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Trapper needs to have half of his addons basekit just to be C tier killer
And it's not a joke or bait. I don't understand how Trapper fits in current game, because he insanely outdated killer. Community asking for Freddy buff for now, but i think Trapper needs help in first place. Like i already said in other topic: Freddy has antiloop (yeah, weak, but not completely useless), some mobility and kind of stealth. Trapper has power, which requires to waste half of the match (in best case scenario) just to have it and it's still laughably easy to cancel it.
In reality where even strong killer with good antiloop and mobility will have 5 minutes long matches if he didn't bring at least 2 slowdowns, you want Trapper to be like that:
1. Go across WHOLE map and collect his traps along the way put them everywhere across (part) of the map. If you don't waste at least 2 minutes on it in the beginning of the match – congrats, you are m1 killer without ANY power.
2. If your power is canceled, you should go back to reinstall/replace your traps and waste ridiculous amount of time on it AGAIN.
3. While survivor almost didn't waste any time on it and get 0 punishment / downside for canceling already very bad power. How you need 12 seconds to seal Demo's portal just to get rid of his mobility and almost x3,5 less time to get rid of Trapper's power completely? AT LEAST Bloody Coil needs to basekit from day 1 of this game.
4. His "antiloop" is still worst in the game. While chasing survivor putting trap does literally nothing, because of how much time you need to place it. Survivor not only manages to reach next loop, but also skip it to second one, because of how much distance he gets for me simply trying use my power. Yeah, haste slightly helps with it, but it's still way worse than any other "deny loop" power.
5. Trapper has some chances before 3-gen "solution" (solution to 1% of matches, wow, so popular and definately not only SM problem, sure), because defend part of the map was always his main strategy. Now even this strategy, which made him at some degree playable is gone – every semi-decent swf will force you to reach 8 staks pretty quickly.
6. He is the only killer whose power can harm himself. (In some degree PTB Vecna, Nemi and Cenobite too, but not that much).
Idk how for you, guys, but it's insane for me, that killer like this still exists in this game. I'm sure he needs complete rework, because even if he will have half of his BEST addons basekit, he still will be very average killer. And every time i see some streamer won with him, it's only because of basement or he going against soloq which step on the same trap thrice in a row.
Sure, you still can have some good game on him against very mediocre survivors.
Sure, he is strong from basement defend.
Sure, excel spreadsheet says that his killrate is fine.
But i refuse to understand how BHVR allows his face of the game to be worst killer in the game for almost 8 years.
Comments
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I personally do think Freddy is the worst killer but Trapper is literally number two. 2 extremely outdated killers, the add on and base changes to trapper were meh and didn’t really feel impactful to how he’s played. This is why I think killers should have base corrupt. Trapper would feel 100x better if you could actually set up before you know players are doing gens, makes it feel kinda pointless to go around picking and placing traps without corrupt. They should start with letting him carry all of his traps at the start of the match.
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Can you explain why you think that Freddy is worse than Trapper?
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Number 1 starts off with nothing in the beginning of a match, Power has no effect in chase with awake survivors or asleep survivors anti loop has no effect (very bad barely notices hinder) blood pools, fake pallets, bad vs competent survivors teleport horrible goes on extreme cooldown, add ons HORRIBLE, has the worst iri add ons in dbd, he’s the definition of a noob stomping killer. At least trapper has actual add ons that can help him and feel like it’s making a difference. To see Freddy go from his 2020 self - really fun actually had good add ons very strong to now is a joke within himself.
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You're not wrong... I have a feeling BHVR won't budge on him, as Trapper is meant to be like an introductory character that is pretty basic... but as much as I love him (hes in my top 5 most fun killers), it's ridiculous how far behind he is.
Given free reign to buff him as I please: -
- Trapper Bag basekit (+1 start trap, +1 carry capacity).
- Grab a trap out of a locker (45s cooldown, furthest unarmed trap despawns/furthest trap despawns if all traps armed).
- Partial Bloody Coil basekit (Hard skillcheck anywhere from 7-10 O'clock (overcharge) when disarming the trap, failure injures the survivor). Already injured survivors are deep wounded.
- Bloody Coil now always injuries, and applies broken for 30s if skillcheck failed.
- Trap self escape reduced to 3 attempts (probability of escape increased to 30%, but attempts take nearly twice as long at 3s).
- Rescue time from trap increased by 66% (2.5s)
- Getting caught in his own trap while carrying a survivor causes the survivor to drop into the dying state (usual wiggle progress) instead of being dropped standing. Trapper take 4 seconds to free himself from the trap (2.5s normally I think).
All of this makes his traps more consistently dangerous and mistakes from survivors are far more potent. If he interrupts a survivor trying to disarm a trap, he can potential get an instant down. All of this makes his traps something not to mess with lightly, and much easier for him to get value out of. On top of that survivors are generally caught for longer, and his traps aren't so dangerous to himself.
With all these buffs, the only nerf I would consider is:
- If another armed trap is within 10m of a trap, the difficulty of the skillcheck is reduced to a medium difficulty skillcheck (Decisive Strike level).
This is to make basement Trapper slightly less potent than roaming Trapper, but is still a buff to him compared to now regardless.
Thing is even with all that... he'd still likely struggle xD
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Number 1 starts off with nothing in the beginning of a match
Same with Trapper? But Trapper needs to go and collect his power, place it, while Freddy can go and start chases as m1 killer from the start. Mayers and Trapper are still worse in terms of start, can't agree here.
Blood pools are weak, but not useless. Good placement will give you a hit. Not on every loop, of course, but it's far from useless.
And teleports are still map mobility. No doubt they are bad, but it's definately better than m1 Trapper.
Addon wise – yeah, i agree. Trapper wins here, Freddy addons are horrible.1 -
Don't like skillcheck part, because it will punish bad players and do nothing against good. Just Bloody Coil basekit, no need to reinvent the wheel here.
Overall suggestions are not bad, but, i mean, he will be C tier with it? I don't see him higher than B tier EVEN if all his addons from Rare to Ultra Rare will be basekit. That's why i think he should have slight rework. Same logic with traps, same basic mechanics, which easy to pick up as new player, but completely new approach to the gameplay. Killer can't spend 2 buisness days just to have power in current dbd.0 -
Yeah... his problem is his power is fundamentally incompatible with DBD. DBD is now a game where map traversal and effective immediate anti loop rules the roost... and Trapper doesn't have either. I can't really think of a rework that would address this problem and keep Trapper who he is.
Is a fair point about the skillchecks being tougher on newer players, and doesnt really hinder experienced players....
My only concern with Bloody Coil being truly basekit is it basically makes basement Trapper completely uncounterable... if someone ends up in basement it becomes literally impossible to get them out. Basement is the one place where Trapper truly comes online... it is very difficult to outplay a basement Trapper... and while I'd love to see him buffed, it's an elephant in the room we can't ignore.
Kinda open to ideas to make it harder to follow after him undoing his traps...
Maybe allow Trapper to spend an extra 1s setting a trap to booby trap it, where if it gets disarmed it injures... Bloody Coil simply applies this effect to all traps.... again I'd consider the 10m rule for this effect where you can't booby trap multiple traps within 10m of each other?
Edt: The more I think about it, the more I like this idea overall... because its possible, survivors can't just freely disarm any trap they come across, as it may cost a health state... and uncertainty is a nice thing to have in DBD.... otherwise noone ever disarm a trap.
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I'm all in to nerf basement Trapper in exchange for making him x10 times stronger in other aspects, completely agree.
I think great solution will be just to allow him put no more than 1 trap in 10 meters radius, when survivor is on hook on a basement. And if Trapper already has several traps near the basement, after hooking survivor, they will disappear and back into Trapper's hands. Similiar to SM drones, but only for basement hooks.1 -
That's actually pretty decent just a simple radius around hooks that can't be trapped.
If Trappers hand limit can be temporarily exceeded when he hooks someone within a minefield of traps, not really a big deal given the effort it would take to set it up.
That would justify some serious buffs elsewhere. Of concerned of misuse, there is the locker buff that resolves too.
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The only argument against Trapper Sack basekit I heard was "Trapper will be too strong in basement". So I think with this change we can give him all his traps in hands easily. It already will partly solve first point of my post at least.
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Every buff that Trapper recieve is just a punch in the face on solo q players
It doesn't matter how much they buff Trapper, if you have a teammate to tell you where are the traps, it's impossible to buff trapper
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Personally, I would be happy if devs could add an addon to the base kit that injures survivors who disarm Trapper traps. The current addon would be replaced with an effect that makes survivors exhausted when they disarm Trapper traps.
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I wouldn't say he needs so much buffs.
I am making an experiment right now and I play every killer 3 matches to literally choose my next p100 killer.
I played a few killers already and trapper got me the best results so far.
my 3 games on trapper went smooth:
1st was 4k on 5 gens,
2nd was 4k on 4 gens
3rd was 3k on 5 gen (i gave a hatch to unlucky ace).0 -
It's an interesting discussion point, cause I learned recently there is up to a 700 point MMR swing per killer from your true MMR.
I play a lot of different killers regularly, and the ones I've played more obviously make up the bulk of my MMR score, I tend to find I have to be much tighter and focused on those killers to put in a good performance. I've played a lot of Trapper, Pig, Artist and Myers, and on all of them if I make a mistake or get juiced on a chase, I'm probably losing the match. (I also have a thing for non-meta stuff).
If I then play a less played killer, such as Wraith, Freddy, Demogorgon, etc, suddenly I can be quite imprecise and get away with a lot. These matches feel a lot more like when I first started playing the above killers, and in Freddy's case, cause I was levelling him for his bloody cosmetics he's now also hit the tier where suddenly its getting quite hard to play him. Wraith as well you win a lot at low levels, I could feel him getting harder and harder every game quite quickly.
Typically speaking I'd say you need to take a killer to tier 5 or so to start getting solid matches on that killer that really show you how they play... I love all the above killers... but now I'm getting to 5 prestige or so, that's when you really start to see the weaknesses of a killer.
Not that I'm denying your experience, but as someone who loves playing Trapper win or lose... he's great against new players, but he's a different animal entirely when you start playing against ever increasingly skilled players... 😁
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I do have some experience with 7.5k hours playtime :)
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Not doubting you man, when you said "next p100" I knew you were far more experienced than me, I wouldnt dare claim to know more...
Just with you saying you prestige 100 characters as a goal, I was theorising that you may not have as much experience playing a variety of killers.
So my point was merely your killer MMR for Trapper might be comparatively quite low compared to your skill, which you've built on other killers (if you haven't prestiged him a few times at least). Just an alternative explanation why those 3 games may have went particularly well 😁
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Because you are making mistake on how you take info on him of how strong he is.
I'm old trapper main and i don't play him for 3 rounds only, like you did.
Its always either your surv's are randoms with no voice chat and they don't know where you traps are, that basically means that if you set trap somewhere and they don't know, they will RANDOMLY step in and you got free hook. So that means its all on random + on how you set up your traps.
But if you play vs SWF, all your traps are done, you will almost never catch anyone with them.
Also there is TONS of maps that has little or NO grass at all, so your traps are visible and useless.
Also there is very bad random on hook spawn and traps spawn, which CAN result in situation that you waste 1-2 minutes just to set traps, meanwhile 3-4 gens will be done before you even get hook.
Thats not all, but thats enough.
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Oh no, my killers are p13 (as the unlucky number, for memes), trapper is p25 and i played him a lot.
He has great power to snowball and if you use good addons on him, he is unstoppable.
And if you get basement that's most of the time indication of your win.
But on the other hand, I agree - if i get people that follow me around, destroying my traps then it's drastically harder to win.
You need a lot of experience to be a good trapper. I wouldn't buff him drastically because this could cause him to be a killing machine.
Just little QoL changes could be implemented:
- add trapper sack basekit, but let trapper be able to pick up the traps and after he uses most of them we could block the maximum carried traps to 2 or 3
- increase time of speed buff after placing a trap by 2 more seconds
- increase disarm time
- slightly decrease trap placing time
- maybe darken the traps a little bit?
- Iri stone basekit, but make it 90 seconds
With those changes he would be really strong I think.
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My changes are here:
They help him quite a bit imo, ofc they aren't really groundbreaking, but I think that these should be added.
Another thing that is not in the post, is that traps should either spawn in very frequented areas or can be retrieved from lockers.
Also all "Jaws" add-ons are next to useless.
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You know the guy who said that playing Skull Merchant is like playing chess? He talked about a wrong killer for that.
Playing Trapper is very like chess.
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As i said above – skillchecks are bad design, when it comes to killer power. I almost never will get injury from disarming trap, but my friend with 400 hours will be injured literally every time. I don't know why some people so obsessed with adding another level of complexity to things that already working well.
Same with collecting traps, no need to reinvent the wheel. No other killer should go and collect his power across the map, it's outdated as hell. Give him all his traps in hand, solve the only issue it will cause (basement) and let's not create all these awful rudiment mechanics as locker pick up or +1 trap in hand every year.
We not trying to buff Nurse, we trying to buff by far worst killer in the game, no need in excessive caution, because even with most insane buffs he will be B tier on a good day on a good map with grass.0
