Revert Blight hug tech

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  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    You brought different things in your comment. First, I don't agree that Oni flicks are easy. To learn his flicks it took me a lot of practise and I'm not that consistent especially now that I play at 120 fps. Please avoid saying that it is hard because I'm not good with Oni. I've played Oni since his release.

    Second, I agree and I understand your view about the hugtechs being very strong. In this case why remove it entirely? If anything make it at least weaker or more difficult to do.

    Third, I disagree what you said about the Nurse. She is able to ignore pallets and windows while Blight has to follow the game rules. Me personally I consider the Nurse still too strong, but this is a different topic.

    Fourth, I don't know about the Blight being able to destroy with the bump logic. There are still loops or walls that are too long in order to reach the survivors, it was possible with the pre nerf speed add ons, but now is unlikely.

    Fifth, idk about Billy not needing skills… Yes, it is much easier now tha before, but you still need some weeks or months before you can master him. Lets not forget that with the base speed , survivorvs have enough time to react on mid size loops. It is difficult to dodge during the overdrive, but it also makes the killer way more difficult to controll.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    You are an obedient and conformist person then. So you don't see filters or cross hairs as "cheating/give an unfair advantage"?

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,728
    edited March 28
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    I find filters cheating, as it bypasses intended gameplay choices of dark areas and such. The problem is, devs have no way to do anything about it since it's built into legitimate hardware. They don't have a choice but to okay it since there no way to actually detect or stop it. You're welcome to visit my YouTube channel. You'll notice I never run filters. It's lame and unfair against my opponents.

    Not sure where crosshair concerns come in. It's not a shooter. Same boat, though. Back in the day, people would put a dot on their physical screen. One of those things that can't be enforced.

    Bugs in the game code/engine itself though is very kuch detectable/fixable/enforceable.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    So you talked just for talking instead for saying something. Sounds like a revenge response. Like I said before, you knew perfectly what I meant. I said "You can see the foot prints only when he is NOT using his power. Our debate was about his flicks which you can only do it while in power and I said that it is less enjoyable if you don't see the killer easily". Your response insinuated that the random foot prints around are relevant. No, they are not, so saying that there are foot prints around doesn't change my argument. So yes, it was a meticulous response from you.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    Since they are a bug, all the arguments in my original post are irrelevant? Try to avoid seeing it black and white and read what arguments I gave.

  • adam1233467
    adam1233467 Member Posts: 933
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    I will give my opinion, I dont mind if they remove hug tech, he has that for such a long time, but, I would rather recieve his iri addons get nuked than removing hug tech, but, I really don't mind if they removed hug tech, Mandy mande a post 2 years ago that hug tech was a bug and it will be removed at some point

  • Mag1cian
    Mag1cian Member Posts: 76
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    The problem with hug itself is V1 mostly which you don't have a chance to counter, you physically can't react to it most if the times. If they somehow can get rid of V1 but keep core hug it's fine I guess but I doubt it as they connected to each other.
    I didn't compare Nurse and Blight there, I only said about something broken, providing Nurse as an example.
    Yes he is, that's what most of the Blight mains do, bump logic + experience and you still can destroy.
    Billy was very skill dependent before buffs but now people can do a lot of mistakes and not getting punished for it, most of the players not even doing curves anymore and just abusing low k/d after miss with Thompsons' Mix and playing him as m1 killer which is sucks. LoPro on new Billy is OP btw, literally zero skill needed.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,728
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    If something is a bug, then the devs either need to embrace it or fix it. It's quite black and white. People will absolutely exploit bugs to gain advantages, so the devs need to either accept them into gameplay or fix them if they are not considered acceptable gameplay.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    I think we agree at this point. I understand why the V1 tech is seen as problematic, but the normal hug tech should stay. As someone that curves all the time I see the real challenge of Hillbilly. And yes, lopro is op. They should either remove it or making it Iri.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    Ofc the devs can do whatever they want. I just said "try" to not look it blavk and white and see my arguments for a min.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,128
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    The Devs never stated that doing hug-tech is an exploit. So stop saying that they are.

    Or are you also saying CJ-tech/Window-Tech is an exploit?

  • adam1233467
    adam1233467 Member Posts: 933
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    This was a post made in 2022, it doesn't say that it's an exploit, but it does say that it was never intentional

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,728
    edited March 29
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    They literally said it was. I know people hate facts, but come on, if the devs literally say it's a bug that is NOT intentional - enough to be warranted as needing a fix…then you can't argue that they never said that. If you need a definition, In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitch, or use elements of a game system in a manner not intended by the game's designers, in a way that gives an advantage to players using it.

    If the devs say it is, and you say NUH UH, I don't know what to tell you.

  • accessoire
    accessoire Member Posts: 21
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    Read my comment on why it is not a problem that it was a bug. The game has so many bugs that the community marked as techs. and this is not a problem but on the opposite a good thing that should be encouraged when it is not rly broken.

    And no Blights Hug Tech is not broken or to strong you just have to learn how it works on both sides and get good with it.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,728
    edited March 29
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    The devs disagree. I totally get where you're coming from, but when the devs specifically say that it isn't cool, it's a problem, and that it will be fixed, then it needs to be fixed - and definitely not encouraged to be exploited against other players.

    There are things that I don't agree with that BHVR claims. For example, I'm not a fan of the game being a 1 vs many individuals as opposed to a team vs team, but it is what it is, and we need to balance around their intention.

    Also bear in mind, I'm a killer main. Despite the "hug tech" helping the side I main, I still find that exploits need to be fixed regardless of who can use them.

  • Yoshirama
    Yoshirama Member Posts: 318
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    I don’t find interesting getting hit because the killer just slides. I’m glad that bug was finally fixed.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    "We need to balance around their intention". No, we don't. Like what?? The community allowed the game become what it is now. So lets not pretend that they are these gods we have to follow. We are the customers and customers can disagree about the product. Stop kneeling to the devs and say what you really think is good or bad without involving what devs said. I said in my previous comment "try to not look it black and white and see my arguments for a min". Look my arguments and tell me what you think without bringing the devs.

  • Chaosrider
    Chaosrider Member Posts: 489
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    Whats even intereseting in having to face something thats plainly unfair? Unintended techs just make the game more miserable. Thats it.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    Removing techs will only make the game more "flat" and it will lower significantly the skill ceiling.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,903
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    In general I'm against bug abuse for advantage, but especially so for top tier Killers. If this type of bug were on Doctor, I would give it a pass, because he honestly needs way more help than BHVR gave him. These bugs are on Blight and Oni though. They are already way too strong for the effort needed to abuse their bugs. The problem with bugs for Survivor is that they can be used against Blights as well as Doctors. As such, I'm glad they actually plan on finally fixing this bug (but I need to see the actual effects to know for sure).

  • Chaosrider
    Chaosrider Member Posts: 489
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    So the skill ceiling is using something thats not intended to gain unfair advantages? IThose are total one-sided mechanics, that just shouldnt existz. Stop defensing something thats not defendable.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    I agree that Oni flicks are really strong, but don't forget he has to earn power and the power is very limited. As an Oni main I can confirm there are so many loops in Dbd that an Oni without the flicks wouldn't be able reach the surv. The removal of the flicks would significantly make him weaker.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 1,903
    edited March 29
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    ( Edit: semantical difference feel free to ignore) If you played a soloq match against an Oni, or played more than 3 matches as Oni, you would probably never say you need to 'earn' the power. It just serves as a early game delay before you can use it more than anything. Every match I've played as Oni I only run out of power once there are only 2 Survivors left alive, so I find the limit meaningless.

    Oni isn't made weaker by removing his bugs, he is made fair. Same with all bugs that advantage one side or another. Survivors glitching into lockers aren't made weaker by removing that ability, they are being fixed, and made fair. If you want to rely on bug exploits to win, then the locker glitch is a perfect example of how that is unacceptable for the game at large.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    You are the classic person with a black and white view. Stop for a minute using the "not intended" argument and try to understand what it gives at mid and especially high level games. Both sides have techs that make the game more interesting and only the better players can do.

  • Skitten56
    Skitten56 Member Posts: 365
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    There is a difference between techs that use standard intended game mechanics to their advantage and techs that exploit existing bugs that have not been fixed yet.

    Hug tech is performed by exploited a bug in the collision of objects. Stuff like CJ tech is just a part of the game, using knowledge of a game mechanic where an object cannot be interacted with while in use and thus is perfectly fine. BHVR should allow for more key binding options to avoid prompt issues but it isn't a bug.

    So no, not all techs need to be removed, but Blights hug tech should be removed since BHVR has always identified it as a bug they intended to fix. Blight players relying on this tech were just exploiting the bug until BHVR patched it and shouldn't cry about it removal.

  • Spirit_IsTheBest
    Spirit_IsTheBest Member Posts: 854
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    No thanks. It's an exploit that should've been removed a while ago.

  • accessoire
    accessoire Member Posts: 21
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    The Devs are not an all knowing Entity and if they are smart, they balance around the opinions of their players that actually play and pay for this game. Therefore this argument is just wrong.
    In a Feedback post, where Blight players voice that they think this is not good, it is not a valid thing to say but the devs don't like it and it should be removed.

    We are here because the devs want it removed to ask them to keep it. Yes it is a bug but not all bugs have to be fixed and it is often smarter to keep some and reimplement them in the game (read my original comment).

  • accessoire
    accessoire Member Posts: 21
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    Or how about this:
    We say okay it is a bug. Our players like it and it has a lot of skill expression and mechanical details so we keep it cause it has been fine for years now.

    If we want to balance our killer we focus on numbers and add ons.
    This way we keep a mechanic that Blight players love (and yes that is fair if you learn it and how to play against it) and we still get to nerf blight in another form (give him 4 rushes, make him 5 percent slower, remove all the addons with speed and turnrate)

    This way Blight is not Op and Blight players can still have fun with him problem solved???

  • Skitten56
    Skitten56 Member Posts: 365
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    If they want to make Hug tech an official thing, I am okay with it if that is what BHVR decides. I don't think Blight needs it and while it does add skill expression to the killer and likely more enjoyment for Blight mains, I believe it is generally unhealthy for the game and less fun for survivors overall. I mainly just disagree with comparing a bug tech to other techs in the game, and those who used the bug exploit complaining about its removal when they knew all along it was a bug and likely would be fixed in "years".

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
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    If I had to choose stupid bump mechanics that yeet my own blight on some stupid trees or rocks or removal of hug tech, I'd choose latter.

  • Ohyakno
    Ohyakno Member Posts: 715
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    No, but the devs are professional game designers, unlike your local blight enjoyer. Groups of people are frequently wrong about any given topic and sometimes experts know better regardless of popular sentiment.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    Omg… Did you forget the Hud changes at the start? Did you forget the animations changes for survivors at the start? Did you forget that they tried to make healing 24 secs? Did you forget that they wanted to nerf both Engravins? Did you forget that they reworked Skull Merchat and still sucks? Did you forget how unfun they made Sadako to go against? Did you forget that they just changed Huntress base kit without barelly touching the add ons?????

    Whatever you like or not, the devs are not these gods that we have listen. We customers have more knowledge in some aspects then a developer that has more generic knowledge that many times is based of statitics. I'm not saying that they ignorant, ofc not, but can just stop pretend that we have to listen to every single thing that they do or say? Stop kneeling and give your OWN view without briinging what the devs have said years ago.

  • o7o
    o7o Member Posts: 335
    edited March 29
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    Hug teching is a “bug” that should’ve been incorporated into Blights mechanics. It is completely harmless and any semi-decent (you don’t have to be the best survivor) knew how to play safe against it.

    All the Blight haters rejoicing when bump logic was more effective anyway.

    I’m all for playing Blight in the most boring & simplified way but don’t come complaining when y’all realize bump logic Blights are awful to go against.

  • accessoire
    accessoire Member Posts: 21
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    SilvrSilvrCrane already brought it up but the Devs are not the "experts" on how the game is played. The experts on dbd and Blight are the top tier Killers and Survivors that play as Blight and against him. And all of them say that it is a stupid idea that hurts skill expression (see Momo or V1 on Twitter/X.)

    The Devs are not perfect and they don't need to be as long as they listen to the community feedback. So pls stop telling people in the feedback post that their feedback is invalid cause the devs want it that way this makes 0 sense.

    If you have a personal problem with how Blight is played you can express it.

  • accessoire
    accessoire Member Posts: 21
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    You make it obvious that you don't have much experience playing and learning Blight.

    You just want an easier version of him because you don't want to learn the difficult high skill expression Blight he is right now.

    Cause the slide mechanic is while difficult a mechanic consistend enough that good Blight players can master it and go on streaks in the thousands with him.

    So while you feelings are valid why should it be a good thing to make the killer boring for the current Blight players just so that new ones have an easier time learning him?

  • accessoire
    accessoire Member Posts: 21
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    Blight does not need it and is still a Top tier killer without it yes.

    The players that play and master him need it cause it is a difficult but fun mechanic that makes it possible to spend hours in dbd learning and mastering his skill expression.

    The mechanic is not unhealthy and HAS good Survivor looping counterplay (more then bump logic blight) if the Survivors take their time understanding what is possible with blight. So it has skill expression on both sides.

    That it is a bug doesn't matter as i have explained above.

    Yes you can compare it to other techs because most techs in dbd where never intended and are bugs. This is fine that way and they should not be removed as this takes away depth form the gameplay.

  • fulltonon
    fulltonon Member Posts: 5,762
    edited March 29
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    Whatever, I've connected more than hundreds of slide kills too but that was extremely map dependent and not exactly satisfying anyway.

    The fact killer HAS TO learn every one of the stupid objects whether it can be bumped or not was stupid, I don't mind if they decide to let blight himself decide whether he slide or bump too.

    I've even intentionally managed to get hit due to "slidable objects" and not of slide tech, more often than not I wishes I could bump "slidable object" though.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,128
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    An exploit is something that is bannable. They have never stated that abusing hug-tech is bannable, so it's no exploit. I know the devs say it's a bug, but let's just wait for the PTB what happens to blight.

    I just hope that not more techs will be fixed, because they add to the depth of the gameplay. A lot of characters would be very clunky if you'd remove all the techs and survivor would just be bland.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,128
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    I just wish that they would go through all the techs and say if they are a bug ior not just to clarify it for the rest of eternity. I am sick of the people accusing me of exploiting just because I did a window-tech, moon-dash as Piggy or Wesker's skinny bert and hug-tech.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,728
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    An exploit is an exploit. It does not require a bannable offense to be in there. In no way is bans remotely tied to the definition of an exploit. You can make up your own definition all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that an exploit is abusing a bug for an advantage. A lot of exploits BHVR steps in and killswitches so players stop cheating with it, for example.

  • accessoire
    accessoire Member Posts: 21
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    You just confirmed that a player has to learn the power and the maps to be good at the killer right now. Which would be changed and made easier with the patch.
    That is not good game design. Most people agree on the fact that a hard and complex but fun and rewarding killer is better than a simple and easy to learn but dull killer.
    (Otherwise they could just make a killer that has an M2 that has a 100% hit every 20 seconds. No one wants that cause it is boring to play as and against.)

    That is why this change is horrible. It's not that it would make him weaker. It's just making him more boring and less complex for anyone playing him for a long time.

  • Ohyakno
    Ohyakno Member Posts: 715
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    Skull merchant is way better than she used to be. I never said the devs are infallible. My point is that design by committee sucks. Feedback is important but not the entire thing.

  • Iron_Cutlass
    Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 3,048
    edited March 29
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    (This got merged into another Thread, I spent so long typing this only for it to be buried into another Thread… thanks.)


    This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think removing stuff like the "Hug Tech" is bad for the game.

    OTHER EXPLOITS WERE MADE MECHANICS…

    In DBD, we've seen a long series of bugs and glitches become features, in fact, one of the easiest ones to point out was "Spinning," it was originally an exploit with the movement system that was going to be removed but was kept as a feature because the community loved it so much. It adds another layer of depth for Survivors that makes the game more interesting.

    Overall, I feel as if removing stuff like this is overall a massive net negative for the game. The skill gap is reduced. The potential for both sides is limited. It makes the game less fun and dumbs it down.

    OTHER GAMES INCORPORATE EXPLOITS AS MECHANICS AS WELL…

    I come from many genres of games, I play a lot of variety. And with my experience in other games, I normally see it as a good idea to incorporate things that started as exploits but can turn into fun mechanics.

    In Warframe, certain melee slide attacks would launch you far, and with the right button combinations, you could slide insanely fast; this was eventually removed, but Digital Extremes decided to add more movement mechanics in a similar light, where button combos make you move faster and reward skill, they kept the original idea alive but improved it by making it access to everyone regardless of their equipment.

    In TF2, Rocket Jumping was based on a quirk with the Quake 2 engine, it gave various classes a new layer of depth and movement that lets players take advantage of their loadout to gain a tactical advantage. Furthermore, due to how it works, classes that do not have explosive weapons could benefit off of the enemies' weapons if they were skilled enough.

    DBD COMP SCENE…

    While the Comp Scene of DBD is vastly unpopular, this will have really awful affects for the Comp Scene of DBD.

    Seeing how prominent Blight was, the Comp Scene relied on the Hug Tech to not only help with certain loops but it just outright made the Comp Scene more interest to watch and engage with. Bump Logic was, and is, still superior to Hug Tech'ing, but Hug Tech'ing benefited the Comp Scene but directing more eyes towards the high skill ceiling and fancy plays that both sides could make.

    HUG TECH IS COUNTERABLE…

    That being said, with the Comp Scene seeing a lot of people use the Hug Tech, a lot of counterplay has been developed for it. It's not like Hug Tech'ing is this uncounterable thing, it quite literally just creates more room for interesting plays from either side.

    THIS EXTENDS BEYOND JUST THE HUG TECH…

    Anytime we get a new "tech", are we just going to label it as an exploit and remove it?

    Are we just going to dumb down the game for either side?

    I fear that removing the Hug Tech is not good for the game as a whole, because it sets an awful idea going forwards, that skill expression must be removed merely because "it's not intended."

    That instead of allowing room for more skill on either side, we must make the game as stale and boring as possible to cater to people who do not have the skill or might not understand the counterplay.

    This isnt an issue that affects a single side.

    Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on
  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,131
    edited March 29
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    Prediction, suvivors will still be pissed because what they thought was Hug Tech is still there.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • adam1233467
    adam1233467 Member Posts: 933
    edited March 29
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    Imagine this happens, they remove the option to hug tech looking down but you can still hug tech looking up, would be so funny

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,128
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    So did you report every Blight who did a Hug-tech?

    Why didn't Blight get killswitched ever if it is such a problem?

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    I can't even express how lose minded your opinion is. I told already at least 2 times to not looking at it black and white for a min. Read my arguments and tell what you think without bringiing what the devs said. They are not gods and you shouldn't be obidient to everything they say.

  • SilverCrane4643
    SilverCrane4643 Member Posts: 53
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    That guy doesn't want share his own opinion. He constantly brings the "the devs said it is a bug, so it should be removed". Not open minded at all.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,128
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    I have to think of the pan in PUBG. It was bugged in a way that it was bullet proof, so you could carry a pan with you to give you a bit of inpenetrable armor on your butt (or your face if you held it in your hand). The Devs kept it as a feature because they thought it was funny and because the community liked it. Later they even made a target skin for it.

    I also think that hugtech is OK, the only thing that annoys me is how often Blight has noodle arms.