Pig dash is only good with addons
+50% charge time (reduced with the other addon) and 6% movement speed feels like must have now.
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Yeah, that's what I said on PTB feedback. Without these addons Pig's dash remains basically same as before.
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Totally agree. Those addons are almost necessary
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I mean no offense guys, but her other addons do nothing for her playstyle basically... So if you want to go for chases you just use those two addons, and since they are yellow you should have enough to run them every single game... Don't get me wrong I would like some more addon variety, but at least the dash is viable now.
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I didnt even noticed the dash buffš
But i noticed the crounch buff!
I wish they removed the dash and buff her traps a lot making them very dangerous and afterwards a basic m1 killer. You win or you die!
Post edited by Princesse_nico on2 -
That just sounds terrible to go against and boring to play as xD
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Yeah I feel like I went from using Combat Straps and Workshop Grease every match to running John's Medical File and Workshop Grease every match.
Don't get me wrong, it's a buff, but it still feels like burning both my add on slots just to have a clunkier, less reliable version of other killers' ambushes.
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SheĀ“s literally unplayable without them ngl
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My take on her add-ons: -
S tier
- Workshop Grease - uses all her buffs to maximum effect, works with everything and resolves a lot of the hold W from pallets problem. Basically this add-on just makes all of the Pig's buffs better in every way, no matter which build you're running, and you can't go wrong with it in almost any setup.
A tier
- John's Medical File - 4.2m/s crouch speed is very good for sneaking around without much penalty, especially in maps with a lot of LoS blockers. More importantly though it allows Pig to crouch and stand for mind games vs. holding W at pallets with barely any loss of distance. Very solid add-on.
- Last Will - While not so hot on it's own because of the hold W from pallet problem, when combined with Workshop Grease, you have a 17% faster ambush, that moves noticably faster and gets pretty strong on a large variety of tiles. Can be W'ed from, but an experienced Pig knowing the right moments can really make that extra 20% lunge distance and 0.3s faster crouch basekit count hard.
- Video Tape - Starting with all traps deployed allows for some good build synergies to get a strong foothold early on, particularly with Ruleset No.2 or Jigsaw's Sketch. With the loss of pig box auras though, unless you've learned all the spawns it's more difficult to find survivors efficiently compared to before, so is not as strong as it once was, but it's still undeniably efficient for slowing down the early game for Pig when you're weakest. It does also lose the ability to drag survivors away from any pallets they go down under though, so drops to the lower end of A tier.
- Tampered Timer - Still very nasty with scream builds; low effort with a pretty decent chance of dooming a survivor on a large map with little work from the Pig. Especially nasty when combined with the 16s+ that Crate of Gears can add. Needs things to line up right, but that isn't too hard to achieve, and can be very ugly.
B tier
- Ruleset No.2 - Still very good for buying early game pressure when combined with Video Tape, and anyone not respecting traps can be caught out with Tampered Timer and scream builds. It buys a lot of time from survivors having to hunt boxes without auras, and unlike other add-ons, it is not really encumbered and still does its job by the fact the Pig lost her box auras. It tends to make survivors run about looking for boxes more, it helps Pig get more out of her new chase buffs.
- Amandas Letter - While the loss of 2 head traps is a significant loss, the reworks improved crouch speed at base, crouch transition time, and longer ambush lunges allows the aura read on this add-on to become pretty potent, and debatably worth the trap loss. It is especially nice when combined with JMF or WG. Even when using just the base crouch/dash changes, you can shore up the weakness somewhat with Jigsaw's Sketch or Annotated Plan, so definitely benefits across the board from recent buffs.
- Jigsaw's Sketch - The extra trap is ofc great, but the secondary effect is only really worth it with Video Tape to catch anyone being cheeky from the get go to try and repair a generator early instead of removing their trap. This combo in general however is a little weaker with the loss of auras on Pig boxes to find survivors without a lot of memorisation. Still good, but taking that slight hit in value compared to other add-ons available to Pig now.
- Crate of Gears/Bag of Gears - Main advantage of these was the extra time bought across the game (guaranteed 48s and 23.44s respectively), combined with better chances to push this further with boxes being easier to interrupt (4s and ~1.95 s per box) and reset the progress. Generally speaking this is more effort than it's worth now with the box auras being gone, unless you have godly map presense or invest in perks to help you. Scream builds can be nasty still here, but outside of that, the value is not as high anymore.
- Jigsaw's Annotated Plan - Another extra trap, but not quite as good synergy with Video Tape. Potential with Jigsaw's Sketch to really slow down the game heavily if the Pig can get all the traps out, however even with the chase buffs, that's a gamble that can backfire. It basically ensures you can't afford to route off to harass boxes unless it's a VERY juicy already trapped survivor almost falling at your feet, traps must be pushed out ASAP with almost no delay!
C tier
- Rusty Attachments/Slow Release Toxin Utility Blades/Face Mask - Same basic fundamental problem, they require you to go after an already trapped survivor to get value. There is some value with Video Tape in each case, and the mangled off Rusty Attachments is slightly better due to the additional slowdown it gives... but most of these effects are benign or outclassed by perks.
- Razor Wires - Only really useful against less experienced survivors who can't hit skillchecks consistently, unless you plan to he harassing off boxes a lot. Even then, it's only worth a damn if the survivor is not already injured. The chance of a skillcheck is high on boxes, so if you're lucky with scream builds it can do some stuff, but generally it's hard to get any consitent value out of it.
D tier
- Interlocking Razor - Worse than Razor Wires, as even new survivors will likely have little issue here. A scream build again might do something, but if you're trying for that you have FAAAAR better options.
- Combat Straps - We salute your sacrifice friend! Now this is basekit, the additional 0.1s it provides is barely noticable, there is almost no reason to take this. It does offer a SLIGHTLY faster ambush startup though, so makes it marginally easier to time your dashes at tougher tiles, but it's so niche it's not really worth it.
E tier
- Shattered Syringe - We also salute your sacrifice friend. Now this is basekit, and you have the same effect via Workshop Grease but that add-on is waaaaaaaaaay better, and stacking this on top just basically does nothing. No matter what you're trying to do there is always another better add-on option.
- Amanda's Secret - This add-on... I don't know why I would want this aura read at any point. If I'm ever in a place to capitalise on this, chances are I will have already seen them with the eyeballs in my head or heard Billy's laugh. If I'm not in range to capitalise, I'm usually too busy to really pay attention to it to get any value of the direction they're heading, and even if I wasn't, this survivor just came away from NOT doing gens. I'm more concerned about the other survivors anyway more often than not. No value from the notification, I already know the trap got removed from my HUD... and it only procs 4 times a match, maximum of 5 with Jigsaw Sketch or Annotated Plan. I genuinely can't think of any reason to ever run it... Honestly even something like just being able to hear Billy's laughs globally so I could count the jigsaw box searches... that would be 10 times more useful than this add-on is currently, even without the boxes auras....
Those are my takes! Link if you wanna make your own! https://tiermaker.com/create/dead-by-daylight---pig-addons---530-1365466
Post edited by UndeddJester on2 -
Amanda's Secret with Crate of gears is massively slept on for headpop builds. Run it with ultimate weapon and or face the darkness, and you have a very difficult build to go against.
ALSO I feel Combat straps should go up just one tier...? Its only 0.1 but with WSG its really good to use with loops.
other than that, goated tierlist
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The upside is that unlike the killers with better anti-looping tools her traps give her built in slow down.
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I was a whiny douche during the change, but playing pig feels so satisfying, one slept on thing is the blood point changes which makes farming with pig sooooo good, that being said I really wish work shop grease was considered in.
maybe like...
make the dash base 1.5 seconds to charge
Bring Workshop grease down to 40%
Running Workshop Grease makes it 0.9 Second charge which is only slightly faster than before but does make pig less add-on reliant
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the funny thing is that PTB where they made killers less add-on dependant is same PTB that pig gets add-on dependency to use dash.
It is like dev forgot to make pig less add-on dependent when changing her.
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Help me understand. Iām new at pig. Why Amandaās secret? If the trap is off you see the aura but the head pop is over now that the trap is off no?
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Cheers lad!
Did you mean Amanda's Letter? If so, you have the 3-3 traps or the 2-4 traps. The 2-4 traps are nasty, and yeah, that would be ugly for a scream build, though I'd be concerned about losing the other 3 survivors trying this. Crate of Gears gets substantially less value overall, since it's now only giving 24 seconds of extra slowdown instead of 48... but your ability to force a head pop can't be denied :D
Hmmm... maybe you're right with Combat Straps. With frame perfect input and perfect movement, it can buy you up to 0.4m on a survivor at a loop, which isn't a slouch. Realistiically it's probably more like 0.3m most of the time. My experience thus far is there are rarely instances you are just chasing it round a tile to score a hit before a pallet, typically if you can do that you're on the pallet yourself, and the survivor has nowhere to hold W to. In this scenario it's the direction thats the mind game, instead of the speed of the mabush. Usually your issue is the surivvor holding W from pallet (JMF is far superior vs. this), or the surivor camping the pallet and waiting to see which way you commit to effect a stun (Last Will would be better to fake one way for the drop and go back the other)...
So in niche scenarios its undeniably good... the problem is a survivor very rarely gives you those scenarios, and when they do, the chance this add-on was the difference between a hit and miss is... pretty low in my experience thus far.
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i think combat strap is good IF it is used when a pallet is dropped. Here's a image of what I mean.
If your looping around a pallet, you want to be standing-up at 115% m/s entire time because you maximize distance gain. When survivor is in reach of your dash, you want to dash on reaction as quickly as possible. Combat straps is artificially a -charge time add-on IF you play dropped pallets.
Most pig players break pallets though. Last will is opposite, Last will is stronger if survivor is stuck in corner of the map and cannot transition the tile, so if you dominate the pallet possession, Last will drawback of -charge time is meaningless because survivor is not moving anywhere. Your not losing any distance from -charge time and you gain total movement distance for moving faster.
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Aye, that makes sense, there is the issue I tend to find is that even with Combat straps, it's rare you're going to be able to reach the survivor before they vault, there are scenarios it happens, but those scenarios are not common. The normal way that scenario plays out is you charge the ambush and the survivor either waits and vaults when you commit, or you fake and either catch them on the opposing side or you make them hesitate and catch them just before they vault. In both scenarios throwing the dash quickly doens't tend to be a factor, as the survivor will reach the vault before you catch up with ambush.
However teh real issue with combat straps now is even with this scenario you describe, JMF is almost as good, and in most other scenarios, straight outclasses it. When you crouch, your movement speed slows over the duration to your crouch which is 1s at base. With JMF your speed is degrading from 4.6 to 4.2m/s. That means over the course of that crouch, you are moving quicker over that second than you are without JMF.
Combat Straps reduces the crouch time to 0.9s and your new shift is from 4.6 to 3.8m/s. So not only are you transitioning to a slower speed, you are also doing it faster, which means the drop off of your speed is sharper on combat straps than it is on JMF. I haven't fully sat and crunched the numbers because I'm not sure exactly the acceleration algorithm DBD uses, but from my feel thus far, the time you save with 0.1s on the crouch transition to fire ambush faster, is undone by the small distance loss you have over that transition compared to JMF.
To do it quickly with mechanics maths (and there is the caveat I'm not sure this is accurate to how DBD speed scaling works, but):
Combat Straps: -
- acceleration = (3.8 - 4.6) / 0.9 = -0.888889
- distance = (4.6 * 0.9) + (0.5 * -0.888889 * 0.9^2) = 3.8484m over the transition
JMF: -
- acceleration = (4.2 - 4.6) / 1 = -0.4
- distance = (4.6 * 1) + (0.5 * -0.4 * 1^2) = 4.4m over the transition
The JMF Pig gets to walk an additional 0.55 of a meter further than the Combat Straps Pig before starting their ambush, which the ambush needs to claw back for Combat Straps within 0.1s. With a dash at 6.9m/s, travelling 0.55m takes 0.0797s to get to the same starting point as JMF. The conclusion is the difference of JMF and Combat Straps is Combat Staps actually only saves 0.0203s over JMF, or (6.9m/s * 0.0203s) 0.14m.
Of course JMF has the other benefit of allowing you to walk around much quicker without a TR with a low profile, and allows you to mind game a dip for an ambush better than Combat Straps for the same speed transition point. So all combat straps actually offers... is 0.14m gain over JMF in this one specific scenario, that you rarely find yourself in, and if you do, is is rare that combat straps is actually what gave you the hit.
This might not be the exact numbers, but it won't be far off... so that's why I rank it so low... there is almost no reason to take it over JMF.
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I agree, āš¼ maybe a small buff is in order? A lot of people still brought this up on the ptb. Iām new to pig but when I use this ppl hold w.
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JMF allows your m/s in crouching to be faster. we are not using crouch in chases because it slows us down. we're crouching->ambush dashing immediately. the total time to do this is 1 second+ 0.75. Combat straps reduces it to 0.9 second. If you press crouch then hold m2, you'll be able to m2 charge faster. there is no drop-off speed to crouch. your drop-off speed becomes like 25% m/s because that is movement speed when charging ambush dash.
The difference in charge time is low in comparison to workshop grease but the add-on indirectly buffs workshop grease from 50% to 60% because crouching is prerequisite to ambush dashing.
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Fair, I may need to lab it more. I believe the charge for ambush only begins when the crouch transition it fully complete, but I've not proven that.
However just so we're clear, the fact we are instant triggering ambush is already in my calculations. The point is that you move further during the 1s transition with JMF than you do in the 0.9s transition with combat straps. I'm not 100% sure by how much exactly, because I haven't used the exact mechanisms for acceleration that DBD uses in its source, but it is there. When you factor that difference of distance in, combat straps gains you less distance on the ambush than you would think over JMF in the same timeframe.
If my calcs are right, the difference is pretty negligible, and the other advantages that JMF brings heavily outweighs Combat Straps.
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JMF is stealth enabler add-on for pig, combat straps is something like Last will. It is chase-improvement add-on. If the number were much bigger, like 30-40%, that would be one of her best chase add-on's alongside workshop grease. unfortunately, the add-on number were significantly reduced.
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I'm not trying to be a jerk... but you did read my entire post right? I understand the theory of the design and intent, but with things in this current state, in practice this distinction doesn't hold up. I proved that with mathematics... Combat Straps literally only saves you 0.14m or 0.02s over John's Medical File in chase...
Correct me if I'm wrong... but 14cm doesn't seem a lot of value compared to an equivalent add-on on the same tier, that also helps you in chase to nearly the same degree, allows you to traverse the map stealthily, and mind game far better at tiles by doing a quick crouch/stand up.
The conclusion of which, there is virtually no point to run Combat Straps... the add-on is now completely outclassed vs. it's other add-ons, and unfortunately made largely obsolete by the basekit changes...
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