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Knight Now Has The Crown For Being The Worst Killer In DBD
The Knight has been absolutely gutted. A once excitingly unique power has undergone heavy nerfs to the point where their power is a joke and ultimately a hindrance to the player.
This is how The Knight's power currently works, for those who aren't too familiar:
- Has access to 3 Guards that cycle through the list after one has been deployed.
-- Carnifax; performs Orders in the shortest amount of time, has a medium sized detection radius, and has a long Hunt duration.
-- Assassin; performs Orders in the longest amount of time, is the fastest while Hunting, has the shortest Hunt duration, and has the smallest detection radius. Inflicts Deep Wound on a healthy Survivor that is damaged by it.
-- Jailor; performs Orders in the longest amount of time, has the largest detection radius, and has a long Hunt duration.
- While creating a Path, The Knight's Terror Radius and red stain is removed, does not see Survivors; their scratch marks; or blood. The Knight does hear footsteps, groans of pain, and Survivors' interactions with the environment.
- The Guard being Summoned can be stunned by a pallet. The Knight is immediately removed from controlling the Guard's Path, and suffers the stun duration.
- When a Guard is Summoned, they can be used to create a Patrol Path. The Knight gains Haste for a few seconds when deploying the Guard.
- The Guard can alternatively be used to perform break actions on pallets, walls and generators.
- A Guard that is patrolling will detect one Survivor inside of the detection radius if they are spotted or if they perform a loud action, regardless of elevation difference.
- The Guard takes a few seconds to spawn at the location where the Survivor was detected.
- A Hunt ends by a Survivor outlasting the duration, coming into contact with the Standard (flag) once it has activated during the Hunt (the standard becomes active when the horn sounds during the Hunt), any Survivor being damaged by the Guard, the Hunted Survivor being damaged by the Knight, or by performing an unhook action.
- The Guard can remove a Hunted Survivor from a locker and put them into the dying state.
- When a Guard damages a Survivor during a Hunt, their location is revealed via Killer Instinct for a few seconds.
- While Hunting a Survivor, the Guard gets distracted when the Survivor vaults or drops a pallet and goes towards that as a priority, instead of single-mindedly following the Hunted Survivor.
- The Guards can also get stuck on objects that are in the direct route to a Survivor instead of going around them.
- The Knight must have a clear space of about 6 meters in front of him in order to be able to Summon a Guard. (Meaning no object, no dropped pallets, no wall in that 6 meters -- give or take a few)
The Knights add-ons are a joke too:
- A green Undetectable and an Oblivious add-on that are reliant on Survivors escaping a Hunt (something you ideally don't want to happen). While also having a short duration, not worth because of the criteria to activate it.
- Guard specific add-ons that don't offer an amazing effect, not worthy of being purple. Scream, Aura near dropped pallets, Haste.
- Exhausted and Hindered 15 seconds for escaping a Hunt. But doesn't specify how much % Hindered.
- Boring browns and yellows to boost the base numbers of the Guard's affect. Patrol speed, Path range, Order time, Hunt duration, Detection range.
- Ultra Rares that don't give the player enough time to do anything with in the majority of situations. An Exposed effect that lasts 8 seconds. And a Bamboozle and Blood Warden effect that isn't the most useful when you consider how Survivors play around the Knight when they're summoning a Guard.
- Hemorrhage and Mangled that only apply for a Guard damaging a Survivor (never gonna happen against good players).
- Blindness for 60 seconds, which is actually pretty decent, but still not worth using when trying to get the best out of The Knight.
- The specific Guard appears back-to-back in a cycle. Actually really useful for specific play styles.
It's just annoying. A Killer that has the potential to be very fun to play as, with room for Survivors to counter in many ways, reduced to this laughing stock.
Ideally, The Knight should work mechanically like this:
- Summons a Guard directly on himself.
- Guards spawn in 0.5 seconds on a Survivor when they're detected.
- When Hunting, the Guard will always take the route that reaches the Survivor the quickest. (This allows Survivors to manipulate their own movement in order to cause a Guard to redirect through a vault location, through a pallet, rotate a certain direction around a tile etc. Providing engaging interactions with both the Guard and Knight player when being chased by both at the same time. While also effectively applying pressure to a hunted Survivor when the Guard is being left to hunt them alone.)
- Majority of add-on effects are activated on Guard deployment or Guard detection. With the number values Increased.
If there's anything I missed, then please correct me. Knight needs to be looked at and fixed asap.
Comments
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Correct me if I'm wrong but to my knowledge the Knight has not received a single nerf. He was buffed and then left alone. Also, most of his counterplay comes from the poorly coded AI of his guards, so there is not a lot of room to play around his power.
I agree, that he is not the best but he also is nowhere near the worst killer in the game. It's sad how addon dependent he is and that his power to this day never once worked without issues.
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he’s kinda crappy and super boring but by no means the worst. That crown is atop a throne of disarmed bear traps
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They never announced nerfs, but you can see from the gameplay from original release to now (post killswitch) that they have heavily crippled what his power can do.
His add-ons suck. He suffers from Pyramid Head syndrome. There's only that specific combo that is ever gonna be useful. And that's the duplicate Guard ones plus bigger detection/longer hunt.
What's your reason for Knight not being the worst? Coz the way I look at it is this: Knight can very rarely get value out of his power. You can zone in certain areas of certain maps to get hits, but his overall power gives him very little to actually utilise. Any Killer that essentially has no power is ultimately going to be the worst. I've had matches where I've read every movement and decision while placing a Guard, got let's say 9 out of 10 hunts triggered and still had no pressure because the Guards are so bad, and you either lock yourself into a chase with a new Survivor without a power, or you chase the Hunted one and still barely have pressure on them because the Guard is so clunky.
Okay, see that argument shares the same angle as mine. Both Killers suffer from their own issues of "Survivors control my power". But I'd say Trapper is miles above Knight in the lower Tiers of comparing Killers. Trappers add-ons are actually quite insanely good, and on top of that, there's always gonna be potential for that Trap that catches someone out and snowballs the whole team. Knight doesn't compare to that, his power has zero snowball potential. The only time I have any pressure as Knight is on specific maps, like Midwich and RPD, and when the matchmaking buffer drops so that I'm playing against Survivors that are average at best. Against good Survivors as Trapper, I know there's a chance I can snowball and beat them. Or at least draw anyway.
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They never announced nerfs, but you can see from the gameplay from original release to now (post killswitch) that they have heavily crippled what his power can do.
Could you be more concrete? Because from my perspective he is in the best spot he has ever been (although he is still not great).
His add-ons suck. He suffers from Pyramid Head syndrome. There's only that specific combo that is ever gonna be useful. And that's the duplicate Guard ones plus bigger detection/longer hunt.
That is wrong. He has a few combinations of addons that are nice. The problem is that Map Of The Realm is pretty much required to allow his guards to even detect survivors, though I read somewhere that another combination of addons is even better (can't remember which one though).
What's your reason for Knight not being the worst?
The existence of Trapper, Myers, Freddy and the likes. I don't have much expertise when it comes to Knight but I know that it is possible to get a lot of value out of his power. He can play a very aggressive 1v4 and there are situations where a survivor will get hit no matter what they do. He also has the ability to pressure survivors away from gens from a distance and he has no drawbacks for it.
Compare that to any of the killers I mentioned. Trapper has pretty much no power on 2/3 of all maps and still isn't all that great on the others, if he doesn't use some of his very strong addons. Myers has the worst time management in the game. He starts as the worst killer and then has to invest time to become a slightly better M1 killer. He is not particularly stealthy because between the dark overall and the white mask he stands out on every map and a 16 metres TR and slightly faster vault might be enough to get a cheeky hit around a z-wall but that's about it. To get his real power he needs to invest even more time and then he becomes a M1 killer with 20% longer lunge and faster vault, that exposes all survivors. That's still not good. You have nothing to deal with pallets, the longer lunge doesn't help when the pallet is still up because the survivor can simply drop it and the faster vault is not enough to get hits around tiles he couldn't hit you around otherwise. Then he goes back to tier 2, permanently loses stalk and has to get his power again. The only addon that really transforms him is Tombstone Piece and that is so broken it should not exist.
Freddy barely has a power. It's not hard to stay awake and his teleport is telegraphed twice to make sure the survivors definitely know that he is using it. Faking the teleport is not that great either because it still puts it on a 10 seconds cooldown. The normal cooldown is 18-45 seconds depending on how many survivors are alseep. That's a huge cooldown and it only works on gens that haven't been finished. This is the worst teleport power in the game and quite frankly one of the worst mobility powers (maybe the worst) in general. When survivors are asleep, he is still not a good killer. Dream snares can get him free hits around many loops. Until you realise, that you can run around them and completely avoid their effect. Try that against Clown and you get hit. Not only that but Clown has a yellow bottle on top of that while Freddy has dream pallets that are locked behind addons and replace the snares. I could make an entire thread (I already did that, if I'm honest) listing all the weaknesses he has but I think you get the idea.
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Least disingenuous Knight main.
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In regards to his current state:
- You can stun his Guards, you could never do that before.
- His Guards are the worst they've ever been, they get stuck on things that they can easily walk around, and are easily manipulated by dropping a pallet.
It's your turn to be specific with the add-ons usefulness now. Coz I've given my reasons and logic as to why they aren't any good. And have also explained the ones that are chosen the most and why that's the case.
When it comes to comparisons to other Killers strength. Myers is not a low-tier Killer (It's laughable that people genuinely and sincerely think he is.). Trapper has similar logic to why he is low tier like Knight is, but his add-ons are superior to most low tier Killers so he is definitely not the weakest. Freddy is definitely down there with Knight, except Freddy has the luxury of map traversal. So even in situations where he cannot use his anti-loop or deception, he can still apply initial pressure to the Survivor, and then regain his power when he hits them. Knights map presence with his Guards is limited. Once they get the Survivor off the gen you have no power until the Hunt or Patrol is ended. So that's already comparatively weaker than Freddy since at least Freddy can regain his control of the power. Freddy has no end game pressure at all, so that's a huge reason why he is down there as the weakest. But Knight also sucks in the end game too. His power sucks at applying pressure across the board, take the gens away and he is never gonna be able to stop the doors or end chases quickly when the match is at that stage. (This is all ignoring perks that can be used, because then it's obviously the perk giving the player the pressure, not the Killer themselves)
I will say this though, slug-orientated gameplay with a gen explosion loadout and add-ons that can compliment this style is what I'm currently spamming to semi-decent effect. Skipping over the time drains of carrying and hooking everyone you down definitely allows Knight to have a smaller increase to his pressure. But this style does not make up for his awful state of play in regards to his power overall.
@Choaron never said I was a Knight main. But I have put a good amount of hours into him to understand why Knight sucks in his current state, in comparison to release-onwards. I loved this Killer on release and subsequently put hours and many matches into him. Back when everyone was abusing the 30min+ stall matches, I was trying to learn his power and actually have engaging and interactive matches as Knight. Obviously this is an opinion post, so whether people whole-heartedly agree, disagree or at the least take my opinion on board and think to themselves if it holds any substance to it, is what this kind post is all about. But I do hope the Devs see this and potentially agree Knight needs saving. Even if we're looking at an add-on pass for now, I'd take it. Anything that allows actual value from using the add-ons. But ideally I want the changes I specified to happen.
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You can stun his Guards, you could never do that before.
You mean the orb stun? That has always been the case because they based his code on what they programmed for Spirit. So the orb is actually referenced as the killer's position.
His Guards are the worst they've ever been, they get stuck on things that they can easily walk around, and are easily manipulated by dropping a pallet.
This has been an issue since his PTB. Nothing new either. They didn't shadow nerf him. They just never fixed him.
About his Guards getting stuck; I have never seen that. Though I have seen the AI do most inexplicable things before. Overall Knight is a buggy mess but he was never nerfed.
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I say he is the new Twins. He is not the worst killer and can be strong but he suffers from clunky gameplay and bugs. You're right tho knight hasnt gotten any nerfs as far as I know. I just find him unfun to play bc of the bad AI and just the overall clunky feel of his kit.
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I agree with you on all points. His bugs and the clunkiness were the reason I never got into playing him. It just felt awful to me, so I stopped.
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He hasn’t been gutted because there hasn’t been any nerfs. Is he buggy? Yes. That should be fixed. He is as buggy as twins use to be.
He’s never been nerfed so I am not sure where you got that from, unless I missed a patch note.
If you know which patch note it was I would like to take a look so I can provide better feedback.
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The Knight hasn't been changed in almost 18 months, and it was a set of buffs on the whole. Where are the nerfs you're talking about?
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Gotta say, I've never been stunned until recently. If that has indeed been a thing since the ptb, I struggle to see how in all my hours and many matches as Knight (since his release) I've only started to get stunned since he came back from being kill switched. I always sent out a Guard at a pallet before it was dropped preemptively and was never once stunned by it.
@kit_mason @MechWarrior3 the nerfs I'm referring to are the coding for his Guards. There is no doubt in my mind that they're extremely less sophisticated now. I refuse to be told that the Guards were always like this. Early on in his gameplay the worst thing I'd see a Guard do is hole themself or go around a wall that wasn't necessary delaying the hunt by 1.5 seconds at most. Ever since the kill switch, he's come back and his Guards are worse than useless, unless the Survivor just straight up panics and essentially lets them hit them. They get stuck at least once a match, they get manipulated every chase. This rarely happened before the killer switch
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I don’t think the developers went out of their wait to make the guards less sophisticated… I don’t believe that for second and then if so they didn’t put it any of the patch notes?
No. Knight has bugs that should’ve been addressed while kill switched for so long but they weren’t. The game in general in my opinion has been more buggy since knight came back. (Not blaming him)
Especially these last few weeks
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knights a solid B tier. Carnifex is definitely the best one, insta break pallet, 24s chase.
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All of my experience with Knight leads me to the conclusion that the Devs did something to Knights coding while he was kill switched to make his guards worse. Whenever stuff like this happens, I always assume they're doing stuff behind the scenes with like a rework or a fix with their power. Clown was 'buggy'/couldn't do things he normally could for a few weeks, all before they announced his rework and then the stuff that was "buggy" suddenly synced perfectly with his new kit and it mads sense. Twins were recently bugged for about a month, and then when they got fixed it was announced they're reworking them (obviously the full rework never went through) but you see my point. I'm hopeful all these issues with Knight are the team fiddling with him behind the scenes.
Knight used to be a powerhouse when chasing a Hunted Survivor, now he's a pushover.
Don't get me wrong, there are play styles that do work and make Knight stronger and more threatening. But comparatively speaking, Knight is the worst on the roster. Down there with Freddy. I always rank Killers comparatively, I find it helps you get the most logical looking Tier List for the Killers.
B Tier is Killers like Plague, Demogorgon, Myers, Clown. Killers that have insanely good snowball potential and can maintain a good amount of pressure, but not as well as the A or S tier Killers can. Knight is definitely not on par with that level of gameplay.
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sounds more like a conspiracy theory….its not rational and it wasn’t in the patch notes. Anywho, that’s my opinion, but I am going by the facts.
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Well, while I love this debate, I need a word with @Xernoton and @_Onyx_
While the debate is good and healthy, there are some things I need to comment on since you brought my boy into the mix.
"Both Killers suffer from their own issues of "Survivors control my power". But I'd say Trapper is miles above Knight in the lower Tiers of comparing Killers. Trappers add-ons are actually quite insanely good, and on top of that, there's always gonna be potential for that Trap that catches someone out and snowballs the whole team. Knight doesn't compare to that, his power has zero snowball potential."
Between the two, Knight is more at the poopy end of the stick. The guards pathing, in my experience, is WAY too easy to manipulate as survivor. It makes me do something other than a gen, but its still not 'threatening' in my head.
Trapper's power can only be undone if they know its there. You always know a guard is there. Trapper just wins this hands down.
"Against good Survivors as Trapper, I know there's a chance I can snowball and beat them. Or at least draw anyway."
This supports my points well. Against good survivors, Knight is kind of a joke. I think I saw someone say Midwich was a great map for knight. Its also great for Trapper, if not his best. But I wouldn't fear Knight on Mid like Trappy boi. If -this- is something you want to debate, please, let me know :)
I'd comment on more of the Trapper bits, but Im at work and can't sadly.
Overall, Trapper is more upper mid tier than bottom. People just have no desire to put time into the… dare I say… best killer in the game? With a few hours in customs to strictly find good spots for the traps, you can literally never have a bad map. I can't think of another killer that can say that, even nurse. But his chances of winning don't drop nearly as much as most killers when facing even a good SWF.
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I'd say Trapper is the best low-tier Killer. The rank logic I go by (that make the most sense) are: S+, S, A, B, C, D. Upper mid is near the top of B or bottom of A, depending on perspective. Compared with each Killer on the roster, you'd go as far as to say he is better than half of them?
(I will note this too, when I do my tier lists, I do it with the Killer's strongest number buff add-ons used, as opposed to base kit. So you wouldn't see Tombstone Myers ranked, but you'd see stalk rate and duration of Tier III, for example.)
It was me that mentioned Midwich, and also RPD, being good for Knight. And yeah you're spot on, both of those maps are showcased much more convincingly by Trapper than a Knight can. I would also add to my point about add-ons, that Trapper has a lot of variety and spice to his loadout, Knight hasn't really got much to shake up his gameplay and strats.
For me, the D-Tier Killers in order of strongest to weakest are:
- Trapper w/Fastening Tools+Trapper Glove
- Legion w/Mischief List+Friendship Bracelet
- Pig w/Last Will+Workshop Grease
- Hag w/Dragonfly Wings+Dried Cicada
- Onryö w/Videotape Copy+Bloody Fingernails
- Good Guy w/Power Drill+Automatic Screwdriver
- Nightmare w/Nancy's Sketch+Nancy's Masterpiece
- Knight w/Call To Arms+Map Of The Realm
Would you say I'm accurate with those Trapper add-ons being his strongest combination of number buffs? Or what would you say is his best number buffs?
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I'll run some matches with your addon choices above. I'm curious! I've used them before but its been so long since I've switched up Trapper. I use Tension Spring and Trapper sack. Spring is personal choice, but there's better choices if one wants to just win win win.
Also.. Thank you for this. This feels like a genuine discussion and not the usual drivel. Thank you, sincerely :)
Using your logic list, I'd put him mid Upper C. Anyone can pick him up and get the idea pretty quick. Feels like that anyway. This puts him at D by default. New player = no skill determined. (This is all assumed ofc.)
With <20 hours, he can be low to mid C. With dedication, He can be anywhere from A-upper C. And I feel this is due to his skill leveling.
Which is to say, survivor game knowledge directly inflates Trapper's skill ceiling. If you can survivor like a boss, Trapper is difficult to outclass imo. Can't think of another killer who scales like this: Maybe Hag.
When I load into a game, I usually decide to go ham. If someone begs or is asking for pity… the first one to do so usually lives. Again… all decisions I can make as trapper can suck the wind right out from a ballooning Survivor team momentum. The swing game he brings is insane.
To close, I'll give feedback after trying your addons again. Its been years since Ive switched his addons lol. I tried the haste coffee grounds but it wasn't enough for me to get anything happening. Thanks for this, not many people give a damn about the OG poster boy. <3
edit: Might have missed questions, apologies if so!; Grammar corrections.
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Yeah Trapper is definitely the 'wildcard' of the Killer roster, for sure. That's what makes him stronger than the other Killers that are universally considered weaker. His matches always have that potential to go from "I'm losing this for sure" to "oh, nevermind, 3 kills." lol
I think something to also consider is what the Killer's power allows them to do consistently that others can't. I think that's why I don't see him higher than D. The sporadic nature of his gameplay makes others that can snowball and maintain the pressure with a tad more consistency rank higher than Trapper. While the ones that struggle to stay on top of pressuring the Survivors and usually feel like a constant struggle will ultimately rank lower.
When it comes to the add-ons I chose for this Tier List, being his best buffs, is that it allows the Trapper to waste minimal time setting up in advance for later chases. While also allowing Trapper to be in control of the mid-chase Trap placement without worrying about losing much distance on the Survivor, if they predict that you'll commit to setting the Trap and leave the tile early. Also, along with those benefits, you also minimise the time that a Survivor has to spot you actively setting the Trap, making it so you could potentially get away with an otherwise obvious Trap and not have it disarmed instantly, or when the Survivors need it disarmed.
No worries :) I always enjoy a good discussion and hearing others arguments against me. Coz sometimes you don't see yourself being wrong, but then one well spoken argument makes you realise "oh, yeah I'm wrong on this" lol it's why I made this post. I genuinely believe Knight is the weakest Killer in DBD atm. But if someone can point out why he isn't and it makes sense, I'll gladly change my mind.
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