8 kicks per gen is too much 3 gen stragedy still too strong
3 gen stragedy is still very viable and in some situations even better than before like 3vs1. Killer normal kick takes now 5% progress and you can't just tap to stop the regression like before which means you lose lot more progress. 8 kicks is lot of especially when killer can have perks like pop, pain res and grim embrace.
They slow down the game a lot and take away lot of progress so killer does not need that many kicks to effectively camp the 3 gens and secure the win. So 8 kicks is too much I would say reduce is to either 5 or 6. You have to take account in soloQ players will not have samd patience as 4 man swf on coms.
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Agreed, I had a game on swamp with nemesis earlier and from the start they were protecting an awful 3 gen spawn near the tower thing and shack. The game lasted like 40 minutes and somehow with two people being solo Q we did manage to break it but man it was awful especially with the zombies. Gen tapping should come back but keep the 5% or the number of regression events should be four. OR alternatively whenever a gen is damaged it counts as a regression event for the purposes of blocking it for all gens within 32 meters or something like that.
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If you reduce the regression event limit to something lower than 8 I think it would start to affect normal games too often especially when using certain perks that contribute towards the total. It wouldn't just primarily affect 3-gen situations anymore.
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3-Gens are very niche, and the point wasn't ever to remove it as a strategy, it was to remove the endless stalemate it becomes. So 8 works for that.
With exception of a few killers known for 'forcing a 3-gen", when survivor's end up in a 3-gen it's their mistakes for doing so. When you make mistakes, there should be consequences that you have to overcome.14 -
I agree with this.
I think it is less an issue of the amount of gen kicks overall and more of an issue of bad map design. Maps got smaller to help M1 killers while completely ignoring how oppressive high mobility killers can get with how close the generators spawn together these days.
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We could always ask for the gen spawn logic to be adjusted as well and tweak maps from there. I can't count how many times I've been on a generator during a match and have essentially been less than 20 meters of at least one other gen, sometimes even two.
It would at least be a start towards making balanced maps for both killer and survivor, because that's where the issue resides.
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Yeah exactly this. If the devs are targeting at least 60% kill rate for even their worst performing killers and are adjusting maps to compensate, the killers already at 60% jump at least another 10 even 20% with those changes.
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I just want to kick gens for Trail, Nowhere to Hide, machine learning, Unforeseen and Call of Brine zombie value.
I literally can't take Jolt anymore as my only actual slowdown perk anymore because Jolt literally shuts my build off, but without it the gen that I wanted to Machine Learn gets popped just as I get there.
I could only accept this change if I can kick gens for 0%, but then CoB would bypass the whole point of 3 gen protection...
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I don't think it will affect normal matches when have you kicked the same gen 8 times? Because I haven't even once hit the limit and not either any of the killers I faced even we had skull mechant camping 3 gen almost from the start and the match lasted 30 minutes until survivors gave up.
I counted her kicking the same gen 7 times and other gens about same. So yes it would primary affects only 3 gen situation. Well other solutions would be bring gen tapping back or change gen spawns. But tapping would punish killers playing normally too so I think reducing amount of gen kicks is the best way to go.
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The killer can only have 8 regressions for the whole game and you still can't handle a 3 gens?
Come on, you can't be serious.
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Killer can have total 8 per gen not while match so potentially so in 3 gen situation that means 3×8= 24 regression events. I pointed out it's not fine as 3 gen stragedy still powerful with the other changes that made one gen kick very impactful. I don't have control over my teammates to make them have patience for 30+ minutes match.
It's still easy for killer to camp them even if my teammates play well as killer can caught survivor from bad situation when they can start the chase 10+ times and wait when they get lucky enough.
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3 gen situation that means 3×8= 24 regression events
Maybe don't focus all three gens?
Kinda hard to break 3-gen, when you don't know how…3-gen feature was supposed to prevent hour long game, it does more than that. It's not supposed to win games for you, because you don't know how to neither prevent, or break 3-gen.
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I genuinely think I had to take a few moments to re-read the post to make sure I got it right.
Not only is endless 3-gen gone, but all forms of gen-regression outside of Pop/Pain Res is considerably weakened. After a certain threshold of experience, most slowdown perks and non-regression kick perks are simply no longer worth it due to too little slowdown for a limited resource. Sure it won't be felt too much if you steamroll the Survivors, but when the playing field starts to equalize then warning spikes tend to show up often, especially if playing weaker/M1 Killers (those that need slowdown way more than the powerhouses).
I've been in games (and did it myself) where Survivors weaponized the regression limit by keeping an important generator (usually a center gen like the ones in the main hall of R.P.D. or main of Lérys and Eyrie or Ormond) at high progress, prompting the Killer to kick it since they don't want the gen to be completed, then simply pre-running but stopping the regression when the Killer goes away. After the gen has been kicked 4-6 times then it can be left alone until endgame to give a free last gen since the Killer will have to prioritize this gen.
This happens easily if perks like Surge/Eruption are brought since they take away regression events but do little damage, meaning it's not rare to end up with one of the last gens at least halfway-regressed (forcing the Killer into a bad situation even if the Survivors 3-genned themselves by not caring about generator order).
High-tier Killers (Nurse, Billy, Wesker, Blight etc.) and Area-Denial Killers (Dull Merchant, Knight, Trapper to some extent, Hag etc.) will always be better than average at defending a tight 3-gen due to how they can control an area (and since gen spawns tend to be pretty bad, especially on smaller maps, then it's not rare to find 3 generators within a stone's throw distance form each other. There's videos and entire threads about it. If a slow Killer can guard a 3-gen effectively for 50 minutes when there's still 4 Survivors alive then it's really on the Survivors at that point, literally just divebombing a gen and pre-running will effectively force the Killer to either stay at one gen eventually (and lose one of the other two) or commit to a chase (and probably lose if the Survivor doesn't go down quickly). A game ending in a 3-gen where both sides are roughly the same skill level will often still put the Killer on the defensive due to how it's very likely at least one of the gens has been regressed a few times.
If anything, the anti-3-gen system does way more than it should since it does affect normal matches if the Survivors don't go down easy (even more so for weaker/M1 Killers that also recently had 2 of their main perks, STBFL and Sloppy, heavily nerfed). If it didn't affect normal matches then Surge wouldn't have dropped in usage and tunnelling wouldn't have risen. The system should only kick-in when there's one gen left (and maybe reduce the regression events to 6-7 to compensate) in order to not kill a bunch of perks and make the game even more stressful for weaker/M1 Killers.
It's worth noting that the devs themselves stated that the mechanic should not affect normal matches. It does, this single change not only made tunnelling more common (which makes sense because Killers have less time to do their objective and a dead Survivor is the best slowdown) but also effectively removed several perks and created an entirely new meta.
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8 regression per game (per gen) is nothing. This is already very kind of the devs to help survivors who manage to 3-gen themselves.
I regularly hit the limit in a normal game without even the need for a 3 gen.
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the issue was always gen spawns not how much you can kick a gen. in a perfect world there'd be no max regression events because gen spawns would actually be reasonable.
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3 gen stalemates that last 60 minutes are not a thing anymore. COB received a 41% nerf to total regression, OC received a 61% nerf to total regression, and eruption no longer incapacitates survivors on top of the 8 kick limit. You have to actually get hooks to apply any worthwhile regression which means taking chases.
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The point of the system wasn't to prevent killers from holding 3 gens. It was just to prevent stalling out games to server timeout.
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Nothing? 1 kicks takes 5% of progress and causes gen to regress. Then add to perk like pop, pain res and you can remove 55% percent of progress with 2 regression events nothing? Then add grim embrace you can block the gens 12s 3 times and once for 40s. That is huge and making camping 3 easy. Especially dull merchant who can place 10 drones to the area. Many maps 3 gens are right side by side. So even once you get past that 8 regression events it's still take lot of time to fix them.
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It's 8 per gen, not 8 for the entire match.
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Okay let me explain the match which teached me 8 regression is too many
Demogorgon first played normally and chased bur camped me to second stage. Then he tunneled one of us out not me surpricingly he just wanted Jill death. He got her with the aura reading iri add on. But my teammatea unfortunately 3 genned us earlier one of those gen had regressed from 60% progress to 0%.
Now one other gen had been fixed to 50% but demogorgon regressed it with pop. Then he started to just camp the 3 gens
I focused on single gen my teammate helped but focused on the other gen after demo kept coming back to it. Other teammate started the middle gen then. But she went down as demo knew which chase to pick. My gen was regressed pain res and the other with pop.
Demo also kep putting portals on gens so we had tom remove those so he would not get surprice attacks. He kept coming to my gen kicking it again and eventually he downed someone again as they didn't heal and once we tried to actually heal he found us with the aura add on.
Eventually he got another down and again pain res, pop and grim embrace. My gen cosntantly went from 70% to down 20-40%. Other 2 gen got regressed completely. Eventually demo got one of us out and still continued camping the 3 gen in 2vs1.
I got my gen to 70% and he kicked it once again probably 8th time. Then chased me for minute and left as he knew the other gen was also 70% now. He went there and got the other survivor down. I had no hatch luck and he killed me too finding me with the aura add onn. The demo was P100 so he knew what tactics to use I give that he had good game sense but meh chase skills. The match lasted almost 40 minutes.
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Teammates 3 genning themselves in 2024 is somehow the killers fault? This entire story sounds like the killer played better than the survs and won.
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Okey let's say bhvr hears you and killers get even less regression events. Nowthe need to bring the strongest regression perks only is even higher and survs don't like that. With less regression events the killer probably has no way to fight against gens especially if he doesn't bring meta regression perks.
So now bhvr needs to rebalanced the game since fighting against the gens is futile. Are you gonna choose even longe m1 gameplay cause the gens need to take more time to finish or are you gonna pick shorter chases? One of the two would likely need to happen
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If he would played better he would not have to camp 3 gens and start chases over and over again until finally all pallets are used and when he caught one mistake from survivor whereas he made dozens of mistakes. That is literally the worst you can play but still win. Is the bar even that high to win agains't soloQ? If we would been swf we would whiped the floor with him.
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Survivors are expected to get escapes vs killers like demo. If it’s not going down to the last 1-2 gens then survivors have played poorly or the map rng was heavily against them. Surprise surprise without high mobility/scary chase powers you have to wait for survivor mistakes to get downs.
tl:dr the ball is in the survivors court and they air balled it
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If we would been swf we would whiped the floor with him.
exactly…
so it seems like buff for soloQ is more needed than nerf for killers.
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Having to repair up to 5% to stop regression can make some 3gen scenarios basically impossible to win. If the survivors don't have perfect coordination, a killer that can pressure both edge gens before survivors can stop the regression becomes a nightmare since they can keep gens regressing and even though survivors tried to repair it to stop regression, they can't get enough progress. This results in more consistent regression as well as not causing the generator to have more regression events, making the anti-3gen mechanic work against the survivors.
Obviously with a limit on gen regression events now in the game, gen tapping cannot return as it was before, otherwise it would be very broken. However I think reducing the amount of gen progress require to stop regression from 5% to 2.5% would be a good middle ground to help against these 3gen nightmare scenarios against hard 3gen builds on killers that synergize with them.
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Anti gen tap is fine unless the rng is so bad they’re on top each other which is not a problem with the mechanic itself. Even the strongest killers can’t do much about survivors working on a gen and leaving early when they return. They will use all gen kicks eventually unless survivors mess up.
what is a 3 gen build though ? Eruption is decent but overcharge and cob are heavily nerfed you can’t be in a 3 gen and win unless you’re taking chases and getting hook related regression.
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If regressions such as pop, painless, surge, etc. are exempted, I think it is fine to reduce them, but otherwise, the number of times the limit should be relaxed. It is not uncommon for some parks to reach the limit, even when they are not currently locked in 3gen.
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the 8 gen regression is a problem. It rewards rushing a gen. The best way to do deal with a 3 gen. Don’t pop gens next to eachother. Work from the center of the map to the outer ones. Can’t tell you how many times survivors pop a gen just to run to the one directly next to it. Put some thought behind gens
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