already seen nerfs because survivors also don't like it when killers focus on defending gens either.
The problem is many people just want to nerf everything killers can do to generate pressure which will only leave the killer role into a spot where it's no fun to play. Tunneling is extremely common nowadays, because a lot of alternatives have already been nerfed.
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Tunneling is extremely common nowadays, because a lot of alternatives have already been nerfed.
Ok, now thats straight BS. They tunnel because its effedctive, moreso than any other strat, nerfed or not. If you truly believe this, you're so out of touch.
The problem is many people just want to nerf everything killers can do to generate pressure which will only leave the killer role into a spot where it's no fun to play.
So you're doing what you claim we are doing? Its ok for killers to have fun , even if its at the expense of survivors? Yeah, sorry. You're just tossing gas on the flame and not really caring how it ends imo. Can you be more clear? Maybe I have it all wrong.
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the most important thing when it comes to all that stuff be it tunneling or gens is that bhvr needs to do the right thing and dont hide the sulution behind another chapter and some perks. best example is ds before the nerfs it was the stapel of anti tunneling perks and its locked behind a dlc char and worse its a only real money char
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I play both sides and hate both "gen rushing" and "tunneling" most than anything in this game. Both can be "justified" as effective (true) and fair (sometimes the case) but honestly it is just frustrating as hell like in this event to go for a match and get LOTS like these
In the first capture, the Clown had all on his favor and his one Pain Res followed by the tunnel was enough to trash the whole match.
On the second one, it was also a Clown with Pain Res and we made it out at the end but still was a long game of him patrolling the remaining 3 gens and the 3 only survivors persisting by resetting everytime to deny him further Pain Res + Tunnel. Far from a enjoyable match at all.
The last one was the worst because the Unknown also had Pain Res and evewn though we spread on gens while he obsessed over his target, it was not worth crap in the end since he still had 3 stacks of Pain Res to use and thus our attempts to defend the survivor dead on hook were more also punished.
For the person being tunneled, it is either a game of "well I guess I'll die" / seeing the gens fly while you hold the killer and still die with no points on anything other than boldness / run the killer for as long as you can but no gens are done and you have the sour taste of seeing them get a 4k anyways.
When I'm playing killer I enjoy taking multiple chases and changing targets regularly but I also recognize this sometimes results into gens flying and little to no kills. Even worse thanks to the way MMR works now which will lead to matches that get more and more frustrating with time.
On a survivor perspective, it is just bullshit trying to go on a match during an event and having to play all of them as if in a stupid comp scenario and I am decided to just stop playing unless I have challenges available.
On a killer perspective, I guess it would be more appealing if there were more incentives to really spread the chases/pressure rather than going the easy route of kill 1 as fast as possible then destroy the remaining survivors by getting them tired of doing the same generator 5 times thanks to pain res + pop + whatever.
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Tunneling is not a problem. Simple evidence for this are the survivors that can avoid detection and can escape their chases. Its a double edge tactic at best and its outcome is heavily reliant on the competency of both the killer and survivor.
I believe this to be supported by the fact devs have stated multiple times for struggling killers to drop chase and find the weak links.
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Damn clown in back 2 back games?
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That's precisely what it shouldn't be like :) I already told everyone that I play both roles and therefore understand both sides. A lot of players here only see one side of the coin and therefore cause misery for the other side especially veteran players who played this game in times where killers were incredibly weak but those times are over. Killers are so ridiculously oppressive especially if they don't play against high mmr swf lobbies it is unbelievable. Survivors literally have no chance of escaping and after the hatch sound nerf that low chance decreased even more. I really don't know how the future of this game looks like but the way it develops, it's not looking too good especially for solos... I play League and many other games too but DBD Solo Q experience HAS to be the most miserable thing on this planet. I'm not telling them to nerf killers. Killers should be strong I mean they are killers for a reason right? I am telling them to nerf EARLY GAME TUNNELING not tunneling in general EARLY GAME TUNNELING and EARLY GAME SLUGGING is the true root of misery. Hope they do adress this because if they don't...guess we'll just face misery.
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To be fair, killers are in an easy spot right now.
Not the easiest, nor the best or healthiest, but it is an easy spot. Obviously no one will win all of their trials, but not much is being put against killers rn.
By that logic we should have seen a decrease in tunneling, not an increase.
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the thing is tho it forces us to play 2 perks even tho I might just want to run other more chill perks/comfort perks sth like bond. Forcing people to use meta perks is just plain unhealthy for the game IMO. Basekit DS would only be active for the early game :) in the mid to lategame it would automatically deactive but it would do its job against early game tunnelers and increase the chances of survivors doing the objective because just getting 1 out of the 4 survivors out of the game drastically changes the outcome of the game... Someone also said sth like per hook the gens take longer to complete and with each survivor killed that debuff turns into a buff which would make the gens go quicker if it is a 3v1 and a 2v1 because winning a 2v1 is pretty much impossible and winning a 3v1 seems really hard too in Solo Q
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We already know that isn't true.
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The difficulty of the role doesn't affect best strategy. When Eruption/CoB/Overcharge was meta, tunneling was seen less as the best strategy was just to defend a 3-gen due to how powerful these perks were. Arguably, killers were even stronger than since it was shortly after 6.1.0 and there wasn't any survivor buffs/killer nerfs yet.
The devs simply don't create any valuable alternatives to making the match a 3v1 early, so killers are not going out of there way to do so. In the same way that Survivors don't just cleanse dulls because the value for doing so over making progress on a gen isn't there.
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But Pain Res/Deadmans or Grim Embrace and corrupt is basically in every single game? Even if the killer messes up he just uses pain res and grim and you lost all your progress :,D? IDK maybe MMR is the real problem of this game. We might have a completely different experience as we play in different MMR levels. You might be playing a completely different game :)
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Yeah the problem kinda is that killers don't need to respect the current versions of the anti tunneling perks because they are so ridiculously weak. Off the record can instantly get removed by just hitting you off the hook xD and the current version of DS is just a sorry joke of a perk...the killers tunnel because there are no negative consequences to tunneling like old ds that they kinda respected.
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But in the current state of the game there is no reason to really force an early 3v1, especially during the event. It isn't being done because there is a need to, but because there is little to no counter.
Without DS to punish tunnelers or BBQ to serve as an incentive to not tunnel, this strategy spirals out of control. And that isn't fun for anyone involved.
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The event tome doesn't take very long to complete and it's not like there's a reward to playing nice either. Regardless of an event currently active, there's no reason to expect the other side to play "nice". You might as well play effective.
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We have a gen regression meta, increase in kick damage, gens take longer to complete and we had a lights out mode where survivors couldn't see gens, AND still killers will tunnel at the start of the game. You could make gens 5 minutes to complete each and killers would still tunnel because there's no consequence.
If you tunnel a survivor and they run you for multiple gens you need to sit back and accept you over committed and that's on YOU!
Also, so what if 3 gens popped? The games not over until all gens are done and the gates are open so why act like it's over until that point? Pressure gens, don't give up and don't complain when a team works well against a low skill tactic.
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If a survivor runs a killer for multiple gens, the killer was playing bad. In the same way that if a killer is able to get a survivor dead with no gens getting done, the survivors played bad.
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Tbf not every survivor spends 12 hours a day playing dbd and playing like they wanna be on team eternal. A lot of survivors just wanna vibe and get some blood points. Me personally, I like to do gens and get saves. I don't bring flashlights, I don't tbag and I don't run in the killers face saying "chase me, chase me" with OTR. There are some survivors that are toxic and BM and to that I say if they wanna go low, meet them there. But yeh I just wanna chill and not sweat out my butt every game.
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There is a single reason to tunnel someone out when the game basically just started or when it's only been a few minutes into the game. This is because games are games, not recreation.
Killers should tunnel in situations where tunneling is effective, since it doesn't have to go against the structure of the game. Survivors say "If you tonnneling the survivor, the match ends with a gen rush, right?" and should threaten the killer. That is the basis of this game, it is not only a competition of strength, but a competition of wits.
The number of tunnels will not decrease as long as we continue to ignore the fact that tunneling is not simply done, but that survivors' clumsiness encourages tunneling.
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Just drop a chase hm. I see next time I will tell the killer :) thx for the advice
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Just like not every killer spends 12 hours a day playing dbd and acting like they are a comp killer. However, neither side should be going into matches expecting people to play inefficiently.
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That doesn't mean the other person is either. You should probably play a non-multiplayer game.
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This has to be the best answer I read. I would say that killers get a buff to gen speed as they spread their hooks (with more hooks the gens take longer) meaning 12 hooks will make a gen take like 1.5 times the time a normal gen would take so 90 + 45 seconds and if they kill a survivors not only will that buff decrease for well the 3 hooks a survivors has but also give the survivors a buff to the gen speed increasing per survivors dead. Meaning a gen might take only 60 seconds instead of 90 if a person is dead. I think this would be an amazing solution and would encourage killers to spread their hooks because it does give them an attractive advantage and make the game more enjoyable. Maybe with every gen completed the speed for the next gens takes longer too so if the first gen gets rushed all next gens take a bit longer or sth like that.
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Well, I've mentioned the event because some players tend to play less effectively during events. But this situation has been happening way before Blood Moon.
Ever since the DS nerf, actually.
And there will always be the knowledge that tunneling is frowned upon. Back in the day many killers would resort to it only if absolutely necessary, and we had both DS and BBQ to help against this strategy. If the knowledge that no one is having fun isn't enough to stop tunneling, then we need perks to solve the problem.
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