SBMM Is Bad for This Game's Health
I've heard from several content creators recently that they are quitting or taking a break from DBD because it just isn't fun anymore. Games feel too highly competitive and it feels supremely punishing to try out goofy or fun builds (or even off-meta killers).
The thing is- the game is probably in its most balanced state that its ever been. There are many things that are OP, yes, but things are a lot more toned down from what they once were and I think Behaviour has been focusing a lot on feedback over the last year.
I think the one thing that is causing players to leave is the SBMM system. If you do good, you get paired with survivors or killers of a similar caliber. That means if you are at the top, you get paired with the top players. For a lot of experienced players, this just means you are pushed to play more meta picks as opposed to the goofy ones, because as I mentioned before it feels highly punishing to try out goofy builds.
Yes, it can feel bad as a new player to get paired with a highly skilled Nurse who ends the game in 1 minute. You know what else feels bad? Being an experienced player and getting that multiple games in a row. It can really suck to be the weak-link on the team and cause everyone to lose because you didn't bring Distortion/Dead Hard/whatever and can equally suck to lose as a killer when the survivors complete generators in 2 minutes because you didn't bring Corrupt/Pain Res/Pop etc.
Experienced players want to have goofy games too. Even just a casual non-SBMM mode would be nice… Yes you will still get the players that go try-hard but at least you don't have to worry about that happening every. single. game.
Now I'm not saying this will kill DBD or anything like that… but I feel like DBD would have a lot less people quitting and more player retention if SBMM didn't exist.
Comments
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Yeah the SBMM is horrible. I miss old ranks. Even though old ranks were broken at times to. I remember being a green rank killer and going up against 4 red rank survivors a few times and getting absolutely bullied to death when I was new at the game.
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I think they should call it something else. "Skill based" doesn't mean much. Skill expression has been removed. They should call Fog Rating or something.
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yeah like I said even though you would get games like this (which obviously sucked, don't get me wrong), I would personally take those days over now because I still had a lot of fun games in-between the 7-8 blink nurse games.
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Bringing rank based matchmaking back is a piss poor solution as it only brings back all the issues it had that people complained back in the days about it, an alternative matchmaking is what is required.
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The main reason SBMM is as bad as it is, is that everytime BHVR makes the matchmaking more tougher, queue times get longer and the playerbase complains.
Also doesn't help that Content Creators have an incentive to push SBMM bad, because tougher games isn't good for content creation.
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yeah like I said, I would be fine with just another permanent mode that's just like a "casual" mode or whatever.
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I would be fine with old ranks but I think it is nostalgia pushing a lot of it. Off meta builds become viable again with the old rank system but unbalanced games would also be more common.
It's your own preference which one you would have more fun with.
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The only mode available is casual. DBD has no ranking system.
If you want even more casual than what's currently available, then you can set up custom games.
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I don't think SBMM is bad in and of itself, but I think BHVR made several poor decisions regarding it.
They essentially enabled a ranked mode, except the ranks are hidden, not everyone is treating it as such, and there's no option for players on either side of the spectrum to queue for more competitive or more chill games. They tried to have their cake and it too here.
Let players have a more casual queue with looser matchmaking and no ranks attached to it. MMR is measured, but not a primary factor in the matchmaking for the casual queue. And give players a ranked queue with visible ranks and tighter matchmaking for those who want it and want to grind for it. The ranks and bragging rights are everything to that crowd. They'll wait in queue for 5 minutes.
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Its not really punishing to try out fun or non meta builds if you're good at the game. You need to go into the match with a different mentality other than thinking you deserve to win whatever perks you're using.
Biggest issue with Killers that inflate their own skill level by only using meta perks is that their weaknesses get exposed when you take those perks away.
I haven't used gen regression perks for a long time so it's easier for me to mess about and use different builds and still play well. It's also nice knowing that if you don't rely on meta perks then nerfs don't really effect you when they happen.
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This is just untrue. SBMM has been a known feature for a while and its what determines how you get paired up with other people.
The only mode available is wholly determined by this matchup, and yet players have no option to opt in or out of it since, as you said, its the only mode available.0 -
A matchmaking system doesn't make it a ranked system.
The previous matchmaking system, ranks, had a visible value and made it very clear who it was matching you with. That old system was more "ranked" than the current one.
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But those ranks still exist? You can still get up to Iridescent 1 and whatnot. Nothing has changed in that regard. Now there is an added invisible rank value in the background that determines who you get paired with. That's what a ranked matchmaking system is, regardless if its visible or not to the person.
Look, I'm not gonna argue on this point any further, just because that isn't the point of this thread, just that SBMM sucks.0 -
grades have nothing to do with matchmaking now and the invisible number ultimately doesn't matter because there's no way to compare them between players.
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Ranking system as in iron through challenger like what league of legends has. specific ranked categories directly tied to mmr / win ratio
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Let players have a slider that lets them decide if they want stricter matchmaking but longer queue times or looser for quicker games.
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Except that isn't the solution either as most people would stick to whatever mode gives them the easiest win.
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Except for the fact that there are tens of thousands of people like myself who would exclusively queue into competitive mode.
I don’t play casual in any game that offers a competitive queue, so I couldn’t tell you how many people look for low hanging fruit.But I can say that players who want to get really good stay in the competitive queue. Playing with casuals, when you want to show everyone how good you are, gets really boring really fast. Outplaying opponents who are actively trying to be better than you is infinitely more fulfilling than pub stomping someone who is hopping on the game for the first time in 2 months.
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This is exactly it for a lot of content creators. While I don't really feel too bad for the ones that focused their content on being bullies to survivors and killers, it does mean that the players that like to mess around or not take their matches seriously don't get as much freedom to do so anymore.
For competitive players, while the game is really close to being balanced now, it is only balanced if you play as sweaty and unfun as possible. If you try to play in an enjoyable way, both sides will most likely lose to whoever decides to be more optimal, and unlike other competitive games, being optimal in DBD is not synonymous with fun.
If you are a content creator that focuses on being one of the best, and competitive, and you decide to pick DBD as your game of choice for this, of course it must get exhausting. This is not really SBMM's fault, it does its job fine, but in DBD playing at the highest level is not fun for either side most of the time, so I see why competitive streamers move to games that reward them more for the effort they put in.0 -
Am I the only one here who actually enjoys the mmr system and thinks that it’s doing its job?
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No more than the fact that like in any online pvp game, more than enough people will take the easiest route to win because (big shock) people like to win, especially if it's easy.
It's even reflected in meta builds, people run the same perks exactly because they're the currently strongest and most effective perks to use in order to win.
A competitive and casual queue will not work because most people will flock to only one of them.
Also last i heard, there are more casuals playing this game than there are people playing it competitively.
Post edited by Smoe on0 -
more than enough people will take the easiest route to win because (big shock) people like to win, especially if it's easy.
It sounds like you’re drawing the wrong conclusion.
Yes, players like to win. Yes, players like to give themselves the best opportunity for success.
But players do not like easy wins.
Easy wins are boring.
Players run meta builds for all sorts of reasons—easy wins least among them. Players who really want easy wins will derank and/or smurf.
Here are a few common examples of reasons players run meta builds:- Players want to play at the highest MMR, so they need to constantly set themselves up for success
- Meta perks provide fun gameplay, just as any other builds might
- Players plan for the worst, and want to be prepared for when their opponent is trying to take the shortest path to victory or is facilitating a miserable gaming experience
- Players just came out of some really rough games, and need more assistance to compete with their opponents
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Can confirm, it’s not a fun experience as killer or survivor. As far as killer is concerned, you inevitably will be matched with very experienced players, who often play with comms. From getting slapped in the face by a locker door when picking up a survivor to a squad wielding fusion powered flashlights, que the lobby dodgers and weird quirks like survivors hiding their true level until the last second. Gross. I’m all for a challenge, but it’s impossible to have a good time as killer without maximum willing effort (genuine work), or stooping to extreme toxicity. If you give an inch. Which leads me to survivor. I’m dedicated solo que, because I know how unbalanced having 4 super survivors with comms actually is (max 1 duo plus 2 solos. 3 or 4 in a team, or even two teams of two is just cheap and stupid, pubstomping galore). So, as I’m getting facecamped by the unknown, I’m not even mad because I’m sympathizing with them. The cheapest tactics are the most reliable as killer, and the goal is to win. Not very fun for anyone. A very skilled nurse is scary and exciting. A face camping Billy is….. you know. Which do you see more? Why? Ultimately it’s impossible to balance solo que with pubstompers, and that’s where the balance needs to come. I understand playing with a friend, I also understand playing with a competitive team. Facecampimg is exceptionally effective against a team of people who are whining “unhook me”, you follow?
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Are content creators not having fun because they are being challenged by others and are not able to win every single game?
This is what it sounds like to me.
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You're being naive if you think the average player won't take the easiest path over the hardest path when it comes to winning over other people.
Also fun and boring are both subjective terms, while you may not find easy wins fun, i guarantee you that alot of other people will find it fun to do so, especially when it's such a common behavior for people in games to take the shortest and most efficient path to victory, especially when it comes to pvp games.
People pick meta perks because it increases their chances of winning, something that non-meta builds don't do nearly as much, which is why alot of people run builds that consist of the same handful of meta perks more often than not, with Solo Q being more likely to pick meta perks to plan for the worst since they're at a disadvantage, but swf are more likely to pick meta builds because it just makes their games easier.
I simply do not buy the notion that most people would rather play against other people of equal skill level over players who's skill level are below their own, otherwise people wouldn't be continuously complaining about the current mmr system being too sweaty and want the rank based matchmaking to return to this day, since you know, it's the matchmaking system that people claim made games much more chill for them simply because it came at the cost of less experienced players.
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People are complaining about current MMR being too sweaty, because people who don’t play competitively have been forced to play against competitive opponents.
A competitive game mode significantly reduces the amount of competitive players the casual player will encounter
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And making a competitive game mode won't stop sweaty comp players from going into the casual game mode for a chill and easy win, at the cost of the experience of all the casual players who were complaining about facing comp players to begin with.
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More so content creators are at the highest end of the skill spectrum, which subjects them exclusively to the highest ranked players (also usually content creators lol). It extrapolates every little unbalance to the nth degree. It’s undeniable that a team of top survivors will usually smash a top killer. The problem with sbmm is that you are made to play at that extreme level constantly, which prompts players to leave. Now, consider trying to complete challenges, which are often counter intuitive. You’re no longer doing a challenge, you are throwing the game (on either side). There needs to be a preference with some variation. As killer and survivor I get matched with the same people multiple games in a row, that alone is a clear indication that something isn’t working right.
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and making a competitive game mode won’t stop sweaty comp players from going into the casual game mode for a chill easy win
And yet, when you split the two groups of players, casual players have a significantly smaller population of competitive players to worry about playing against.
The current system does not benefit casual players at all.
Key:
A = Casual Players who like playing Casual
B = Competitive Players who like playing Comp
BA = Comp Players who like easy wins
AB = Casual Players who like to be challenged
C = Gets drunk every Friday/Saturday night and doesn't care what happens because they are just having a good time with their friends
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Your graph is based on the assumption that most people will play within their intended modes and stick to that, while only a smaller portion will deviate from it.
It may look good on paper, however like all things that looks good on paper, it is neither a guarantee nor a direct reflection of what will actually happen, especially not when there is nothing stopping the comp player population from playing in casual mode the exact same way they're playing in comp mode just to have some easy games at the expense of casual players.
Post edited by Smoe on0 -
you're just refusing to accept the fact that there are a large population of players who enjoy playing competitive and will stay in competitive ad infinitum.
Why? Because it fits your narrative.
Every single competitive player that queues into a competitive game mode is one less competitive player that casual players encounter. It's not rocket science.
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If anyone is refusing to accept any facts, it's you who's refusing to accept that the people who are playing this game will use and abuse any advantage they can get over others if it increases their chances of winning more easily, people have done it time and time again throughout the game's lifespan and will continue to do so whenever possible, which they are going to do with comp and casual mode as well if given the oppotunity.
It doesn't matter how many comp players that's queuing into comp mode, as long as there is nothing that's stopping them from switching over to casual mode at will and play the exact same way with the exact same advantage from comp mode against less experienced players in casual mode, then there is no reason to assume people won't do exactly just that when given the ability to do so, you thinking people won't do it just because you yourself won't do it is not only assumptious, but it's downright laughably naive.
Also even if your assumptious make believe idea that the majority of comp players are just gonna stick to comp mode and only comp mode had a realistic chance of happening, you're still gonna have the type of casual players who are playing sweaty and tryhard like who will play the exact same way in casual mode as well.
You won't change my mind on thinking that casual and competitive mode are a bad idea and i'm not gonna waste anymore of my time debating with you about it, so i'm ending this conversation now.
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I'd definitely wait longer for better match making and overall better quality games.
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