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DbD Consultant program
Comments
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It’s a good idea on paper just so long as the devs don’t only rely on these people in the program
But I think most people can agree overall balance has been better recently and I feel we have this to thank for it. Even things like the upcoming Chucky changes feel like something that this program directly affected in a good way
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Some of the streamers make $$$$$$ off of clickbait videos, and are therefore some of the most biased people in the community, because they literally get $$$$$ from this game.
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I would love to know more about this. Seems like a more effective PTB.
Changing this game for the better is why most of us are here. I don't know why this is kept a secret.
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Shirtless Myers and Diamond encrusted thong Trapper when?
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Everyday and expected to work at least 2 hours of overtime? Those working hours sound kind of bad.
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it’s ‚at least 2 hours worktime‘, not overtime? We don’t know the pay but this doesn’t sound too bad??
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Funny enough when I heard about this and saw that charm, you were the first person I thought about 😅
Fridge is gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiiissed 🤣
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Hey folks, I see a lot of questions and confusion so I'm going to do my best to clear up as many as I can.
About the program itself:
- This program is not new, it has existed since shortly after the game's release. Previously consultants were not able to confirm they were part of the group without breaching their NDA. We have recently restructured the program and allowed members to say that they are members.
- Consultants are asked for opinions on upcoming changes and invited to closed playtests where they can give feedback.
- While the program itself is now public info, the details of what they are playtesting and/or giving feedback on are not. Please do not ask them what's going on in there, they cannot tell you.
- There is no public list of all consultants, nor do we plan to share one. We leave it up to each person to decide if they are comfortable disclosing it as it could attract unwanted attention and/or scrutiny.
About consultants and requirements:
- Consultants do not need to be content creators. While some are, others are not.
- There is no application process. We select and invite people who would be a good fit for the program and fill the needs we have in terms of experience with specific aspects of the game.
- Being selected as a consultant is not simply a reward for being a die-hard fan. Consultants are contractors who are paid and have certain responsibilities.
- Consultants have varying experience (e.g. Killers they've mastered), preferences, playstyles, and skill levels.
About the consultants role & responsibilities:
- Consultants must participate in closed playtests. Inactive consultants would be removed from the program and replaced with someone who is able to participate.
- It is a consultant's duty to give feedback on upcoming changes that are presented to them.
- Consultant feedback is used to help make informed decisions, but it is not the sole deciding factor. We need to keep in mind that consultants are highly experienced players and that their impressions may not always align with the wider community (though they often do).
- Consultants do not come up with balance changes and are not responsible for how things turn out. It falls on us to decide what needs to be acted upon. (Please do not harass consultants if there is a change you do not like.)
- Consultants are not QA - it is not their responsibility to test the game and find bugs.
Qualities we look for in consultants (among other traits):
- Trustworthy, as they are given information early
- A wide range of experience within the game (and ideally experts in certain areas)
- Able to provide constructive feedback
- Able to maintain a civil discussion with people who have differing opinions
- Able to set aside biases when giving feedback or acknowledge that their biases may be influencing their opinions
Most importantly, none of this means that your feedback doesn't matter. This program helps us gather feedback for changes early on in development and make adjustments before they are revealed. Once they hit the PTB, feedback from the wider community is just as important.
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LOL I am so sick I completely misread that. Yeah that actually sounds alright haha.
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thank you so much for these infos!
It’s very much reassuring! and I agree -even if I asked for one- a list is not needed and might be actually counterproductive. I was just assuming only content creators and that would be very biased and one-dimensional.
Able to maintain a civil discussion with people who have differing opinions
I guess I know why I am not considered 🤪
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we should start a petition to get Fridge into the program!
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Alright, this is all looking good for Tippy to join the program! I think I would make a great mem…wait
Able to maintain a civil discussion with people who have differing opinions
OH NO!
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Can any of us here actually do that? 🤣😂
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Thank you for the information.
One question, more on the technical side - do Consultants have access to a Beta-Version of DBD (aka in Steam another DBD-game where changes are tested) or do they have to access a Beta via the existing DBD-game in Steam (like regular players do when they access the PTB).
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Looks like they learned from the Twins debacle.
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Yeah same, it's the one feature I'm not looking forward to.
It looks like this program has been around for awhile anyway, so I'm hopeful they've gathered a variety of voices in that time. Chances are good since the player base can't seem to decide if the devs are killer or survivor sided on a regular basis 😂 hopefully it's the same on the skilled side of the aisle. As a pretty average player, I'll never be able to compete at high levels and don't aspire to. But I'd like to continue enjoying the game as much as the more skilled folk do.
It's also just occurred to me that this program is likely the source of leaks over the years, which is disappointing. Imagine being given an opportunity like that and breaking trust.
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Even the old Fog Wisperer, when watching the delivery and trying to complain about the biased balance of GoJ, Badam, the new Lampkin Lane, or when the Survivor decides to do a Buckle Up combo, there are many occasions when he slurs his words and cannot clearly say anything, so it is difficult for someone with any kind of support from BhVR to say anything about the balancing.
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Yeah, I don't mind the program existing but I do feel bad for the Fog Whipersers who want to make a difference and then found out that BHVR already has a group for feedback. Like for years now Otz has been saying he has been msg devs about changes and feedback, the devs according to him have an FW channel in the discord server for this and now they found out all this. I bet few of them feel like all these years their feedback meant nothing at all. Honest I think FW are unoptimized and purely treated. I don't blame Spookyloopz and others for leaving a program where they don't feel like they are under valued. I have thought for a long time now that FWs should just leave the program to make a statement. I know I wouldn't want to be just some mouthpiece or PR person for this game.
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Yeah, it's nothing new but doesn't mean I have to like it or think it's dumb. I also think all those other things are really dumb as well. All it does is create the feeling of being left out of something. That crow charm could be something everyone could have since it has nothing to do with the program. At least the FW charm is their logo and that makes sense.
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Fog Whisperer’s aren’t for balance purposes, they are there to promote the game be a positive representation of the community. They get free access to in game goodies and can give them away as gifts to their viewers encourage engagement.
We also don’t know if any of those Fog Whisperer’s are Consultants either. I don’t think some content creators like Otz would even want to have this be visible considering how much blame he received when STBFL got nerfed.
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to be fair, these people then probably have just misunderstood the whole point of the Fog Whisperer program and yeah if they expected to have more impact on balance changes etc and only joined the FW program for that they really should leave the FW.
But.. are we sure Otz isn’t part of the Consultant program? He wasn’t allowed to say anything up until now. But he is generally considered to give constructive feedback I think and should at least be on the devs radar for this program as well.
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so this tells me that after years of having someone who is hard of hearing as a consultant, who admits to advocate a lot for accessibility, all that happened is the visual terror radious and absolutely nothing else.
no visual cues for footsteps, generator sounds or any of the sort ever implemented or mentioned to be in the plans.
yeah… people are really overblowing what they have the power to do or affect.
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Do you have console players in the consultant program or is it pc player only?
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Exactly what this game needs, to become more sweaty and unfun. Bad idea.
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To be very clear, consultants can and do share thoughts on whether or not future changes would be healthy for the game or encourage unfun gameplay. This program in no way is designed to make the game more sweaty or competitive. We receive a wide variety of feedback from it, from balance to fun to how something feels and beyond.
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That's good to hear console players wouldn't be turned away from the program. Hopefully if you do have any console players in the program you have ones from each platform. If there aren't any console players currently in the program hopefully now that it's public that this program exists you'll add some console players so their feedback/gameplay experience is included.
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You telling me nothing I already know. I always knew FW program was purely a PR program. That's not really my point here. Im just saying I can fully understand why a few FWs are upset about the whole consultant thing and I sympathize with them. Take spookzloop, he truly cares about the game and he wants to help out so badly but making the whole consultants thing public he felt was a slap in the face to the fog whisper program.
I feel Otz if was a part of it he would tell us. Hens and Tofu both have come out saying their apart of the program and I believe Lilith also have came out last night as one as well. I still think it was a bad move of the devs part for even come out publicly about this program. It has caused more harm than good imo putting this info out there. I think it would been better if the consultant program and ppl apart of it stayed unknown.
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I like this last part:
Most importantly, none of this means that your feedback doesn't matter. This program helps us gather feedback for changes early on in development and make adjustments before they are revealed. Once they hit the PTB, feedback from the wider community is just as important.
Could it ever be possible for developers to go though some of the changes ever made and say something about how we helped?
Its mostly because I see a lot of people messaging that they don't feel listened too, but I understand its a silent understanding relationship we have here with feedback. But I think all people have an innate need to be acknowledged.3 -
I'd be honoured, but I'm fairly certain there's other forum users who'd be vastly better consultants than me. I'm very 'slightly-above-average' when it comes to DbD, so I'm not exactly a good representative of highly skilled players, or lesser skilled players.
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So glad this is being explained. I truly believe this does not devalue fog whispers and the community's feedback when we are given our turn to play test on the ptb. That's why we have this forum to begin with.
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Personally I'm not one for someone's work to not be acknowledged. I feel like for the people who worked behind the scenes are now at least getting recognition for their passion and work. For some people to get backlash for it, I think we need to look at ourselves a bit more as a community to be grateful and appreciate the time and effort they put in so that we can fully experience it on the ptb.
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So this is why we got terrible perk reworks, terrible new perks, terrible new killers (Skull Merchant), terrible killer reworks like the Twins, and terrible maps? I'm with Spookyloopz and Hens.
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And yet, isn't the average player just as, or more, important than the extremes of the spectrum?
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Making it public is new.
It's an old program and the only feedback was : "it's useless".
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I think its the opposite, this is not a good thing.
The problem is that a lot of these top content creators are heavily biased toward survviors. And that isn't a "tin foil hat conspiracy omg survivor main" thing. It makes a lot of sense. If you just go to youtube and you type dbd survivor RIGHT NOW. The first 5 videos you see are:
- "Buckle up is getting nerfed" and then 20 minutes of someone using Buckle up FTP to bully unsuspecting killers
- "I created the most evil survivor build" that is a normal compilation of that content creator bullying unsuspecting killers
- Casual, "short" 2 hour otz video
- Another classic bully compilation
- "This survivor build RUIN killers" yet another, lets bully killers compilation.
Most survivor "content" is them bullying bad killer players. It's why that whole conspiracy around "smurfing" came about. I'm not commenting on the smurfing just explaining it. But the point is, survivor content is all about bullying bad killers and killer content is usually tutorials, videos about the new killer, challenge videos that they probably threw 20 games trying to get footage for it, or going AGAINST these bullies.
On the killer side of it, just type in "DBD Killer" into youtube and what do you see?
- A "What is this cool thing about every killer" video tier list type thing
- Challenges video like trying to get 5 stacks of pentimento.
- Overview of the unknown's power/perks/addons
- Video going against a "TOXIC BULLY SQUAD"
- Video from a less experienced player showcasing dredge play (evidenced by the fact that the perks they are running are bad, and they don't even have their perks maxed out, showing they likely don't have all the good perks yet)
So, the point is, content creators on both sides of the main spectrum have an incentive for survivors to be, quite frankly, "overpowered". Because their content is either about using that overpoweredness on killers, or by killers beating these survivors despite them being "overpowered".
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too modest, my friend.
Players of all skill levels are needed, not only the extremes! And you are definitely one of the few on here to be and stay reasonable and capable of constructive feedback.
also it’s cruel to withhold this charm from you.1 -
The discussions that typically go on here would have me believe otherwise, but I appreciate the vote of confidence!
Still, though, Peanits clearly said that players are approached by BHVR, not the other way round.
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Thank you for taking the time to share this information.
Seeing this makes me feel like I have something else to strive for, so I can continue to help improve DBD. While I do wish there was some sort of application process, I realize that'd be rather hard with how many people there are.
I'm very passionate about discussing every single aspect of DBD when it comes to how it affects both sides, and all skill levels. I literally spend hours testing/attempting to reproduce bugs, and write detailed feedback on current issues, or changes that I think would be good for the game - FOR FUN. I also constantly encourage people to share constructive feedback for things they care about on the forums.
For now I'll continue to provide feedback and just keep my fingers crossed I might be considered in the future. I know this program coming public seems rather controversial right now, but after finding out evel headed folks like Tofu and Hens are part of this, I have a lot of faith in the feedback they share.
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This (and typically all social media platforms) kinda create echo chambers that doesn’t invalidate opinion from others just like that. I would argue that’s a good reason why you are a good choice
but yeah, no application process and BHVR approaches the consultants… doesn’t mean we couldn’t give them a hint0 -
- I'd rather have bad balancing from an "expert developer", than bad balancing from a sweaty gamer who plays DBD all day. These people can test new things, but I prefer them to stay out of important decisions. 99% of people just want to have fun with DBD (as "chaos shuffle" proved)...is that that hard to understand?
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Consultants do not need to be content creators. While some are, others are not.
There is no application process. We select and invite people who would be a good fit for the program and fill the needs we have in terms of experience with specific aspects of the game.
If there is no application process how do you actually seek out people who are not content creators in some right? I'd imagine most of the consultants either had to be referred to you by an already existing content creator or someone with knowledge of the program.
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Your game has progressively become more sweaty. You nerf fun things constantly. Who are you listening to cause that then?
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that is easy to answer… someone on some social media who they see being the type of person they would like to invite to this. so they do.
but without knowing who is in, we can't know. and they won't give out that information, so no real point in asking.
for all we know it could be "nepotism city", but it can also be perfectly fine and the best it could possibly be.
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Referrals can definitely help, but we also take notes when we see players who regularly give constructive feedback and keep their discussions civil. Many of the earliest members were chosen this way, most of which have never streamed.
There is no hard-set rule. As long as someone shows that they have the expertise we need, they could be invited (when spaces are available).
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I'm worried about what the consultants define as "encourage unfun gameplay". There are so many people on these forums, that label and demonize pretty much every killer strategy (i.e. camping, tunneling, slugging) as "unfun gameplay" for survivors.
…..but when these same people are asked about what things survivors do, that counts as "unfun gameplay" for the killer, we get told that pretty much everything survivors can do is fine and acceptable. We even have people defending bully squads, because "at least they aren't doing generators". You can even see this in the way certain game terms are defined, where killer strategies like camping and tunneling are super easy for killers to achieve in any game….. but gen rushing is a hyper specific scenario that requires certain perks and certain addons.
I don't understand how BHVR finds enough people, that are truly arguing on behalf of the killer role, that also aren't over exaggerating the game problems. I've been on these forums for a while, and it seems like the majority of the people truly arguing for the killer role, go completely overboard and get permanently banned.
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It was quite a bad move to make this public. There is literally no benefit for bhvr, nor for any of their consultants to do so. There will only be more questioning on the development of this game. Like "if they have suitable consultants, why did they do this and that?"Or "Who decides what a suitable consultant is in the first place?" I cant see any positive thing in communicating such a role.
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I believe all of the Fog Whisperers are on Steam, and consolers cannot even apply for that program. Are there any plans to open that up to represent all platforms?
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