It's Time All Killer Actions Can Be Cancelled

Options
_Onyx_
_Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342

Tru3 had a great idea about Killers having a small window, when performing an action, to cancel it. I'm gonna flesh it out and paraphrase it.

So, imagine locker searching, pick-ups, pallet breaks, and wall breaks have a similar progress bar as damaging a generator. After about 0.5 - 0.75 seconds of the animation beginning you can no longer cancel the action and you commit to it.

(Note: if this were to be implemented, I think it's only fair that damaging a generator has this same affect applied. Once you're a certain % into the damage action, you're locked into it.)

(Second Note: Vaulting cannot be baited or faked out)

This essentially gives Killers a chance to bait and fake out Survivors in loops, going for light and pallet saves etc. What with the way the game currently is when it comes to light saves, pallet saves etc the Killer only has three choices:

  • Look at a wall (though that doesn't counter Flashbangs).
  • Lightborn (though that doesn't work against pallet saves).
  • Slug them and try to find and chase a new Survivor and hope you down them quickly to maintain your potential pressure.

None of this is really good for a Killer player to choose from. No one wants to dedicate a valuable perk slot to a potential scenario (hence why Ultimate Weapon crybabies got their way, even though Calm Spirit exists). No one wants to feel like they are helpless to the other roles reactions. It'd just add more depth to the gameplay too. Especially when perks exist that can further be utilised to put the other role in an uncounertable scenario (OTR looping near a Survivor with Flip Flop+Power Struggle to guarantee the Killer loses all pressure) other example (Doctor with STBFL who defends against a hook rescue; guaranteeing that the Survivor cannot get the rescue at all and if they try to, they'll go down.)

Adding things to ensure there is more of a mini-game aspect to things is a good thing for the game.

Before the people against this idea rise up with pitchforks, know that this is highly unlikely to ever happen. Mainly because we're to expect all 'mini-game' style events to be phased out completely. Unhook Grabs are long gone, and now Survivors no longer being able to cancel an unhook is probable evidence for this conclusion.

Comments

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    Well, Survivors would need to learn the time/frame to look out for to know if the Killer is committing to the action. Killers can already bait with pallet breaks to make Survivors hesitate anyway, this is just a more sophisticated version of that, accessible to everyone, even entry level players.

    What makes you say that Killers shouldn't receive buffs right now?

  • SkeletalElite
    SkeletalElite Member Posts: 2,671
    edited April 16
    Options

    Being able to fake breaking pallets would have zero effect on strong pallets like shack or pallets that are centrally located, which are must kicks and severely nerf weaker pallets that can already be outplayed by good mind games or zoning survivors toward the edge of the map before breaking them, allowing the survivor to gain very little distance off the pallet break. That makes this a bad idea, in my opinion.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    You're kidding, right? Flashlights are a very strong item.

    List all the counters to pallet saves that Killers can do.

    You can already attempt to make Survivors hesitate and lose distance in a chase as is. This change would at least make the chases in those inhalers have an actual mini-game of sorts.

    You can easily add this to the Killer's tutorial.

    It isn't just about pallet fake outs though. You're getting hung up on that one aspect. The fake out is for every action (minus vaulting).

    It would be a massive improvement on interactions for both sides. You won't see it in every chase at every tile; you won't see it every time a Killer downs someone; but they will be used in those matches where it's needed. And in those matches, oh boy would they be needed.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 3,882
    Options

    How would this interact with background player? Does it only activate after the fake window is over? I don't think flashlights themselves are problematic, but perks in combination with them that allow you to make 30 m of distance and still get the save. The issue is as killer you can check the close by surroundings for a flashlight player, but when the guy can be across the map it becomes kind of problematic.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    If it were a change that was gonna be implemented, testing would be required to see how it worked. But I personally would have Background Player be triggered even if the Killer fakes it. Coz that way, even if the Killer fakes it and then looks around to see if anyone got baited, Survivors that have rushed towards them with it could still remain hidden if there's LOS blockers. Plus, even if they didn't rush in because of the fake, the perk is active for, what is it, 10 seconds or something stupid like that? So they could easily anticipate a cancel, and then rush in when they see the aura or HUD icon change and still be in position for a save.

    Yeah, on paper I would have BP be triggered even if it's cancelled.

    I agree with you, flashlights aren't a problem at all, it's BP that makes them typically unavoidable, especially if a Survivor goes down in the open on purpose because they saw before hand there's a flashlight in play or they're a SWF.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    You really shouldn't use the kill rates as actual data to base your conclusions from. The Devs even say this themselves in that same kill-rate data post.

    But, humouring it, if we do take that data seriously, Skull Merchant has the highest kill rate than all other Killers in the entire game. Skull Merchant! Nurse, Blight, Spirit aren't even up there lol The 3 strongest Killers don't even have the highest kills %. (They're not even in the top ten). The reason for that is most likely because everyone suicides on hook against her. So, a Killer which gets free kills, most likely every match, has the highest kill percentage, and the % isn't even amazing when you do the maths.

    Solo queue definitely doesn't need buffing. The only things weak about solo queue is no comms and no loadout synergy. Nothing stops them from doing long chases, being glued to gens when thet aren't being chased, being smart when it comes to healing/not healing, getting saves etc. In other words, having good game sense and a higher skill level.

  • KoreWaPantsu
    KoreWaPantsu Member Posts: 59
    Options

    Tru3 had a wonderful idea and I absolutely dig it for many reasons.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    Indeed, it's a really good one. What's your reasons for liking it?

  • KoreWaPantsu
    KoreWaPantsu Member Posts: 59
    Options

    It opens the gate of many more mindgames and create many possibilities for killers, but for survivors too seeking counter measures and the game becomes eventually more dynamic and fresh. I think this is the main reason.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    Yeah, that's the main reason I like it too; giving Killers actual input in situations where they currently are just at the mercy of Survivors.

    Too much control? Killers currently have no control in the situations where they're forced to lock themselves into an animation. Giving them a tool to cancel and essentially bait actions would give them SOME control in situations where they had none.

    What perks and add-ons would be made less useful with these changes?

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,177
    Options

    I don't think we need ambiguity for killer actions especially when survivors need to react quickly mid chase

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    That's a very narrow argument. Considering how safe the majority of tiles layout + spawns are in this era of DBD. On top of that, Survivors can afford to make mistakes in a chase due to the nature of a 4v1. The Killer cannot. One mistake has the potential to lose the Killer the match.

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,177
    Options

    There aren't as many "safe" tiles as you think even against m1 killers especially when ping exists.

  • Sarrif
    Sarrif Member Posts: 68
    Options

    Only if survivors can fake vaults and other animations as well. Would be cool to drop off a ledge but actually hang onto the side.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    What are you talking about? Ping has nothing to do with whether a tile is safe or not, in the context of this topic.

    What map rng do you get that you don't see pallet into pallet into window on the majority of maps? That argument is madness. This era of DBD has one of the safest tile spawn rngs that have existed in the games history.

    That should only be a thing if every single tile in the game was a 50/50. As it is, there are too many safe windows and frequent safe RNG spawns of these windows to warrant Survivors being able to fake a vault with an actual animation. And hanging onto a ledge would look goofy as hell lol the Killer wouldn't even be able to do anything about that if they followed them out to drop off.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    Lol you say that like the two types of fakeouts even compare in fairness

  • Sarrif
    Sarrif Member Posts: 68
    Options

    Look if killers can't handle survivor fakeouts then why should survivors have to deal with it?

  • caligraph
    caligraph Member Posts: 359
    Options

    nobody is forcing you to lock yourself into an animation. breaking a pallet/kicking a gen is optional.

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    The animations like pick ups and searching a locker do lock you into it though. If the pallet break one is too much then fair enough, but the locker search and pick up definitely needs a cancel option. Because Survivors can force you to lock yourself into an animation

  • _Onyx_
    _Onyx_ Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 342
    Options

    Because it's a 4v1. Survivors being able to constantly delay chases with the ability to vault cancel would drag chases on for even longer than they already are, in a state of DBD where even quick chases lose the Killer a generator or two.

    So no, it's not a "if they get this, I get that" deal. Killers need to be able to cancel their animations and do small fakeouts in order to add counterplay to the uncounterable bs stuff Survivors can manipulate (and do so more than ever in this era of DBD)

  • KoreWaPantsu
    KoreWaPantsu Member Posts: 59
    Options

    Manipulate and abuse, locking you, as a killer, in a blind state, usually twice, freezing yourself on the spot (aka "not playing", which is literally insane in a game if you ask me) for many seconds.

    Btw, in a chase the chased have the initiative, while the chaser must act in response of the actions of the chased one. A survivor can fake vaults ALREADY, not by cancelling animations, but just by mindgaming, and canceling animations will even be counterproductive most of the time (for the survivor). And please don't answer me by saying that "killers can mindgame too already", 'cause we're not talking about this.

    In the last, I dunno, two years maybe? DBD gave survivors a lot of stuff trying to balance the game, making their basekit richer and releasing very strong perks (and nerfing them later). I'm not saying that this isn't right, but that, as Onyx said, it's not "if they get this, I get that". If for the sake of balance (which is actually impossible to truly reach) then yes, one side should obtain something without giving the other nothing.

    I'll close this post saying this: it's not "us against them". I'm a killer as I'm a survivor. Every player is a potential killer/survivor. We're player playing the same game. If we start with this at every topic, every post and even every match, DBD will be much different (and it will not need any type of babysitting features).